Eric Holder at Justice will be a hammer against Bush remnants like Guantanamo and torture policy

[bigtree]

from American Prospect: http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=11&year=2008&base_name=holders_human_rights_cred


WHATEVER one makes of conflicting media reports regarding the Obama Administration's likely position on torture, if Michael Isikoff is correct in reporting that Eric Holder will be the new Attorney General it's probably a good sign that Obama really does intend to abandon the Bush torture policy.

Via Spencer Ackerman, Mark Halperin provides a release from the American Constitution Society highlighting Holder's record: http://thepage.time.com/release-from-the-american-constitution-society/

Eric H. Holder Jr., Deputy Attorney General during the Clinton administration, asserted in a speech to the American Constitution Society (ACS) that the United States must reverse “the disastrous course” set by the Bush administration in the struggle against terrorism by closing the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, declaring without qualification that the U.S. does not torture people, ending the practice of transferring individuals involuntarily to countries that engage in torture and ceasing warrantless domestic surveillance.

“Our needlessly abusive and unlawful practices in the ‘War on Terror' have diminished our standing in the world community and made us less, rather than more, safe,” Holder told a packed room at the ACS 2008 Convention on Friday evening. “For the sake of our safety and security, and because it is the right thing to do, the next president must move immediately to reclaim America's standing in the world as a nation that cherishes and protects individual freedom and basic human rights.”

There's a video of Holder's speech to ACS here, from which Ackerman provides a partial transcript: http://wm.nmmstream.net/genasx/acs/receptionwmv55514.asx

“We owe the American people a reckoning. It is our responsibility as citizens to preserve and protect our constitution… Let me be clear: I firmly believe that there is evil in the world, and that we still face grave dangers to our security. But our ability to lead the world in combatting these dangers depends not only on the strength of our military leadership but our moral leadership as well. … To recapture it, we can no longer allow ourselves to be ruled by fear. We must evaluate our policies and our practices in the harsh light of day and steel ourselves to face the world’s dangers in accord with the rule of law.”

[mucifer]

1. If he is so proHuman Rights why was he a lawyer for Chiquita International?

He also was a lawyer for Merck. That scares me.

[bigtree]

2. I just don't think that work as a defense lawyer is as defining of Holder

. . . as his critics suggest. It's not part of some pattern of misconduct, not that I can determine.

[mucifer]

4. it's an ethical human rights issue. The international fruit companies have been

Terrible on this issue and if he defended them that's bad news. I guess I don't know for sure what kind of cases he did for these huge nasty corporations but it does make me a little ill.

[bigtree]

6. I read several of the reports.

easy to find

[bigtree]

36. well,

. . . if you find a pattern of conduct from Holder corroborating your concerns, Id be interested. I haven't yet.

[girl gone mad]

9. He defended Chiquita in a civil case.

He could have said no, if he had ethics.

He also advised Clinton to pardon Marc Rich.

[bigtree]

11. the Rich thing, I think is a ridiculous complaint.

. . . and defense lawyers defend creeps sometimes. I'm not all jazzed about it. His boss will be President Barack Obama. He'll take his orders from the president.

[Thothmes]

32. He also prosecuted Dan Rostankowski

[bigtree]

33. I loved Rosty

but, he was guilty.

[derby378]

3. Unless he intends to prosecute torture suspects...

...he can save me the melodrama.

[bigtree]

7. There will be much more, and if Obama says that's out, there's nothing he can do anyway

. . . or any other AG he chooses.

[EFerrari]

5. So, hopefuly Brennan, the torture supporter that is leading Obama's intelligence team

will get right out of town before Holder comes in?

Oh, geeze.

And Holder had no problem defending terror in Colombia when he got Chiquita off with a slap for their support of anti-union death squads responsible for the deaths of thousands of workers.

Please.

I'm going to need some kind of major pill to defend these people.

[bigtree]

8. the complaint about his defense lawyering of Chiquita is the only string critics have

to pull on . . . overblown, I think.

And you're suggesting Obama WON'T close Gitmo? WON'T work to end the torture policy?

Please, yourself.

[EFerrari]

20. Why overblown, in your opinion?

Clearly, Holder holds positions that Brennan and Miscik don't. It's not up to me to reconcile them.

[bigtree]

24. I don't believe that his defense work for Chiquita in that case

. . . represents some policy view broad enough to be translated into a policy position.

If you want to know his position on Guantanamo and on the Bush administration's approach to their 'war on terror,' I think Holden makes that clear.

Brennan and Miscik will, presumably, work under Holder, who will work for President Obama.

[EFerrari]

28. So, I suppose, the families of the four thousand dead in that case

should be comforted because they can't be translated into policy?

Holder defended terror. Maybe someone as nimble as he might be can now argue against it.

Sorry, bigtree. I didn't look for this. It's just there.

[bigtree]

30. that's typical faulty logic and a bullshit stretch. Holder isn't responsible for those deaths.

No more than any defense attorney is responsible for their defendants crimes.

[EFerrari]

31. Holder chose to defend their killers. He took their money.

He wasn't any defense attorney. He was not a public defender. He chose to defend them.

What part of "he chose to defend them" is faulty in your view?

[bigtree]

35. again, you would have to apply the same standard to EVERY defense attorney

a ridiculous standard

[EFerrari]

37. No, that's just mendacious. Public defenders have to support every client.

People at Holder's level have choices.

At his level, you don't have to defend the murder of thousands of people unless you choose to take the case.

And that's beside the point of Obama chosing him and saying he has concerns about the treatment of trade unionists in Colombia. Let's say Holder just did a job. So, why did Obama hire someone who has acted contrary to his own stated position?

I already know the answer. The deaths of people in Latin American don't seem to register up here any more than Iraqi deaths do.

This is not change.

[bigtree]

38. I think you're exaggerating the impact of his defense of Chiquita

They claimed they were paying 'protection money.' The relatively light verdict seemed to reflect that defense. I realize that you are prepared to pronounce Chiquita more culpable than the court decided they were, but the view that Chiquita's actions were as pernicious as you believe apparently didn't wash with the court. You can blame that fact on Holder's defense, but then you have to re-argue the case. Your summary complaints here don't rise to that level of debate, and I'm not really prepared to offer a defense of Chiquita beyond the verdict in that case.

[EFerrari]

39. bigtree, you know me by now.

I don't put up many threads and I don't -- or I try not to -- just ride my moods with the next news leak.

Holder's appointment is sending a signal to Latin America.

[bigtree]

40. I don't think that case is defining enough to 'send a signal to Latin America'

And, if it becomes part of some public debate regarding policy toward Latin America I predict that the Obama administration and Holder will be even more compelled to prove their commitment to justice.

(and, I heartily welcome your input and conversation. I would never question your sincerity on this or anything else.)

[EFerrari]

41. I sincerely hope you're right. n/t

[G_j]

22. that has been highly disturbing to me

Brennan is bad news!

[EFerrari]

34. And Miscik was right in there, too, a slam dunker.

I've tried really hard to keep my expectations low. I want Obama to succeed so much.

It gets harder every day.

[G_j]

43. another awful choice

no "change" at all there.

[saracat]

10. Obama Unlikely to Seek Torture Charges

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/18/politics/main4613023.shtml

[bigtree]

12. That statement is incorrect. His 'advisers' say he won't prosecute those who carried out

. . . Bush's orders.

That's not the same as 'not taking a stand against torture'

[saracat]

13. I changed the title before you posted. Mea culpa.

But it is still unlikely we will see any action on prosecuting those whp intigated and performed torture.

[Alexander]

14. Some people are just here to tear down Obama

No matter what he does or who he appoints.

[saracat]

17. And some think every appointment should be greeted with hosannas no matter

who it is. Obviously some think anyone who supported other primary candidates is not entitled to an opinion. Sorry but I am not impressed with Eric Holder. I wasn't impressed with him during the Clinton Admin and I am not impressed with him now. Have you ever heard him iterviewed?

[bigtree]

19. do you have any links to an interview?

[saracat]

44. No , I just remember him from the Clinrton era and he was as bland as oatmeal.

[Alexander]

47. Of course, being "bland" doesn't mean he's incapable of doing a good job.

I suspect you have the same problem with him that you do with Obama.

[cali]

21. lol.

saracat, queen of the Obama haters, and still dedicated to Mr. phony hedge fund.

[saracat]

26. Cali, newsflash, the primary is over.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

15. Obama had better reconsider, and fast...

Otherwise, people in the heartland will shrug their shoulders and say "See, I knew there was no real difference between Obama and McCain" and become more disenchanted about the political process.

[madrchsod]

18. i agree.. but more importrant is the shedders are working overtime

there will be no evidence left

[Blarch]

23. Ya, ...

Cause all those good folk in the heartland know exactly who Eric Holder is and his history. :sarcasm:

[MadHound]

25. I live in the heartland, I know exactly who Holder is,

And frankly I'm not happy with him as the AG choice. Too much baggage, too much Clinton connections for my taste. In fact this ongoing recycling of the Clinton administration by Obama is really starting to piss me off.

Any other bullshit assumptions that you'd like to make about the heartland?

[bigtree]

27. the Holder Clinton connection is an asset

. . . as the breadth of his experience as Deputy AG under Clinton will be invaluable in reorganizing Justice. There just aren't that many folks out there with that level of experience operating at the top levels of the Justice Dept. who've had experience under a Democratic administration. Even the Clinton appointees were recycled. That's just a reflection of the field of candidates for the position.

[Blarch]

29. Ya.

Do ya'all grow corn in your front yard ?

Do you eat fritters and grits ?

Is Ed Shultz your neighbor ?



:hi:

[madrchsod]

16. obama may not seek charges but that does`t rule out the house or senate.

it`s ap....notice that nothing is confirmed by anyone

and the obama people ain`t talking...i think obama said he`s firing anyone who leaks names or policy.

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. This would be ill advised if he wants to regain our moral stature in the world

Michael Ratner, a professor at Columbia University Law School and president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said prosecuting Bush officials is necessary to set future anti-torture policy.


"The only way to prevent this from happening again is to make sure that those who were responsible for the torture program pay the price for it," Ratner said. "I don't see how we regain our moral stature by allowing those who were intimately involved in the torture programs to simply walk off the stage and lead lives where they are not held accountable."


Amnesty International urges U.S. President-elect Barack Obama to make human rights central to his new administration. In the first 100 days of his term, Amnesty International is calling on President-elect Obama to: announce a plan and date to close Guantanamo; issue an executive order to ban torture and other ill-treatment, as defined under international law; and ensure that an independent commission to investigate abuses committed by the U.S. government in its "war on terror" is set up.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-terror/page.do?id=1011329


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0526-03.htm

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. Elliot Ness refuses to participate in Al Capone Criminal Behavior.

But won't say if he will prosecute.

[Pastiche423]

48. So far, there is nothing I've read about him that I like

Such as: (I stole this post from orleans)

ERIC HOLDER WILL PUT THOSE "DIRTY RATS" IN PRISON!

"Holder said he hopes to discourage some of that activity by being tougher on marijuana crimes. New guidelines should be in place by the end of the month, he said, noting that the District could learn from New York's "zero-tolerance" policy. There, crime plummeted when police aggressively enforced quality-of-life crimes, including panhandling and public drinking, which gave officers an opportunity to check for drugs, guns and outstanding warrants.

"Holder also proposed, in a December 1996 Washington Times interview, to impose mandatory minimum sentence of 18 months for any sale.

"While it's not clear if Holder's views have changed in the intervening 12 years, the question deserves attention in his confirmation hearings.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/19/73027/712/665/...