Georgia priest faces excommunication (supports women priests)

[IndianaGreen]

Georgia priest faces excommunication

The Rev. Roy Bourgeois was at Kentucky ceremony to ordain female priest

Associated Press

Friday, November 14, 2008

VATICAN CITY — A Roman Catholic priest faces excommunication for attending a ceremony to ordain a woman in the United States, a Vatican official said Friday.

The Rev. Roy Bourgeois of Columbus, Ga., joined a June ceremony in Lexington, Ky., to ordain Janice Sevre-Duszynska, a member of a group called Roman Catholic Womenpriests.

His excommunication would likely be automatic, requiring no further action from the Holy See, said the chief Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

Bourgeois told The New York Times, however, that he recently received a letter from the Vatican’s doctrinal watchdog, the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, offering him a chance to recant within 30 days to avoid excommunication, the newspaper reported Friday.

Lombardi said he did not know of such a letter. The Times said Bourgeois informed the Vatican he would not repent.

Recent popes have said the Roman Catholic Church cannot ordain women because Christ chose only males as apostles. Excommunication is the most severe penalty under church law, cutting off a Catholic from receiving or administering sacraments.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/11/14/georgia_priest_excommunication.html

On edit, here is the website for women priests:

Roman Catholic Womenpriests (RCWP) is an international initiative within the Roman Catholic Church. The mission of Roman Catholic Womenpriests North America is to spiritually prepare, ordain, and support women and men from all states of life, who are theologically qualified, who are committed to an inclusive model of Church, and who are called by the Holy Spirit and their communities to minister within the Roman Catholic Church.

History

The Roman Catholic Womenpriests movement is an initiative within the Church that began with the ordination of seven women on the Danube River in 2002. Reclaiming our ancient spiritual heritage, womenpriests are shaping a more inclusive, Christ-centered Church of equals in the twenty-first century. Women bishops ordained in full apostolic succession continue to carry on the work of ordaining others in the Roman Catholic Church. We advocate a new model of priestly ministry united with the people with whom we serve. We are rooted in a response to Jesus who called women and men to be disciples and equals living the Gospel.

http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/

[peruban]

1. I have mixed feeling about this.

As a Catholic am taught to believe that the roles of men and women are different. Sure a man can raise a child but he can never know what it's like to give birth or experience the prejudice of misogyny.

I don't believe that Jesus was sexist, it is said that Mary Magdaline was his favorite disciple, that he revealed truths to her that he taught no one else. The scriptures go on to say that would including kiss her on the mouth (this is mentioned in one of the non-canonical, or "banned", books of the bible). Even Judas chose to kiss on the cheek (not the mouth) as a sign of betrayal.

Enter the priesthood. A church so ancient that Roman emperors (beginning with Nero?) sought to abolish them. Since only men held public office, owned land, and were privileged to partake in government it's only natural that the men in power thought themselves the only ones fit to rule or administrate. So, in accordance with tradition, Saint Peter was declared the representative of Jesus and it's been men all the way. Women were relegated to nuns, or enforcers and educators. The council of Nicene was conducted with more rioting than a Japanese legislature. No offense to my Japanese brothers but I heard a while back that a member brought a katana with him with the intention of assaulting one of his rivals. Neat, huh?

It was the Romans (specifically emperor Constantine because of his mother's conversion) who legitimized and imposed restrictions on Christianity. The misogyny was just a cultural thing, just like it was during suffrage is in our days. But what are going to do? We progressive faithful become elated when the church catches up with the rest of society but we're uncomfortable with change. We like our doctrine and it gives us hope, and happiness but we protect it almost rabidly. That's why I think there were so many Catholic McH8 supporters.

As an example of the "progressiveness" or the church I cite the example of suicide. This was once considered a mortal sin, death to the soul and permanent separation from God and bliss. Thus, these poor souls were denied a Catholic burial. It is still considered a mortal sin, but if the suicide is result of psychological imbalance or other psychosis then it doesn't really count any more than a person who dies of cancer. We can argue about this day and night but the fact remains that suicide culpability is essentially based on whether that person is competent enough to make the decision.

Another example is the acknowledgment of a heliocentric solar system, essentially absolving Galileo.

A final example is when Pope John Paul II announced that the Jewish people were the chosen people and so are worthy of respect.

The church has its place for everyone, not just men but women, too. I feel funny about a female priest, it's kind of like watching Monty Python or Kids in the Hall cross-dressing.

Everybody wants to have true liberty, the kind J.S. Mill wrote about. Everyone wants to be left alone and have the freedom to do as they may but it's double edged sword. To use an overworked quote, "One man's bread is another man's poison".

I applaud the progressive nature of the ordination of a woman into the priesthood. I believe the Anglicans and Episcopal churches are also confronting this inequality.

So, excommunication for Priests, or even laity, is quite serious. Like in the Jewish faith it is akin to be eternally separated God in a cold empty void, or hell - whatever.

I've said this before and I still stand by it, this is not England, church and state are not only a founding notion, but are necessarily kept separate. I am offended by those hate mongers who use my religion as justification for their political prejudices.

Despite all of this, I have a hard time clapping my hands in joy and shake this urge to weep. I felt the same way when Obama won, elation and disbelief. I never thought I would live to the day when the son of an American woman and a Nigeian naional would make it to the presidency. This proves to the rest of the world that "Yes we can!".

The church will eventually adapt with the times, it's the nature of the church, but I think we have a long way to go before we catch up with other belief systems.

Oh, P.S., I heard this from a priest on the "down low" so don't tell anybody this. We all end up in "heaven", that's right. Whether we spend time in hell suffering for our sins, in purgatory burning them off, or whatever. You see, it's a logical contradiction for God to reward good behavior, and to forgive sins while torturing or "blowing the candle out" on any of his creation. They just pump your head full that stuff so that you can live a life with less suffering, after all, has leading an immoral live ever alleviated someone's pain?

That's why I consider myself a Buddhist Catholic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. My uncle is a priest who supports women being ordained

He feels it is long overdue.

[peruban]

4. That's my point exactly.

The Church is E-X-T-R-E-M-L-Y slow (or behind, whichever way you look at it) when it comes to answering to social. ethical, and political changes. Is there any wonder why it took over 300 years to agree on basic Christian doctrine in the first council of Nicea.

I feel all people have the right to chose what they believe in or don't, but forcing political equality on a private organization just doesn't feel right. Don't get me wrong, I believe LGBT's have rights, birth control is imperative for the survival of humanity, and women need to stop being subjugated.

As far as women being ordained by the Catholic church, I just don't think its time has come yet. The Church isn't ready for modernization, it progresses at a snail's pace. It will happen someday, though. And I also think the vow of chastity will be reconsidered eventually. Deacons can marry and have families, why not priests? I probably overstepped my bounds here but opinions are what make us strong, no?

[IndianaGreen]

5. If you had women bishops in the early church, it means they were women priest

Let's not underestimate the pathological fear and loathing of women the Catholic hierarchy has had for centuries. They are nothing but fearful little boys that see women as a threat to their cosa nostra.


This archaeological photograph of a mosaic in the Church of St. Praxedis in Rome shows, in the blue mantle, the Virgin Mary, foremother of women leaders in the Church. On her left is St.Pudentiana and on her right St. Praxedis, both leaders of house churches in early Christian Rome. Episcopa Theodora, "Bishop Theodora " is the bishop of the Church of St. Praxedis in 820 AD.

http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/

[peruban]

6. That's little unfair.

Since you read my post you understand that I'm not condemning the ordination of women as priests, much less minimalizing their importance in theology and doctrine. You must, then, see how I venerate Mary Magdalene as Jesus' favorite disciple. We also hold the Virgin Mary in high regard. I just don't think the world is ready for that kind of equality.

And let's not forget about the abducted child sex-slaves around the world, and don't fool yourself, it happens in the U.S. all the time. Women are still treated as objects, pornography is a prime example.

History has had its sexist injustices, they offend me, and these have simply carried over into the church. I don't agree with everything the Church preaches and I pray for reformation - which has happened in the past. Change will come, probably not from Pope Benedict XVI, but the foundations have already been laid by John Paul II. Perhaps the next pope will see things differently and bring about a modern reformation. Let's hope.

BTW: thanks for the link, I'm bookmarking it and look forward to using as an educational experience.

[backscatter712]

2. self delete