A while back I wasn't what you would call a Gay Marriage advocate...

[WCGreen]

I was all for the Civil Unions, you know, I thought it was a good compromise. Truth. I was more concerned that Gay issues were going to play havoc with the Democratic Party's chance in the 2008 elections.

How I changed my mind.

Over the years, I have had a lot of Gay Friends and none of them ever expressed to me that they were upset because they couldn't get married. I didn't know anyone whose way of life was being threatened by these ballot Initiatives. And, I also felt that private business would take the issue up since they wanted to keep some of the best and brightest workers. These companies then started to offer domestic partnership benefits. After that, the issue, I'm not going to soften my pre Prop 8 opinions to curry favor with DU, to me was settled.

But toward the end of this campaign, seeing that Obama and his chances of winning were climbing faster than Sarah Palin could say You Betcha, I started to take a closer look at the issue.

To make a long story short, after all that unbridled joy in the faces of African Americans when Obama won, I did a complete 180 on the Gay Marriage front.

No American should ever be made to feel inferior to any other American. That's just not the way we are now. There can be no justification, especially now, to deny any person their civil rights.

And then there is the Religious angle. How can anyone call themselves a Christian and condemn citizens of the United State to an inferior place in our so-called equal under the law society.

I got to thinking how Jesus embraced all who came before him. The poor, the desperately ill, the oppressed and even the lepers all were accepted by Jesus. Well, that is if you take a literal interpretation of the bible. I believe these so-called Christians, the most vocal against rights for Gay folks, are the kind of Christians who would have been some of the first to condemn the man. They all love the Old Testament and really only look to Revelations in the New Testament. I'm certain that the Jesus I have come to know would have stood by Homosexuals.

I'm rambling.

Suffice it to say that I would be more than willing to support Gay Marriage here in Ohio. I don't believe these state ballot initiative designed to deny basic civil rights to anyone could withstand a true test before the US Constitution.

That's it. All I can say at this particular juncture in the American experience is that I am sorry I never took the issue as seriously as I should have.

[Eric J in MN]

1. I think you mean "a complete 180" (NT)

NT

[WCGreen]

2. Thanks...

I just slimmed down to 190 and so I guess that was sticking in my head...

[sandnsea]

3. Civil Unions in Alabama would be huge

Oregon has to have domestic partnership because marriage got defined in the Constitution back in 2004.

I understand the sense of betrayal in California, but I still think it'll be tough enough to get civil unions in all 50 states and that is still likely to be the fastest process to equal marriage.

I still say it's a matter of pragmatism and protection.

[cali]

11. it'll be tough enough to get civil unions in all 50 states? Really?

Massachusetts and Connecticut have marriage for gays and lesbians. NJ,CA and several other states already have civil unions. Vermont has had civil unions for almost a decade and is moving toward marriage.

[sandnsea]

20. That's 50 states? Really??

Don't post stupid shit to me.

[nichomachus]

16. It would as huge as the day black folks got their own separate water fountains

Hey -- water is water -- what does it matter where it comes from

[thesquanderer]

18. Water fountains, yes!

Nothing in everything I read made the point to me as unequivocally as your line about separate water fountains. Thank you.

It inspired my own post (where I reference your words) here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4473618

[sandnsea]

21. Oh, it'll be much much much much more difficult

than that. Way more. Oregon didn't pass it. Now California. I'm not saying stop pushing for gay marriage, but civil unions should be pushed at the same time.

[mondo joe]

4. Love your post. Thanks.

I especially appreciate how your own change tied into Obama's victory - our victory.

I don't think I can express how bittersweet the election was for a lot of GLBT people. In the absolute thrill of the election, many GLBT people had this simultaneous tragedy that was so easily overlooked by even our friends.

It's really great to hear that the election win meant a positive transformation on this as well.

[WCGreen]

5. I can only speak for myself...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Sometimes it takes something really big, a huge event,

to get us to see where the truth really lies.

Obama's election did it for you.

It's never too late to learn something new...

K&R

[NanceGreggs]

7. Yes, you're rambling.

You should ramble a lot more often.





Now off to the Greatest Page with ya - you're free to walk or ramble over, as you see fit.

[Karenina]

15. I just so love it when someone GETS THE WHOLE BALL O' YARN!

Knitting time! :kick:

[murielm99]

8. I think that if Jesus was around now,

He would be hanging out with gay people and AIDS patients. He accepted tax collectors, the poor, and lepers, who were the biggest outcasts of that time.

My daughter was in a six year relationship with a woman. I loved her partner. Her mother is still my friend.

Her partner gave in to temptation and cheated on her. When they broke up, my kid was devastated. I think if they had been married, the woman would have thought twice about jeopardizing a committed relationship. Even if she had cheated, perhaps the relationship would have survived, with some counseling, forgiveness and time. Hetero marriages survive many crises and temptations. Some even survive adultery.

If it had ended in divorce anyway, there would have been a better way to divide the property legally. The machinery would have been there to end things more cleanly.

When I mentioned this to my daughter, she cried. I wish I had kept my mouth shut. But this is such a slap in the face, given everything else we are changing. Who the fuck do they think they are? You can't legislate love.

[kster]

9. Agreed, don't blame the Mormons, and stop blaming the blacks, its al about HEALTH CARE

this is all about health care. Society does not have a problem with two men or two women being married, the health care insurance providers have the most to lose, by allowing same sex marriage.

Heres why, if same sex marriage is allowed it won't be long that same sex Friends will "pretend to be married" in order to get health care insurance.


The insurance companies are behind preventing same sex marriage, My two cents, for what it is worth....

K&R

[calimary]

10. Really a nice way of putting it. GREAT essay!

You really boiled it down to its essence - the true bottom line. I was for full marital rights for gays from the beginning, but I couldn't have described the basics of this issue better or more succinctly than you just did here. You truly and utterly ROCK, WCGreen!

NICELY put! A keeper!

:patriot:

[glowing]

12. When I was younger, I didn't get it... I knew that my friends mom's married

in a little ceremony, but at that age, I thought it was just like my parents marriage. In highschool, I was a teenager.. more worried about sports, college, and having some fun.. in college more of the same. When I got out and started having to be a mature adult, I paid attention. AND I realized, duh, that my friends mom's weren't really married (well now they could be unionized-- I used to live in VT). But I realized it wasn't fair. It isn't any of my business.

AND every time I see a so-called republican, I say to them, "aren't you the party that wants govt to stay out of our personal lives?". If they say yes, I ask them why are they petitioning the govt to deny people rights? Burns them up when I have a point.

[SmileyRose]

13. Ryan White is what changed my mind.

I never knew anyone gay when I grew up so I never thought of it at all. In the 80's this little kid, Ryan White got HIV/AIDS from a blood transfusion and the homophobes in the neighborhood burnt his house down, threatened to kill his whole family. When that story hit the news in my neck of the woods I decided right then that the only way to stop shit like that was to fight for gay people to be thought of in the same terms as heteros -- in other words, it's perfectly acceptable and normal and no one even thinks about it one way or the other because it doesn't matter.

I doubt that will happen in my lifetime, but I take every opportunity I have to push toward that.

[philly_bob]

14. I made the same change. It was partially strategic.

The costs and damage caused by a Republican administration were so high that I was unwilling to risk a Democratic loss by advocating a purist position on this issue. By making the apparently meaningless semantic distinction between "civil union" and "marriage," gays got the rights they needed and Dems could win elections.

Now, with the Democratic victory, it seems (a) the risk of Republican victory is much lower and (b) as a much less homophobic younger generation grows up, marriage equality is inevitable.

Now let's talk about some other issues we couldn't talk about for similar strategic reasons. End the War on Drugs. Legalize gambling. Make assisted suicide a legal medical option. Things the right wing will scream about, but who cares?

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Here in Oregon

death with dignity is a choice open to terminal patients. Done deal here. The deal is done in part because folks did not act out of fear of who might not like it, but rather they acted out of a desire to do the right thing. There lies wisdom.
I offer to you that your past assumption that semantical tricks would distract the bigots from being bigots was always an irrational position. It was always a ruse of the bigots, one that many people fall for.
I also say those willing to use human rights as a bargining chip are really running down the wrong path whenever they do so. Unless of course it is their own rights they are negotiating with, not mine.

[philly_bob]

25. Do you think Obama would have won if he'd come out for Gay Marriage? n/t

[KitchenWitch]

19. Great post.

[enigmatic]

22. You're a good person, Chris

:hug:

[justiceischeap]

23. Shhh... don't tell anyone but I'm a lesbian who could care less about getting married

That said, if I were to ever change my mind, I would at least like to have the right.

I thank you for the thought you put into your decision and for realizing that it's a civil rights issue. The more I see the argument about race and sexuality the more I see that the gay community has been kind of lax in explaining that it has nothing to do with sexuality at all but more with the civil rights of all citizens. When I look at some of the signs from yesterday's protests or heard some of the interviews given, I found myself cringing when "love" was the topic. Don't get me wrong, it is about love but ultimately it's about being set aside from the rest of America. As the Justice in California put, "gays are a suspect class," meaning we are the last class in the US that people are ALLOWED to discriminate against. When I talk about discrimination of gays, I always point out the following to folks who don't get it. In our politically correct culture, anytime someone tells a bigoted joke, have you ever noticed if it's about Jews, AA's, Asians the joke is always told in a hushed tone after the joke teller takes a look around the room to make sure no one is in earshot to be offended. That's just not true about gay jokes... hell, the louder the better it seems with no desire to make certain they're not overheard. You can tell by the lack of political correctness on that issue, that people for the most part don't think about the discrimination of gays as much as they should.

Anyway, talk about rambling, I have oh so rambled. Congrats again and thank you for your 180! :)

[madmadmad]

24. wonderful essay- how you felt, and now feel, is more common than you think:

our stories have much in common- i didn't really care about gay marriage either. i figured it would happen one day, but we'd go through years of domestic partnerships and civil unions, but one day the supreme court would decide that separate but equal was inherently unequal in this case as well. but until then, i really didn't care.

here's the sad thing- i'm gay. and i didn't care.

until tuesday, november 4th, 2008, when it all changed. i discovered i cared- i cared a lot.

like you, one of the reasons for my turnaround was the election of barack obama. suddenly things that seemed impossible- things like a black president- became real. i too, saw the joy and triumph on the faces of black america- i couldn't imagine what they were feeling, but i knew that one day i wanted to feel it too. i want to see a gay president elected, with the issue of his gayness not a factor in the race. i want to feel that moment of "we've arrived", that gay people are finally part of the discussion- not as freaks or perverts, but as equals, as fellow americans invested in the future of our country. i want that.

of course the other thing that changed on election day, is that a group of religious zealots got together and repealed one of my rights- a right every other american has, but gays and lesbians are not deemed worthy of. 52% percent of my fellow californians were swayed by their campaign of fear, and suddenly, something i've known all my life, but always hoped wasn't entirely true, was put into bold face black and white and shoved into my face: i was a second class citizen and my rights didn't matter. my people weren't deserving of equal protection under the law. and then i REALLY knew what marginalized minorities like black people, hispanics, jews, etc. have known for a long, long, time. that we don't count and we are not equal, and most hurtful of all, people are willing to go out of their way to let us know. to scapegoat us, and blame us for problems not of our making. to demonize us and disparage us. and if we should want to fight back, we are being uppity, and we should just shut up and be happy with the scraps we have been given. it is not right and it is not fair.

so now i care.

i care because i realize what has been done to me, has been done to others before me, and will be done to other marginalized peoples in the future, and i have a duty to fight because of that. we need to remember that our nation was founded to escape this sort of persecution but somehow that has become irrelevant to many. now that the oppressors are emboldened by a victory over the oppressed, they will press for more and more, until all their goals are met. i can't let that happen- YOU can't let that happen. this isn't just about gay marriage, it's about protecting the rights of a minority against the tyranny of those who would rule them. this is about maintaining the integrity of our constitution and bill of rights and system of government. the people that backed this measure, aren't so much about defining marriage but more about redefining our very system of government. they want to make this the first stop on a road to a government where the bible trumps the constitution, and that is something just too scary for all of us to contemplate. they will not stop with one measure in california, it is just the start. they too have a 50 state strategy. there is no gay agenda, but these people most certainly have an agenda, and it begins with the gays, but certainly doesn't end with them. you could be next.

think about it.