Another gun, another child death....so sad

[Tripper11]

MARYSVILLE, Wash. - The father of a 6-year-old girl who was shot while he was cleaning guns has been jailed for investigation of manslaughter.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_111708WAB_marysville_girl_shot_LJ.1bf807f2f.html

The Snohomish County sheriff's office says the 42-year-old man called 911 at 7:50 p.m. Sunday. The shooting happened at the family's home on the Tulalip Indian Reservation in the 4500 block of 83rd Place NW in Marysville.

=========================

I had heard reports as well that the daughter may have been helping her Dad clean the gun when it went off.
Such a shame....

[LaurenG]

1. Gun cleaning sure kills a lot of people

:(

[NeedleCast]

3. So does being stupid

which I think is far more at fault here than the gun

[fascisthunter]

4. If Only all Humans Could Be Smart

poor, poor guns...

[NeedleCast]

8. The irony of a person who's handle is fascistHUNTER being anti-gun

amuses me.

[depakid]

91. Makes perfect sense to me

[geckosfeet]

7. Stupid and loaded guns don't mix well. I would prefer that we kept them

at safe distances from each other, but I also agree that the second amendment applies to stupid. This is the conundrum that we find ourselves in.

[NeedleCast]

10. Agreed

[surrealAmerican]

38. Perhaps some people are too stupid to be gun owners.

[Recursion]

48. Perhaps some people are too stupid to have kids

[tinymontgomery]

84. Some people are too stupid to have kids

and guns at the same time.

[NeedleCast]

82. That may be true, but then again

maybe some people are to stupid to be allowed to vote...

Purity tests are almost always bad.

[spanone]

83. .

[MountainLaurel]

29. In my hometown area

"I was cleaning my gun" was usually code for an accident that wasn't quite an accident. (You'd be surprised at the number of women who are killed while their abusive spouses are "cleaning their guns," including a couple who were running out of the house screaming for help at the time.)

[LaurenG]

30. My husband says the same thing.

I was raised with guns in the house and my ex was a cop and the current husband is ex military and loves target practice. No one in my family has ever been shot during a cleaning. Rule number one, before cleaning empty the fire arm. :shrug:

[geckosfeet]

2. Cleaning a loaded gun. How,,,, sad. RIP little one. eom

[brentspeak]

5. A similar incident: Baby dies after being shot by hunter

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/November08/17/Fatal_hunting-Taibi-17Nov08.htm

Baby dies after being shot by hunter

LIBERTY – State Police Sunday night charged a 45-year-old Howard Beach man with manslaughter in the second degree in connection with the shooting death of a 16-month-old baby.

Edward Taibi had been hunting in the Town of Bethel when he allegedly fired a shot from his rifle while hunting. The bullet went through the wall of a nearby trailer and hit the child, who died of her injuries at Westchester Medical Center.

Taibi had been hunting on property off Horseshoe Lake Road and fired his rifle, striking a deer. He then fired a second time from about 400 feet from a residence and struck the victim in the upper torso.

After the baby was stabilized at Catskill Regional Medical Center, she was flown to Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, where she later died.

[amdezurik]

6. excuse the hell out of me?

HUNTING in a trailer park? WTF was this moran hunting? Tornadoes?

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. Yes.. because *all* mobile homes are in trailer parks, right?

Right???

[amdezurik]

31. uh, are you a professional ass or amature?

In fact I have lived in a trailer park, a lot of my family have, and yes in MOST cases they ARE in some kind of park like setting, and no they are not terrible places nor do I (unlike you it seems) look down on those who live in them. Got a problem with that? Are you defending the murder of that baby because you have some hair up your ass about mobile homes?

[Ghost in the Machine]

32. Are you too friggin' dense to remember your own words??

amdezurik (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-17-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. excuse the hell out of me?
HUNTING in a trailer park? WTF was this moran hunting? Tornadoes?

YOU are the one who made the assumption that all trailers are in trailer parks....

I look down upon people who live in mobile homes? That's awful goddamned funny, seeing as how I live in one now, and have lived in mobile homes most of my adult life...

I didn't look at your profile to see where you're from, but around here there are *plenty* of mobile homes on big pieces of property. In fact, I have 4 of them on 12.5 acres of land. One of them is less than 100 yards away from me, but you can't see it through the woods. My folks have theirs on almost 4 acres... lots of people around here have them on 5, 10 & 20 acre tacts (or more)... I wouldn't call that "trailer park" by any standard.

The guy shot at a deer 400 feet from a mobile home.... that's over 100 yards away. He might not have even known the home was there. Am I making excuses for him? No! He should have scouted out the area before hand and had a good working knowledge of where homes were in the area. That's just common fucking sense when you go hunting. It's not rocket science. Always, and I do mean ALWAYS, know the lay of the land.

Now... if the guy *saw* the home, *knew* it was there, and fired in that direction, he should be charged with more than second degree manslaughter... he should be charged with murder.

You need to wise up a little... and quit engaging in hyperbole and ad hominen.. it's very unbecoming and just makes you look like an ignorant fucking fool...

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. I worry about that happening around here. Someone hunting back behind the

park and accidentally hitting someone here.

[Pavulon]

53. Accidentally means on purpose

I have been hunting since childhood and served in the NG. It is difficult to accidentally shoot someone with a rifle without gross negligence or intent.

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. Yeah, there's been plenty of people around who either a) were

drinking while hunting or b) don't care about rules. I've heard people brag about pulling over to the side of the road to get a deer grazing in a field, even though it's really too close to a residential area.

And a few years back I was walking my kids in the stroller, doing laps around the trailer park which seems to have been built across a highway for deer. I get down to the back part of the park, which is tucked away into the woods, and right there next to the last trailer is a truck and leaning up against the truck is a rifle. Nobody in sight, just a rifle hanging around. But it just happened to be next to the most popular deer feeding area in the trailer park, so I figured there was a reason for it being there. A guy came out of the trailer and said it wasn't loaded, but who knows if he was telling the truth. All I know is he was lucky the little kids across the way hadn't found it and taken off with it.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Baby was in the way of the bullet. Poor hunter.

[msongs]

9. another martyr for second amendment rights nt

[krispos42]

13. Do you post similar statements about other rights?

I'm curious about this kind of post. When an accused criminal walks free because the police bungled a search warrant or performed an illegal search, do you also think "Another martyr for 4th Amendment rights"?

[Deep13]

11. That's unfortunate.

:-(

Assuming the father is telling the truth, it was an intensely stupid thing to do. There are many descriptions out there about proper firearm cleaning. They all start with the same step. Make sure the gun is unloaded and visually inspect the chamber to be sure there is nothing in it. This man was not in the habit of safety. He probably disregarded traffic rules too. A habit of safety is something one develops over time until the safe thing to do is second nature.

I don't know the details here, but I can guess. One basic habit of safety is alcohol + handling firearms = :-(

[sharp_stick]

12. If there ever is a gun registry

I think it should be linked to or based on an IQ test, then again so should the ability to have a child this asshole would have failed both tests.

The sheer idiocy of people never ceases to amaze me.

How do people as dumb as this guy actually survive to adulthood? Perhaps we work too much as a community, this putz should have been weeded out long ago by natural selection.

[greguganus]

21. Then we should have an IQ test for voting.

All those people that foolishly voted for * helped kill thousands of people.

[sharp_stick]

28. I'm all for it

probably not practical or legal in any case though.

[geckosfeet]

26. I agree in principle, but this would be an invasion of privacy. Any such law

would have to be based on a demonstrated predisposition to certain behaviors.

What do you think of gun safety certification programs? The hopeful gun owner MUST pass a safety certification for initial licensing, then re-certify at some interval, every year or two years or so.

[jmg257]

14. Do it for the children! And after guns, we get cars, and matches, and pools, and 5 gallon pails,

and poisons, and pillows and ropes and all the other evil devices that cause even more childhood death & misery.

Carelessness is no excuse. "It was an accident" is no excuse. We must all be prepared to give up so many things, if we can spare the suffering or tragic death of just 1 more child.

[Scout]

23. big difference between an accident and negligence n/t

[jmg257]

24. No argument there. Curious why the OP chose to make "another gun" the issue. and not the negligence

[Hangingon]

39. Most accident investigations show some sort of negligence n/t

[Beaverhausen]

75. Guns have one purpose and one only - to harm or kill a living being

Cars, matches, pools,etc all have purposes in our lives. You can't compare guns to those other things. Sorry - doesn't work.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

80. My guns don't harm anything except paper targets, cans and golf balls.

[slackmaster]

97. O rly? Mine are serving me as long-term investments

They are one component of my retirement savings that has not dropped in value.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. A worthy sacrifice for 2nd Ammendment rights.

[jmg257]

18. Brilliant! When did YOU give up driving a car? Swimming? Matches? Right to due process? nt

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Hey, I'm agreeing with you!

[jmg257]

20. No thanks - a tragic & unnecessary death? Definitely. A "sacrifice"? No way. nt

[derby378]

17. WHY is it so hard to double-check a gun before cleaning?!?

I am so frustrated at this point. Gah.

[slackmaster]

22. It's very easy, and people should be trained until it's reflexive

By the time I was 11 years old I knew instinctively to check any firearm to see if it was loaded, even if I had personally unloaded it a short time earlier.

Basic gun safety training should be available in public schools. Most parents are not competent to teach it.

[derby378]

25. My point exactly - in most cases, it's hardly any effort at all

All you do is move a lever, tumble the revolver chamber, cock the slide, pull the charging handle, whatever. And if there's a magazine or stripper clip involved, you remove it before you check the action. How hard can it possibly be?

I feel so bad for that family. But Jeff Cooper's Four Rules could have saved them a lot of grief.

[Hangingon]

40. Checking and clearing a gun is the first step in gun cleaning.

We do not have much to work with in analyzing this event - as usual. What kind of gun was involved? I do not keep a gun with a loaded chamber in the house. Clearing the chamber or forgetting to clear the chamber is the usual cause of an accidental discharge. Was alcohol a factor? Drugs?

[gollygee]

27. I'm not a gun person

Meaning I have no guns. But I'm not anti-guns either. Most people I know have guns and I'm fine with that. I have no interest in the pro guns/gun control fight.

The thing that stands out to me is that this is one of many ways parents accidentally kill their kids. They also forget them in their cars in the heat, accidentally back over them as they're backing out the driveway, don't securely close the gate around the pool, don't properly supervise them in the bath, etc. I'm a parent and I have to say part of parenting is making sure your kids don't accidentally kill themselves, and to a lesser extent that you don't accidentally kill your kids. I've a couple of times had to pull over because I realized I forgot to fasten my daughter's seatbelt, for instance.

So, this is certainly a tragedy but I don't think the fact that a gun was involved makes it a worse tragedy than many others I've read about.

[NeedleCast]

33. Perfectly Resonable Response

so...it doesn't belong in a gun thread.

[LanternWaste]

34. And people wonder why I...

And people wonder why I do my best to avoid guns and those who carry them.... :eyes:

[Shardik]

37. I'm like you.

I can handle someone who may own a shotgun or firearm of some sort out in the country, but the... Sorry, I'll call them nuts, who make it their main interest in life to have a collection of firearms scare the hell out of me.

When I was a carpenter, I owned a couple of hammers. I had enough to do the various jobs I might be asked to do. Many pro gun folks love to say the gun is nothing more than a tool. If that's so, why are so many inclined to own dozens of them? I fish. I own a fly rod and a casting rod.

The gun culture people are beyond my understanding to the point that I do my best to avoid them.

[Hangingon]

42. This new "country" thing is bullshit.

Why should I have to live on the ranch to own a gun? To make it easier for the urban thugs?

[Shardik]

57. This "country thing" is not new. What's with the "urban thugs?" Code for racism?

I live in the country and did live in Atlanta for 20 years. Never owned a gun in ATL and never needed one.

[Hangingon]

67. I lived in Austin, Dallas, Seattle and suburban Washington D.C.

for 60 years. I owned guns for sports - hunting and target shooting. In all of those cities there were urban robberies and house burglaries. I do think the "country" thing is a new fiction to fragment the gun discussion. Do city dwellers have less rights than country dwellers? Apparently some think so. No "urban thugs" is not racist code. Was that response the "new code" for anything you disagree with.

[Shardik]

68. Gee, do you have that many rabid animals or predators threatening your livestock

in the "city?"

I chose to disagree with the premise that more guns is good guns. You say you have owned guns for 60 years (hunting & target shooting)??? Are you 80 or were you given guns before you were able to realize their potential for misuse?

[Hangingon]

76. Is the only reason for a firearm to protect livestock?

What curious reasoning. City people - I would have thought that applied to Atlantians too - own guns to hunt (in the country) and for target shooting. I'm not 80 and I did have guns from the time I was 11 on. I was taught firearm safety by my parents, Boy Scouts, shooting clubs and NRA youth courses.
As for "I chose to disagree with the premise that more guns is good guns", agree or disagree as you wish. I have no idea what that statement means.

[jmg257]

50. So you don't mind if I call you an ass? Because YOU don't understand something you fear it?

That seems like a tough way to go through life.

I am not a carpenter, yet I own a couple hammers, because that is how many I choose to own. I fish, and I own a few more fishing rods, 'cause that is how many I choose to own. I own more then a few guns, because that is how many I choose to own.

Sorry that scares you. Feel free to avoid gun owners if you must, as long as you don't allow your fear to cause you to give up the right to own things because you choose to - THAT would be nuts.

[Shardik]

59. Sure, call me an ass because I don't ascribe to your paranoia.

I grew up hunting dove and duck. Then I grew up.

Tell me, what would you think about a person that kept a safe full of hammers and nails just in case of a deck emergency?

That'd be kinda nutty.

[jmg257]

69. THAT would be. But then I don't keep a safe full of guns in case of emergency either (or to hunt).

And YOU are the one who admitted you were paranoid, due to a lack of understanding.

I do know a carpenter who collects all kinds of old tools - I guess he is nuts too?

[Shardik]

71. While you may not there are plenty that do.

As to the carpenter friend, does he load them up on the weekend to go drilling, hammering and planing?

[jmg257]

73. Point taken, then. Ha!..naa - he just had them hanging around the apartment! (my B.I.L). I would

not say anything derogatory about him anyway - he is working on my house!

[Jamastiene]

74. ...

:popcorn:

[LanternWaste]

81. And yet...

And yet so many times I get hit with the same tired, invalid question when I bring this up: "why do you want to live in fear?". To which I can only respond that there is a precise and relevant difference between fear and prudence.

"The gun culture people are beyond my understanding"
You and me both.

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. I'm going to assume that you own only one fly, one hook, and one sinker.

[Javaman]

36. Okay, not being a gun owner but cleaning a loaded gun doesn't sound very bright...

but that's me.

[spin]

46. The first thing you do when you clean a firearm...

is to check to see that it's unloaded.

In fact, the first thing you do when you pick up a firearm is check to see if it's loaded. If the gun leaves your hands if only for a minute, you check to see if it's loaded when you pick it up again. (A family friend stopped over at the house one time and I was showing him my firearms. He was amused at how man times I checked to see that they were unloaded.)

[yodoobo]

41. I so can't wait till Obama tackles this crap

Maybe in 4 years, we can finally get some common sense sanity and start rounding these terrible things up.

If you don't hunt, and you are not a cop or a soldier, you have no business with a gun.

If you are a hunter, or a cop, or soldier, then 2nd amendment will protect your rights.

That's just common sense.

I'm sure i'll be flamed by the gun nuts now.

[DrCory]

43. Please Be So Kind...

"If you don't hunt, and you are not a cop or a soldier, you have no business with a gun.

If you are a hunter, or a cop, or soldier, then 2nd amendment will protect your rights."

As to direct me to where in the Second hunting/hunters are mentioned? Oh, and while you're at it, please also show me where the word "people" is explained as meaning only police, soldiers, and hunters.

"I'm sure i'll be flamed by the gun nuts now."

Do you believe anyone who disagrees with you is a "nut"?

[yodoobo]

49. 2nd amendment rights of hunters is not explicitly listed

But has been covered by Supreme Court rulings.

Strictly speaking, the 2nd amendment only covers the militia. This would be the army, national guard and I think a reasonable case could be made that it includes police officers as well.

Frankly, I'd love to see high powered hunter/sniper weapons banned as well, but that is probably an impossible task politically speaking.

[slackmaster]

52. No, the militia is and has always been the people

Here is the actual current definition in the US Code:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311Prev | Next § 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=militia&url=/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

[Incitatus]

55. Exactly, too many people confuse the word militia with the enlisted army. nt

[ZombieHorde]

94. all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age

Does this mean that disabled people do not have a right to own firearms? How do you interpret this?

[slackmaster]

95. Everyone who is not disqualified (e.g. by criminal record) has a right to own firearms

I was simply pointing out the folly of the tired old argument that the Second Amendment applies only to militias.

[jmg257]

54. Strictly speaking - you are mistaken. Our role in the Militia is only one reason for securing the

right to arms. Self-defense, sporting, and all lawful purposes covers it pretty well.

BTW, the 2nd most definitely does NOT cover the Army. Fear of a large Army is exactly why the PEOPLE'S right to arms was secured.
I would think other agents of the state such as police would be guarded against also.

National guard is close, but not - as they were a new entity created as reserves of the federal army, and are armed by the government. Oh, and we the people are still part of THE Militia.

[aikoaiko]

58. Strictly speaking the 2nd Amendment covers "the people".

You are so far away from Obama's position on gun rights and gun control that the NRA is closer.

[aikoaiko]

60. This is a sad, tragic accident that could have easily been prevented.

Coopers 4 rules apply.

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.


I've been surprised when I went to check guns for cleaning to find one in the chamber. Whenever you pick up a gun, check, double check, triple check to make sure it is unloaded.

While doing so make sure your finger is off the trigger and the muzzle is not pointed at anything precious.

[yodoobo]

65. Oh I know my position isn't the same

While I'm very sure that Obama will take decisive action on assault weapons, I'm not so hopeful that he'll address handguns and other firearms.

[jmg257]

70. Unfortunately, I think you are correct on this point (unfortunate about the 1st part, not the 2nd).

[Pavulon]

45. Ban them, like dope.

That worked really well.

[Recursion]

47. Sorry, the 2nd amendment has 0 to do with hunting

For that matter there is no, absolutely 0, "right" to hunt, even on your own land.

It ticks me off because "hunting" is a codeword: rural whites can have guns, nobody else can.

[spin]

63. My daughter wasn't a hunter, a cop or a soldier...

she was merely a 16 year old girl who weighed less than 100 pounds.

When she found an intruder forcing the slicing glass door in our kitchen open one night, she pointed a large caliber revolver at him. He left.

We had a burglar alarm which was sounding and a 60 pound Black Lab in the house. (The Lab was very intelligent. She chose to let the human with the firearm handle the problem.)

Because my daughter had access to a firearm that night, I now have two wonderful grandchildren to enjoy.

You have every right to your opinion and I suspect that your life experiences have taught you that guns are "terrible things". My life experience has taught me that it's not the gun that's terrible but irresponsible or criminal people. Guns are inanimate objects.

Gun confiscation doesn't appear to be on Obama's agenda. Any attempt to implement such measures would face considerable opposition. First he would face political and legal hurdles. The recent Supreme Court decision in the Heller case would have to be overturned. While this is not impossible, it's unlikely. Despite the conservative views on Roe V Wade and the number of conservative judges appointed to the Supreme Court, it has never been overturned. Any effort to enforce such a draconian gun control law would probably hurt the Democratic Party for years to come. Many gun owners voted for Obama and other Democrats during this election, but would be very willing to cast their votes for Republicans in the future if any idea like gun confiscation was seriously considered.

[yodoobo]

64. I'm glad that everything turned out well for you and your daughter

And its good that the burglar was turned away.

But for every success, there are hundreds of sad incidents. Incidents where the intruder steals the gun and then does tragic things. Incidents where children and teens are killed through accidents or criminal acts.

I agree that Obama won't confiscate guns and I would not want him to.

I do hope that he invokes an extensive mandatory buyback program for assault weapons and optional for handguns/other guns however.

I think we'll make alot of progress in this area of gun proliferation. As much as I would like to see? Probably not.

[spin]

72. Yes, it's true that all too often firearms...

are involved in tragedy. As I said, they are inanimate objects. Both the good and the bad they are involved in is caused by the people who own them.

That's why I try to be understanding of people who hate firearms with a passion. My experience has been far more positive than the exposure to firearms that many other people have had.

We live a a climate of fear caused by criminal activity. Many people who have no real use for a firearm, obtain one as a means of self protection. In most cases, the firearms are never used to deter crime and are a potential danger to the people who own them. Sadly many gun owners are unfamiliar with common gun safety rules. Some suffer from anger management problems or substance abuse.

While many gun enthusiasts will disagree with me, I believe that before you can purchase a firearm you should have to pass a gun safety course. Before you can buy air for your tanks if you are a scuba diver, you need a card.

The weapons banned by the last Assault weapons ban were merely evil looking rifles with actions similar to common hunting rifles. They were not fully automatic weapons which are already restricted. In many cases you could take a common hunting rife and turn it into an "assault weapon" by changing the stock. To be honest, most hunting rifles fire a much more powerful and deadly round. The last AWB ban accomplished little or nothing and just merely made the evil looking weapons popular. Every shooter and most gun owners I knew just had to have one. The manufacturers merely changed the appearance of their products to comply with the ban and sold plenty of these weapons for a ridiculously high price.

I feel we need to take guns out of the hands of criminals by enforcing the laws we already have. If criminals stop carrying guns on the street, the level of violence and fear will decrease and so will the demand for firearms.

[The Straight Story]

88. Actually I think you have that backwards

"But for every success, there are hundreds of sad incidents."

Should be -
But for every sad incident, there are hundreds of successes.

[123infinity]

85. Funny how some people think the Bill of Rights ends after the First Amendment.

:grr:

[Pavulon]

44. RTFM Dumbshits (not you)

the manual for every firearm clearly states to UNLOAD before cleaning. It also states not to point at others, etc.

This same type of asshole backs over their kids with the car, then blames ford.

This is a moron problem.

[boozepusher]

56. "Cleaning" actually means

playing with. Owning and handling firearms is serious business. You have to follow the basic safety rules at all times. There is no excuse for tragedies like this. If this guy hadn't ignored all four rules his little girl would still be alive. If he had just followed any of the four, things would have turned out different.

1. All firearms are always loaded. ***
2. Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always be sure of your target and know what is behind it along the bullet's trajectory.

[FLAprogressive]

61. Next time a kid gets hit by a car make a thread on it.

We can ban cars too.

It's sad -- but it's the parent being irresponsible...

[joshcryer]

90. Heh, or any open water, or electricity, or riding a bike, or walking down the damn street.

We should ban all of those things, clearly.

[anonymous171]

66. That fucking gun, killing an innocent child. I hope it gets jail time.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

77. Nothing like exploiting a tragedy to make a point.

[mw]

78. U can have my gun when u pry it from the fingers of my cold, dead child

nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

79. A reading comprehension course might be nice for you.

[mw]

100. A sarcasm comprehension course might be good for you?

nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. Oh I get it you are mocking the dead kid.

[mw]

105. Jesus. I guess a "chill" class would be even better for you

Chill.

[cobalt1999]

86. 18 children killed in toy-related incidents in 2007, more than 200,000 injured

www.startribune.com/nation/34351919.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiacyKUnciatkEP7DhU

WASHINGTON - At least 18 children under 15 years old died in toy-related accidents in 2007.

The majority of these deaths were caused by blocked airways, drowning or accidents involving motor vehicles, according to Consumer Product Safety Commission data. Many of the incidents were not caused by the toys, but occurred while the children were playing.

Fourteen of the 18 children were boys.

The largest number of children, five, were killed in tricycle-related incidents — one from a fall, one from a motor vehicle accident and three from drowning after falling into pools while riding.



Such a shame, when are we going to ban toys?

[Crunchy Frog]

89. How does that number compare with the number killed by guns?

[slackmaster]

96. Roll your own statistics at WISQARS

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/

For 2005 the number was 404 including all intents. For accidents, I got 75.

To put it into a larger perspective, look at the Leading Causes of Death reports.

[Crunchy Frog]

103. Now I wonder how it works out as a percentage of kids who have access

to guns dying vs kids who have access to toys dying. It's my suspicion that guns are vastly more dangerous to kids than toys are, but I could be wrong.

[slackmaster]

108. I haven't seen anyone here saying that kids SHOULD have access to guns

So your comment really is rather empty.

[Crunchy Frog]

109. Somebody on here was comparing the danger of toys to the danger of guns.

I was just trying to look at that comparison more closely. :shrug:

[depakid]

92. The lengths that Americans will go to rationalize their dysfunctional firearms policies

never fails to impress.

[cobalt1999]

93. Nor the lengths some people will go through to reduce or limit our Rights

Doesn't matter if it's a fundie Republican trying to justify scaling back the 1st amendment "for the sake of the children", or some liberal using the exact same tactic to scale back the 2nd amendment.

I feel the same disgust at both groups.

[Pavulon]

98. You in australia? Not blocked yet?

one step at a time until you have jack shit left.

[depakid]

99. As I told you before, no net plan is going to be implemented

and thus the connection in NSW is just fine (could be a bit speedier- but that's just DSL vs. cable).

Plus- No gun accidents that I can remember seeing over the past several years- and NO mass shootings since 1996.

Sure beats having one one (or more) every couple of weeks. One of many benefits of living in a handgun and assualt weapon free society.

[Pavulon]

101. They are trying, time to ban the v8 next

ban toothpicks and swimming pools.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1399635276&eid=-255

[depakid]

104. Not going to happen because:

A) It's not technically feasible- filters wouldn't reach file sharing protocols and would not only hamper legitimate searches, but impede law enforcement; and

B) Even if, once having figured this out (as officals have after similar testing in the states) Labor wanted to go ahead with any such plan, the Australian Senate wouldn't support it.

But, you can keep on believing it if you like- otherwise reasonable people latch on to all sorts of bizarre rationalizations for their obsessions- in this case, an obsession with firearms that serve no useful purpose other than to threaten and kill people or conversely, to "protect" one's self or family from overstated threats through keeping guns in the house (which research shows actually creates a much greater risk of harm members of the household).

[Pavulon]

106. I can give you the BOM

to make that happen. Not a technical issue. DPI is a motherfucker. Inspects packets and can even sit man in the middle on ssl tunnel. Anything not known good is blocked. That would be preshared cryptographic tools or tunneling technologies that do not allow inspection at layer7. The equipment is in use in gulf nations and china.

There is a principal at work, they take and take and then you end up with nothing.

Rifles are not a statistically relevant factor in US crime. Poverty, mental health, drug law, and cultural issues drive the majority of crime.

Murder rate looks pretty flat.

http://www.aic.gov.au/research/homicide/stats/

[depakid]

107. Aussie's aren't paranoid about the government "taking and taking"

that seems to be a uniquely American thing- though that could well be because in almost all respects, Oz is a much saner, safer and freer society than America, where the social contract and the Geneva Convention- and rights of the accused are viewed as quaint anachonisms of little use to 21st Century government.