How do you feel about criticisms of Barack Obama?

[leftofthedial]

PE Obama has made several picks, and is rumored to have "favorites" for some others.

Should DUers be allowed to express dissatisfaction over one or more of PE Obama's choices?

OR

Should DUers keep dissatisfaction to themselves until after the Inauguration in January?

OR

Should DUers NEVER criticize PE or President Obama?

OR

Do you have some other guideline for criticisms?

[JI7]

1. i think most of the criticism is stupid

but i don't think people should be banned unless they are just trolling.

[Joe Fields]

5. Ah, but therin lies the rub...

If you've been on this board any length of time, you know that ANY criticism is trolling.

[leftofthedial]

6. how does one determine "stupid"?

how does one determine "trolling"?

I've been called a concern troll about fifty times. I've been here for 7 years plus and have over 35,000 posts. It seems to me that the "concern troll" label sometimes is thrown around here to avoid an uncomfortable truth or to stifle argument before it can happen. Classic ad hominem.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Depends ENTIRELY on the nature of the critcism and its context.

[leftofthedial]

7. how so?

[BlooInBloo]

Dude - I *get* that simplistic thinking demands easy general rules, so that actual thought....

isn't required.

There just ain't any for this sort of issue. That's a flaw of simplistic thinking, not my explanation.

[leftofthedial]

22. Respectfully, that's avoiding the subject.

There are guidelines. Even you must have some threshold for a given criticism.

For example, would you object if I said that supporting Lieberman might encourage other conservative "democrats" to cause problems for Obama's future agenda?

How about if I said that I was troubled by the Rahm Emanuel pick because he's DLC?

How about if I claimed that Obama was shiftless, low-class and probably a gangster?

Those are not the same kinds of claims.

***Hint for the idiot literalists in the room: I totally DO NOT believe one of the above claims.***

[BlooInBloo]

25. No, it's the rejection of a bad question.

[leftofthedial]

26. you're so cute when you're rude.

:-)

:hug:

[BlooInBloo]

28. Lemme tell ya - the chicks LOVE it!

:rofl:

[Two Americas]

15. in whose eyes?

Who is to pass judgment on the nature of the criticism and its context?

As leftofthedial says, the concern troll label as often as not is thrown around in response to opinions that make people uncomfortable for the purpose of squelching discussion and smearing the person expressing the unwanted opinion.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Anybody who speaks in the present indicative is a judge. Durr.

[Clovis Sangrail]

3. *Everybody* should look at pols critically - ALWAYS /nt

[treestar]

4. Free speech and all

But sheesh, it's annoying to see posts already throwing Obama under the bus! Express some dissatisfaction OK, but some of it is over the top. Like we can't even have a week to just be happy.

Not liking Eric Holder? Try John Ashcroft or Gonzalez or Woo or the like. Anything is an improvement. Anything!

[leftofthedial]

8. My car had a flat tire.

The tire joint on the corner sent me a flyer telling me how great their tire repairs were. "We'll give a repair you can believe in," they said.

I took it in and they worked on it. Now it's not flat, but it only holds half the pressure it is supposed to, so my car pulls constantly to the right and my gas mileage is for shit. I guess that's an improvement, so I should just be glad it isn't completely flat anymore?

[TahitiNut]

12. Let some air out of the left tire.

:shrug:

[leftofthedial]

13. that would keep me from going around in circles anyway.

LOL

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. Buy a new tire.

:shrug:

[treestar]

35. Bad analogy

You'd be saying the POTUS has to do everything the way you like it or the country won't run. Just not so. The country managed to "run" in a fashion even under *!

[leftofthedial]

43. I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm just saying sometimes one is coerced into buying a half-full tire.

[notadmblnd]

11. I think the problem is- that some people are not seeing change

All they are seeing so far is a shuffling of chairs. Calling previous admins people in is not change. Retaining this admins people in the new administration, is not change, and keeping Lieberman as the head of a very important committee after the traitorous behavior he's engaged in against Obama; well, that's not change either. Same old players, different seats doesn't give one much confidence that real chnge will actually occur.

[leftofthedial]

16. that's definitely the way I see it.

so far, the only changes are:

the party in charge (which, given the "democrat"'s record the last 8 years is dubious at best)

we now have a differently skinned President (remarkable, hugely inspirational development for this country, but not directly a change in ANY policy)

It's pretty much the usual business as usual, with the "democratic" party apparently shifted even farther to the right.

[notadmblnd]

24. It was my fear with both Hillary and Barrack

I hope I'm wrong.

[treestar]

36. "Change" never meant merely new people in the jobs!

At least it's change from Repukes to Democrats!

Just merely the same people - and geez even they've learned something in the last 8 years - doesn't mean they will do exactly the same thing as was done in the Clinton Administration. And for that matter, the Clinton administration is much better than the past 8 years.

These people are analogous to the tools to use to carry something out. Newbies in all those jobs may not be the best way to carry it out.

[notadmblnd]

45. Every election cycle for the last 40 years,we've gone through this

A shuffling of the chairs, so to speak. It's basically the same group of people exiting or re entering the government sector. I don't believe for one minute that America's talent is limited to the same few corporate board rooms. Yeah, so lets have more of the same people who have been setting the agenda for the last 40 years continue to do so.. they've done a pretty good job so far haven't they? I'm sure they'll continue to bring the change we need.:sarcasm:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. We are not Republicans

We are allowed to question.

[TahitiNut]

10. Reasoned criticism of his actions is fine with me. Attacks on his character are not.

There's a BIG difference between dissent and vitriol, disagreement and smears, attacking the message and attacking the messenger. Sadly, Cheney/Bush/Gonzo/Rumsfeld/et. al. have so deserved hearty condemnation due to a vast pattern of appalling and criminal behavior that we become accustomed to vitriolic language ... language that hardly suffices to portray how despicable they are. NONETHELESS, DUers seem to almost immediately attack the PERSON in far too many instances, particularly other DUers. That goes beyond reason and approaches the sociopathic.

[leftofthedial]

18. I haven't seen any attacks on the person

I've seen plenty of criticisms of his staff picks or recommendations though, many of which were shut down by overzealous mods or wild attacks by the "concern-troll" trolls.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. I think the biggest criticism Obama has received to date has been ...

keeping LIEBERMAN.

[KG]

19. some people 'need to watch what they say, watch what they do

This is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.' :eyes:

[leftofthedial]

23. thank you for the warning reverend comrade

[southerncrone]

20. 8 yrs of * & Darth rule have made you paranoid.

We should not feel like we shouldn't voice our opinions on Obama's choices.
We have no real say in them. But it is a way to express the opinions of the party worker bees.
It's kinda what blogs are about.

[stillcool]

21. My guideline...

I don't use the words "should", "never", or "always". People can say, and do say, whatever they want for whatever reasons they have. Some posters are like one-trick ponies, and if they have nothing nasty to say about a certain someone, or a certain party, they say nothing at all. And sometimes DU really sucks. When I find the piss me off ratio is too high, I take a break.

[LynneSin]

27. Can we do it without having 8 thousand new threads on the same subject

Thank god the US voting population does not consist only of DUers or somethings I think this country would be screwn.

[FrenchieCat]

29. Fuck it.....let's complain....cause that is what we do really well.

let's redo the Election and this time vote for McCain/Palin.

or better yet, let's keep Bush up in there....

[leftofthedial]

30. so, shall I put you down for "Never"?

[FrenchieCat]

31. Here's my plan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7893676

[leftofthedial]

42. cool. thanks for sharing.

so, I'll put you down for "NEVER, except when totally warranted."

Umm, what does that mean exactly?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. Barack wouldn't be welcome here, because of his opposition to gay marriage.

[Skittles]

33. you 5% who think we should never criticize Obama

you're no better than bush-sniffing repukes

[Individualist]

44. Hear, hear!

"My party right or wrong" is repugnant.

[upi402]

34. what? 10 people want to squelch criticism of an elected official?

Is this kinda Freeperville-ish?

[treestar]

37. No, the comment is to the effect that it's been less than two weeks

and people are already complaining.

that's not Freeperish - you can bet your last paycheck they were still gloating at this point in 2004. Give Freepers their due, they know how to be happy and how to win!

[upi402]

41. we are smarter than freeps... maybe? what'd they "win"? A ruinded USA

is what they "won". And we are continuing down the road of corporatism. Sometimes you just have to accept that things are just not what you dreamed they were. And the evidence points to waking up from that dream and getting to work changing direction.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Criticism Is One Thing. Totally Irrational, Borderline Insane And Obsessive Anger Over Anything Is

another.

Many here are guilty of the latter. Bitch, whine, complain, moan, groan; it's all they know how to do. So many of the complaints are mind numbingly dumb.

[alarimer]

39. There's too much "You're either with us or against us" bullshit.

All of sudden we are not allowed to criticize and voice our disappointment. At least according to some- it's by no means a universal thing on this site.

It's very important that we make our voices heard even now and not be complacent even though we have won. The Lieberman thing is a case in point. If we (the netroots, the left, whomever) can get him defeated (despite the likelihood of Democrats campaigning for him- it's just a big good old boys club after all) we can show the party that their days may be numbered too. THAT'S the power we have.

[baldguy]

40. If you think an office holder is doing things wrong - IT'S YOUR CIVIC DUTY TO COMPLAIN!

I don't care who it is.