Someone today told me that UAW workers make $80 an hour

[gollygee]

Where do people come up with bullshit like that?

I remember when I was a kid, I had friends whose parents worked at a GM plant. (The plant has since closed.) They weren't raking it in. They seemed to do about the same as my parents, who were teachers. Is that unreasonable? I don't get it. But this $80/hour UAW worker stinks as bad as the "welfare queen" myth.

[Blue Diadem]

1. Here, I swiped this link from SmileyRose's post.

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

[gollygee]

3. That's a pretty good wage, but a huge amount less than $80/hour

Thanks for the info.

[Blue Diadem]

12. That higher figure is adding all the benefits into it, it was down further at the link.

Imagine if everyone had to add every benefit they received into their total wage. The SS & medicare paid by the employer, health insurance, paid personal days or sick days, vacation time, holiday pay, OT pay, workers comp insurance, unemployment insurance, shift premiums and education and training costs and pensions. (think employer matching 401K contributions for other people)

People just might be shocked at what their own "pay" might look like.

[gollygee]

13. Yeah

That's kind of where i was going in post #4. It's misleading to compare salary+benefits for them to other people's salaries without benefits. And benefits are expensive.

[ContinentalOp]

17. Hahahahaha. Yeah. Imagine that.

Let's see. My income would be exactly the same! SS and medicare paid by the employer? Health insurance? Sick days? Vacation time? OVERTIME! :rofl: PENSIONS!? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

What is this strange language you speak?

[Blue Diadem]

22. Are you self employed?

Employers pay an equal amount of SS & medicare that their employees do. I don't believe the Big 3 actually give paid sick days or personal time but many white collar jobs provide that. Same with pensions, if employees get matching 401k contributions from their employer, it's a similar expense.

[ContinentalOp]

28. Yes. I realize it's an unfair comparison, but I've had plenty of jobs.

Some without health insurance, none with any kind of a retirement plan (other than the joke of offering a 401k with no matching), and the concept of overtime is a total fantasy. When I hear people talking about "pensions" it's like hearing people talk about their second home in the Hamptons or something. Like a wonderful fantasy that I know exists out there somewhere for some people and I sometimes unrealistically fantasize that I can have that too!

[michreject]

33. Ooops

:)

[michreject]

41. We got/get paid sick days and 4 weeks vacation

For working through the shutdown, we get double time and an additional week off to be used lated or an additional 10 sick days at 1/2 pay. If you plan it right, you can take a day off a week with pay.

[Blue Diadem]

46. Vacation weeks are gradually obtained though aren't they?

DH worked for a supplier and it took him IIRC, 20 yrs before he got 4 weeks vacation. Working through shut-downs and working holidays always paid pretty good for him too.

I'm glad they get sick days. DH never had them. If they missed 3 days in a 90 day period, they were written up. Combine that with having to work 21 days in a row before getting a weekend off, if they missed a day, that 21 days began all over again.

Gosh, this is bringing back memories, I remember the years he worked rotating shifts. 90 days each shift.

[michreject]

47. Vacation increased as years of service increased

We got one week plus 40 hours sick time right off the bat.

[ContinentalOp]

15. What's a skilled-trades worker? They make a lot of money!

A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor.

Isn't the cost of living really low in Detroit? Pension, healthcare, $32/hr. That's not too bad.

[Blue Diadem]

21. It's a decent wage. Skilled trades are the tool and die, die repair,

electricians, pipefitters, millwrights, Cad/Cam operators, maintenance mechanics etc.

Extra education and apprenticeship is involved before getting journeyman certification.

My husband is a former die-repairman for one of the suppliers that closed 10 yrs ago. He'd do the repairs on 60-80 ton dies. He never made that kind of money although we lived comfortably because he was forced to work 21 days in a row before he got a weekend off. After his plant closed, we moved to Michigan for work then and that plant also closed. Due to the loss of Die casting in Ohio and Michigan, he went through retraining and became a maintenance mechanic and we now live on 2/3 of what we did before which is 1/2 of what GM pays.

Yeah, I'd say Ohio and Michigan have a lower cost of living than other areas although I think our utilities are somewhat higher.

[Bandit]

32. Ever hired a plumber or taken your car to a mechanic?

Sort of makes $32. an hour look cheap doesn't it?

[gollygee]

34. Not all of that actually goes to the plumber or mechanic

The company they work for charges, say, $100, but you have no way of knowing how much that person is making.

[ContinentalOp]

49. Plus their entire 40 hour work week is not necessarily billable time.

They have to drive around from job to job, go buy supplies, etc.

[Oceansaway]

2. i'm a UAW retiree...when folks say them

outlandish amounts, they are figuring in benefits too, however,

they're off by $30.00 an hour at least...

in my case anyway....

[gollygee]

4. That isn't fair because it doesn't allow for parallel comparisons

If you hear a number, you are going to compare it to other people's salaries. To add other things in that aren't added into the salaries you're comparing to is deliberately misleading.

[Greyhound]

7. and how many years did it take you to get to that wage?

Imbeciles...

[Oceansaway]

9. started out at $4.47 an hour in 1974...

when i retired in 2004 i was at the top of my payrate, $14.77 an hour....

on retirement i average $10.50 per hour...plus benefits (medical/dental)

i was an hourly employee in shipping/receiving...incentive and skilled trade

workers made ALOT more than me....

[Mojorabbit]

24. I started out as a registered nurse

out of school in the seventies at 4.50 an hour. My first apartment was 200 a month.

[Myrina]

5. ... and a CEO making $2M a year makes $1000 an hour

... so what's the person's point about actual floor workers making $80??

:shrug:

[gollygee]

8. disregard

I'm sure he earns every penny, and the folks doing the grunt work are the real greedy ones. (/sarcasm)


edited - I googled and found he made much more than that, but the number was from a few year ago and he actually has taken a pay cut. My apologies to the CEO of GM.

[FreakinDJ]

6. skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour

That is "Total Package" which includes cost of medical Insurance, union dues, ect, ect

More like $21.00 on the check

[doc03]

14. The average GM worker earned $32.32 per hour

that is their pay not including benefits. When an industry says they pay their workers $80 that includes their share of SS, Workmans Compensation, Unemployment Compensation, Pensions, Health insurance, Dental etc. I have heard their total labor cost comes to around $78 and I wouldn't doubt if if does. There is no way they make $21.00 on the check unless that would be after tax income. I work in the steel industry and make well over $60,000 without overtime, many people make well over $100,000 with overtime. The auto workers have always had a substantially higher wage scale than us. You would be surprised at how much a minimum wage worker costs an employer when you count all the other costs. That's why companies like to force people to work overtime 1 1/2 is still much cheaper than hiring another employee. I'm not saying they don't work for their money, I don't know. We make good money in the steel industry but we have had dozens of people killed on the job in our plant since I started back in 1970.

[michreject]

I made 28.XX when I retired in 06

This was my pay. I didn't have to pay for BC/BS. On a 40 hour check, claiming zero, I would come home with a little over 800.00. I was on a 58 hour week though. The other 18 hours was time and a half.

[Sinti]

10. If it were true that's only about $165,000 a year - not chump change

but it doesn't exactly make you a billionaire. Caterpillar repair men make about $70 an hour here in Idaho (that's what I'm told from a manager there). It's really good pay, but you've got to have specialized training. I don't hear anybody complaining about that. If regular people got paid more (and C-level execs got paid less), in general, we wouldn't have the economic problem we do now.

The economy is like your circulatory system - all the blood has been going to the top for quite a while, and now we're having an aneurysm. I don't think it will truly get healthy until we get the money circulating freely in all sectors of our economic body, rather than pooling in certain areas.

[gollygee]

11. I agree with that

It was a grocery store checker so I imagine he was comparing the salary to his own. They don't make that much, but if they did they'd spend it and put it back in the economy, unlike the ultra rich, so it would be much better for the US than what we have.

[ContinentalOp]

18. $70 an hour for Caterpillar repair!?

Jesus Christ. These threads are enlightening. Either that or the numbers are really inaccurate.

[Sinti]

26. That's what the guy who manages them told me n/t

[Lex]

16. Well, evidently Joe the Plumber makes $250,000 a year, what that per/hr.?

nt

[SmileyRose]

31. somewhere around $120 an hour

[BlooInBloo]

19. Somebody told me that black folks are all on welfare and drive pink Cadillacs.

[doc03]

20. Who would that have been Ronnie Raygun? Were you

around back then when everyone on welfare was a welfare queen? He said Unemployment Compensation was nothing more than a paid vacation for workers then started taxing unemployment while cutting taxes on the rich.

[BlooInBloo]

23. Could've been. They all look alike to me.

[BlueCollar]

25. Frank Lorenzo claimed similar costs per hour for Eastern Airlines workers

He was full of shit too...

[Blue_Tires]

27. ugh...sad to see that old meme is still kicking around

it's about 5 years old iirc, when some anti-union reporter in detroit did an 'expose' on the "janitor sweeping the hall at GM making $76/hr..."

i was lurking on a lot of car forums back then, and that meme spread like the plague

[TexasObserver]

29. It's $73 an hour, according to one source, but that is total hourly costs.

That's salary, health benefits, retirement benefits, and assumedly, various associated employment costs per line employee. In other words, it is a figure far in excess of what a worker makes per hour, so it's misleading.

I understand it is scheduled to be reduced to the $40 range in the next year or two, however.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. See My Post, TO

I have the same figures. I do, however, question how the accountants have defined "absorbed cost". Some accounting maneuvers could be used to inflate that figure beyond what actually goes to line labor.
The Professor

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. hey, i make $200 an hour

but then again, I usually only work about 2 hours a day.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. The Fully Absorbed Cost Is Reported At $73/Hour

However, i would like to see how the accountants determined "full absorption". If full absorption means the salary, benefits, fringes, pensions, and health care for retirees, then i would agree it is a bit high.

But, the concern i have is that the "full absorption" could include the R&D, administrative, marketing expenses that go to salaried workers that are then assigned as an accounting procedure to line operators.

So, i would seriously question the significance of the number as it relates to true labor cost, even if accounting-wise, it's true.
The Professor

[gollygee]

36. The way I heard it is that it was their take-home salary

But the grocery checker apparently didn't give me the whole story.

Yes, in order for that number to mean anything we'd have to see what all was included.

I think the number is being used by anti-union people to deliberately mislead people. It isn't being presented in an honest way.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Well, What You Heard Is, Indeed, Completely False

In fact, it's a flat out lie.
GAC

[gollygee]

39. Yes, that was my initial impression

From the OP: But this $80/hour UAW worker stinks as bad as the "welfare queen" myth.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. I Saw That

I was agreeing with you.
GAC

[TexasObserver]

40. I agree. It's a purposely enlarged number to create a perception that is untrue.

It's designed to swing as a mace at those supporting aid to the big three. It's designed to create anger by workers who make $6-$30 an hour at auto workers.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. Yep. Same Page

Same paragraph.
GAC

[Blue Diadem]

48. It appears they may even be adding benefit costs of retirees who are no longer on the payroll.

according to UAW:

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

Why is the figure cited as hourly labor costs by the companies so much higher than the wage rates?

In addition to regular hourly pay, the labor cost figures cited by the companies include other expenses associated with having a person on payroll. This includes overtime, shift premiums and the costs of negotiated benefits such as holidays, vacations, health care, pensions and education and training. It also includes statutory costs, which employers are required to pay by law, such as federal contributions for Social Security and Medicare, and state payments to workers’ compensation and unemployment insurance funds. The highest figures sometimes cited also include the benefit costs of retirees who are no longer on the payroll.

[Hubert Flottz]

42. What does Lieberman make an hour for selling us out?

[Ganja Ninja]

43. They always count all the associated costs as if it were take home pay.

I work as an project estimator for a commercial air conditioning company. When I estimate labor costs I put in $20 an hour plus another $110 per man-day for associated costs like insurance and taxes. Then I have to add in the costs for the company trucks at around $50 a man-day.

The point is that what an employee costs is not what they're paid. The actual take home pay is still based on $20 per hour and payroll deductions come off the top of that. So take home pay is only about 2/3 of that $20 per hour after taxes. As far as I know UAW workers are being paid somewhere between $18 and $24 an hour depending on their job and their seniority.

[sarcasmo]

50. Right wing talking point, trying to destroy the union.