I'm feeling confused --- who won the election?

[bean fidhleir]

Am I just not hearing all the good news? It seems like every time I surface and hear anything, I get another big hit of deja vu. There doesn't seem to be any "change" happening at all, unless we count going back to a DLC-/GOP-controlled administration as being "change" (which I definitely do not!).

If I'm just not hearing all the good news, could someone bring me up to speed?

If there isn't any good news, then - who won the election?

[tekisui]

1. Try a little nuance.

Things are not so black and white.

[bean fidhleir]

2. So you're saying there IS some good news?

Or that I should go out an buy some rose-color glasses?

If there is some good news, how about sharing it?

[tekisui]

14. The war criminals are out in two months.

The Democrats will have strong majorities, and they are going to work their asses off to succeed at fixing the shit we are in.

[bean fidhleir]

17. What makes you think so? They didn't do it in 2006.

Big, pompous claims were made then, too. We got bupkes.

[keith the dem]

11. A huge ship cannot turn on a dime

especially if everyone is paddling in different directions.

Obama's genius is building up allies to get as many as possible to move in the same direction.

Build alliances now so he can hit the ground running.

[bean fidhleir]

19. Is that like "we need to keep our powder dry"? Sounds like it.

[Ladyhawk]

38. Dems have the driest powder in recorded history. nt

[relayerbob]

33. Thank you. Rationality is a good thing

[Individualist]

3. DLC won

[bean fidhleir]

8. That's how it looks from here, for sure.

And here's the banner ad as I was posting: "Free Money For Republicans"

http://www.federalmoneysite.com/republican.html?kw=republicans

I didn't examine it thoroughly, but I don't think it's satire.

[TheWraith]

10. Oh really? How?

Because some people here don't seem to understand what the fuck they're talking about. And so far that includes you.

[tabatha]

4. Do you really think that McCain would be the same?

To implement the changes, Obama has to have the country behind him.

[Idealism]

5. He isn't in office yet, what the fuck is wrong with some people on here

You expect change to happen in 2 weeks in the biggest constitutional democracy on the planet? What did you want by now, a jetpack fueled by biodiesel? Or maybe a 'green collar' job awaiting you at a new hydroelectric plant? It took close to 30 years of Reaganomics to screw the middle class into the ground and you want them to be lifted out in two fucking weeks? Get a grip please, this isn't helping us

[MrCoffee]

9. Maybe a teensy bit of change during the transition wouldn't hurt

Naming Rahm Emanuel as chief of staff? Backing Traitor Joe in the caucus? Floating Hillary as SecState?


Your wild hyperbole notwithstanding, the OP is spot on.

[Mojorabbit]

16. I agree. nt

[Idealism]

18. Rahm isn't a bad choice to be resident skullcracker, first off.

Second, Lieberman's vote is needed if we have ANY hope of passing universal health care, funding for Obama's green initiative, or Supreme Court appointments. Third, I wouldn't read too much into Hillary being SoS possibly. Obama will keep her on a tight leash making sure his agenda is forwarded. The President Elect is a lot smarter than any of us, the election proves that. He has consistently been two steps ahead of the GOP, why not just try to see this from his perspective?

[screembloodymurder]

24. Is Obama forgiving the other side or getting instructions?

Here's what the other side is saying as Obama pats Lieberman on the back.

"An Historic Event"..that's all I keep
hearing. I don't see what the BIG deal is! It
happens every day..... When January 20, 2009 rolls
around, it'll just be another black family moving
into government housing.

[Idealism]

27. You have officially gone off the reservation

Go troll freeperland some more, maybe you'll find some new information that proves Obama is a commie while you are there and decide to stick around those parts.

[screembloodymurder]

31. It was sent to me by one of the reconciled.

I've never been to freeper land, but I been to Oklahoma.

[NeedleCast]

13. No Magic Wand

Same thing happened in 06 when Dems took a 1 seat advantage in congress. Everyone figured that things would instantly change and got pissy when their personal sacred cow didn't stop getting poked immediately. Happens every election.

What do we want?!? PONIES!
When do we want them?!? NOW!

[Oregone]

6. The rich people won

They fucked us for 8++ years, and now we are all happy. Hurray.

[TheWraith]

7. May I suggest pulling the giant f--king chip off your shoulder and trying to cheer up?

Like, say, by looking at the real world for a few minutes?

[Oregone]

20. I look at the real world far too often

Its brutal and ugly, but that is its nature. But hell, Im quite chipper. Trust me.

[NeedleCast]

12. You're aware that Obama has not take office yet

...right?

[bean fidhleir]

15. You're aware that he's made and is making high-level appointments already, right?

There's an old saying about how a person's direction can usually be determined by which way they're facing when they start moving. Not many people double back. Most begin as they mean to go on.

[Idealism]

21. Lets use analogies to determine how the future will come out

Brilliant. Lets judge a man we elected because we believe he can do the job the best before he assumes the mantle. I am ashamed of some of my peers on DU today

[NeedleCast]

25. I guess it's a matter of your expectiations

You seemed to think that an Obama win = magic beans that would produce a magic beanstalk.

Your expectations were, unfortunatly, misplaced.

You also seem to be of the set here that is disappointed that Obama's first step wasn't to produce 15 clones of Dennis Kucinich and instantly place each clone in a cabinet level position. I thought Obama made it pretty clear he was going to reach across the isle (as much as I hate that term...) and try to create an inclusive government.

So far Obama has made what...1 or 2 semi-major appointments? There's also speculation as to a few others. So what's the big friggin whoop about at this point? F'ing relax. You'll get your pony.

[Dover]

22. Didn't you hear? The populace is 'right of center'. Now repeat that until you believe it..n/t

[Critters2]

23. It's called "reaching across the aisle", and, if you voted for him in the primaries,

you're getting what you wanted. There were two progressives in the primaries. Obama wasn't one of them.

[dmallind]

28. Not even close to the aisle

What is the voting difference between Clinton and Obama? Emmanuel and Obama on consolidated bills? The "aisle" is in between the parties - not in some hairsplitting percentile in the middle of one of them. If he picks Hagel for SoD (an unlikely if not impossible option) THEN worry about crossing the aisle, but I'm a Blue Dog and I bet my preisdential ballot matched yours, and Dennis Kucinich's and heck even Sanders' so don't tell me there's an aisle where he's reaching now.

[dmallind]

26. Well a couple of issues with that

The "DLC" is a substantial change form the neocons even if taken as the caricature-like DU boogieman. I don't recall too much DLC angst about stem cell funding, or record budget deficits, abortion restrictions or tax cuts only for the very wealthy etc. I certainly didn't see that in the Clinton era, did you? Saying Obama isn't going to change anything is like saying W didn't change anything from Reagan/Poppy, forgetting that Clinton came in between. Feel free to vent about how Clinton wasn't everything you would desire> in some instances I may even agree, but saying he was like Bush is lunacy of the highest order.

Then there's the question of where SHOULD politically savvy, experienced and expert appointees for Obama come from, especially in the positions which are intertwined on a daily basis with legislative wrangling? It's OK to appoint some newbies from the private sector, especially in jobs like Transportation or Energy and so on, but for the political infighting you need political fighters. How many experienced political Dem fighters currently active and looking for jobs have no experience with the Clintons?

Then of course there's your crushing conclusion. Who won the election?

I'll tell you who won.

Democrats. The Democratic party. Democrats that include Clinton and his underlings. The Democratic Party that includes the DLC and the Blue Dogs. The far left did not win alone. The ideologically pure did not win alone. The people with no political experience or connections did not win alone. We all did - everybody from pragmatic socialists to Rockefeller Republicans in exile. If you can't see that as a change then I can't help you, because the blind cannot see.

It's not like Obama didn't "warn" you. How much did he talk about bipartisanship - let alone inclusion of Demoocrats? How much did he talk about reaching across the aisle - let alone reaching slightly further to his right or towards his closest competitor? How much did he talk about working with people who would disagree and challenge him let alone those with only limited policy differences? When he mentioned being able to work with Lugar and McCain and even (gawd help us) Inhofe, did you think he would balk at working with Clinton and Emmanuel? Why?

[bean fidhleir]

29. I don't hear you mentioning any good news. So far, you're just confirming my

impression that there ain't no good news.

[dmallind]

32. If you don't think exchanging Bush and his cabal for even YOUR view of the DLC

is good news, then you are, frankly, so far disconnected from my perception and objective data that no exchange of ideas is even possible. No doubt you feel the reverse, but I'm hard pressed to imagine on what substantive empirical evidence you would go your way.

All I could even start trying in that case is to choose your metric for socioeconomic success, and compare the last eight years under the neocons with the previous eight years under the DLC's champion poster boy and choose which you prefer.

DLC is preferable in......

Unemployment? Check.

Poverty? Check

Median income? Check.

Budget deficits? Check.

Don't want economic factors? How about freedom of choice, limitations on meidcal research, climate change?


Whether you think it's perfect or not is immaterial. Same for whether I think it's perfect or not of course! But not change for the better? Nobody sane can argue that.

[bean fidhleir]

35. If you use a measuring device of sufficiently fine resolution, then sure, differences can be found

anywhere you want to look. But are they meaningful differences in the real world? Not necessarily. What the hell difference will it ever make to the daughter of that exhausted Iraqi physician who didn't stop his car quickly enough that he was shot dead by a 20yo American "liberator" rather than a dastardly "insurgent"?

It's the same thing in science: journals are filled with articles showing "significant" differences that can't be detected without sophisticated statistical tools. What exactly is the value of such differences in real life? Well, they count toward the author's career goals.

When someone tries to tell me there's a real difference whether the doctor is shot by a "liberator" or an "insurgent", I know I'm talking with a person who's either psychotic or ethically bankrupt.

[ieoeja]

30. Sinn Féin

[LanternWaste]

34. On edit, never mind...

On edit, never mind...

Too many petty, petulant tantrums, and not enough time...

[dflprincess]

36. Not the people

I'd say the status quo was the big winner.

[TexasObserver]

37. Every election is won by the same people - the ones in the middle.