if you blame reid for the lieberman vote, you don't understand two things:

[onenote]

the culture of the United States Senate and the limited "power" of the majority leader.

I wish that the caucus had stripped lieberman of his HSC committee and offered him some lesser chairmanship instead. But I can't say I'm all that surprised at the result.

First, the Senate is one of the world's most exclusive "clubs" and the relationships between and among them defy logic sometimes. For example, it was just reported how Joe Biden, while campaigning in North Carolina, reached out to Jesse Helms' widow to see how she was doing and to express to her how much he misses Jesse. In 2001, the Democrats welcomed Jim Jeffords with open arms, giving him a committee chair and a couple of other plum committee assignments, notwithstanding the fact that he had endorsed chimpy in the presidential election and had voted with the repubs 75 percent of the time before he became an independent. Close personal friendships among senators often cross party lines. And seniority rules in the Senate in a way that's hard to fathom from the outside (and Jeffords was allowed by the Democrats to retain all of the seniority he'd accumulated as a republican when he entered the Democratic caucus). So, it shouldn't come as a total shock that Lieberman, who has more seniority than 2/3rds of the Democrats in the Senate, was able to hang on.

Second, for those that are condemning Reid for allowing Lieberman to keep his chairmanship, how would you have had him prevent the result. What leverage in terms of "strongarming" the caucus did Reid have, given the reports that an overwhelming majority of the caucus voted, in a secret ballot, to allow lieberman to keep his chairmanship? Threaten to take away their committee chairs? Well, that would require a vote of the caucus and if they weren't going to vote to take away lieberman's chair, what makes you think they were going to vote to take away the chair of anyone who supported lieberman?

The result sucks, no question. But it shouldn't come as a suprise, nor can "blame" be laid at any single person's feet -- its institutional

[aquart]

1. I blame the Senate "club."

And the impulse to club them all is quite strong right now.

[LittleApple81]

2. So we are paying them to be members OF A FUGGING CLUB that doesn't work for us!!!! Good to know. nt

[onenote]

3. as it always has been

If you are just finding this out, you haven't been paying attention in the past.

[LittleApple81]

4. I still love the idea of what the US is supposed to be. But I don't even live in the US

anymore, so I shouldn't get so upset. There is nothing I can do, so I won't. Too much disappointment. I will just watch, like going to a bullfight. And the only time I went to a bullfight I ended up being in favor of the bull and against the human that abused it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. The system is corrupt and needs "change" instead of platitudes.

[onenote]

6. Did I offer "platitudes"? I just offered an explanation of how it works up there

I also said that I wished for a different result.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. I was referring to the Dem "leaders" who talk about "change" and deliver the SOS.

[onenote]

9. ah. okay.

[RiverStone]

8. Club aside - there is no rationalization for NOT representing the will of the electorate...

Call it institutional, call it whatever.

It is still unequivocally a fuck up.

That's what I call it.

[LynneSin]

10. Here's some odd things I found while living in Delaware

There is a strong relationship between Biden, Carper and our lone representative - Republican Mike Castle.

Mike Castle is the one republican who could easily give Biden or Carper a run for their money in a senate run and yet he won't run against them. And in return I have never seen Carper or Biden ever actively campaign for the democrat running against Castle.

I'd really be upset about this but thing is - Castle is pretty moderate and I figured there were better battles to fight elsewhere.

[Bobbie Jo]

11. Simple...lead by example. No "strongarm" required. nt