Should severely mentally-defective people be imprisoned for crimes they commit?

[Lyric]

By "severely," I mean people who obviously and legitimately cannot tell the difference between reality and hallucination, or between right and wrong, and that such illness has been confirmed by a medical doctor. For example, people with severe psychosis (temporary or otherwise,) paranoid schizophrenics, people who are seriously mentally disabled, etc.

[cliffordu]

1. LEAVE PRESIDENT BUSH ALONE, GODDAMMIT!!!!

[MindPilot]

2. No, they should be cared for and treated in an in-patient facility.

Unless they are republicans in which case they are simply not worth the expense or effort.

[noonwitch]

3. It depends on the crime they are convicted of

If they committed murder, they should be confined to a mental hospital for the rest of their lives.

Otherwise, they should serve their sentence in a mental hospital or a prison designed to deal with psychiatric patient inmates. They should receive treatment and the state should try to find medication and other treatments that work for the individual.

[cobalt1999]

4. It goes to the core reason of why we imprison people in the first place.

It's all about keeping society safe from those who would do us harm.

Both a secure mental hospital or prison accomplishes that goal.

The concern many have with the "innocent by insanity and hospital sentence" is what's the guarantee the person won't be out on the streets quickly.

What if they have meds prescribed that eliminate the mental condition? What guarantee do we have the person will take those meds once released?

Obviously a mentally disabled person needs to be in a hospital, but that doesn't mean the potential threat to society should be forgotten either.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. You Mean Changing Existing Law So That They Could Be Imprisoned?

People found to be in such states of mind aren't imprisoned but instead brought to a mental hospital. Are you proposing they go to prison instead?

I think if it is proven that the person truly had no idea what they were doing, that they be confined to a mental institution.

[High Plains]

13. American jails and prisons are already full of mentally ill people.

It's one of the biggest scandals in our prison system, which is essentially one big scandal.

We need more health and mental health care, not more prisons. It's called prevention.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Not To The Degree Referenced In The OP.

Under the terms of the OP, the person would be sent to a mental facility.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. There's a problem with definitions here.

A person can 'know' that something is wrong, but be under a mental compulsion that does not allow him to stop his action. Is he sane?

A person can 'know' that society says something is wrong, but doesn't understand WHY society says it's wrong. Is he sane?

You are aware, aren't you, that 1 of 5 people in prison is clinically insane - but maybe not legally insane. Either the jury couldn't find them insane in the very limited legal definition, or they didn't care and simply want the person punished.

The schizophrenic who is so totally lost in delusion that he "truly had no idea what they were doing" is exceedingly rare.

As it stands now it is the opposite of what you state - the insane make up a huge part of the prison population, and most of them (as well as society) would be better served if they were in secure mental facilities instead of the pen. As long as prison is the primary facility for the insane, we will continue to have people being arrested off the street, serving a couple years, then being dumped back on the street again in an continual cycle of poverty, imprisonment, homelessness and desperation until somebody kills them, they kill themselves, or they die of exposure trying to sleep under a bridge.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. No, There Is No Problem With Definitions. The OP Stated The Definitions Clearly.

I responded to those clear definitions. What you are presenting is a different argument altogether. But to answer your completely new arguments:


"A person can 'know' that something is wrong, but be under a mental compulsion that does not allow him to stop his action. Is he sane?"

Sane enough to go to jail.


"A person can 'know' that society says something is wrong, but doesn't understand WHY society says it's wrong. Is he sane?"

Sane enough to go to jail.


"You are aware, aren't you, that 1 of 5 people in prison is clinically insane - but maybe not legally insane. Either the jury couldn't find them insane in the very limited legal definition, or they didn't care and simply want the person punished."

Sounds like a completely bogus study to me. Have any links to back up this wild assertion?


"The schizophrenic who is so totally lost in delusion that he "truly had no idea what they were doing" is exceedingly rare."

Not as rare as you make it, but it's not that common for a reason. Most people who are that schizophrenic are already in institutions.


"As it stands now it is the opposite of what you state - the insane make up a huge part of the prison population"

Again, do you have any reputable links that support such a claim?


"and most of them (as well as society) would be better served if they were in secure mental facilities instead of the pen."

If they did the crime, and were aware their actions would constitute a crime, then they should do the time.


"As long as prison is the primary facility for the insane, we will continue to have people being arrested off the street, serving a couple years, then being dumped back on the street again in an continual cycle of poverty, imprisonment, homelessness and desperation until somebody kills them, they kill themselves, or they die of exposure trying to sleep under a bridge."

Again, are you just making these things up? Do you have any idea how many mental institutions there are and how many people are in them? Do you have any links or facts from reputable sources to back up your wild claim that prison is the primary facility for the insane? I'm not talking about people with mental problems, I'm talking about INSANE. Can you substantiate your claims?

Thanks.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Your lack of regard for mental illness is

practically a mental illness in itself.

[ContinentalOp]

6. I don't care where you put them.

But if someone has started multiple fires that burned hundreds of thousands of acres, and destroyed millions of dollars of homes, I want them locked up somewhere.

[yurbud]

7. false choice--if they are mentally ill and dangerous, society should be protected from them

but that doesn't necessarily mean prison.

A mental institution where there length of stay depends on the risk they continue to pose to society would be a better choice.

[rug]

8. There is no crime unless there is the requisite mental state.

[Greyhound]

16. For the time being.

Never underestimate the lack of foresight in the Amerikan Sheeple.

[WheelWalker]

9. One person's psychosis is another person's psychedelia

[Warpy]

10. Depends entirely on the mental defect

Retarded people who lack the capacity to understand what they've done need to be confined, at the very least in a halfway house with a structured environment.

Violent mentally ill people should be confined and treated. They can be allowed furloughs with family if they're judged to be stable with treatment, but too many go off their meds when unsupervised to take much of a chance. All the meds we have have terrible side effects and there's no mystery why people voluntarily go off them. We just can't let it happen.

Sociopaths should be confined.

[zorahopkins]

11. Throw Bush and Cheney In JAIL!

ABSOLUTELY!

Bush and Cheney are obviously "severely mentally-defective people".

They should be thrown into jail for the crimes they have committed!!

[ismnotwasm]

12. Mental health facilities

That are clean with proper upkeep, well staffed with those with the expertise to care for such people. Well funded, well regulated and well supported, well protected and well monitored. Where honest and effective evaluations are made for public safety if future release is probable,in a atmosphere that doesn't need to concern itself with funding or "beds". Where workable techniques are applied to avail those who "don't know the difference between right and wrong" if possible can have some sort of hobby or job that is constructive, and not some sort of slave labor. Theapy when needed, as often and as long as needed.

No matter what their "insurance" status is.

[backscatter712]

18. Remember how Reagan shut down all those mental hospitals?

Now all the schizophrenics who were getting treatment are now on the street.

The tragic thing is that if you get these people medication, get them treatment for their illness and get them connected with reality, they're the nicest, coolest people. They don't deserve this. It's because of an illness that they do fucked up things.

[KamaAina]

19. The phrase "mentally defective" is about as current as "Oriental" or "Negro"

"people with severe psychosis (temporary or otherwise,) paranoid schizophrenics," would be described as "people with psychiatric disabilities" while "people who are seriously mentally disabled" would be "people with significant cognitive (or intellectual) disabilities". In the latter instance, self-advocates campaigned for years to get the American Association for Mental Retardation to change its name; it is now the American Association for Intellectial and Developmental Disabilities.

[foxfeet]

20. I'd choose confinement in a secure mental health facility

until they (if ever) are no longer a danger to the community. (Full disclosure: I spent the last twenty years working with people with mental illness who were alleged to be a danger to themselves and/or others.) When I use the term "mental illness" I refer to the biologically-driven illnesses, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizo-affective disorder and psychotic depression.

Our prisons are currently bulging with mentally-ill inmates, who don't receive proper treatment and who are often the victims of prison violence. My state (Washington) doesn't have the option of a court finding of "guilty, but mentally-ill." It really should adopt that model. The currently used "not guilty by reason of insanity" model is dysfunctional and often leaves the judge in the position of sending people to prison, when the offender and the community would be better served by treatment in a secure mental health facility.

The key here is follow-up when the sentence expires or when the person is found no longer to pose a risk to the community. There are currently some "Mentally-ill Offenders" programs in place, but they often lack the necessary oversight. I don't think it unreasonable, especially for severe crimes of violence, for the offender to be required to wear an ankle monitor and to compel medications as necessary.