Did anyone hear the 8 year old child murderer talking on CNN?

[ecstatic]

At first I thought it was outrageous how he was being handled in this case, but after hearing him, I don't think he should ever be allowed to roam in public. The ease and precision in which he lies gave me chills.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but that little boy scares the hell out of me!

Full audio of confession http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/18/arizona.boy.murder/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_re_us/child_charged

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. How on earth does a little boy know how to shoot? Kids should not know how to shoot unless their...

belly requires them to in order to feed themselves, which is clearly not the case nowadays.

[Pavulon]

gta4, cod4

tv all show basic manual of arms for ak and m rifles. insert mag, pull charging handle..

Pretty scary he shot those people. Not normal, something caused that.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I don't have kids but if I did, it'd be a cold day in hell before any of them would see a violent

movie or show. They'd have to wait till they're 18 to see one. I'm serious.

[Pavulon]

13. I love games but some

are not appropriate for kids. I play when I have time and used to shoot them playing counter strike and shoot them playing cod4. You can tell a kid from an adult by how they play.

Driving games aren't to bad for kids I guess.

COD4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xfqevpJvs

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Games have gone too far. I've seen the games fathers buy for their sons

Giving or allowing children to play violent games is unconscionable. It's clear most men who do that don't use their brain.

[Pavulon]

25. Depends on the kid and content

I never got into the GTA stuff. Just not interesting to me. I do enjoy playing against other players in first person shooters.

Adults are generally more fun to play against. But there are TONS of kids online.

I think there is some common sense and reason to the games. Strategy and blowing steam with them is fun.

A bit of the old ultraviolence.. However one should be able to break this out from the real world.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. I think thinking that kids can separate game violence from the real world is not only delusional....

but I don't know any psychologist that thinks kids are able to separate the two. They don't have that capacity yet, which is why they're minors and not allowed to undertake the responsibilities of adults.

[truedelphi]

113. Rolling Stone had an excellent article about how the Army

And other services needed to de-senstiize people about killing other humans.

So they used violent images to do it. They had a psychiatrist who said that if you saw photos or movies about violence, it hardened you to violence. He helped put together the content that would condition people to use weaponry against other humans.

But the TV and gaming industry try to get us to pretend that there is no truth to that!

[uncle ray]

60. right, because mothers never ever buy their sons violent video games.

and of course girls never play violent games either. if only there were no men then it would be a perfect loving world with no violence.

[pipoman]

116. self delete

[snake in the grass]

72. Bullshit!

GTA4 doesn't teach one to 'shoot' just as it doesn't teach one to 'drive'. Parents teach their kids to shoot, plain and simple.

[Ladyhawk]

94. Shooting in a video game and shooting in real life are completely different.

I've actually done a lot of both. I haven't shot a real gun in years, but clicking the reload button in a game and actually reloading a gun are completely different. Lining up crosshairs with a mouse and shooting down a real target are light-years apart. You can't learn how to shoot and operate a gun by playing a video game. It amazes me that people still trot out this lame argument.

This kid was taught how to shoot and reload an actual gun. Try to learn a little bit about the actual case before jumping to conclusions. The gun in question was a single-shot .22 rifle, which required reloading between each shot. His father taught him how to use it.

[snake in the grass]

102. I totally agree and...

...I hate the stupidity behind the argument that video games teach children to kill. It reminds me of the 80s argument that heavy metal leads to Satanism or suicide. People who make that argument show their ignorance.

However, I think you posted to the wrong comment. Look above and you'll see what I mean. Hopefully the person you meant it for will read it and then take the time to learn something.

[Pavulon]

114. My point was sarc. but you can see detail down to

the ak going from safe to full to semi. obviously not boot but one wonders how dumbshit bangers figure it out.

Watch enough tv and you can learn how to load and charge an m4. Some show even ran through sports process. forgot which.

[Uzybone]

109. Dumbest post Ive ever seen

clicking a button on a mouse or a controller teaches kids how to shoot real guns? Wow.

BTW his dad taught him how to shoot a gun. Get your facts.

[Pavulon]

115. It is really easy to make a glock 17 work

if you are smart enough to play cod4 you can figure out how to load and fire a simple handgun. Punk asses arent going to be able to load an M19 and fire it. But it is pretty neat that you can get the concept of walking a burst from a select fire rifle onto a target.

Lots of people who are trained on the real m4 can never figure that out.

My point is that someone is teaching the bangers how to use handguns and it is not boot and not the nra.

go figure.

[Blue Diadem]

10. His Dad taught him how to shoot praire dogs.

That's what I remember reading around here when the story first broke.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. His dad played with fire and died by it. Anyone that teaches their kids to shoot ...

has problems. This isn't the Old West.

[Pavulon]

14. My dad taught me..

so I learned from a responsible adult. So I knew safe firearm handling. When I saw guns at peoples houses I booked it, had no urge to mess around with them.

This has some other angle.

[AlCzervik]

22. my dad is a gun owner many times over and when we were kids he taught us how

to handle firearms and firearm safety, he's not a hunter, he's a target shooter, anyhow we learned how to shoot, clean them and load them and i'm 41 and i have never owned a gun or killed anyone or anything with one.

i also have a rule about my own kid, if she's going to someone's house i ask the parents if they own a firearm, if it's yes then she doesn't go to their house.

[Blue Diadem]

31. I suspect it does too. I had read he was recently spanked,

the op's article said by his step mom. I'd read previously that she and his Dad had recently married, Sept. IIRC. Also, his Mom lives elsewhere, a long distance away, Alabama, Louisiana somewhere around there. She had also just recently visited him.

I don't know. Something smells to high heaven with this shooting. From what I've read, the gun had to be reloaded each time and he shot his Dad and the other man each two times. Once in the head and once in the chest.

I'd heard there was a gag order on this too...but yet we're seeing video released of police interrogations.

Nothing makes any sense.

[Withywindle]

65. Not that simple. My dad was in law enforcement, so he had to have a gun, including carrying off-duty

So hell yeah, he taught me how to shoot. Having a gun in the house is extremely dangerous IF there are family members who don't know how to respect its power and use it safely.

Once I'd been taught how to use it, it was pretty demystified to me. No different from any other potentially very dangerous tool lying around, like a chainsaw. I still liked books better, but I had no irrational fear of it, and no forbidden-fruit glamour-attraction either.

I always knew where it was. If I'd ever had the impulse to kill anyone, it wouldn't have been that hard. Miraculously I, and millions of other kids who grew up in homes with guns, managed not to.

Edit, because some might miss the :sarcasm: on the last line: even when my teenage fights with my parents were at their worst, the idea never seriously crossed my mind. The idea doesn't cross the mind of most right-thinking adults either.

[Rebubula]

92. Bad logic

This kid was\is a bad seed. There are some people that are born sociopaths. After listening to this clip...it would seem this is an example.

Teaching kids how to shoot\handle firearms is a good idea. It teaches them it is NOT a toy and shows them respect for a dangerous tool. More people die in car accidents than shootings - yet we teach them how to drive.

Guns are not inherently evil. They are just tools. Some people ARE inherently evil and guns make good tools.

One of the most prolific killers of last century , Ted Bundy, did not use a gun. He mostly just used his hands or blunt objects.

[Gormy Cuss]

108. Talk about bad logic. How do you know that the child is a "bad seed," Dr. Frist? n/t

[gollygee]

93. I know TONS of people who hunt with their kids

Where I live, most people hunt, and a huge number of them bring kids (particularly boys 8-10 and older) hunting with them. Yet I've never heard of this happening around here. Obviously not all kids whose parents take them hunting kill their parents. Something else caused this.

[jmg257]

107. I don't have problems. Neither does my son. Think MAYBE the KID had problems already!?!

I know PLENTY of people who learned how to shoot - from their dads. NONE of them have problems...good friends, good cops, good husbands, good kids, good fathers, good uncles, good soldiers, just plain good all around, and yet they all shoot. Imagine that!!!

[LisaL]

17. His father taught him how to shoot the .22 caliber rifle.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. Well, let that be a good lesson to all men who think it's adorable when they

teach their son to shoot, to play violent games and who think it's hillarious for their kid to act violent.

[pipoman]

117. Your posts are offensively misandric...get a grip...n/t

[wartrace]

21. I learned to shoot a real rifle at ten years old.

Had a BB gun at eight. How on earth does a little boy KILL is the question you ought to be asking in my humble opinion.

[ecstatic]

26. Maybe he got such a big rush from killing animals that he wanted to upgrade

to humans. :shrug:

[wartrace]

40. I have never shot an animal, have you?

I have only shot paper & clay. I do not know what this kids problem was but it sure wasn't that he knew how to shoot, it is his willingness to kill his father that is troubling.

[Demobrat]

27. His father taught him to hunt. nt

nt

[shaniqua6392]

79. His father taught him how to shoot a gun.

Big mistake.

[pipoman]

118. Along with hundreds of millions of other kids who shoot yet never shoot anyone..

[slackmaster]

98. My brother and I leaned how to shoot when he was six and I was 10

He's now a successful officer in the US Navy. I'm doing OK in the private sector. Neither of us has ever committed a crime with a firearm, nor have either of us ever had an impulse to do so.

[babylonsister]

2. Yes, I did, but left with a very different impression. He's a kid and

is getting attention. He could just be responding with answers he thinks they want to hear.


Do you know if they ever checked his hands for residue from the carnage?

[orleans]

66. and did they check the kid's clothes?

where the hell is the mother or stepmother? this is such an insane case--and the fact that they are releasing video tape questioning the child is freaky weird.

[AlCzervik]

3. no lawyer or family member in there with him during the interrogation, that's going

to get thrown out if this ever goes to court.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. That was my first thought.

[gravity]

4. They were saying that the confession is unrealiable

Young children have been known to give false confessions since they are easily coerced by authority.

[Lex]

5. How do you know he's lying?

:shrug:

[AlCzervik]

6. he sounded like an 8 year old that was trying to please adults imo.

like they were leading him where they wanted him to go.

i could be toally wrong but that's what i heard.

[Lex]

11. Yes, and that's the problem with interrogating a child, it's unreliable

except under certain circumstances, because they (children) often want to tell the adult what they think the adult wants to hear, or expects them to say.

[spanone]

100. i agree, plus there was NO GUARDIAN in the room....it will be dismissed in court

[ecstatic]

15. I just had a gut feeling while listening to him

I was right here on DU defending him when the story first came out.

However, after hearing him ask about whether he's going to "juvie" and other comments about putting his dad out of his suffering, I just think the boy's a cold hearted liar.

You've gotta hear the full audio clip http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/18/arizona.boy.murder/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

I hope he is treated fairly but I don't think anyone will be safe with him around.

[reflection]

99. My wife and I heard the transcript this morning

and if I had not known any details of the case, I would have assumed he was telling the truth. He sounded very believable.

[liberalmuse]

8. The real issue is...

Why in the FUCK is an 8 year old accused murderer being given a news interview? Why are they allowing a child to be exposed like this? Murderer or not, this is fucking wrong. If this child did indeed shoot these men in cold blood, why are we shown this spectacle? This is really disturbing. WTF kind of society have we become???

[cobalt1999]

16. Great response

My feelings exactly.

[LisaL]

20. It's not a news interview. I think media got a hold of his police

interview.

[AlCzervik]

24. it wasn't a news interview, it was an interrogation and he had no family member for attorney there.

that was just plain dumb on the part of the police.

[LisaL]

28. His father was dead and his mother was not living in the same

state.

[AlCzervik]

29. they should have gotten him a public defender, you don't just question a minor

with no one there for that kid no matter what the crime is and if this does go to court count on that whole confession ebing chucked all because they didn't call the public defenders office.

[DoctorMyEyes]

35. They didn't get him a lawyer cause he wasn't a suspect

He wasn't a suspect when they started questioning him - he was a witness. Then he confessed.

[Heidi]

78. No child should be questioned by law enforcement without an parent or attorney present.

A child cannot give informed consent to such questioning.

[Uncle Joe]

111. I find it hard to believe that he wasn't a suspect as the interviewer questioned him about how

you got gunpowder on your hands.

[Seldona]

70. That's what Guardian Ad Litem is for. Has the court appointed one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_guardian

I think it would be HIGHLY irresponsible of the court not to have done so immediately, and the police know that.

Imo this boy deserves the same right to remain silent and be proven innocent everyone else has. Also that he was not informed of those rights in even the most rudimentary way, unless police haven't released that part yet.

Even if he was informed, can an eight year old with no legal guardian even give consent?

As to the guilt or innocence of this child that is what detectives, forensic teams, and state crime labs are for; to locate and collate evidence. I think I will wait for the court's decision on these other matters before claiming an eight year old committed two cold-blooded murders. Unfortunately that won't be for a while with the gag order in effect.

Sad story.

[DearAbby]

49. You're right...

Normally they dont even list names of minors accused of crimes in Newspapers. Yet here they are showing a confession of an eight year old? Where are the lawyers and social workers protecting this child?

[surrealAmerican]

89. Yup. Not only a serious breach of ethics for the police, ...

... but for the news organization as well.

[DearAbby]

50. You're right...

Normally they dont even list names of minors accused of crimes in Newspapers. Yet here they are showing a confession of an eight year old? Where are the lawyers and social workers protecting this child?

[IndyOp]

104. Thank you! The sensationalism surrounding this case is a high (low) point of our current

corporate media.

:(

[Journeyman]

9. Sociopaths come in all sizes, shapes, ages and genders . . .

there's no easy answer for how to deal with them, but granting absolution based on any of these factors (as some insist) is not the approach for finding the solution civil society requires.

[nightrain]

18. the child was probably not born as a sociopath... let's not blame an 8 yr old.

More likely his parents/caretakers are deficient.

[riderinthestorm]

37. I know it seems wierd but honestly, I think there are some who are born sociopathic.

My neighbors are some of the nicest, kindest folks on the face of the planet. They raised 6 children (all of them extremely successful, lovely human beings: doctors, small business owners, a music teacher, and an artist) before they decided to adopt a child. Their boy is from the Soviet Union and as gawd is my witness, this boy is disturbed. He hurts people, deliberately. And it's escalated. He's 10 years old now and they're dealing with his latest episode of trying to strangle one of their grandchildren at a family birthday party. He's a sociopath with absolutely no conscience. It's disturbing the way he looks at a person, at the way he sizes them up. I am unnerved as a 40 plus year old woman with LOTS of experience with kids - my own and others.

They came to my house the other day and wept as they related the birthday party incident. They are considering giving him up for the safety of the rest of their family, he is that disturbed. He's been in counseling for the past 3 years (since his first episode in kindergarten when he killed the class baby chick) and the counselor fully agrees that it's time to institutionalize this kid.

I know this is anecdotal but I fully believe that sociopaths CAN be born that way. It's not simply a nature vs. nurture argument.

[Schema Thing]

53. most likely all of them - are born that way or predisposed to become so.

[nightrain]

120. if by "predisposed" you mean "at risk" due to environmental conditions...

and/or possibly some genetic component that gets activated under certain familial conditions of neglect, abuse, violence, etc.

[Withywindle]

68. I agree.

I was thinking also of the case of the 14-year-old who shot a fellow 14-year-old classmate in the head right in school because the victim was a flamboyantly gay kid who flirted with boys and wore nail polish.

I don't care how fucked up his parenting was - I know all sorts of kids who were abused in all sorts of ways, and the idea of SHOOTING ANOTHER KID IN THE HEAD EXECUTION STYLE IN FRONT OF ALL THEIR CLASSMATES was just simply NOT something that was even considered, among all the other ways of messed-up adolescent acting out. I don't care how abused they were. I don't care how many violent movies they saw. There's just something in the brain there that is all wrong from the get-go.

[alphafemale]

80. How terribly sad and terrifying.

Sometimes love isn't enough, sad to say. I do believe that some sociopaths are made, but others are just born.

It sounds like that kid is past hope, and he's going to be a danger no matter who he's around.

[meow2u3]

81. Budding sociopathic kids are referred to as conduct disordered

via Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder

Conduct disorder is a psychiatric category to describe a pattern of repetitive behavior where the rights of others or the current social norms are violated. Symptoms include verbal and physical aggression, cruel behavior toward people and pets, destructive behavior, lying, truancy, vandalism, and stealing. After the age of 18, a conduct disorder may develop into antisocial personality disorder.

[nightrain]

119. think attachment disorder....

[Dorian Gray]

82. and now... dead.

However they ended up here, it's all very sad and tragic.

[pnwmom]

75. Why are you assuming this boy's guilt? First he spent twelve minutes saying

he didn't kill the men. But the police kept after him till he went along with their story.

And he didn't have a lawyer or a relative present. I'll be surprised if this "confession" stands.

[LisaL]

83. I think his "confession" is not convincing.

But police either has forensic evidence or it does not.

[ben_meyers]

30. KTAR Radio in phoenix is playing the audio from the entire

police interview tonight. It's 30 some minutes long. This is not news interview, it's the tape of the original police interview with the kid.

A local attorney opined that the tape was released because the authorities really don't know how to handle the situation, and by giving the tape to the media they have precluded the need for a prosecution as the information cannot be used in court now. Nobody seems to want to try him as an adult, and this gives them an out.

[LisaL]

32. Why won't it be able to be used in court?

Media plays 911 calls all the time and I don't think that prevents those calls from being used in court. Just because something is being made public doesn't mean it can't be used in court.

[Lex]

34. no guardian of the kid or attorney for the kid in the room during the

interrogation---it's no good

[AlCzervik]

36. He's 8 years old, a defense attorney will claim and rightfully so that no adult

for the child was present and that the confession was coerced and most likely the judge will throw out the video tape. Do you think an 8 year old understand what an interrogation is or what his rights are?

This is not about his guilt or innocence, it's about what the procedures are.

[babylonsister]

41. Except now, he's a sociopath on DU.

:crazy:

[Poll_Blind]

97. You got that right- and it is sickening to see. Critical thinking is something...

...which works against DU's popularity. It's taken me a long time to realize that but I've been here for years and it's just gotten worse and worse.

  Plus the level of ignorance, arrogant ignorance is intolerably high for a place filled with presumed-Progressives.

PB

[Phx_Dem]

105. He wasn't even read his Miranda rights

not that an 8 yo would understand them anyway.

[mymessageboardid]

39. Can you legally prosecute an 8 year old as an adult??

?? I didn't even know that was possible.

[ben_meyers]

43. Under Arizona law he can be charged as a juvenile now

but could be charged as an adult when he turns 15 or 16.

As to motive, the kid was punished by the stepmother for a school problem the day before the shootings and according to the kid he was mad at his father for going along with it.

[pnwmom]

76. That is an unfair law. Why should someone who committed a crime at age 8

ever be charged as an adult?

When I was eight my grandmother died -- and I remember being convinced that it was possible that she could come back to life. Eight year old children have barely gotten a grip on the meaning of death.

[LisaL]

87. Well my guess would be so such person isn't let out when he/she

turns 18.

[stillcool]

38. his life is over anyway..

just kill him and be done with it.

[riderinthestorm]

42. I've met and interacted with a child sociopath before.

My neighbors are wrestling with this dilemma.

The kid is not...normal. He's veerrryyy creepy. They adopted him when he was 2 years old from Russia and he's been difficult from the start. He was biting them, scratching, hitting, and tormenting the family dog from the start. That escalated into killing the kindergarten class pet, and the latest episode was him trying to strangle one of their grandchildren at a family gathering. He's now 10 years old.

These folks have raised 6 children to adulthood already, very successfully. I know them very well. This boy is trouble of an entirely different category than the usual "kid" troubles. If only he were just a simple firestarter, animal torturer! Nope, he goes way beyond that on the creepy scale.

They are seriously thinking of giving him up to the state. He was institutionalized last summer when he deliberately torched his father's car but this latest episode whereby he tried to strangle the 2 year old over some crayons has got them utterly freaked out.

I know that killing him is not the answer but please know that there are kids out there who are pretty mentally disturbed. From birth.

[stillcool]

45. I am familiar with children with mental...

problems as I was one. I was orphaned as a baby. When children, or animals even, have no contact with a mother they lack something, there is something that doesn't develop normally. Something about the most formative years being 1-3. If you throw in some physical and mental abuse you have a nice cocktail for a fucked up mind. I met a woman who was raped as an infant. Though she obviously had no memory of it, that injury manifested itself in all kinds of ways. In your friends case, the child may very well be better off as a ward of the state. What really kills me is that so much is known about emotional and mental issues, yet for many the help comes too late or not at all.

[riderinthestorm]

I am so, so very sorry about your trauma.

I can't even imagine the terror and trauma of being an orphan. I am utterly convinced that early, repetitive violence perpetuated upon children fucks them up for life. Add that onto the burden of "abandonment" (a serious issue that many adopted children wrestle with their whole lives even as they are 110% beloved by their adoptive parents), PLUS potential abuse - wow. Of course, it's a toxic brew to ingest - particularly for children.

Yes, my friends are convinced that the problems their child is experiencing are way beyond their means, and so they are seriously considering giving up their beloved child - in order to get him the help they desperately seek. Their counselor is quite agitated after this latest episode. It's a terrible situation all around.

I really hope you have found some peace. Your story brings tears to my eyes. Perhaps it's the late hour but I find myself so tired of child abuse stories. Not having/knowing your mother?! Ah! My heart breaks. Please know that if you could ever find your way toward me, there would be hugs, soup, and a listening ear.

Peace.

[stillcool]

57. that is very kind...

I was really fortunate to find my way through, and come out with a kind of unique perspective and passion on a whole host of social issues. I see me everywhere.

[FedUpWithIt All]

46. The 8 yr old being discussed has NO PRIOR troubling behavior. NONE.

As you yourself have pointed out, children that are troubled are often recognized to some degree in their earlier years. It is highly unlikely that this child is a sociopath that had no prior behavioral issues prior to methodically killing two adults with no justification. There would have been SOMETHING.

[FedUpWithIt All]

44. Innocent until proven guilty? WTF. Never allowed to roam in public?

If it looks as if he is lying easily PERHAPS it is because he is telling the truth. The police made a HUGE mistake interrogating a child with no professionals available.

This child precisely retraced his return home in the EXACT chronological order of someone who walked into a crime scene. Do you know how difficult this is for some adults? He not only described the actions of returning home but he related the victims in the exact reverse of the supposed attack (ie. noticed victim by door first and went to find father).

If this YOUNG child harmed his father first his mind would lock on that FIRST. Yet he was completely accurate to the order of events he would have experienced walking into the house with the victims already shot. That is a lot more telling than people might realize.

Truth is that the police had better have rock solid evidence if they wish to try and continue charging this child. If they do not they are completely responsible for the added lifetime issues this boy will face as a result of their incompetence.

[ecstatic]

47. Maybe I watched one too many Omen like movies

I guess it is possible that he changed his story to please the cops. I just heard the clip on Aaron Cooper when he said he shot his dad to stop him from suffering. It just struck me as odd. Plus his question about going to juvie was strange as well. And he didn't seem to show any emotions either... :shrug:

[FedUpWithIt All]

63. I disagree about the emotion.

He sounds like a very little boy who just suffered a severe trauma and is being questioned (in a leading manner) by strangers.

http://www.kiak.com/cc-common/news/videos/player.html?mid=audio/11-08/8-year-old11-18.wmv&redir=yes

We have to be especially careful before condemning this boy without all the evidence.

The first time this boy admits to shooting a gun is AFTER the officer asked him if he shot the gun because "you were afraid someone was gonna hurt your dad or something?"

It sounds as if this boy thinks that they are insinuating that he should have tried to defend his father. He then says, "I think i might have shot the gun... I think so. Because i..i think i went into the house and i think the car was still driving down the street and i think i shot at the car."

This comes up ONLY AFTER they intimated that the boy should have tried to protect his father. Prior to this the boy adamantly refused to shooting a gun regardless of the fact that the officers were telling him that they would definitively be able to determine if he had through residue testing. Still no admission until the officer suggested that shooting would be something a person would do when they were "afraid someone was gonna hurt" their loved ones.

Later when they ask him if he "accidentally" shot Tim he sounds shocked when asking why they think he would do that. Just after that they say "I dunno maybe you were just playing with the gun and it went off accidentally or something." The way the boy says "no" after this is why i think they should have been treading VERY carefully in dealing with a child so young. With that "no", it is clear he begins to see the picture they are painting. All of the sudden the story is off and running...all over the place. It seems he hesitates until he gets a sense of what they want from him then he adds a bit more.

His story only firms up AFTER they begin nodding and confirming in tone and mannerisms that what he is saying is what they want to hear. He insists UNTIL pressed by them, that he placed the gun in the closet. They basically tell him that the gun was found on a "cage" and ask him to confirm this one troublesome point so they can wrap it up neatly.

They are reassuring until the last when they suddenly begin suddenly talking about consequences.

Why haven't they released the test results? Why on earth would they release this video of this child?

I don't know for sure if the boy did this or not. I think the wife's claims that that her husband got off the phone to help the boy is incriminating but the fact that they knew it going into the "interview" suggests that they intended to try and get a "confession". Under those circumstances they should have had a representative. The way it was all dealt with can have serious consequences for the boy (whether he is guilty or not). No matter what the outcome of this case, this child's rights need to be respected, just as they would be for an adult. And one of those is the right of innocence until guilt is proven.

[LisaL]

48. If they did the gun powder residue test on his hands they

should know if he shot the gun or not.

[FedUpWithIt All]

51. Yes and if they had that evidence they would have KNOWN ot have an attorney present.

Seems that blood splatters and residue on the boy were not readily evident. Curious after 8 shots.

[LisaL]

52. Residue is not going to be evident on anyone until the test is done.

It's not something you are going to see with a naked eye. With a rifle, blood spatter might not be there if the person was shot from a distance.

[FedUpWithIt All]

55. There are ways to detect immediately if a gun was recently shot UNLESS someone attempts to clean up....

This boy supposedly shot the father in a hallway at the top of a staircase...4 TIMES. He then shot the second man 4 TIMES. The house is not a exceptionally large home. I think it is a stretch to assume that this child did not have any visible blood splatters on him. The police should be aware or such subtle signs.

Regardless, the police really screwed up and i think the consequences will be far reaching one way or another.

[LisaL]

56. To detect a gun powder residue a test needs to be done.

You are not going to see the residue with your naked eye.
Considering they told the kid during the interview that they could find gun powder residue on his clothes if he fired the gun, I bet they did do the test after the interview.

[FedUpWithIt All]

61. I KNOW that residue is not visible. I am not talking about "residue". Have you ever shot a rifle?

There is a smell. After 8 shots in a close area there might be a distinct smell on the shooter. There would be a TON of blood from chest and head shots. We are talking about a CHILD here. There would be a TON of evidence if he committed this crime and much of it would have been visible in the first moments.

They told the child that the victim's wife heard him being called by the boy before the shot. They said it during the interrogation and yet they did not consider the boy suspect enough to have representation? They were accusing him with information they obtained BEFORE they sat that child in the room to question him and as such they should have provided the child with ADULT representation. It is the law.

[LisaL]

62. They didn't tell him victim's wife heard him being called by the boy.

That came from NYT article.
As for shooting a rifle, I've shot a rifle (target shooting) and did not notice any smell.

[FedUpWithIt All]

64. They mentioned the person that Tim was talking to on the phone.

11:40 And they tell him that the person on the phone told them that he shot them on "accident". They said that "Tim told them it was...".


http://www.azfamily.com/video/allnewsheadlines-index.html?nvid=305037

[Doremus]

54. To say nothing of the fact that there would be a murderer running around free

while an 8yo takes the punishment.

Like you, I take this with a huge grain of salt.

[Seldona]

71. I agree.

Kind of spooky the way alot of people just assume he did it and jump on this or that bandwagon. We just don't have enough information.

Very disheartening.

[mudesi]

58. He is NOT A MURDERER

He is a child. He doesn't/didn't know any better.

I'm amazed by some DUers. I really am.

[Aviation Pro]

59. He is a child and accused of a heinous crime....

...he will still be a child and a murderer if he is convicted of the crime he is accused of. Chances are this won't go to trial.

[pnwmom]

77. To be a murderer you must have an understanding of death and an intention

to bring it about.

That is assuming a lot for an eight year old. My grandmother died when I was eight and I remember thinking she might come back to life. I couldn't believe death had to be permanent.

[Dr Fate]

67. All I see is 2 chicks with giant hairdos yapping.

Do they ever even show the kid in this video?

[Egnever]

69. This story smells

I am not buying this fucking story for a second.

I dont think this kid did it.

[TexasObserver]

73. The police completely botched the case.

There are three possibilities:

1. The child is a dangerous sociopath who will never be right, and should probably never be allowed to mix with the general population again. After a Guardian Ad Litem represents him, after he gets decent defense counsel, a judge will order him subjected to psych exams. Those will tell us if he's dangerous.

2. The child was acting out based upon something terrible the father and other man had done, a form a justifiable homicide.

3. The child is completely innocent, and a couple of boorish detectives manipulated the things the kid said, and led him to make such statements.

We know one thing for certain: the police thoroughly screwed up this case by interviewing the kid without a parent, a guardian, an Ad Litem, or anyone else with authority to waive the child's rights.

The taped confession and any evidence derived from it are OUT.

[pnwmom]

74. In the first 12 minute tape he denied the murders.

But the police kept talking to him, without an attorney or relative present, until he went along with their story -- on the 2nd tape.

I think you are jumping to conclusions, and this was grossly mishandled by the police.

[LisaL]

84. Well look at the timing.

Seems like the kid was let out of school earlier than the murders took place. He claims he walked around before going home. His first story was that he got home and saw the car speeding away, and his father and renter were already shot. But would such a time line make sense? And then there is renter's wife, who apparently was on the phone with the renter at the time the father was shot, and apparently heard the renter say he was being called by the kid.

[NNN0LHI]

85. kick for later viewing I got 2 hungry dogs and a cat on my ass for me to feed them now

[rug]

88. If you've already concluded he's a murderer, why don't you move on to discuss methods of execution?

[mitchum]

103. Drown him in Kool Aid...

beat him with Twizzlers
death by teddy bear
I dunno...
something kid friendly and age appropriate...

[gollygee]

90. You mean the 8-year-old who is accused of murder?

How about if he gets a trial first?

[WolverineDG]

91. Has he been convicted yet?

If not, he's an accused murderer. And what about "innocent until proven guilty," or is that only reserved for you or when someone you know or support is accused of a crime? :eyes:

dg

[Fumesucker]

96. is that only reserved for you or when someone you know or support is accused of a crime?

Ding Ding Ding...

It's so easy to spot the vengeful ones, eh?

"If they weren't guilty, they wouldn't be suspects" -Ed Meese

[WolverineDG]

106. Believe it or not, that mental attitude is very prevalent on DU nt

[BlooInBloo]

95. I don't care if he sounded like Christopher Walken. He's still not an adult.

[slackmaster]

101. I'm glad I missed that one

Psycho kids scare teh bejeepers out of me.

[Uncle Joe]

110. I believe the judge will likely throw his confession out of court.

The police or prosecutors or whoever interviewed him abused his rights, they manipulated an 8 eight year old without first giving him access to some sort of adequate responsible adult or legal representation.

[TwilightGardener]

112. Regardless, at 8 he doesn't understand the ramifications of what he did--

this is why children should never, ever have access to firearms. I don't care how many people on DU were "taught by their deddies" to respect firearms and use them properly--technical knowledge of them, and abstract knowledge of their ability to kill, does not matter when a child doesn't have control over his own imagination or impulses. Children are simply too immature to be allowed near guns, it's that simple.