The cost of NOT bailing out the Big 3?

[trof]

What's the cost to us of hundreds of thousands of laid off auto workers, and all the employees of smaller supplier companies, collecting unemployment insurance?

What's the cost to us if they qualify for food stamps?

What's the cost to us of all those unemployed workers losing their medical benefits and going on MedicAid?

What's the cost to the retail sector when all these folks quit buing anything except the bare necessities?

What's the cost to individual retired investors who own stock/bonds in the Big 3?

What's the cost to legions of pension plans who are invested in the Big 3?


Somebody with more patience than I have could probably ferret out the numbers on the web, but, in the long run, it might be a lot cheaper (and way more cost effective) to bail them out now and keep them in business until they can begin to produce more efficient vehicles that people will buy again.

Am I nuts?
:shrug:

[liberal N proud]

1. You are asking the right questions

Congress is just not listening. AGAIN!

[LaurenG]

2. Don't forget - the cost of not needing all the parts that are manufactured

that won't be needed and the food stamps the manufacturing employees will need, oh and the delivery people like UPS and trucking companies who won't need to deliver anymore and the way the domino effect will work it's way into each of our lives. Yeah the cost is much greater than many imagine. :(

[OhioChick]

3. Very good points.

Should we let the Big 3 go under, I truly believe it will be the downfall of the U.S.

[ellenfl]

4. it will definitely be the downfall of the union. eom

[Old Codger]

5. The pensions

For that cost look at your pocket book, as I understand it any retirement pensions are picked up by Government, that would be the taxpayer branch of said government. As for all the other stuff, it would (IMHO) be "trickle down" economics again the fallout will most likely "trickle" or actually most likely would be more of a torrent down on all of us.. Job losses, and financial ruin for many many smaller suppliers.., unemployment funds going away fast, medicare failing fast.. Overall a major disaster in the making. The resultant losses would make 25 billion look like a bargain.

[Greyhound]

6. A UAW/US government partnership makes a bailout unnecessary and simultaneously

eliminates the root cause of the problem. UAW brings the know-how and the government knows how to run huge bureaucracies better than any other organization on earth.
:kick:

[PVnRT]

9. Are the engineers for the car companies UAW members?

[Greyhound]

10. Don't know if they are officially, but I used UAW as short-hand for all

the people that actually do the work that goes into producing vehicles. Basically we rid the company of executives and shareholders, the double drain that caused most of the problems.

[knitter4democracy]

13. No. They can't be.

My brother wasn't when he was an engineer at Ford.

[jjanpundt]

7. What happens when the states run out of money because of lost

revenue? What happens when they run out of unemployment benefit funds? What services will be cut so that states don't go bankrupt?

[knitter4democracy]

14. Michigan's already mostly there.

Not that the feds give a crap or anyone, really. Michigan's dying, as are most of the rust belt states, though we led this recession. I guess many here think it's fine to let a state die.

[MissMarple]

8. They have to structure something. But I hope it is better than this last corporate handout.

[pampango]

11. Not bailing may end up costing more than bailing, but it is still a kick in the ass

to have industry executives say "We ran this industry into the ground and it's going to cost you $25 billion (which you may or may not get back) to see if we can turn this thing around. And don't get any ideas about not bailing us out, because we have messed things up so bad that it will cost you even more if you don't bail us out."

If it was a smaller, less consequential industry we would tell them to take a flying leap. But it's the auto industry, so they will get their bailout, if not now, then when Obama takes over. At the rate they are burning through their money, I understand that the $25 billion will be used up in 3-6 months. It's not likely that the economy will have turned around by then or that any retooling of their factories will have been completed, so they will need another round of bailouts.

[Sanctified]

12. Cars are currently not selling nor will they be for a long time.

If we are planning to bail out the auto industry we better be ready to hold them afloat for the next 5-10 years with tax payer money. People are not buying new cars in today's economy and even if they wanted to buy one good luck getting a loan since the banking industry is refusing to part with all that money they just received and looks like they are going to be hoarding.

[closeupready]

15. Not entirely true. Some dealerships are doing okay.

Though I'll concede that the industry is not healthy currently.

[BrightKnight]

16. What is the cost to non UAW auto workers?

UAW influence extends way beyond the big 3.

[trof]

17. Jesus, these Big 3 CEOs are their own worst enemies.

Watching the hearings.
They each flew to Washington in their own corporate jets.
No plans to sell the jets.
Come ON, GUYS.
:GRR:

[Old Codger]

18. Bail em out..

Give them loans at a reasonable interest rate, tie it too total restructuring of the corporate structure. Make their pay rates contingent on performance,if they don't turn the corner they are gone... We (we being our congress) GAVE wall street 350 billion and have no idea where it went, and that was given to entities that produce nothing but paper, pay themselves HUGE salaries for doing so and whine like hell when they don't get their way.. if we had to save something I would think the auto companies should come ahead of wall street or at least equal

[1776Forever]

19. These are the raw facts! Ohio saying they will be out of Unemployment money by Dec.!

What is next? This will be a down hill snowball that gets bigger and BIGGER as it goes downhill! It is all in the details and that is what will make it or break it! I say go for it - what do we have to loose? Over $500 Billion has been spent in the War in Iraq and how many Billions have we lost there to the corrupt base of George W. Bush? Try 23 Billion for a start:

.........

http://centerforinvestigativereporting.org/blogpost/20080613billionslostiniraqcouldbequotthelargestwarprofiteeringinhistoryquot

Billions lost in Iraq could be "the largest war profiteering in history"

About $23 billion may have been lost, stolen or not properly accounted for in Iraq, reports the BBC's news magazine show, Panorama.

It's not the first investigative report detailing lost billions in Iraq. Back in February 2006, 60 Minutes reported that the Coalition Provisional Authority couldn't account for nearly $9 billion. And late last month, a congressional oversight committee held a hearing saying much the same thing: billions of American taxpayer funds were not properly accounted for in Iraq.

But $23 billion is a staggering amount, nearly three times the amount the Pentagon's Inspector General reported in last month's House hearing. To put $23 billion in perspective: more than 100 nations produced less than that in 2006, says the World Bank (countries like Kenya, Costa Rica, Iceland, Uruguay and Lebanon all reported lower GDPs in 2006 than the U.S. government has potentially lost in Iraq since the war began in 2003); the U.S. Department of Justice spent about $23 billion in the 2007 fiscal year; and it's a few billion more than Coca-Cola and McDonald's reported in total revenue last year.

[nichomachus]

20. Can we please

just declare "universal single-payer health care" as "too big to fail." We can then throw a couple of trillion dollars at it -- and many of the other problems in the country will be on their way to solution.

[yodermon]

21. Then these entities are so powerful they are the functional equivalent of a government.

If they are too big to fail without literally taking down the entire economy, then they are too big to exist. Split them up.