DUers SPEAK OUT: Is keeping Traitor Joementum a betrayal of what the Democratic Party is supposed

[tom_paine]

to be about..THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?!?

Let us speak seriously here, fellow DUers. President Obama has not even taken office. The person who we have to look to in Harry Reid, one of our troubling Nancy Pelosi Democrats.

We also have to look a little to Obama. By all accounts, his Unity strategy includes keeping Traitor Joementum. I must confess to being exasperated a bit with him too, if this is true.

Because WE DUers KNOW THE BUSHIES TAKE THAT AS A SIGN OF LIBERAL WEAKNESS AND THEY LAUGH THEIR ASSES OFF AT US. HOW CAN OBAMA NOT KNOW THIS?

WE KNOW HOW THE BUSHIES VIEW BIPARTISANSHIP BECAUSE THEY TOLD US AND THEY ARE PREAPRING THEIR DATE RAPE KIT AS WE SPEAK.

I think it's pretty clear how I'm voting in my own poll...

:patriot:

[amdezurik]

1. pissed but not VERY pissed, not undecided either

[wryter2000]

2. Change Nancy Pelosi to Harry Reid and I might be able to answer

Nancy Pelosi is in the other house of Congress.

[tom_paine]

11. I am well aware Nancy Pelosi has nothing to do with it. She is the "leader" of the Nancy Pelosi

Democrats in both House and Senate, I believe.

A Nancy Pelosi Democrat can be found anywhere, House, Senate, bureaucracy... though I hope VERY few are to be found in the coming Obama administration.

A Nancy Pelosi Democrat is one which, I believe, has a basic contempt for those they rule, favoring the money donors and not the people in a BIG way. A Nancy Pelosi Democrat has few principles, I believe, besides making sure they keep farting through silk and their kids and grandkids are farting through silk while ours are playing Mad Max outside, if they are unlucky enough not to get one of the few jobs as Pelosi Family Butler, Maid or Gardener with a bunkhouse inside the compound.

Nancy Pelosi Demorats, I am sad to say, are legion in our Party, and it is something we will have to address if we want Obama to be an FDR.

He needs a strong smart FDR-type Congress to work with and to trim his excesses or help fix to his failngs.

What we DON'T NEED are more jellyfish Harry Reids, one of our Democratic Senatorial Nancy Pelosi Democrats.

I think I have made myself clear.

Yes, I know Nancy had zero to do with today's vote.

[endarkenment]

33. Poll failed. Please try again.

Harry Reid is responsible for the mess that happened today. There is more than enough to blame Pelosi for that she actually deserves the blame for without piling Reid's crap onto her plate too.

[tom_paine]

46. Clueless, much? See post #11. Then be ashamed that you are so slow on the uptake.

Or perhaps you'd like to repeat the same tired and irrelevant point again.

I have no problem with disagreeing viewpoints. I have a problem with IGNORANCE.

If you're going to try to be a smart-ass, you might want to make sure you say something witty, not ignorant and idiotic, as well as debunked hours ago.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Plus, to add to your ignorance, a poll is failed when it elicits dozens of productive comments and inetersting debate (unlike your sad efforts) and garners 100+ votes after less than 10 hours?

:rofl:

Grasp at straws much?



"I am bleeding profusely from the face...making me the victor."

:rofl:

[endarkenment]

61. You are a shameless post-editing git.

Too bad DU doesn't have an edit history. Your poll failed. Blame Harry for what Harry did.

[tom_paine]

62. What the hell are talking about, Looney?

Wow, I do believe in over seven years at DU I have never had cause to call someone a "looney".

Open that dribbling piehole of yours one more time to explain, exactly what the fuck you could possibly mean by that last post, Smeg?

Are you insinuating that I changed the poll to make it something it isn't?

That I briefly considered soliciting recs, then thought it tasteless and removed it? Oh yeah, BIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGG CONSPIRACY. :rofl: What a moran! What an eskimo-pie head! What a maroon! :rofl:

Message to Looney Douchebag: You're an idiot.

But please, go ahead Do tell. Share the Mind of a Moron with the group. :rofl:

How does a poll fail, you mentally challenged drooling fool?

Got lots of votes, personally I could give a shit if people voted with me or not... and it generated lots of discussion. Which is the purpose of a poll. What are you, twelve years old?

Most of the discussion was good.

Then there's your asinine moronic incomprehensible drivel.

Please, do explain yourself, Pee Wee.

:rofl:

[endarkenment]

63. Did you change the poll? yes of course you did

you edited the wording so that you could call everyone who pointed out that this had nothing to do with Pelosi 'stupid'. You are a dishonest post-editing git.

[tom_paine]

64. Be specific, Nutsy. If I did such it was unintentional.

But of course, in Nut World, there's no such thing as unintentional.

Do I have to ask again, Looney Tunes? BE SPECIFIC!

I honestly don't know exactly what you are talking about, so how can I respond unless I know SPECIFICALLY what you mean?

How could I change the wording specifically to flip the meaning 100% like that?

Be specific, Looney.

Fucking stupid nutjob asshole.

BE SPECIFIC, IDIOT.

Can I make myself any more clear, Looney? Please do tell...

By the way, I always do polls like that. Because sometimes my wording is unclear or a couple polls I once posted where I mistakenly DID flip the meanings around by mistake. The Polls sank like rocks because people were confused and didn't respond.

That didn't happen here, Nutsy.

I was editing and responding early on. Fixing the poll and clarifying the wording as people's questions came in. My intent was the same all the way through. I know Pelosi had nothing to do with the Senate vote, but the "Nancy Pelosi Democrats" I was always consistent about.

I'll say it again:

You're an idiot. What are you, one of Nancy's Congressional Aides or something?

Why wouldn't that surprise me?

:rofl:

Idiot. Never seen someone so stupid in seven years on DU. No doubt. What was that incorrect or improper wording up for (whatever the hell it was), like five minutes?

Stupid AND frothing at the mouth. that's what you are. Biggest disgrace on DU in SEVEN YEARS that I have been witness to.

A train wreck. Quit while you're ahead, Nutsy.

You deserve contempt. I'm giving it to you.

[endarkenment]

66. See the numerous posts pointing out the problems prior to your edit

at 8.31. You then edited your poll and started calling everyone who had pointed out the problem 'stupid'. Nice work.

[tom_paine]

68. FINALLY. Nutsy gets to the point! Incorrect analysis, but at least you FINALLY made a point.

Yes, I do wish there was an editing record here.

And even IF the sequence of the events was such that you say, my intent was clear I will will bet the record shows that whatever the specific edit (I did a couple dozen of them, tweaking and fixing spelling, clarifying shit as I always do) it didn't flip the overall meaning of "Nancy Pelosi Democrat" nor did I EVER intend to say that Pelosi herself had ANYTHING to do with the Lieberman vote.

But YOU, Nutsy, took a perfectly innocent thing, not to mention the fact that it is only in your fevered brain that the minor edit, whatever the hell it was that has your kiddie panties in a bunch, is this tremendous deception. :tinfoilhat:

That you waste your time and mine. That some insane sense of "justice" has lead you to just be a big asshole again and again and again.

After seven years of understanding Freepers, and your bullheaded persona is not really much different from theirs, I know that whatever "outrage gland" of yours MUST be spilled and you MUST have the last word, Nutsy.

So I give it to you freely. Actually, I have wasted more than enough of my time on the likes of you.

You have no idea what a wonderful three days I am about to have. They say living well is the best revenge. I'll be loving life these next three days, as I do most days only MORE, and think upon you not ONCE during them, idiot.

Yes, indeed. Personal serenity and living well ARE the best revenge.

Post one more time. I won't ever see it. Rant and rave and gnash your teeth. Call me a name or two. I like "git" by the way. That's a good one. Accuse me all you want of your feverish fantasies.

:rofl:

'Bye Nutsy. :hi:

Welcome to ignore...

[endarkenment]

3. Pelosi has fuck all to do with this.

Poll: Clueless Fail.

[tom_paine]

12. WRONG. See post #11.

[Idealism]

4. Probably should've reworded your choices a bit

[mcg]

28. This is a push poll. nt

[tom_paine]

29. It's a pissed poll. Oh my yes it is and I am not ashamed to say it.

But even given that, do you really think the results would be that much different if the poll was worded to your exacting specifications?

That suddenly because I shifted the words around to neutrality, that suddenly dozens would rethink their rash decision and rush to supprt our brave Nancy Pelosi Democrats?

:rofl:

Post your own poll then. See if the outcome is different.

:rofl:

[maddezmom]

5. I'm pretty pissed but what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with this?

Anyway, it was up to the Dem Senators and Obama. I'm hoping there is a good reason we don't yet know why they decided to keep him on HLS.

[tom_paine]

13. See post #11.

[Bicoastal]

6. Nice push-polling, Zogby.

:eyes:

[tom_paine]

14. Who the fuck are you, the Thought Police?

[Bicoastal]

17. Just expressing my opinion, same as you.

Don't get your undies in a twist.

[tom_paine]

19. Opinions exchanged...untwisting undies. Whew! The ol' sack needed a little movement to get some

air down there.

Thanks.

:hi:

You don't have to vote in the poll, you know.

[Bicoastal]

21. I didn't. But I thought you and others might want to know how I felt about it.

:P

[tom_paine]

23. Cool beans. No harm, no foul. Here's something we can both agree on:

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you and may posterity forget that ye were once our countrymen."
--Samuel Adams

FReikorpsers GO HOME!

[Usrename]

54. Lieberman fan?

:shrug:

[onehandle]

7. Who am I to question Obama? nt

[bvar22]

41. An American?

A citizen?

One of "The People"?


or maybe not.

[Greyhound]

8. Pissed, but not surprised. n/t

[madrchsod]

9. joey does`t have a choice...he either decides to be a democrat

or he`s on the other side looking in. the folks back home won`t be happy when he does`t bring home the bacon

[Critters2]

39. He spent the whole damn campaign deciding not to be a Democrat.

When does this "outside looking in" thing begin?

[awoke_in_2003]

55. "or he`s on the other side looking in"

Yeah, because then the Senate democrats will REALLY show him and not let him eat with them at lunch :sarcasm:

[MindPilot]

10. The OP refers to "Nacny Pelosi Democrats" not Pelosi herself.

Kinda like a "DLC Democrat" or a "Goldwater Republican".

And yeah, let's get Lieberman "off the table" and out the door.

[tom_paine]

16. The Voice of Common Sense! Thank You!

I was beginning to think the two weeks of victory partying :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: had turned DU "mentally challenged".

[MindPilot]

24. I hear ya! I get so frustrated with people who don't take an instant

to try to comprehend what someone wrote, but they have half-an-hour to write a dissertation about what you *really* meant to say.

[tom_paine]

25. What can I say but nod agreement?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[awoke_in_2003]

56. Yeah, but Nancy is part of the Senate

Just kidding :hide:

[tom_paine]

59. LOL. n/t

[Aptastik]

15. I think they were kinda backed into a corner

Not to put my head in the lion's mouth, especially with a low post count, but I think they really had no choice. I mean, when Obama said they should keep Lieberman in the caucus and let him retain his chairmanship, if they didn't, the Democratic caucus would come off looking petulant and divisive.

If one's to be mad at anyone here, it should be Obama, who could have simply said it was the business of the Senate Democrats, of which, he was no longer a part. By calling on them to concede to Lieberman, he pretty much forced their hand.

Although it is rather telling who Lieberman's biggest supports were, Salazaar, Nelson, Carper

Even if we pick up 60 now, we'll still have to horse trade with the right wing of this party to get cloture motions...

[tom_paine]

18. You articulate your position well, and I can certainly see that view prevailing.

Politics is a cautious business, usually. (Bushies not included because they aren't really Americans, and not all Republicans are Bushies, not even close)

I almsot voted "wait and see" myself.

But I was hoping for some change, you know?

:shrug: :wtf:

[Gold Metal Flake]

20. Lieberman uses his chairmanship to protect Bush.

Now, Democrats protect Lieberman. One degree of separation.

How would Jefferson, Madison, Jay and Paine feel about this?

[tom_paine]

22. That is so very well said, it deserves it's own OP. Brief and to the point.

Cuts right to the heart of one of my major long-term concerns.

[awoke_in_2003]

57. We can problably take your post one step further...

if Obama even looks at someone funny, Joe has the power to start investigations. Of course that won't happen, he will give Obama the same amount of respect that he did Bush. (Note: anyone who believes that last sentence please ping me, I have a bridge for sale).

[indepat]

26. Almost as criminal as Nancy's taking impeachment off the table

:P

[gravity]

27. Can we stop with the excessive fear from the GOP

They don't have any power, and their influence on policy is determined by us.

[MindPilot]

30. Maybe, just maybe, Obama will dissolve "Homeland Security'

and Lieberman will fade into obscurity along with his committee and all that Orwellian crap that goes with it.

I swear I never want to hear the word "homeland" again.

[tom_paine]

31. Yeah, that would be nice...

(sigh)

[EndElectoral]

32. Progressives work hard to get Dem's elected, and we always pander to the Center. Very frustrated.

[tom_paine]

35. Yep. n/t

[Just-plain-Kathy]

34. I am convinced that our more powerful dem leaders are in cahoots with...

...the Bush crime family. I am so sick of this. :puke:

[Ladyhawk]

36. I'm more convinced that anyone who makes it into power is

backed by the already powerful. I had about six weeks of hope that I was wrong, but leading indicators seem to point to the conclusion that Washington doesn't give a rip about us. We'll see.

[freestyle]

37. Can we see it as a victory for knowing how to count?

If we win AK, GA, and MN, we can get to 60, with Lieberman. Yes he betrayed the Democratic Party, said foul things about Obama, yadda, yadda, yadda. But, McCain lost, the Republican Party lost, and it is an opportunity for significant change.

The Status of Forces Agreement puts the government of Iraq on record as wanting us out. Lieberman's support, or not, of the war will not have a major policy impact. The people of Connecticut can decide what to do with Joe Lieberman in four years. John McCain is done politically. Lieberman tried to cause damage, and failed. He can remain in the Democratic Caucus damaged and chastened, but possibly getting us over the hump on filibusters for the next two years, or he can go the Republican side and be a constant obstacle. I choose keeping him closer.

If Joe lifts a finger to help any other Republicans, then there is always another chance to banish him to the hinterlands. I'm sure Lieberman knows that he is on thin ice.

[bvar22]

43. The "60 vote majority" is a myth and an excuse.

The Republicans NEVER needed a 60 vote majority to ram through the most fascist agenda this country has ever seen.

What the Democrats NEEDED was a 1 vote majority.
That gives them the Committee Chairs and the Agenda.
Do you not remember Campaign 2006?


Sooo, how has that worked out?
The Republicans got EVERYTHING they wanted, while the Democrats invented a new excuse.

[arikara]

47. Bingo!

I was wondering when someone was going to recognize this. As soon as the dems got a president and a majority in congress and senate, the meme changed to how vital it is to have 60 in the senate. Ludicrous.

Totally ridiculous. Spineless, dishonest and at worst complicit. I have lots of hope yet for Obama, but not much faith on most of the useless corporate money and power grubbing congress and senate. Dems have the power now and obviously have no intention of using it except to help the good ol' boys.

[Hydra]

38. Thanks for documenting this, Tom

That seems like all we can do- document how we were not for the war, how we didn't buy the lies, how we didn't support the torture, how we saw what happened during Katrina, that we saw the fraud in 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006...and even in 2008, How we didn't support the bailout...

It seems like all we can do is show that we weren't all sold on the BS.

[Edweird]

40. Pelosi, Reid, Lieberman all failures. They should be removed.

[Hubert Flottz]

42. Balls are off the table!

[MelissaB]

44. Color me pissed.

[Dukkha]

45. the cowards are still in charge

how much longer will we put up with these spineless wimps? If there's one thing we can learn from the enemy is to have zero tolerance to traitors.

[question everything]

48. What does Nancy Pelosi have to do with it?

I thought that only senators voted?

But that's OK. DU has been a place for people to pour venom and to attack each others and others. So if people want to spill their anger at Pelosi and Lieberman and, soon, at Obama for - gasp - appointing people from the Clinton era, go ahead, if it makes you feel good. All the while, post in capital and bold letters. That will show them.

[tom_paine]

58. Jesus H. Christ on a Jumped-Up Pogo Stick! Did DU just drink a whole lot of stupid recently?

Read post #11. And post #10.

That is one clueless post you just made, question everything.

Sorry, but in this particular case, that's how I feel. Normally I respect and enjoy most of your posts, question everything. But you "screwed the pooch" on this one.

Also, it might be a good idea to read the posts on a thread before you post to it yourself.

[baldguy]

49. Its also poor strategy.

[Ishoutandscream2]

50. Pissed, but sadly, not surprised

Sigh.

[rockymountaindem]

51. I'm not pleased with the outcome but I don't see an alternative

I mean, letting him stay doesn't say much for party discipline. However, considering that we've just picked up a bunch of Senate seats (so many that they're still comin' in), it doesn't make sense to go about creating a new Republican in that body by alienating him completely. It's better to have him with us sometimes than never. I just hope that from now on the other Dems won't trust him at all. Otherwise, I think this is just another matter of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer (as hackneyed as that phrase is).

[Usrename]

52. It's much worse than that.

Under the UN Convention Against Torture, the leadership is OBLIGATED to go after war criminals and torturers and hold them accountable.

Failure to hound them down and impose the full force of the law is another separate crime.

Nancy Pelosi is becomming a war criminal in her own right, by covering up the crimes of the administration.

She is OBLIGED, both morally and under international law, to do whatever is in her power to bring about justice.

Article 12

Each State Party shall ensure that its competent authorities proceed to a prompt and impartial investigation, wherever there is reasonable ground to believe that an act of torture has been committee in any territory under its jurisdiction.

Article 13

Each State Party shall ensure that any individual who alleges he has been subjected to torture in any territory under its jurisdiction has the right to complain to and to have his case promptly and impartially examined its competent authorities. Steps shall be taken to ensure that the complainant and witnesses are protected against all ill-treatment or intimidation as a consequence of his complaint or any evidence given.

Article 14

Each State Party shall ensure in its legal system that the victim of an act of torture obtains redress and has an enforceable right to fair and adequate compensation including the means for as full rehabilitation as possible. In the event of the death of the victim as a result of an act of torture, his dependents shall be entitled to compensation.
Nothing in this article shall affect any right of the victim or other person to compensation which may exist under national law.

Article 15

Each State Party shall ensure that any statement which is established to have been made as a result of torture shall not be invoked as evidence in any proceedings, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made.

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
Text

The statements made by KLM under waterboarding were used as evidence in the official 9/11 Commission Report.

That's another crime, in and of itself. None of the commissioners has stepped forward to denounce the report, so as far as I can tell they can also be charged.

[fascisthunter]

53. Never Rationalize Away Your Principles

especially because you work for us!

[KoKo]

60. ahh...kick....I like to see if there are some DU'ers who

still answer polls.

[opihimoimoi]

65. Joe is a fucked up human....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7893670&mesg_id=7893670

[LSdemocrat]

67. With all the problems this country has, sticking it to Lieberman ranks pretty low on the list

I'd have voted to kick him out, but I'd rather spend time discussing real issues that are burdening ordinary people.