Do you personally know any undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America?

[shireen]

Does anyone personally know undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America? What are their lives like, day to day? Do they have a network of contacts that helps them move across the country to seek work? How hard is it to cross the border? How do they send money home? What kind of social support system do they have?

I'd really like to know more about them as a people, as a community, and not get into a debate about immigration policy. The one thing I know for sure, about this issue, is that my heart goes out to them.

[Ian David]

1. I think PBS did a documentary about that stuff. n/t

[juno jones]

2. I once worked in a kitchen that had a number of

undocumented workers. I remember hearing once that they did have contacts that got them jobs, and many of them had forged paperwork provided by those contacts as well. Many saved money by living in communal arrangements with other workers, which may have also provided some social support as well.

My experience might not have been typical tho. This was in CA bay area during the Death Squad 80's and I suspect many of these guys were part of the 'sanctuary' networks that were trying to save political opponents of right-wing regimes in Central Am and South Am by means of 'underground railroad'. Most of them had been grad or doctorate students, one even a medical doctor who was not licensed here.

The experience sure put another face on 'illegal' immigration for me.

[panader0]

3. Not undocumented personally

I have worked with undocumented guys a lot around here (20 miles from Mexico). Most of the guys have green cards, giving them the right to work here. Most are good workers. We tease them some times, saying "La Migra!" (Immigration) and they get nervous.
I have 32 acres of thick mesquite, near a pond, and the illegals come through here all the time. One morning I saw a dozen or so walking quietly through the trees, two young mothers with babies. About once a week, I see a Border Patrol vehicle with 10-12 illegals sitting on the edge of the road, busted. I feel for these people, as the reasons they came had to be very serious, or they wouldn't have braved the challenge. On the other hand, we need to have secure borders, not just from these workers, but from those who might be real threats to the US. Also, I am bummed by the trash these illegals leave everywhere, especially by the river, and in the mountains. My buddy's wife is the head nurse in Douglas, Az., and many times, she said, expectant mothers from across the line will wait until their water breaks and cross the line so their hospital stay will be free and their child an American citizen. It is a complex problem the source of which is mostly economic disparity between neighboring countries. Soon we will be headed south, and maybe we should just trade countries.

[heliarc]

33. That's funny.

I hate the trash that a lot of American citizens throw everywhere around where I live.

[Cleita]

4. I knew a lot of them when I worked in the restaurant business.

I never met a group of people who were as hard working and reliable. Most restaurant workers are notorious for being unreliable as most of them do it while trying to get a better job like in the movie industry so there is a big turnover among the legal employees. This is why many restaurants started hiring them to begin with. Most of them had families back in Mexico and other Central American countries that they sent money to. I was shocked at how many of them were teenagers. When I talked with them they told me stories of having to quit school at a very young age to go to work for something like $.75 a day, not an hour to help out the family. No wonder they are willing to risk all by coming here to get even minimum wage, which is more than they can earn at home. There is a network of safe houses that they live in when they first come here. It's a community that helps each other.

Unfortunately, many of them are exploited by their own as well. I'll never forget a poor guy named Mateo, whom I discovered was working for a Mexican American gardener. He didn't know any better and was basically a slave. He was given a rug to sleep on the cement floor in a garage where they kept their gardening equipment and some money for food. I was able to introduce him to some of the restaurant workers who took him in and got him a job in the network for minimum wage and a place to live. Yes, every time there is an opening for a job somewhere the grapevine knows about and it's filled pretty quickly. I know my restaurant had no lack of new employees to take over when someone left to go back to Mexico.

I also found out that Spanish is not their first language but the language spoken in their villages, the language of the indigenous people who were conquered by the Spaniards turning them into peons, a little better than slaves. So most of these so called "illegals" are really Native Americans who aren't welcome in their own lands.

[heliarc]

35. Quiche might be a dish at your restaurant...

but its also the proud language of the ancient civilizations in Mexico. It is most probably a derivation of the Quiché your restaurant workers were speaking.

[Hekate]

37. Not really. Pronounced "keesh", Quiche Lorraine was introduced as a French dish & popular in the 60s

It became popular in restaurants in the 1960s and 1970s. As a custard-based pie, it really is more French than Mexican.

Hekate

[heliarc]

54. I was joking...

Of course I know that Quiche the food and Quiché the Language are different words with different origins...

But I also know that there are Mexican American chefs of varying immigration status that perform very highly in almost any cuisine... not just Mexican faire... but I guess your restaurant serves Mexican food then?

[Hekate]

59. Sorry I didn't get your joke. The sushi chefs at the Japanese restaurant we go to are Hispanic

So much of the population of California is Hispanic already that I am not surprised anywhere they are represented. At the last US census it turned out that 50% of the elementary school children in Santa Barbara County are Latino/Hispanic origin. Needless to say, they are, in a sense, my future.

Hekate

[tekisui]

5. They are all around you, most likely.

I worked with some undocumented workers a few years ago. THey taught me Spanish and were the kindest group of guys I have ever had the pleasure of working with. THey live close to each other in supportive communities. Crossing the border is not easy or safe, they told me stories about having to wait in camps for the right time.

Here in the US, they told me that people don't look them in the eye, don't talk to them, it is like they don't exist. It was an eye-opening experience to see how they live.

[ret5hd]

6. neighbors, co-workers, etc.

Day to day, i don't see them living much different than me. I imagine their mental state is much like mine back in the day...fearful of every cop, etc.

[snappyturtle]

7. I can only answer a couple of your questions. They send money

home for a fee at our HEB grocery store's customer service desk. They bring cash and I guess it's electronically transferred. In my mother in law's neighborhood in Houston they live 3-4 families per house.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Quite a few actually

Most are hardworking, low profile, dedicated to their families and eager to get papers so they can stay here legally.

[Skittles]

56. ditto

[dkofos]

9. Yes

[Johonny]

24. on the yes line

[gollygee]

10. I don't think so

People wouldn't necessarily tell me.

[Greyhound]

11. When I lived in LA I knew many. Their lives were pretty much the same as other

people's. Most of my friends from Central America got pissed because everybody called them Mexican. Getting across the border was easy, but that was before we went completely bat-shit crazy with the militarism so I'd guess it's harder now.

Western Union was typically used to send money home.

The support system was usually based on family.

I believe that SoCal is probably the easiest place for them to come to as it has many areas that are almost exclusively Hispanic.

I only knew 3 people that wanted to stay here, all the others were here for the money and planned to go back home someday.

Does that cover it?

[RagAss]

12. Back in the 70's as a teen, I worked with a number of undocumented construction workers from ...

Mexico and Central America......great guys...hearts of gold...salt of our earth....my life is better because of the time I spent working side by side with them.

edit spelling

[lame54]

13. Is this a raid?

[Karenina]

44. This is the INTERNET!

;-)

[JeanGrey]

14. Yes an entire group right across the street. They move people

in and then they move on and more take their place. Originally there were one couple and two small kids and this Halloween they had 8 kids. I see them going in and out all the time - their daughter told me that these are family members and "friends" they help out. So I imagine it is a "clearing house" of some kind.

[RB TexLa]

15. yes

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. Yes, I know quite a few.

They are friends, they are co-workers, and I have hired them from the Day Labor program.

I can only speak about those I personally know. They are very hardworking, family people. They have come here for the opportunity to work for more money than they would ever see back home, so they can send money back to support their familes. Many of them want to go back home when they have finished what needs doing for their families. Some -- especially those who have American-born chldren -- would like to stay here and get some sort of legal status.

Documents are fairly easy to find. Any city that has a large Latino community is very easy to blend into and find the right people to provide what you need. Just about everything you can need can be brought for the right price. False Social Security numbers are usually the easiest to get and just about all you need to get a job going. If the SS sends a letter to your employer that the SS number is not valid, another number is proved and it will keep the SS off their backs for another year or so.

The people I know tend not to be migrants -- they have come to SF knowing undocumented workers is fairly low on our priorities -- and many have been here for over a decade.

Two of my close friends are brothers who came here ten years ago. For years they lived in a studio apartment in the Tenderloin -- they even shared a bed the entire time. They worked at what we would think as low wage jobs, but it enabled them to send money back to Mexico so the rest of their family could be well taken care of. Their aging parents have been able to build their own home, get healthcare, and their younger siblings have gone to school because of their work here. One brother plans of going home, the other is marrieid and would like to stay here. The saddest thing is they have not been able to see their famlies that entire time. It is too expensive for the family to come here, and too dangerous for them to go back home.

Because they are so family/church oriented, the social support system tends to be very strong. Community is very important in their lives.

Again, this is just the people I know in a large, urban environemnt.

[heliarc]

17. I knew a guy once...

At the time I had a roommate who had spent time in Mexico for a while... while she had been in Mexico she dated a guy over there.

While we were living together (she and I weren't romantically involved, just living together)... He showed up unannounced. They appeared to be very much in love. He moved in. He got a job busing tables at a nearby restaurant... this was in Los Angeles. He had friends in LA too that were both documented and undocumented. He crossed the border in San Diego. Didn't own a car so I assumed that he did it on foot. Resourceful and intelligent guy, about 22 years old. He struck me as a "momio" or mummy... that's a Chilean term for a conservative. He had a lot of very loosely informed opinions about politics, but didn't really know a lot about what he was talking about. Spoke broken but functional English. He thought Pinochet had been really good for the Chilean economy, and that it justified the coup in 1973. Idiocy like that.

I didn't like the guy. He seemed to be an opportunist like a lot of guys that age of any immigration status. He was very Macho, and his small stature made it worse. One day he joked that a friend of his had to go back to Mexico cause the friend had gotten a girl pregnant. He was selling some stuff to put together money for the trip. It was funny to him. I remember being really offended by that. For whatever reason my roommate who was a well-educated student at UCLA didn't see through this guy. She really seemed smitten with him. They smoked a bit of weed. From what I could tell he worked hard at his job. He helped my roommate make rent.

No intent here to say that he was similar to any other illegal immigrant to the US. He had more in common with a lot of the phrat boys at my college in New England than he might have in common with other immigrants... but he was a lot like the machista naturalized Cuban americans I knew in Miami.

Just a jerk Cassanova.

[Cleita]

21. A lot of Chileans thought Pinochet was good for the economy

including my mother. So don't diss him on that. At first his reforms seemed to stimulate the economy more particularly lifting the Draconian tariffs on imports that helped flood the stores with goods from other countries. It had the appearance of making Chile seem prosperous like the United States. I think it's when the stories of arrests, torture and people being disappeared that people took a better look at Pinochet. I love Allende and was horrified that he was assassinated. I wondered why they didn't just wait to vote him out in the next election, if he screwed up, like is done in a democracy. A lot of conservatives were suspicious of him because he was a communist. It was only after the fact that we discovered that the United States was behind the assassination. The Chileans would never have done it. They would have voted him out.

[heliarc]

31. I'm Chilean by the way...

"Lots of chileans" are fascists too... The "stories" of arrests and torture didn't come after the economic news. He killed 5000 people outright and tortured 80,000 more starting on day one of the coup. My parents knew about that before there was any "economic success" because they tried to visit their friends at the Estadio Nacional, and looked for them floating down the Rio Mapocho. The economic "success" has been largely overhyped. Santiago has become a sprawling excess of industry that may create low paying jobs, but "economic success" in Friedman's terms doesn't translate to an economy that benefits the people as a whole, or increases the standard of living for the majority of people. I have family that still live in the poblaciones, and it wasn't Pinochet that provided them with an adequate standard of living or a decent wage. Allwyn and Bachelet have done more for the people than Pinochet did.

And economic success compared to what? An economy under Allende that had been sabotaged by blockade and destabilization tactics from the US and others abroad? "Stimulating the economy" is easy when people in the Nixon Administration are stockholders in ITT and pours 7 million US taxpayer dollars into destabilization efforts while arming fascist paramilitary operations, assassinating military leaders, and freezing goods distribution. After that kind of friendly American diplomacy, "stimulating" an economy is a piece of cake.

They didn't wait to vote Allende out because he wouldn't have been voted out. The Parliamentary elections just before the coup increased the Unity Popular's representation in the body by a few percentage points. Allende was gaining popular support. Nixon, Kissinger, and the CIA knew that so they killed Schneider and backed one of the most egregious destructions of democracy ever.

I dissed him because he had the gall to tell me that the torture of my family and friends was justified so that the landed aristocracy could get their copper mines back while destroying a proud democracy.

Let me ask you this. If some asshole wandered into your house from another country and told you that it was ok that Schwartzkoff took over the US government after killing Petraeus because the economy was failing, and you knew that Putin had been starving the American economy for years before he staged the coup and sent the US military -now supreme commanders- on a torturous rampage. And that that had taken away your right to vote, your citizenship, and a few family members or friends, how would you feel that he told you it was all justified because Putin and Schwarzkoff improved the GDP?

This guy was an asshole, and he had no respect at all. Him being an asshole has very little to do with him being a latino, Mexican or an illegal immigrant, but he was an asshole all the same. He was making apologies for fascists.

[Cleita]

38. I was born in Chile as well and lived there. I am American.

I'm well acquainted with the fascists and German Nazis in Chile, as well as the imperialism American and British business brought there as my father was one of them. Many fascists are well revered by people who should know better. How did we get Bush in this country if that isn't true? These people believe anything that is told to them at face value and vote against their own best interests. Although I had left Chile for good before the coupe, I kept in contact with expat Chileans living here (my mother was one) and was shocked myself at how easily many of them bought into the concept that Pinochet was good for the country. Of course that faded over time when harsh reality set in. IMHO the problem in Chile has always been its classism. You either are an aristocrat in the upper class and automatically allowed to be the ruling class, or you are middle class and allowed to have a university education and white collar job, and if you are born into an obrero family, that's where you stay. These were the people who turned to communism and where the trouble began. Of course being campesinos and obreros no one really cared much that they were being tortured and disappeared until it started happening to them. Sorry, but that is the harsh reality. I always loved Chile and it's people, but you have those problems that you have to fix and that is especially the classism that will keep you from becoming the great nation you could be.

[heliarc]

39. Thanks for your comments.

When I say that I am a Chilean, I mean that I am a Chilean-American. I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Chile because I was born in the US after my parents went into exile, but I will admit that my mother's side of the family is on the fascist side, while my fathers was communist. My mother never bought into the racism that her classist, racist, and fascist family tried to sell her and she was punished for that by losing her homeland, and some of the friends she loved.

You say that the trouble began with communism? Because I think the problem started with starvation and oppression in the poblaciones for a half century of foreign control of capital. ITT and United Fruit and the like have been using their political and financial power to force Latin America to do its bidding for the better part of a century now, and when I look at the worker's plight I see nothing more than a demand to see their fair share of the fruits of their labor. Before communism in Chile there was the Massacre at Santa Maria de Iquique in 1907. When workers who try to address their grievances peacefully are killed in cold blood, I consider that a major problem with due process and that incident in Chile's history predates the formation of a communist party by 11 years. In Chile, the great copper and nitrate mines of the north have been owned by ITT and foreign interest since then. THAT is where the problem starts for me. Not with communism. If Chileans one day came to the US and bought up all the Oil in Texas and then paid the workers in this country in foodstamps, then killed them and their families when they tried to unionize you might also end up with a lot of angry American workers. Some of them might lose all faith in democratic organizations to protect them, and I guarantee that you would create something like a communist movement.

Besides, Allende never did anything to challenge democratic rule of law. He wasn't a communist, and he did everything in his power to keep the communists in his coalition at bay. They demanded that he arm the workers, and he didn't. He sent the police to break up the forcible takeover of some factories. He drew the ire of many in his coalition for this. Blame the communists, but they were right: The landed aristocracy was cold blooded enough to commit genocide and to be an apologist for that kind of craven greed, brutality and disruption of democracy is not acceptable. Blaming it all on communism seems to me to be the largest historical misrepresentation possible.

I wish that the film were more available for the public to view, but you should make it a point to watch the documentary La Batalla de Chile by Guzman. It is hard to find, but it has to be one of the best documents of history I have ever seen. It is 5 or so hours that chronicles every significant turn of events leading up to the Coup and demonstrates with primary documentation how desperation, poverty of morals, and capital interests led the Military and its landed aristocracy to commit what is quite possibly the greatest crime against democracy that this hemisphere will ever know.

It is a good lesson to learn now that we proceed into a new administration in the US that may face some of the similar racist and classist hatred that the Allende regime faced while it attempts to fold back the march of fascist reforms. We have a government now that has effectively held the banks hostage and demanded a ransom of almost a trillion dollars. They have enforced torture with legal action and widened political powers of surveillance to monitor the populace without judicial review. They have started wars of preemption and stoked the fears of difference and the other. They have attempted to limit women's access to birth control and abortion rights.

What faces an Obama campaign looms large when put in the context of the Allende experience in Chile. Allende attempted in his own right to nationalize services and industry much the same way that Obama will be required to with Health care and the Energy sector. He has promised to broaden freedoms in ways that extremists in the US respond to with death threats, vandalism and terrorism. Not understanding these threats from the fringes activated by the interests of the capitalist power brokers in high places also bodes ill for our new president-elect's cause. Blaming the violence of these people on our own agenda as you would blame the coup in Chile on "communism" or on the radicalization of poor and oppressed people who continue to suffer in Louisiana, Ohio, Michigan, or anywhere else where US workers are hurting is pure and utter folly.

[Cleita]

46. Well, I lived in the Chuquicamata copper mine of northern Chile and I worked

in the Industrial Relations Department one school break for three months as a translator. The American who headed it was a redneck from Montana and had no time for the unions, but I met all the union bosses and we talked in Spanish while my boss ignored them and made them wait to see him. He didn't understand what we said because he refused to learn Spanish. I learned a lot from them. The workers had managed to get enough clout that the Massacre of Iquiqui wasn't repeated when they went on strike. The American management were too afraid of the organization that they had acquired. Of course they were all communists and they backed Allende. Yes, the communism was a symptom of the poverty and the lower classes wanting a better life, much like with Chavez and Morales today. I didn't mean to imply that it was the cause. The class system IMHO was the cause and the enforced poverty and hard lives of the lowest classes. I went to see Allende make a speech the first time he ran for President with one of our maids, who begged me to go listen to him. I believe she knew I was a closet liberal. I was very impressed with his intellect and his vision. Needless to say my Republican parents were pretty mad at me. However, the communist party was legal then in Chile and there was no shame in being one except among the Americans and British. Of course this was at the height of the USAs cold war with Russia.

I was very upset when the assassination happened because I truly believe Allende was an honest and honorable man. When I found out it was Kissinger and Nixon that was behind it, I really have prayed every day that Kissinger one of these days is brought to justice. Any way it's nice chatting with you as you understand what is beneath the history.

[heliarc]

52. Nice chatting with you too...

It is good to see compatriotas here at DU, and I appreciate your insight. You can imagine that anything I learn about the Chile I could never know is precious to me. My mother met Allende at a Naval hospital. I think that her impression of him was much like yours -- that he was honorable and honest. It is a shame that there is too seldom room for men like that in positions of power. I sometimes think that Obama is a lot like that. It remains to be seen, but we need to protect our new president with every word and every deed, and keep him honest. Thanks for recounting the history for me. :hi:

[Evoman]

47. Hi! It's nice to meet another Chilean on this board.

Okay...I'm not ACTUALLY Chilean. I was born in Argentina, where my father met my mother after escaping from Chile. My grandpa was a big supporter of Allende, and a big union man, so naturally they tried to have him "disappeared". I actually lost family members after the coup.

So whenever anyone says anything good about Pinochet in my presence, they are lucky to get out with their fucking teeth intact.

[heliarc]

53. Nice to meet you too Evoman!

:hi: My parents fled early in 1974 and they were the lucky ones.

[Horse with no Name]

18. Yes.

They work. They raise their families. They struggle to feed and clothe their families.
The ones that I am familiar with live in hulled out trailers (not even good enough to be called a mobile home)and drive cars that they paid small amounts of cash for. They shop garage sales and Goodwill to clothe their families. They buy bulk beans, flour and lard from the local stores to feed their families.
Of course, the ones I am familiar with are in rural areas...but this is basically the life that most lead. Very quiet, under-the-radar lives...but not unlike many other Americans who have drawn the same lot in life.
I've often said that if we want to see what happens to a country when all of the money concentrates to the top 1%, and then you pull out the social safety net...then look south. Mexico is a perfect example of what our country is nearing if allowed to be on the same course. We have more in common with them than we think, yet so many Americans are teetering on the same type of meager subsistence but cannot find empathy for the Mexican in the same boat.
I have NO doubts that if I ever woke up and found myself living in a country that was unable to help if I found myself unemployed, hungry, and without any means of helping myself...I too, would risk swimming rivers, climbing mountains and crossing borders to find work. To watch the ones you love die of hunger and disease would NOT be an option.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

19. You should rent "Wetback: The Undocumented Documentary."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0447544/

[EFerrari]

20. Yes, I have my whole life.

They use mostly extended family networks. And everything is pretty much twice as hard.

[texastoast]

22. Yes

Mostly they do not want you to know they are here. They get here in a variety of ways, from swimming the river to paying dearly to be smuggled, oftentimes to lose their money and sometimes being killed in the process.

They are desperate to try to feed their families. Sometimes, they live 12 to a one-bedroom apartment and keep a low profile. Many times they are with family members. Men and women come, sometimes bringing children. Sometimes the women are pregnant.

They are resourceful and shop at garage sales. Some of them have paid for false documentation and sometimes are ripped off.

How much they are "weighing on the system" I don't really know.

[Madrone]

23. A girlfriend of mine does....

She's Mexican American - never set foot in Mexico and never wants to go there. She knows a guy in the Seattle area that is illegal. From what we've discussed his life is very difficult. He has a son he has custody of and they get stuck in shit living arrangements and he can't stick up for himself because he's afraid someone will turn him in. Likewise with employment - he will do jobs and end up not getting paid, or getting paid a much lower amount than was agreed upon. Nothing he can do. He's really afraid of being deported because of his son.

[Edweird]

25. Not within the last year or so, but before that I knew LOTS of them.

I was VP of a General Contracting company. I also used to work as a project manager for my FIL who was also a contractor (he was from Guatemala) and he used almost exclusively undocumented workers. So, I've known hundreds. Why?

[melonkali]

26. I watch "The Dog Whisperer", Cesar Millan, each week on NGEO.

He freely talks about how he came over illegally -- don't know what his status is now.

[shireen]

27. he became a legal immigrant when he married Ilusion, now a US citizen.

I love Cesar Millan, and am thrilled that he's become so successful. But he didn't get there on his own; kind people helped him along the way, including Jada Pinkett Smith. I wish other undocumented workers could be as fortunate as him.

[shireen]

28. thanks, everyone

I really appreciated your posts. Yes, I do see them here and wonder about their lives, and their families. I've never had the opportunity to get to know them, but from brief interactions, they come across as hard-working and very nice people. It's quite extraordinary, the lengths that they'd go through to support their families. That takes a lot of courage and love. Whatever we think about their legal right to be here, you gotta admire and respect that kind of dedication.

It's a complex legal and human rights issue . In an ideal world, that kind of poverty would never exist. We're so far away from that ideal. It's really heartbreaking

[LuckyLib]

29. You asked a great question and lots of thoughtful folks weighed in.

Immigrants (legal or illegal) are folks just tryin' to get along in this world. As a teacher in LA, I never met such warm and wonderful and hard-working people as the Mexican, Mexican American, and Central American communities there. They are a great addition to the mosaic of America.

Edited to add: There are states in Mexico (Michoacan, Zacatecas) where the majority of young men, 14-40 are in "el norte" working, trying to make life better back home.

[heliarc]

32. It is certainly a human rights issue.

They are just like anyone else from this country or anywhere else. They work and die for the chance of giving their children a better life or making a better living for themselves so they can start a family.

I posted about the illegal immigrant who I thought was a jerk to make a point that just like there are jerks here in the states who were born here, there are jerks everywhere too... But jerks are people who have rights too, and not honoring people's human rights regardless of citizenship is a dangerous road.

[bertman]

30. Yes, several. Restaurant workers and building trades workers.

One guy worked at a restaurant I frequent. He was super nice, spoke excellent English, and always very helpful. One day, after I'd known him a couple of years, he asked me if my building company was hiring workers. He had done building in Mexico. So, I told him I'd let him know if an opening came up.

A job opened up and we hired him. Great worker, very quick learner, got along well with everyone. Loved his job and we all enjoyed having him in the company.

One day our office manager got a report from the IRS saying that his SS number wasn't valid. So she called him and asked him for his SS number, to make sure she had not miscopied it on her forms. No, she hadn't miscopied. He gave her the same number, so she called it back in and it came back as invalid. When she asked him about it he just disappeared. Never called or came back in.

We figured he was worried about getting deported if the IRS or INS came after him. We called and called and even went by his house. Everybody there suddenly spoke NO INGLES. Nobody knew where he was.

His brother still worked at the same restaurant so I told him that we wanted to help him to get his papers and would help him get a good immigration lawyer so he could become a citizen. Still, he would not even talk to us on the phone. The fear of being caught and deported was so great that he could not risk it. He has a wife and three kids (who were born in the U.S.).

About 18 months later he showed up at the restaurant, working his old job. He was a little bit worried when he saw me, but we shook hands and had a cordial greeting and nothing was mentioned about his disappearance.

There are many hispanic men who work with us, mostly as painters and sheetrockers. They work for six or eight months here, then go to Mexico for a couple of months. They are sending money home and many are buying land and homes in Mexico that they could never afford on what they would make there. Some of them bring their wives here and settle in. Others seem to want to go back to Mexico when their financial situation is right.

Mostly these are really nice folks who are hard workers and honest and dependable. They take jobs that a lot of Americans look down on and they do them well.

I'm glad they're here. We'd be in a helluva fix if they were not here to do the work.

Hasta luego, amigos.

[Doityourself]

34. Yeah...n/t

[Hekate]

36. Yes. I live in California. They wire money home from the Carniceria on the corner...

They staff the hotels and restaurants--not the front offices, but as maids and dishwashers and busboys. They work in the fields, picking broccoli and strawberries. They're gardeners and cleaning ladies and nannies. They tend our old people in nursing homes.

Documentaries on PBS have shown that foremen in agribusiness and chicken-processing plants can put the word out when they want more workers, and pretty soon another busload will show up.

Crossing the border into the US is expensive and dangerous -- very dangerous these days, thanks to so-called Homeland Security measures. Fences and such drive people away from the easier migration routes and into the worst of the desert. Going home again is cheap and easy.

Social support? From each other, from people who speak their language, from people from their home village or home state. But they are vulnerable to people who would misuse them, because they are below the law.

Taxes? They pay taxes every single time they purchase something. Collecting Social Security? I doubt it.

Who does this sad situation serve? is the question I think people should be asking. I think it serves the Mexican government, which doesn't have to clean up its act. I think it serves US corporations, who have an endless supply of cheap non-union labor. I think it serves the US government, which is beholden to the corporations. I think it serves individual homeowners and businesses both small and large in the US.

Edited to add: One of my brothers lives in Oregon and has done a lot of work with Mexicans and South Americans that he thinks are undocumented. He's a skilled mechanic but he drinks, so as he's gotten older he's ended up being a dishwasher from time to time, and that's where he's met these guys. He learned to speak Spanish from them; he agrees with me that these are very dedicated workers, very reliable.

Hekate

[LeftHander]

40. No...none...

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[nc4bo]

41. Yes. They live in a run down single wide in a rundown park. There's about 6 living in

there. Most speak very minimal English and depend on a spokesperson to negotiate pay. They follow whatever contractors need workers and go with the highest paying contractor. If needed they will also get in touch with other Mexicans and let them know that work is available. They cook massive quantities of food (rice and beans) and share it with each other, the ones I know drink alot of beer. They are VERY hard workers and rarely complain, just pay them what they are owed.

The ones I know get those pay by the minute cell phones or use calling cards.

I can't speak Spanish (neither does my hubby) so I don't know much beyond what I wrote.

Gotta love North Carolina - lots and lots of them are here. :S

[iamthebandfanman]

43. trust me, most all of them buy phone cards

so they can call back home.

atleast a few times a month my gf says a bunch come to her store and buy up cards.

[iamthebandfanman]

42. yes, up until recently

i worked in a restaurant that employed a 30 something mexican woman to do the cleaning...
she was super sweet and yearning to become part of our culture...
unfortunately she was in a hard place. her husband had obtained a visa and had been here a few years before she arrived. apparently he likes to smack her around and threaten her children. i tried to get her to leave him, even offered her help if she needed it(even though that made my girlfriend mad). she was afraid if she tried to leave that hed report her. she was also afraid of her conservative family back in mexico, and their reaction to her wanting a divorce. i explained to her that she was in america now, and she could be whoever she wanted to be. i think she understood.

im not sure exactly whats happened since i lost my job, but the last i had heard she had moved out of the small house she had been living in with him and her children.

hopefully everything worked out for her.


she was even taking english classes at the local community college in an attempt to assimilate.

[noel711]

45. Yes, personally, in a 'family' type situation...

and no, I won't and can't tell you any more.

Too much is at risk, even in a seemingly anonymous setting as a
website. I don't trust anyone....

They are vulnerable, too vulnerable in our present climate.
Why are they here?
Because where they had been meant certain death,
and where they are there is a slim hope of a future.
What too many in the media says about them puts them at risk.
The arrogance of too many americans is despicable.

[shireen]

48. i would never ask for specifics, I just wanted to understand their lives a bit more.

As an immigrant myself, I understand something about their motivations, and feel kinda protective towards them.

[readmoreoften]

49. Yes, about 50% of my neighbors.

NAFTA has created economic 'opportunity' for the few and disaster for the masses. The indigenous folks in Mexico (their 28 million Native Americans) have been and are being displaced by multinational corporations. They flee to the cities and take day labor to survive. The lower working class of Mexico has nowhere to go but North (they ain't going to Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras--although they might've if we allowed them to create sustainable societies in the 80s instead of training right-wing death squads to kill off their socialists, but that's another story...)

Notice that the flight has been almost entirely since NAFTA. Sure there were those who crossed the border before, but not to the current extent. Nowhere near it.

What happens to them? They live 10 or 15 to a house and try to survive. La Migra splits up families, leaving children without parents. Many survive just fine. Others get sent to the Hutto Detention Center where even school-aged children are imprisoned for 23 hours a day with only 1 hour of sunlight, no toys, no education.

Capitalism might "work" but maybe not for everyone. Or even a lot of folks.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. I know a lot of unemployed native americans I could introduce you to.

I'm not sure why people native to the other side of the border have a superior moral claim to "the good life" than those on this side.

[fed_up_mother]

51. I know many...including many kids at my own kids' school

You wouldn't believe the stories I hear when I tutor.

[HEyHEY]

55. Yeah, they're fine. But the economy here is booming (and slowing)

[EFerrari]

57. If you check out the Latin America forum, you'll see that the U.S. is restarting

its covert wars against democracy in Latin America. This will drive more people north, just as globalization does.

[stuntcat]

58. well my neighbors

I'm not sure how many people live there but it's a lot.. mostly documented probably, the main guy, Jose, owns the house. But 3 or 4 of the men there seem to work different hours every day and lots of times there are men there I've never seen before. There are a lot of those hang-out/pick-up places here around Arlington where men stand and wait for work.

Jose likes to garden so we talk about that and the weather sometimes. My favorite person there is his mother, she's such a nice looking lady, very very old. She always smiles and waves at me but she doesn't speak one word of English so I can't talk with her.

[southernyankeebelle]

60. Maybe

I live in TN in the Nursery area where there are alot of hispanics working here. I am sure some are undocumented. For the most part they are hard working people.

[TheKentuckian]

61. No, but we'll be calling them our fellow Americans, if we want to compete globally

NAFTA probably isn't so much bad as dishonest. They should have just leveled and told us "hey, folks we need this whole super continent's resources and population to compete with emerging economies and this is how we're going to get there.

Its the (true) international trade agreements that are really screwing us.