You can't buy a house on $14 hour

[sandnsea]

Why can't these idiots wake up to the obvious.

Sorry. I should clarify. Debbie Stabenow is on MSNBC talking about the auto industry. They act as if reducing wages to $14 hour is a good thing. Warning! That wage will never go up even if the shareholders dividend does.

[Vickers]

1. You could 18 months ago. n/t

[sandnsea]

2. Actually, no you couldn't n/t

[truedelphi]

5. I think that it depends on what locales you are talking about.

Places in Utah, or Mississippi or other southern states.

Many places, no go though.

[sandnsea]

11. Woohoo! Democrats support the race to the bottom!!!!

What a bunch of fucking idiots. No wonder workers in this country are in such a mess. That is directed at the thread, not you personally.

[natrat]

56. race ? more like accelerating free fall

[Mike 03]

57. You could here in Phoenix. I know of a 22 year old with no credit history, not even

a credit card, and barely employed, who was able to get into a $340,000 new home with no money down.

I know this is not your point, but it is worth noting how ludicrous this situation did become mid-decade.

[LeftyMom]

61. A friend of mine bought a $260K house. She was 19 and worked part time at WalMart

She'd had a car loan and that was all it took to qualify her.

Needless to say she couldn't actually afford the house, but luckily she figured that out while the market was still on it's way up, so the mistake actually netted her $60K, which was enough to move out of state and buy a place she could afford.

[Phred42]

3. You could 20 years ago

[DesertFlower]

4. i was making $18.00 an hour

20 years ago and i couldn't afford a house. of course, i lived in new york. even in places that cost less, i don't think you can.

[we can do it]

6. You Can In Ohio, Probably Michigan Too

[PassingFair]

36. Only because they have been foreclosed on.

Houses available for a song here in Michigan,
only because we are BANKRUPT.

[MarianJack]

7. You Probably can...

...up here in Maine.

[KamaAina]

8. Hell, I could barely buy a *condo* on my $20/hr.

Even then it would probably be "leasehold", a local quirk in which some large landowner keeps title to the property under the building and collects ground rent. :eyes:

[KitchenWitch]

72. Sounds like the situation here with most of the single family tract homes

People own the house but the Irvine Company owns the land...Why people pay 800K and up for this situation is totally beyond me.

Our home is in one of the older neighborhoods in Irvine. We own both the house and the land. And do not have to pay any association fees.

[gollygee]

9. You might be able to in Michigan

It wouldn't be a great house, but I bet you could find something.

[slackmaster]

10. My house payment is about $1,200 per month including tax and insurance

I probably could survive on $14 per hour.

[DesertFlower]

13. that's cutting it close.

what about unexpected repairs? last month i had to replace my water heater. it cost almost $1,000.

[patriotvoice]

41. Home owner's insurance, like AHS: $40 per month. EOM

[Pakhet]

15. my house payment is $804 a month and

I'm barely making it at $14.03 an hour

[sandnsea]

21. $100,000 homes don't even exist

in 99% of the western US and probably 90% of the rest. There might be twenty pockets in the entire country where you can buy a $100,000 home, and not be killed by taxes on the other end like you are in Detroit.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. How much was the CEO's salary reduced? n/t

[gollygee]

14. That's the best question

It's always about people on the bottom sacrificing, never about the people who could actually afford to sacrifice a bit giving anything up.

[ColbertWatcher]

18. Yup, taking all their pennies when every penny counts ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4485614&mesg_id=4485614

[Idealism]

16. What the fuck are you all talking about

Where can you afford a house on $32,000 a year?! Thats even before taxes, wake up!

[sandnsea]

17. I get $29,120

$14 x 40 x 52.

[SoCalDem]

55. The 40-hr full-time jobs are going bye-bye

around here 30 is the "new full time"..and of course the benefits package usually kicks it at 36..:grr:

Many companies go with part time...20 hr minimum..and keep employees sitting by the phone, praying that somoene will call them in for an extra shift..or the pile on two or three 20-hr a week part time jobs, and have no life :(

[sandnsea]

59. And that's another issue

But look at this thread. No wonder we're in such a mess. Democrats believe this shit. And we mock Joe the Plumber. *sigh*

[gollygee]

19. If you don't mind a small house

You can get a decent small house in my part of Michigan for $75k or less. Here's an example: http://tinyurl.com/6dllyd

Now if the economy ever picks up, that might not be the case again. But I bet you could find something cheaper than that even if you looked.

[sandnsea]

23. That would cost $130,000 where I live

and what are the taxes in Kalamazoo? And how much repair will that house need to be livable?

[gollygee]

25. You could find a house that was livable for even less than that right now

It's because of how bad the local economy is. There are lots of houses going dirt cheap. Cheaper than that even if you look.

I don't live within the city limits so I'm not up on their taxes.

[Idealism]

24. That is assuming you can get someone to lend to you

Your mortgate is ideally 1/3rd of your take home pay, it can be tough finding a mortgage under $800 dollars a month

[gollygee]

26. Yes and you'd probably have mortgage insurance that would make it harder

But you can find a house really cheap in areas that have been hit very hard by the recession because of the economic climate.

[Idealism]

27. Reason they've been hit hard is because you can't get a job in those areas, too

Problem is when the value of real estate goes up, the workers wages won't increase accordingly. So we are stuck in the same problem we have had in this country since the 70s: real wages not increasing with inflation making it harder to afford even the basic things in life

[gollygee]

28. Absolutely

It's a good scam. Take away the auto plant. Take away the auto supplier plants. People move out and houses are dirt cheap. Now drop the wages of the few auto suppliers still in the area - they aren't in a position to move. At least houses are cheap. Well, actually, they get hit by that too. I've known lots of people who have lost their jobs but can't afford to move out because the $150k house they bought won't even likely sell at $100k and they can't afford to keep paying the mortgage AND rent where they move to.

[Idealism]

31. Its the new age ponzi scheme ~_~

[likesmountains 52]

66. That's a $300,000 home where I live. I was fortunate enough to get a home in 1985.

I make a good salary, but could never afford to buy a home here now.

[amandabeech]

67. Isn't the Kalamazoo Promise, for which this house is qualified,

a student aid package for college?

Is my memory correct?

[gollygee]

68. Free college tuition to any Michigan state university

and some universities throw in room and board to attract them. Yeah, that's worth something too.

[amandabeech]

73. It sure is worth something! GO BLUE!!!!

I'm from a tiny town north of Muskegon and I'm part of the UM Class of '77.

My mom as well as other relatives and friends live up that way.

I'll be flying out in a week on Northworst. Or is it Delta now?

[JVS]

30. 30 year mortgage on this place that costs $39,000

I think you could swing that on $32,000/year

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?lid=1104618901&fhadv=294888&fhv=1

[Idealism]

33. Who knows how long thats been on market for

The average home by me takes a year to sell in my community.
Also I dont really want something build in almost 100 years ago personally. But I guess with 32k a year you get what you can, only problem is not everyone lives in detroit that works in the auto industry

[hfojvt]

69. I have to laugh at this

If I made $32,000 a year I would think I was rich. As far as houses go, I looked at some brand new houses that were priced at $100,000. They were small, and on small lots, and had no basements or driveways. I wouldn't pay $20,000 for them, brand new or not. Plus they were in a little nothing suburb with basically no shopping or services within five miles. Here I have a double lot, fenced and treed, and with libraries, grocery stores and jobs that I can walk to.

$32,000 is just so poor :eyes: About 30% of households in the US make less than $32,000 a year - and those are households - sometimes with multiple earners.

[hfojvt]

65. lots of places in Kansas and Iowa

I don't know about the rest of the world, and things have probably gone up since I house-hunted. My house, which I closed on November 2001 cost $35,000 and I looked at half a dozen houses in this town that were $40,000 and under even some that were $15,000 (many of those were renter-occupied).

[lumberjack_jeff]

71. Detroit, actually.

http://livingchoices.com/detail.aspx?LID=101-537592845&refer=homegain&sid=11DB135C7381

$30,000.

[deadmessengers]

20. You can here in Georgia.

I know plenty of homeowners making around that much. It won't buy a McMansion, but homeownership at that wage is certainly possible around here.

[Sanctified]

22. You can't buy one on $14 with no savings.

But you certainly can if you have a nice chunck of change in savings.

[JVS]

29. In Detroit you could.

[slackmaster]

32. The problem with those low-priced houses in Detroit is high taxes and high insurance

I've seen houses for under $10K, but the property tax is $6K per year and insurance is another $6K.

[varelse]

44. How easy is it to find a "stable" job in Detroit that pays $14/hr or more?

Often, the $14/hr jobs aren't in the same region as the "bargain rate" houses :(

[slackmaster]

49. Nearly impossible, I imagine

That's why those houses are priced so low.

[gollygee]

50. No such thing as job stability anymore

I remember when we had a GM plant in town. "If you have a job at GM, you have a job for life." That was a long time ago.

[tammywammy]

34. Yes you can

I make $14/hr and I bought a house the summer of 2007. :shrug:


edited to add, it also depends on the cost of housing where you live. I bought a 1951 2 bedroom, 1 bath for a total of $59,000. I only had the $1000 to put in escrow, no other money down. It was a foreclosure, but the tax appraised value is $71,000.

[misanthrope]

35. Then maybe housing is outpriced...

...the expectations of the American public in regard to cost and size in homes is way, way out of whack.

Seems to me the adjustment needs to be in what people are asking for homes. I see quarter million dollar price tags on some pretty average houses that shouldn't be nearly that much.

[4lbs]

37. $14.00 an hour is $28,000 per year based on 2000 hours annually.

40 hour work week * 50 weeks a year = 2000 hours a year

It's around $2300 a month gross income.

After taxes that often comes out to about $1400 per month take home.

If a couple both earn about $14.00 per hour, they could probably afford to buy a house on a 30 year fixed-rate and make the payments, as long as the house wasn't more than $200,000. Preferably, it would be $150,000 to $180,000.

[sandnsea]

38. Good union jobs that support a family

That's what this country was based on. Not barely over burger flipper where it takes two people to barely make ends meet.

[gollygee]

39. Absolutely

The point isn't that people could possibly survive (with a big struggle), the point is that manufacturing jobs used to give people a secure life, and they don't anymore.

And the two-working-people scenario doesn't account for having a family and having to take time off and/or pay for childcare. People used to work in auto plants and make enough money to buy a house, buy a car, go on an inexpensive family vacation a year, and have a good and secure life. But there are people who act like that is an unreasonable expectation.

[sandnsea]

40. This thread makes me puke

I can't believe there are so many so-called Democrats who don't get it.

[Idealism]

46. So I guess the only chance we have in this country is if we're married?

Thats great, got to have two people working together just to afford a piece of property

[gollygee]

47. And don't have kids

Cut $7 to $10 off that second $14 an hour for childcare.

[Idealism]

48. Sounds like the American Dream to me

What a fucking joke

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

42. $14 an hour? A house, well maybe

but not a house, with decent healthcare, and a car, insurance and gas, and heat for the house, and food, and a future for your children, and a retirement for yourself, not so much.

[baldguy]

43. Come to Buffalo

[taught_me_patience]

45. You can

if you and your spouse work for $14/hr. $14/hr is not meant for a single worker to afford a house.

[sandnsea]

51. A union job most certainly used to

Workers used to expect to be able to buy a home, go to the doctor, save for their kids' college, take a vacation -- and not need food stamps or energy assistance while they did it. All on one income. The only reason they can't is because shareholders have taken their share, and only paid 15% tax on it.

[taught_me_patience]

52. We live in an era where 2 people have to work

It's been that way for over 25 years now. Things are not going back to the way they were. People need to realize that and either, move to a cheaper city where $14/hr can buy a house or move to a city where they can earn more thatn $14/hr. I live in a city where $30/hr couldn't buy a house. Those are the facts of life.

[sandnsea]

53. Because of Joe the Plumber mentality

which this board is apparently full of.

[taught_me_patience]

63. Seriously?

Do you believe that every single wage earner deserves to earn enough to own a house? The idea is completely ludicrous. Society has evolved to a point where a household typically needs to wage earners to afford owning a house. Typically, over the course of history, the median price of a home in a certain area will be affordable to the median wage earner in that area. If median wages in an area are $14/hr per person, then a couple making $28/hr will be able to afford a house in that area. Home prices have gotten a bit out of whack in recent years, but will probably revert back to that historical trend. If you are making $14/hr and can't afford a house, then what is the problem with looking for an apartment? Or looking for a run down home that can be fixed up over time? What is so bad about this?

[depakid]

54. That's less than the minimum wage in Australia

In its July 2008 general Wage-Setting Decision, the Commission has increased the standard Federal Minimum Wage (FMW) and all Australian Pay and Classification Scales (Pay Scales) by $21.66 per week. The standard FMW has increased from $13.74 to $14.31 per hour.

General Wage-Setting Decision 2008 has two main elements:

* an increase of $21.66 per week ($0.57 per hour) to the standard Federal Minimum Wage (FMW) bringing the weekly rate to $543.78. The standard FMW increases from $13.74 to $14.31 per hour; and
* an increase of approximately $21.66 per week ($0.57 per hour) for adult rates of pay in Australian Pay and Classification Scales (Pay Scales).

The decision takes effect from the first pay period on or after 1 October 2008.

http://www.fairpay.gov.au/fairpay/WageSettingDecisions/General/2008/2008decision.htm

[upi402]

58. you, a spouse, and 2.2 kids- all at $14/hour = no problem!

They want to nix unions and child labor laws and minimum wage too.

And don't even question our medical! We have THE WORST medical system, even compared to 3rd world countries I've been to and used. Theirs is superior to ours by far. I'm so tired of trying to explain that we DO NOT have the best medical services in the US.

It's not going to change either, now that we have Clinton #2 but without magical dot com boom.
Not hopeful anymore. What the hell did we win after all?

[dysfunctional press]

60. you can in detroit.

nt

[hfojvt]

62. huh? I bought my house on $10.69 an hour, working part-time

and I am a single person buying a three bedroom house. Or I was, I paid for it a few years ago. Of course, it helped to pay it off that I worked full time from May 2004 until October 2006.

Just saying, it would have been much easier to pay for this house if I had a partner with a job.

Stabenow is right. 50,000 jobs paying $14 an hour is much better than losing those 50,000 jobs.

[sandnsea]

74. What's the matter with Kansas

You need to google and see what's going on in the rest of the country. So do a lot of people in this thread. And if the unions are pushed down to $14 hr, it won't be long until your $10.69 is $6.55. But it won't matter to you because you're fine.

[Cleita]

64. IMHO housing is way overpriced.

One of the things no one mentions here, but part of the recovery from the Depression was the housing boom after WWII which was subsidized by the GI bill and other government programs that made home ownership affordable so that the average working class family could own a home. I went to school with kids who were thought of as being poor but whose parents still owned their homes. Hardly anyone lived in apartments except in very large cities or if they were unmarried with no children. Shelter is one of our basic needs and at that time our Presidents recognized that they needed to do what was necessary to meet those basic needs. After Eisenhower, no President has done anything to guarantee this.

[varelse]

70. I should have posted in support earlier

please count me in as one who does "get it" and as a supporter of your post.