The Big Heist...."We Were Royally Ripped Off"

[kpete]

The Big Heist
by: David Sirota
Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:24

In the slapstick classic Funny Farm, Chevy Chase ends up writing a novel called The Big Heist which is so bad - so painfully, terribly awful - that he ends up going insane and burning it in front of his horrified wife. With that in mind, here's my question after reading this little-noticed two-week-old story: Are we all living on a funny farm, and does this story prove that we've just experienced the big heist - ie. a pathetically unfunny rip-off scheme of trillion-dollar proportions?
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=4E39218CB9EB3B4E63BFBBA248E987BF?diaryId=10002

For banks, what credit crunch?

Banks continue to lend to businesses, despite anecdotes to the contrary. Loan data rebut tales of "frozen" lending.

By MIKE MEYERS, Star Tribune

Last update: November 2, 2008 - 10:36 PM

.........................

The nation indeed may be facing a financial crisis, with large institutions failing in the wake of multibillion debts, but most bank-lending to business customers actually has been on the rise.

"The story goes that they (banks) are holding on to the money or putting it into Treasury bills," said Lawrence Christiano, a Northwestern University economist and consultant to the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. "That seems to fly directly into the face of the evidence that's out there."

The latest government numbers, through mid-October, show bank commercial and industrial loans up, bank commercial real estate loans rising and interbank loans climbing. Indeed, from September 2007 to mid-October of this year, the numbers in all three categories have climbed consistently.

..............

Their findings:

Bank lending to corporate America and individuals has not declined; Lending between banks has not dried up; Commercial paper (short-term borrowing by nonfinancial companies) has fallen, but not seized up as a source of commercial lending. (Indeed, commercial-paper levels last week started to head back up for the first time since the failure of Lehman Brothers, in mid-September.); Banks do not, as popularly believed, play a large role in channeling money from savers to borrowers.

more at:
http://www.startribune.com/business/33676989.html

If we are to believe this story - and it indeed quotes very credible economists - taxpayers were forced to give away hundreds of billions of dollars to banks that actually weren't experiencing nearly the credit crisis they and our government officials claimed. Even if only part of this story is accurate and statistics have somewhat changed, it still means we were royally ripped off.

more at:
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10002

[spanone]

1. k&r

[earth mom]

2. Of course we were ripped off. What else could we expect from the * & Co thugs?

:grr:

[bvar22]

11. "the * & Co thugs" had help.

Credit where credit is due.

[loudsue]

29. In fact, it is actually the fault of Pelosi & Reid. I agree.

We have a friggin majority....slim, but nevertheless a majority. And they could have called it what it was/is, just another bush cabal Ponzi scheme to steal billions from taxpayers to give to republican cronies....and I'm sure the bush family with their banking ties will profit handsomely.

I want JAIL TIME for both Paulson and Bernanke for this scheme, and all of those assholes who have testified before congress how VITAL it was/is that we keep financing these rip-off artists.

There is not and never has been any material loss behind what these wall street magicians did. What they lost were bets...just like on a poker table...that what they were betting on would go up. They lost to one another and to the Saudis and to the other big money players, and the whole thing is nothing but VERY WEALTHY mafia on a global scale. Mafia that is in charge of governments, such as the bush crime family, Bernanke, Paulson, Cox and the whole wall street gang that Eliot Spitzer was going after when they caught him with his zipper down.

And the Dem leadership aided and abetted. Now, you don't have to be a friggin' genius to be a Senator or Congressman...we've seen too much ignorance in those two bodies, through stupid speeches, to believe that many of them have a very high IQ. But most of them are without morals or ethics of any kind, and they are all subject to blackmail that will cut off their well-funded life styles. We also know that they have had their phones tapped for the last 8 years, and computers have been hacked. So, yeah, the criminals know enough to blackmail every single person in congress.

So, not only are the legislators being blackmailed, but they're also probably benefiting from their own votes to steal all these billions from taxpayers. And anybody that's looking at Obama's choices for cabinet posts knows that the only change he plans on making in Washington is new make-up and hairdo's, more lipstick for the pigs.

:kick:

[bdamomma]

3. Financial Shock and Awe.

that is what it is.

We have been screwed again. Paulson and Bernanke should be arrested.

[nichomachus]

4. Was their ever the slightest doubt we were being ripped off?

Everything the Bush Crime Family has told us since Day 1 has been proven to be a lie. Only a complete fool or a small child would have believed them this time. Of course, they were robbing us -- and we handed over the treasury to the thieves -- many smiling, I hasten to add.

Signs of a Bush rip-off:

1. The world is going to end if you don't do XXX.

2. You have to do XXX by this afternoon or the world will end.

3. No, you don't have time to read the bill -- the world is going to end.

4. No, we don't need any oversight -- the world is going to end.

5. Thank you.

[unblock]

5. how to draw the wrong conclusion from limited data

banks are lending more, therefore there's no credit crunch? WRONG!

banks HAVE frozen out a LOT of companies that that are in the process of getting royally SCREWED because their debt structure required periodic rollover or refinancing. now banks are just saying no and these companies are desperate and many will fail as a result.

but what about the article that says banks are lending even more? sure they are, just not to the companies who actually NEED the money. instead, they're lending more money to a limited group of top-flight companies who are lying in wait for their smaller competitors -- the ones getting screwed -- to fail and/or cry out for a white knight. the big companies then swoop down and gobble up the former competitors.

this is not a healthy environment. sorry, the credit crunch is very real.

that doesn't mean the bailout was the perfect solution (it wasn't) but it certainly wasn't an effort to address a fictional problem.

[BeFree]

7. Huh?

You say that the banks are slanted against 'some' companies, but then you go on to say it's not a fictional crisis.

Can't you see that it is an artificial construct designed to rob the treasury? 1 + 1 = 2

[unblock]

9. are you claiming that banks are deliberately screwing companies?

not likely, since these same banks are already creditors to many of the companies they're screwing. ultimately, they're often screwing themselves in the process.

[BeFree]

10. Quote from you...

but what about the article that says banks are lending even more? sure they are, just not to the companies who actually NEED the money. instead, they're lending more money to a limited group of top-flight companies who are lying in wait for their smaller competitors -- the ones getting screwed -- to fail and/or cry out for a white knight. the big companies then swoop down and gobble up the former competitors.


So, it seems you say banks are deliberately screwing companies. "...instead, they're lending more to..."

Hello?

[unblock]

12. i didn't say or imply that the banks were conspiring or had evil intent

there's a panicky environment, a breakdown in mutual trust, and a general overabundance of fear. that's why they're not lending to so many companies who previously were considered credit-worthy.

banks are making micro decisions that seem prudent, but, in the aggregate, are creating an macro environment that is ultimately hurting themselves.

[BeFree]

13. Hurting themselves?

Gawd, they steal billions and you say they are hurting themselves?

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling.

When the time came to make or break the 700B, the banks made a crisis appear overnight by temporarily halting loans to governments, etc, thereby scaring people into calling their congresscritters and getting the bill passed.

And some of yall bought it, hook line and sinker.

[unblock]

14. the crisis was over a year in the making.

credit markets have been messed up since about august 2007. the "overnight" part was merely when it became more dramatic and obvious in the aftermath of the lehman failure.

like i said, the bailout wasn't perfect, and letting lenders off the hook for the actual bad loans they shouldn't have made isn't in anyone's interest, but the problems were and are certainly real enough, and i seriously doubt that the banks made it worse in a deliberate effort to get that bailout money. not only was the bailout far from certain, but banks face far more than $700bn in damage.

[anigbrowl]

15. Conspiracy fail

The banks didn't 'make a crisis appear overnight' as you suggest. It was brewing for ages, and when Lehman Brothers came down it became inevitable. I don't think you know what you're talking about; you speak of 'halting loans to governments', but banks don't grant or deny loans to governments, even at the municipal level. Loans to government are done by buying bonds et al, and some governments (eg Massachussetts) were feeling the squeeze because NOBODY was willing to buy their GO bonds at the advertised rate.

I don't like banks, I feel most of them have been wildly incompetent and blinded by greed in recent years - but I reject your conspiracy theory. It might have looked like an overnight crisis to you, but that was only because investors and the administration postponed dealing with reality until it became near catastrophic.

[BeFree]

16. I witnessed it

My local government was told the day before that they couldn't get a loan. That had never happened before.

Days later, no problem. Loan went through.

In the meantime congress went from No, to yes.

Do the math.

[anigbrowl]

18. Why amn't I convinced

What sort of loan? What terms? What size municipal entity are we talking about? And how does any of this back your 'crisi creation' theory?

[BeFree]

22. Evidently

You have much more faith and confidence in bushco than I ever did.

Anytime there is a crisis with this bunch, it has been proven to be manufactured.

Keep on protecting bushco if you want. We got your number.

[anigbrowl]

24. Why don't you just answer the questions? Guess it's easier to produce a rant about Bushco.

[BeFree]

25. Why?

Because your questions are useless to anything. If you don't believe me that I witnessed it, and can add 2 and 2 and get 4, then what use are you to anything?

Are you denying that bushco has engineered crises? Huh? Answer that, yes, or no. Or stfu.

[anigbrowl]

30. Fail

You say you witnessed something, but questions about it are 'useless to anything', and then try to turn it around by presenting a false dilemma fallacy. If you like being both illiterate and illogical, then carrying on is pointless.

[BeFree]

32. You're right

I should have said that the answers would be useless to 'you', not, as I wrote 'anything', because it's obvious you think I'm a lying sack of shit.

But I don't think you are a lying sack of shit, I just think you trust bushco more than I. Way more.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. That would suggest that the plan is to inflate ourselves out of debt. If we

can cause enough inflation then it's easy to pay off what we owe.

Paying in inflated dollar is always cheaper.

[Turbineguy]

8. But it will make

a great movie. DVD rentals will cover the cost.

[mhatrw]

17. Kick n/t

[Greyhound]

19. Gee, who would have thought...

Oh wait...

We did, at least some of us.

What will all you supporters of the Banksters that have children tell them you did to stop the parasite class from stealing their birthright? Will you just lie to them and say you were always against it, will you own up, or will you continue to push the same crap you've been shoveling here for the last weeks?
:kick: & R

[NoSheep]

20. No kidding! Really? I can't believe it. Gosh.

[KoKo]

21. Amazing...ain't it. So many of us around here knew it sounded like Iraq Resolution with

Paulson/Bernanke running around like Tenant was to Bush... Hair on Fire! Hair on Fire! Catastrophe is IMMENENT! SIGN NOW FOR BAIL OUT....AMERICA IS UNDER ATTACK...YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING.

All I gotta do is look at my IRA/401-K to know that the "Disaster" took away 40% of my Savings...while it bailed out Paulson's friends and ripped off the rest of us and not only are my Pension Savings gone 40% but I'll be having a tax bill that pays more for YEARS. :grr:

[mopinko]

23. what is easier to fake than a credit freeze.

anecdotes is all i ever heard. is still think the whole thing is bs.

[truedelphi]

26. K &R for later reading. n/t

[BigBearJohn]

27. surprise, surprise, surprise -- who would have guessed it?

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[tomp]

28. do you believe anything that corporations...

...or the politicians that serve them tell you? lies, front to back, top to bottom.

[Politicalboi]

31. 700 Billion

2.3 Trillion who's counting. They started with the elections and they have been screwing us ever since. We have been the best thing that has happened to Bush/Cheney. Lazy Americans who saw daily their rights being stolen and still did nothing or didn't even know it happened and still don't. Why not take everything. Nobody is going to do anything. America's up for grabs.