I know why they won't be convicted.

[Soylent Brice]

I know that's a brazen statement, but it's finally come together (in my head at least).

Bush and Cheney will not be convicted for shit. I wish and hope they will be. I support any criminal investigations and efforts, but it's a show. We're at the carnival, and we just realized that we're not going to get our money's worth.

let's take a look back in to the past:

a lot of you are extremely familiar with Smedley Butler and the Business Plot.

if not, please check these out:

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

something caught my eye when i was doing research for a paper i just did for my most recent college class. what i read was an insinuation by historians about FDR's own cabinet members being complicit.

BBC Radio - The Whitehouse Coup - Prescott Bush led Nazi Coup Attempt in 1933 (Video) (uk.youtube.com)

submitted 1 month ago by jasonmacs

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i think this is the problem. the only way Obama will be able to pass any radical legislation, and when i say radical i mean anything different than the shit we've been doing for the last 8 yrs, he's going to have to make a deal with the devil(s).

i'd like to think this may not be the case, but we may never see any convictions, ever.

the questions I have for DUers, which is the same i have been toiling with myself, is; "would you be okay with no convictions of the * Regime if Obama would have the freedom to get everything passed that needs to be.

FDR is rumored to have made a similar deal. Are the times different now? Can we have our cake and eat it too, or is this country still so fucked up that we'll have to resort to back-alley treaties in order to make progress?

What do you guys think?

[Wapsie B]

1. The short answer to me is yes.

To get single-payer health insurance coverage for everyone would be worth no convictions. That alone would make it worthwhile to me.
The realist in me says there would be no way in hell Bush and Cheney would ever have to answer for what they've done on this earth.
There are also those who believe in this concept of "cheap grace," meaning you could live an evil life but confess your sins and affirm your belief in God on your deathbed, thereby assuring a place in heaven. So they may never answer for their sins in the next life as well.

[Soylent Brice]

4. i feel the same way about HC coverage

and a lot of other things, but at the same time i keep telling myself that if we don't make a example of these assholes NOW it will just keep going.

i feel compelled to aid in the breaking of the cycle. but i also see the importance of fixing shit now, while we can.

is it worth it to forego the possibility of HC for all now if we can set an example for future leaders that this is a new America, where you will get thrown behind bars for acting with impunity towards the people? tough decision either way.

[Wapsie B]

7. I agree with you in that we need to make an example.

I wonder if they happened to be traveling outside this country after they leave office if an agency connected with the World Court could arrest them and take them to the Hague? Ah to dream...........
Since it is corporations that control our government I do not believe any substantive change will be allowed to happen in government until the corporations themselves with their execs at the top have to answer for their misdeeds. Run a company into the ground, forfeit any golden parachute. White-collar crime, your family is stripped of any and all assets, offshore accounts included.
When we can take the battle axe to corporate crimes then we'll see a change in government.

[Soylent Brice]

11. too bad

we can't get Paraguay to set up some kind of sting operation and have him arrested there. that would be funny.

he shows up in a hawaiian shirt and shades, tube socks up to his thighs, jus smirking away. as he walks down the stairs onto to the tarmac, he his flanked by some very peeved looking local commandos.

the photo is snapped, and the most gratifying picture of our history as a country would be born.

one can dream...

[Orsino]

2. What would they be convicted of in which most of Congress isn't complicit?

Impeachment is the sole remedy, and that's off the table. Our reps do not want pondering the crimes of the */Cheney Administration, because our reps do not enjoy immunity from prosecution.

[Soylent Brice]

3. now THAT makes sense

this is why i ask you guys questions. lol

i guess this situation is a bit more screwn than we've seen before. and everyone (in congress) has something to lose, i suppose. thank you!

[rhett o rick]

5. What can we expect from Dem's in Congress that won't even take away Traitor Joe's chairmanships.

Yes we all went out and spent money, time and energy, and we changed the tune slightly, but those running our government aren't up for election.

[asjr]

6. I will not put on my tinfoil hat this morning.

It has been too tight for too long. But, and this is a big but, is there any way the International Court is laying the groundwork for crimes of this administration? If so it could be that is the reason no one thinks the new administration will convict them? It's not as if any of them could hide.

[Soylent Brice]

9. i can't find anything that would suggest

that any international court is even remotely considering measures agains them. i think the world is execting us to either:

A. clean up our own mess, and issue real judtice

or

B. do what we always do and sweep it under the rug again.

[NeedleCast]

8. The answer is a lot simpler than that

The US is still a strong enough power in the world that our leaders don't have to worry about criminal prosecution. China, Russia and several other nations share this sort of power.

[Soylent Brice]

10. i don't know.

just reading that made me angry. the fact that everyone knows that you can get away with shit as long as you're the "leader" of a powerful country is a slap in the face to the people.

that's why i'm torn. i'm tired of this "i have immunity because i happen to be the leader(stole an election(s))bullshit."

when does it end? at what point do we draw the line and stand up? i mean, we fought for our independence as a nation because of taxes, and tyranny. even a monarch had the decency to leave habeas corpus in place. they nearly bankrupted us morally and financially. where the hell does it end???

[CrispyQ]

12. I'm a pessimist.

They will not be convicted & We the People will not get what we want.

I think Obama has much more integrity than McCain, but I'm not kidding myself that We the People are going to get anything close to what we need, much less what we want. I voted for Obama because I feared McCain was itching to start more wars & worse, to nuke someone. We are not going to get single payer health care. We are not going to get good paying jobs back. We are not going to get a New Deal to rebuild our infrastructure. We are not going to get a new green economy. No matter how good Obama's intentions, the corporate behemoth is too fucking powerful. It will have to fail, completely, totally, before any real reform can be made & by then our country will be so fucking broke & broken it will take decades to rebuild, if we ever can.

Just my pessimistic opinion. x(

[Soylent Brice]

13. i find it ironic

that you have a peace sign as your avatar, but are as pessimistic about the Obama administration as you are.

as an advocate for peace, that takes a plethora of patience, and optimism.

i hear what you're saying, but is it possible to think that maybe the last eight years are the cause for you being so jaded?

people don't want to just hope for a better future anymore, they want to make it a reality. i think the last 8 years have been a rude awakening for a lot of people.

i expect a lot of good things in the next few years. it may not be everything i want or hope for, obviously and realistically speaking, but it will be a far cry from the same stupid shit we've seen in the last decade.

keep the faith. optimism is a good thing. try watching this:

http://www.thesecret.tv/

[CrispyQ]

14. It's been 30 years, not eight.

The past eight have just been an incredible acceleration of the ideology & policies that were put in place during Reagan.

I'm not pessimistic about the Obama administration, but rather about the state of the human collective. Every hundred years or so we fight this fight. There's always some group that's willing to trod on everyone else to grab more than their fair share. It's depressing to read history & see that it's nothing but the same cycle over & over & over again. This cycle is more extreme. We are facing a global economic meltdown, peak oil & ecological collapse.

I have a modicum of hope that Obama can implement some serious change, but the machine is so huge that it's going to take more than his administration to turn it around. It's going to take masses of people renouncing the status quo & changing the way they live. In a another thread, a DUer stated that they are confident that this change is taking place. I hope they're right, but I don't see it.

I'll check out the movie. Blockbuster has it so I won't have to watch it on my computer. And here's a good book for you to check out. "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight" by Thom Hartmann. It's about the human collective living within it's means - living on annual sunlight vs. stores of ancient sunlight. It's also about competitive societies vs cooperative ones.