Scum-sucking Repug bastards: Labor Unions and high wages are to blame for auto industry woes......

[marmar]

:argh:



from ThinkProgress:



Conservative Politicians Misleadingly Blame Labor Unions For Detroit’s Woes»

Congress and the Bush administration are currently considering whether to spend $25 billion to rescue Detroit automakers. The proposal has generally been met with stiff resistance from conservatives, who have increasingly been pinning all the blame for the crisis in Detroit on labor unions:

Sen. Jim DeMint: “Some auto manufacturers are struggling because of a bad business structure with high unionized labor costs and burdensome federal regulations. Taxpayers did not create these problems and they should not be forced to pay for them.”

Sen. Jon Kyl: “For years they’ve been sick. They have a bad business model. They have contracts negotiated with the United Auto Workers that impose huge costs.The average hourly cost per worker in this country is about $28.48. For these auto makers, it’s $73. And for the Japanese auto companies working here in the United States, it’s $48.”

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger: “You know, if you pay the auto workers or the benefits and all of those things, are maybe too high. … We have, like, in America, you sell a car, and you have $2,000 of each car just goes to benefits. So I think that there’s a way of reducing all of that, make them more fiscally responsible.”

Watch a compilation: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/17/unions-auto-bailout/



Unions do not deserve the blame placed on them by the right wing. In fact, unions have repeatedly made concessions to auto executives over recent years. Contrary to Kyl’s claim, new auto employees earn $25.65 an hour.

Big Three automaker CEOs and executives based their business model on a future of cheap oil, fighting fuel efficiency standards despite warnings against such a strategy. Detroit manufactured, as Tom Friedman pointed out, oversized gas-guzzling SUVs that reduced their competitive edge.

Financial firms AIG, Merrill Lynch, and Bear Stearns did not have unionized workers but still suffered economic collapses. Frozen credit markets and a spiraling recession were major contributors to Detroit’s current state. Today, the Center for American Progress urged Congress “to support legislation to grant a $25 billion bridge loan to the U.S. auto companies to ensure that they avoid bankruptcy” provided the automakers provide health and retirement security and invest in clean technology.


http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/17/unions-auto-bailout/

[Duke Newcombe]

1. That bus is tilting mighty high...

with all of the victims the GOP is throwing under it.

[sandnsea]

2. Granholm said it's down to $14

when she was talking to Andrea Mitchell today. Some new auto plant that is run more on the Japanese style. And since I believe there are many workers down to $14 and below, how much are the taxpayers subsidizing labor costs with food stamps, health care, LIHEAP, WIC, college grants, etc.

[hootinholler]

27. "How much are the taxpayers subsidizing labor costs?"

That is a great question! Privatize profit and publicize not only the risk, but operating costs also. Who would have those numbers. I'm so tired of Republicon union busting blame to poor for the world's ills.

-Hoot

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Fuck Kyl. God I hate him. nt

[Trajan]

4. They have it exactly backwards ...

The problem with the Big 3 is NOT that auto workers make too much, but that all other workers make too little ... They have been strangling worker wages for decades, and this is the expected result ... They have succeeded ....

IF everyone made near to what auto workers make: We would be buying cars left and right, and ALL corporations would be getting richer and richer ....

Greedy saps are fucking EVERYTHING up ...

[Blue Diadem]

12. .

:thumbsup:

[anigbrowl]

13. That's not very logical

Your argument that if everyone made the same as auto workers (at least, the ones who joined during the days of very high wages) then the country would be doing great doesn't really make sense. If everyone made that much, we'd have just seen much more inflation. I don't think it's a bad thing that UAW got great wages when Detroit was riding high, but to be expecting those wages when the company isn't profitable is not realistic...I also think it's sort of unfair on newer workers, who obviously are never gonna get the same deal. Maybe a profit sharing scheme would have been more equitable and sutainable, rather than straight up wage bargaining which wasn't flexible enough to allow outgoings to rise or fall with the companies' profits.

[Trajan]

16. Maybe companies should preserve some profits for lean times ...

Auto manufacturers could (and do) reduce headcount during lean periods and hire when sales increase ...

Why punish autoworkers, who have helped CREATE the middle class through their sacrifice and dedication for decades ?? .... Because everybody else cannot afford a car ? ...

I cannot afford ANY car, whether US built or not .... And I have a 'good job' ....

But after DECADES of restricting wage increase that better match increased costs and prices, the whole economy has finally reached the point where it cannot buy another 'frivolous' purchase, outside of food, shelter and clothing ... I am making the same wage (with OT) that I made 10 years ago (without OT) .... I am making the same wage today as I made 18 years ago ....

How much were cars then ? ..... How about fuel ? .... groceries ? .... rent ?

Im sorry ... But I dont accept that reducing everybody's wages is the answer .... We have seen workers concede wages, and that did not result in cheaper products, but in increased profit margins ....

When is it going to end ? ....

With your formula: It will only get worse ....

[sandnsea]

31. That's been proven wrong

When you look at the states that increased their minimum wage, they did much better economically compared to those who didn't. Inflation was not a factor. Wages have been plummeting since the 70's. Has your cost of living gone down? Stop eating everything your spoon-fed and use your head. What they tell you isn't what is happening out here in the real world. Housing went up because of a housing bubble, not increased wages. Health care? Why did a doctors visit go from $20 to $200 in 30 years. Minimum wage didn't even triple. People have got to think.

[anigbrowl]

32. I wasn't talking about minimum wage, but profit-sharing.

I don't buy your argument that 'wages have been plummeting since the mid-70s' - compared to what? Profits? Costs of living? Try being more specific and I may be persuaded. I do not think the whole Detroit thing is unions' fault by any means, but nor do I think you can just wave a magic wand and declare high wages will fix everything.

[sandnsea]

33. I won't research for you

Just because you don't "buy" something, or "think" this or that, doesn't make it a fact.

You need to research. You need to go look at the median wage, individual hourly wage, minimum wage, in the 60s and 70s and compare it to now. Real working class wages have been plummeting, while the income of the top 5% has been going up at an insane rate. Have you really missed all the reporting on the shrinking middle class and wealth disparity?

[anigbrowl]

34. You're making the assertion, it's up to you to back it up

And I was not asking you to do research, but simply put your comment in context (which you have done to some degree here). You chose to disagree with my opinion - although your objection has little or nothing to do with what I was talking about - but your previous post was so hand-waving that it wasn't clear what point you were trying to make.

[HughBeaumont]

39. Read this: Comes from Steven Greenhouse.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/46

Some snippets:

· Since 1979, hourly earnings for 80% of American workers have risen by just 1 percent (all stats factor inflation). The average wage was 17.71/hr in 2007, falling by 5 percent compared to 1979.

· If wages kept pace with productivity, the average full time worker would be earning 58,000/year. Instead, he/she earns 36,000/yr.

· 20% of families with children under 6 live below the poverty line.

· The typical American worker puts in 1804 hours a year. That's 135 hours more than the average British worker, 240 more than the French worker and 370 more hours than the German worker. That could be because we’re also the only industrialized nation that has no mandates regarding a minimum number of vacation days per year (unlike the Swedish and the French, who mandate 5 and 6 weeks, respectively). The good ol' Yew Ess Ay is also one of four countries (out of 173 nations surveyed) that do not provide paid maternity leave.

· Almost ¼ of the American workforce (33 million workers) earn less than 10 dollars an hour, which is less than poverty for a family of four.

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. And They Say Democrats Want To Take Away Your Money

Wake up, people!

[StreetKnowledge]

37. Both sides do

Democrats want to use your money to give you better services, healthcare and education for your kids, and enforcement of these standards.

Republicans want to take your money and use it to line their pockets.

[lpbk2713]

6. They won't admit corporate greed and mismanagement are to blame.

It's all about union busting. Make the unions look like the
bad guys so the auto mfgrs can eliminate them altogether.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. That is it ..EXACTLY!!! The workers did not decide to make huge gas-guzzlers. It was managment

that made bad decisions...

The ultimate goal of all this is to make sure that auto workeers are no longer unionized.

[underpants]

22. How much does exec. pay add to the cost of each car?

I think this whole thing is about union busting.

[dysfunctional press]

7. "Contrary to Kyl’s claim, new auto employees earn $25.65 an hour. ..."

i have to defend kyl on this one- he didn't say that auto workers EARN $73/hr- he said that the hourly labor COST to the company is $73- that includes what the worker takes home, as well as health benefits, vacation pay, unemployment insurance, fica contribution, etc...

[spag68]

9. Kyl

There is no defence of that asshole. He is one of the worst of the worst. He even looks like a creep,smug bastard, wait, he is all of that and more.

[dysfunctional press]

14. how about if i just defer to defending the facts of the situation then...?

in that the hourly cost of labor for u.s. automakers is $73/hr.

[Selatius]

35. It could be half of that and the company would still fail if it is poorly led.

It would probably be easier to sack the CEO and vote out everyone on the Board of Directors than to fight the UAW in court. New, visionary management is needed, not more of the same tepid, unimaginative leadership.

[Hannah Bell]

8. new hires in "non-core" positions start at $14/hr per the 2007 contract.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/26/AR2007092600155.html


How much are current UAW auto industry wages?

In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor. Between 2003 and 2006, the wages of a typical UAW assembler have grown at about the same rate as wages in the private sector as a whole – roughly 9 percent. Part of that growth is due to cost-of-living adjustments that have helped prevent inflation from eroding the purchasing power of workers’ wages.

What is the compensation for auto industry executives?

The CEOs of Chrysler Group, Ford and GM earned a combined total of $24.5 million in salaries, bonuses and other compensation in 2006.

The next four highest paid executives received average salary and other compensation of $1.3 million at Ford and $1.4 million at GM. These substantial sums do not include the value of stocks and stock options that were also part of executive compensation.

Why is the figure cited as hourly labor costs by the companies so much higher than the wage rates?

In addition to regular hourly pay, the labor cost figures cited by the companies include other expenses associated with having a person on payroll. This includes overtime, shift premiums and the costs of negotiated benefits such as holidays, vacations, health care, pensions and education and training. It also includes statutory costs, which employers are required to pay by law, such as federal contributions for Social Security and Medicare, and state payments to workers’ compensation and unemployment insurance funds. The highest figures sometimes cited also include the benefit costs of retirees who are no longer on the payroll.

How much value do UAW members contribute to their employers?

American autoworkers are among the most productive workers in the world. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the typical autoworker produces value added worth $206 per worker per hour.1 This is far more than he or she earns in wages, even when benefits, statutory contributions and other costs are included.

How much are labor costs in relation to the total price of a new vehicle?

The total labor cost of a new vehicle produced in the United States is about $2,400,2 which includes direct, indirect and salaried labor for engines, stamping and assembly at the automakers’ plants.

This represents 8.4 percent of the typical $28,4513 price of a new vehicle in 2006. The vast majority of the costs of producing a vehicle and transporting it to a dealership and preparing it for sale – including design, engineering, marketing, raw materials, executive compensation and other costs – are not related to direct or indirect manufacturing labor.


http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

[MN Farmer]

19. Sounds like the UAW members sold their newest brethern down the river, huh?

[Hannah Bell]

21. no, i'd say it was more the company.

[MN Farmer]

36. The rank and file

Voted to accept the contract that gave the new hires crap wages while maintaining their higher wages.

Nobody held a gun to their head to vote YES on that contract. They could have stood up for their fellow (and future) brothers and sisters in labor, but they chose the easy out.

[Hannah Bell]

40. yes, someone did hold a gun. The workers were told the corp would have to lay off

& close plant if they didn't get concessions.

When there's coercion involved, I put primary blame for the results on the gangsters making the threats, with the power to destroy more people's lives.


Some people, otoh, take pleasure in telling the threatened they should have been more manly.

[brentspeak]

11. These cretins won't be happy until everyone is working for $5/hour w/ no benefits

[This One]

15. It's not the labor costs, it's the lack of cars that people want

and that's a problem with management, who decided to concentrate on pick up trucks, SUVs, and crappy sedans that end up on Hertz and Avis lots. If labor costs were the problem, GM cars would cost more than Toyotas and Hondas but that's not necessarily the case. If GM had put their efforts into making a Prius clone instead of an Escalade, they'd be in the black.

[Trajan]

17. It's not the lack of cars that people want ....

It is the lack of usuable income available for car purchases ....

It is the destruction of the credit markets, due, I believe, to weak family incomes ....

There are PLENTY of nice cars of all types to whet the most discerning appetites .... Nobdoy can afford to buy them .... WHY ?

Family incomes have been MADE weak by a conservative economic philosophy that devalues workers and their families while it promotes exorbitant 'profits' for the mildest investment ....

[GrizzlyMan]

20. Actually it's a little bit of both

GM and Ford banked on strong SUV sales moving forward. They never figured on $4 gas and by the time they figured that out, it was too late. Weak income is a huge part of it, but the lack of will to innovate by the big 3 is another big piece of the puzzle.

[Romulox]

29. No, you don't understand the situation. Retiree costs add $1400 per Big 3 vehicle.

$1400 might be the entire profit margin on a sub-compact.

"If labor costs were the problem, GM cars would cost more than Toyotas and Hondas but that's not necessarily the case."

You forgot a third option: GM's per vehicle profit is much lower, irrespective of the sticker price.

"If GM had put their efforts into making a Prius clone instead of an Escalade, they'd be in the black."

Nope.

[Puzzler]

18. Then how do they account for the fact...

... that most of their competitors overseas are union/high wage institutions too?

[iceman66]

26. The major difference is health care.

What's killing the 'big three' is not so much hourly labor costs, but the cost of providing health care not only to workers but to dependents and retirees.

If we had some form of national health care, like the rest of the civilized world, our manufacturers would be a lot more competitive.

[underpants]

23. Was there a gun put to their heads when they signed the contracts?

Why no there wasn't.

Aside from that, as I posted above, what is added to the cost of each car in Executive pay?

Their problem is on the top floors.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. that's a lie and part of their agenda (the right) to as they call it "Kill the Beast" -The New Deal

Social Security is the main target of these animals

[loyalkydem]

25. Whose trying to take away money now

Dumb motherfucking bastards. Maybe we should wait until Jan 30th. Repubs won't let anything pass to help the american people.

[Romulox]

28. What's Jon Kyl's DU username? Cause I'm seeing the same sentiments here daily. nt

[gravity]

30. The UAW deserves some of the blame along with the management

Both need to be restructured to make them viable in the future.

[TheKentuckian]

38. It would be cool to honestly discuss this by comparing apples to apples

but instead we pretend that we don't trail civilization on cafe and emissions standards and that those we compete against are not getting a tremendous hand from their governments in the form of healthcare, pensions, and state investment. We can also pretend that many, many consumers weren't all about getting into a Hummer of whatever big ass truck they could overextend themselves to buy.

Instead, I guess we'll keep bullshitting and working with the Republiscum to undermine workers, our own national security interests, and the economy at large.