The Big 3 have been fucking up since the 70's and some see fit to blame the unions

[MrScorpio]

Something is terribly wrong with the picture painted on the MSM

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. The UAW is their next target

and if they succeed... I fear for this country... don't care who is in DC

[Mind_your_head]

2. The Unions should have forced Detroit to make better/more fuel efficient cars!

Read the future.....F*ckin' 'a''s!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[B Calm]

70. Amazing how the corporate news can blame the hourly laborers for management

decisions. . .

[MannyGoldstein]

3. The UAW Would Only Build SUVs

Is that what they're saying?

[MrScorpio]

4. Are you watching Donny D?

It's as if the only people to blame for the Big 3's troubles are unions

[Double T]

5. The Big 3's criminal executive management and boards and the UAW are both to blame.......

for the failure of these companies. Greed has done in all of them.

[Doityourself]

7. Let's not leave out the American public...many bought the gas guzzlers...n/t

[Double T]

11. Specially those GD lipstick laden Soccer Moms that need the HUMONGOUS.......

Suburbans to go to the grocery store and drop the kids off at soccer practice.

[Doityourself]

19. Exactly! Many bought those vehicles and now they cry...you were part of the problem! n/t

[amandabeech]

20. Those moms are none of UAW members, designers, engineers or CEOs.

Why people get those enormous SUVs is beyond me, too, but I don't blame anyone but the soccer moms for making them so popular!

There have been big SUVs around for a long time. I know--I used to drive the enormous baby-blue 1965 Jeep Wagoneer that my Dad had for his business.

If demand suddenly increases for a product, why blame the business person who makes more of the demanded product?

If they don't or didn't make more of a popular product, they'd have been either fired or sued by their shareholders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Because the need is manufactured by advertisement

that is why

When I was growing up my mom had a CAR, not even a station wagon

My sis has a van.. why? Her excuse we can all go together to places... which happens rarely

Oh and the car seats...

Excuses

I took care of the kids and the car seats fit perfectly well on my rear seat and their crap fit perfectly fine in my trunk

[kwassa]

30. It was never a need, it was a want.

The manufactures put a line of vehicles in front of the consumers, and they made their pick.

You can blame advertising, but I blame the consumer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I blame advertisement for creating that want

it is powerful stuff if you know how it works

[kwassa]

37. I saw the entire SUV fad from the beginning

and it wasn't advertising.

The young and the hip car changed from the VW Cabriolet to the Jeep, with its image of outdoors, off-road, and slightly bad boy. The companies noticed and followed, taking their trucks and dressing them up. There was lots of boomer consumer resistance to minivans, which didn't fit with their self-image of rebellion, and station wagons were anathema, the stuff of their parents generation. People buy vehicles as much for emotional reasons as rational ones, and gas, in real dollars, was never cheaper than it was at the beginning of the fad, so miles-per-gallon wasn't so important, either.

Most American auto company advertising is really bad, by the way, speaking as someone who once worked in the field. I wouldn't give them credit for anything.

[amandabeech]

39. And the WWII Jeep was really hip where I grew up.

It was similar to the Wrangler.

Very cool, and NO ADVERTISING!

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. They were also surplus

and they were great little vehicles that the GIs knew from going from north africa to Berlin

Same with Motorcycles

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. And who created the image of hip and outdoors?

City kids? You kid me

I was around as well, and those were COMMERCIALS for things like the Jeep wrangler

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Now personal attacks cute

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluecollarcharlie]

66. Have you never heard of the off button?

Very powerful tool. Apparently,when used correctly, it can shut off 99.9 percent of all advertising.

[LanternWaste]

76. Spryo Gyra!

Spryo Gyra! My favorite band, my favorite album (Morning Dance), my favorite single(Rasul).

Welcome to DU!

[amandabeech]

34. Nadin, you like cars. Now, why do you like cars?

Because someone told you to like cars?

Has your sister ever driving a car? Maybe she likes her vehicle better.

I like trucks. I used to have one. I started driving them when I was a teenager. And that was WAAAAYYYYY before SUVs were advertised on TV.

I think that the theory that we only buy things and like things because they are advertised on TV is way, way, way overrated.

Apparently, we differ, but I don't think that we have ever agreed on anything on this board.

So, excuses, my a**!

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. She drives a car too

she just thinks this is more efficient to transport the kids, and grand parents et al

Reality is that for MOST people we don't NEED a large vehicle

If you have a business, you may need a truck or van to transport things for work

But for every day commuting we do NOT need land tanks, at least MOST of us

In fact, we could get away with personal vehicles if we had sufficient public transport... but that is another discussion

As to advertisement... read on it, we live in a consumer society where MANY of not MOST of our needs are manufactured

[amandabeech]

45. You're not convincing me that advertising rules all.

I've heard all your arguments for yours and I still don't buy it.

It is so black and white in a world that looks increasing gray, and not because advertising has really been pushing gray for a few months.

You've had your fun, now go put your kids to bed and tell them that you've been reprimanded for being impertinent to your elders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. More personal attacks? What got into the water today?

Reported

[amandabeech]

52. Nadin, we have never gotten along. Never. So, there's nothing new.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. So why the personal attacks?

[Hannah Bell]

74. The Japanese took 1/3 of the US market. Not with SUV's, but with cheap,

reliable small cars.

That was also "what people wanted".

People want lots of things.

How is it that GM et al, by building "what people wanted", is going bankrupt?

[kwassa]

75. The Japenese labor costs are vastly less than American car companies

and nowhere near the benefits of union auto workers. They can put a lot more car into a car for less money. The Koreans do it even cheaper. And next, the Chinese.

This is why many manufacturing industries have left the US. We can't compete with the lower labor costs abroad.

The most recent target of the Japanese was the American large truck market, which they were making inroads into before the crash. They started with small cars, but went after the entire spectrum of the auto and truck market, in all sizes.

[Hannah Bell]

81. non-seq. The assertion was that "people want" big vehicles.

In the oil shock 70s, & people "wanted" small, reliable vehicles. Which Detroit was amazingly slow to catch on to, by about 10 years. They kept building bigger vehicles because they could tack on bigger profit margins.

This is how Japan got their foothold in the US.


"We can't compete with the lower labor costs abroad."

Funny how the prices don't go down much.

They tell the same story to the Japanese workers.

[Mind_your_head]

32. Hey, those soccer moms had to protect their precious babies

by surrounding them with 5,000 lbs. of steel AND dad, the psychologist/stockbrocker/real estate agent ....got a $65,000 tax write-off b/c the SUV qualified as a 'truck' which was needed for his business! :eyes:

I think those of us with 'longer memories' can thank our congress for such legislation! (and I don't care if that congress was 'D' or 'R'.....so, don't 'go there'.

[amandabeech]

36. I don't like the tax write-off either.

But the people who bought them, just really like them.

They just didn't want to pay full load.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[amandabeech]

57. I don't care about what you say about me,

but your comments about heavy-set people are mean and inappropriate.


Let me quote and expand on your tag line here:

"Whatsoever you do(or say) to the least of my brothers, that you do(or say) unto me."

Do you think that Jesus does not love people with a few extra pounds just like he loves you?

Would Jesus say something like that?

Are you sure that you want your comments about heavy-weight people displayed above your tag line?

Please give it some thought.

[dbackjon]

18. Exactly

Unions are not the culprit, but are not blameless either.

[doc03]

28. I agree with you, just like today the executives

show up in Washington in a private jet with a tin cup in hand (like one Senator said). Then you have the President of the UAW declare his membership is not giving up anything. Both sides arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds. Most of the American taxpayers can only dream of the wages and benefits of the UAW not to mention what an Auto Executive must make and they expect us to sacrifice to help them when neither one of them is willing to give any ground.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Binka]

6. Corporations Who Have Stolen Their Wealth From Their Workers

Want serfs. Their predatory capitalism is obscene. The Corpo Media is THEM! Unions BAD! Feudalism GOOD! I am so sick of their shit. Upon who's back did these fuckers grow rich on? Screeeeeeewwww them.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. I don't blame the unions for anything, but that being said

The the big 3 can't compete with foreign companies if they have to keep paying the same health and pension benefits that they are now. I don't blame the unions for getting their members a good deal, that's their job. But the status quo isn't sustainable. I think that some of this problem can be solved if we get national health insurance of some form passed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. That is partially easy

called national health insurance

Remember Detroit fought it back in the day... oh ten years ago

[Andy823]

17. I agree.

And that's why we are in the mess we are in now, Bush and his "greedy" buddies don't want national health care, and the are doing what they can to make sure it won't happen by spending everything the can before they leave office so it will be hard as hell to come up with the money needed for a national health care plan.

I can't remember how the price of health care raises the price of a car, but I do remember it's a lot!

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. 1500 to 2000 dollars, depending on the unit

I used the higher number on my letter to congress today

[MrScorpio]

10. Exactamundo!

[Touchdown]

13. Unions are all over the world, especially in car making

Hell, even The Korean makes have unions. The only difference between us and them. National Healthcare. You got it spot on!

[amandabeech]

29. National Health Insurance would help, but the Big 3 and the UAW

agreed on new contracts in 2007 that partially remedied the problem going forward.

Under the contract, each automaker is paying into a Voluntary Employee Benefit Association trust. When all payments were to be finished in 2010, the trust run by the UAW would pay for medical benefits of ALL union retirees. Recently, Ford eliminated insurance for white collar retirees and instead increased their pensions to help them purchase medigap policies.

On the pension front, that same 2007 agreement allowed the Big 3 to their very expensive defined benefit pension plan, the traditional kind where your benefits are guaranteed no matter what the investments or the corporate results are. Instead, the Big 3 will start defined contribution plans, which run like a group 401(k). The trustees make the investment decisions and can invest in certain things (like derivatives ha-ha) that individual employees generally cannot. I believe that there is a 401(k) of some type as well.

Work rules were made more flexible and efficiency improvements on the shop floor are ongoing.

The 2007 energy bill provides "strings attached" loans to the Big 3 to retool for more fuel efficient cars. I know more about Ford's plan, so I'll lay it out here. Ford is putting a new, updated version of its full hybrid engine now found in the Escape small SUV into the Fusion, which is a highly rated and very popular mid-size sedan. As of October, the production line was to start running in December (which means that it must have been almost finished then) and to introduce the cars in January 2009.

In addition, Ford plans to develop and sell the same autos here and in Europe, with as much overlap as possible for the rest of the world, thereby saving money. It is also going to bring over the Fiesta, which is smaller than the Focus, and maybe the Ka, which is about the size of a SmartCar. A newly reworked Focus is on tap, and the Focus Cabriolet may come along as well (i've seen pictures and I want one). They will retool truck, van and SUV plants to make these smaller and better cars. Chrysler and GM have plans to bring out new fuel efficient cars, too. They understand, finally, that they must to stay in business. I'm from Michigan, and I've followed them for years, but this time, I think that they all have religion.

You can read about this stuff on the net, and if you take some time to do so, you'll be way ahead of almost all the talking heads and most of Congress judging by the questions that they were asking.

There is no doubt in my mind that each of the Big 3 have screwed up in the past. Two of my favorite clunkers are the Pinto (of the exploding gas tank), the various rust bucket land yachts of the 1970s, and the Neon, which usually had the shelf life of an jelly donut and the sturdiness of frame to match.

Unfortunately, the credit market has dried up totally. There are few loans to be had, and only the absolute best commercial paper can find a market, but almost exclusively with the Federal Rerve. I think that Congress and Boosh deserve part of the blame because they totally screwed up the TARP so far. The Big 3 can't sell cars to people who can get loans nor can they get operating loans just as they were trying to make big changes in their line-ups.

I'm sure that more strings can be attached to their operating loans than were made to the banks, investment houses and insurance companies, not that it would be hard to top. However, it's not fair in my book to let the auto companies die to make up for the fact that Boosh and Congress just threw cash at the banks, investment houses and insurance companies.

What's more, if were you, I'd prepare myself psychologically for more requests for operating loans or loan guarantees from all parts of the economy until the banks start lending or somebody starts buying.

Many economists have suggested that this is the worst recession since the Great Depression. Others have suggested that this could devolve into the Great Depression II. I lived through the '70s, early '80s, early '90s and 2001 recessions already and am worse for the wear. My parents lived through the Great Depression which scarred them for life. Do you want that for yourself and your children? Lots of people get hurt who don't think that it will happen to them, believe me.

When FDR was inaugurated, he had to use totally new, totally untried and totally unorthodox methods to get the country going again. When he tried to go back to normalcy in '37 by balancing the budget, the economy went down again, really only to be saved by the military buildup abroad and here to WWII.

Personally, I would not want to get into a position where only a war could save the economy. So I urge that everyone consider FDR's example: ordinary measures probably won't work, but extraordinary measures just might.

To paraphrase FDR, "We have nothing to fear but our own economic timidness itself."

[Andy823]

12. Congress has the power

To help out the auto industry, but they also have the power to make the industry change. Start making the cuts from the top down, not the from the bottom up. Force them to cap pay for executives all the way up to the CEO. Make them trim down at the top, get rid of the waste in management and then talk about a bailout. The power is in the hands of congress now, and if they blow this and allow big corporations to continue to do business as usual, then there is no hope left. Force their hand let them know that a new sheriff is in town and things are going to change. For once they need to put the well being of the average worker over the big money of corporate america!

Reid and Pelosi need to "MAKE" the republicans vote, they need to make the big shots in the auto industry do what needs to be done, and they need to stand up for the people for a change!

[izzie]

14. Did the unions tell them what type car to build?

If I re-call getting more miles to a gal. was out in the public in the 70's. And it sure was big business pushing big cars and the use of oil. Even Congress,GOP, made the speed on the turn pikes to go up. I guess it saved gas to cut the speed and that would never do. And the RR which can move things cheaper than trucks? One never saw big bus. or Congress getting behind that. I do not think Unions had much to do with all this. But it is nice to have some one to blame if you run a Corp. and make about 20 million a year to do it and the business is going broke.

[gravity]

15. Unions bear some of the responsibility with the management

They both contributed to the slow unadaptive bureaucracies that the big 3 became.

[Touchdown]

23. Bullshit. Unions represent workers. Management makes the decisions

[gravity]

25. Unions make decisions too and influence the management

The UAW has good intentions, but some of the demands they were putting on GM were unsustainable

[B Calm]

71. UAW demands. . . The management was setting the example!! In

other words they were good teachers!

[Touchdown]

80. When the CEOs travel by commercial jet, and take home >$300K

Then come and talk to me about "unsustainable demands"

[bluecollarcharlie]

67. Where do you people get this NONSENSE from?????

It is always the same context free generalization that if pressed for an answer the person who makes that statement can't defend it.
If ANYONE HERE can provide a cogent, fact laden case for that argument i would be absolutely shocked.

[JVS]

16. This kind of predatory behavior of the big 3 towards its employees is nothing new.

[TahitiNut]

22. It's the war on the blue collar middle class ... organized labor in manufacturing.

The auto industry is the core of what remains of a manufacturing base in the U.S. and the UAW has been successful in obtaining a living wage for the working class. The corporatist/financial fat cats have to destroy them to get us closer to a plantation economy in the banana republic of the U.S.

Horror of horrors! They actually earn a living wage and are paid one. It's so noxious that the lairs and shills had to inflate it ridiculously just to rouse the rabble. Detestable shit.

[2Design]

26. unions were the only thing protecting us from the government and management

and they have done a good job convincing people that unions are bad - people got a 4o hour work week, overtime, holidays, vacation, and decent wages with unions - the ceos now get all that money while walmart pays people cheap conservative wages - unions helped form the middle class - without them - look at the middle class -

[BrklynLiberal]

27. It is union busting at its finest. The mismanagement, millions of dollars salaries,

golden parachutes...with no penalty for ruining the business, and being in cahoots with the oil companies....all factors in this debacle.

I think the oil companies should pay for this bailout..They are the ones who profitted most from the big gas guzzlers that Detroit built.

[doc03]

33. This time it's not just the Big 3 all of the Auto companies

sales are way off, it's the economy. A few months ago the Big 3 were doing fine selling their SUVs and pickups, you have a perfect storm skyrocketing gas prices and the financial collapse. Take a look at Toyota, yes they make the Prius but they are guilty of building big SUVs and Pickups too. Same goes for Honda the first Honda Accord had a 68 HP engine and today the Accord has probably doubled in weight and they have a 268 hp V-6 engine. So this time I don't think anyone can put all the blame on the Big 3, people wanted the big SUVs and Pickups even the Japenese have gone into that market.

[MrScorpio]

35. That arguement undercuts the meme that the unions are at fault

Since most of the foreign manufacturers use non-union labor.

The people who are out to just blame the unions must think we're stupid.

[kwassa]

40. Ever seen the Nissan Armada or the Toyota Sequoia? Giant gas guzzlers.

[HughMoran]

50. Stop making sense

You make good points in you post.

Although it's true that the Big 3 had some ground to make up and chose to keep cashing in on the SUV's when they could have been R&Ding fuel efficient cars. And only a fool would imagine that oil would remain cheap and plentiful forever. Only a fool would forget the lessons of the late 70's. Only a fool would think that the economy could support people buying expensive monster cars forever.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

[bertman]

47. I bought my SUV because I like having a big, gas-guzzling tank of a WEAPON

to run over you piss-ant, bleedin heart libruls in your Priapuses and on your bicycles. Yeah, I laugh maniacally as I pump middle-eastern black gold into my big black shiny eco-killer so I can go back out and emit some more hydrocarbon wastes into the atmosphere.

And when I'm done doin all of that, I go kidnap small helpless Democratic infants and roast them over my GAS grille that's belching out sooty, lethal columns of petrochemical fumes.

Then on my vacation I fly in a fossil-fuel guzzling jumbo jet to the arctic circle where I machine-gun baby polar bears and harp seal pups because they just fuckin piss me off. BWAAAAAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA.

AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!

I'm an evil SUV owner. Scum of the earth. Defiler of all that is sacred to tree huggers and eco freakos.

I couldn't possibly be a good person because I drive an SUV. AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!


Maybe tomorrow I'll go out and buy a Hummer.

[amandabeech]

55. "Maybe tomorrow I'll go out and buy a Hummer." GM says thanks for your support!

I miss my Jeep pickup. WAAAAGGGHHHHH!

My Taurus is a good car, but it's not a Jeep.

Great post, by the way.

[bertman]

73. I LOVE my GM vehicle. Thanks, Amanda. Sarcasm is the last refuge of SUV owners.

[LuckyLib]

48. Many airline workers took 40 percent pay cuts in the last couple of years to "bail out"

their failing companies. Executives? Not so much.

But the UAW is going to have to give up bundles of "entitlements" in order to convince the American people that taxpayer $$$$ should bail out their companies. Retired at 53 and get full health benefits til you can get Medicare? Gone. That's a luxury no company can afford. Everybody has to sacrifice.

[amandabeech]

56. You might find the 2007 UAW contract interesting reading.

After 2010 the health benefits of which you complain will be handled by a trust to which the Big 3 are supposed to make contributions now.

I don't know if you've been around guys who spent a lot of time in barely automated or unautomated auto plants, but a lot of them are ready for disability at 53 or so. Some of them are really beat up--the back really takes it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. What, you mean it's not ACORN's fault?

Oh wait, of course it is. They organize for workers rights.

[davidthegnome]

58. The blame should be directed...

appropriately, at the upper management. Particularly those damned good for nothing CEOs.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

59. A lot of people just hate to see working men and women live comfortable lives

As a blue-collar kid who went into a white-collar career, I have long been aware of this attitude.

These people who didn't even go to college or earn a degree - why do they get paid so well for doing work any moron can do? How dare they own homes and take vacations and spend money on crap for their kids?

These are the literal sentiments I have heard from my colleagues. And more than a few consider themselves liberals. But they are only liberal for others in their class. As if one's social class is a permanent and immutable state.

It just infuriates me that people don't realize that anyone who works for a living is a serf. Some of us toil in nicer hovels than others, and receive a few more coins for our efforts. We delude ourselves into thinking we are better than the others - more valued, more valuable; we got to this level on our own merits, and don't need anyone else's support.

But when the security guards pack up our things and escort us off the premises, who stands with us in solidarity? No one. And that's just the way the owners like it.

[amandabeech]

60. I'm a blue collar kid who ended up in a white collar career.

I agree with you 100%.

[TahitiNut]

61. Yup. Ubetcha. I'm a retired white collar "management type" from a union family.

Walter Reuther was a friend and neighbor to part of my family. I worked in a diesel engine plant to earn my tuition and fees for college. I worked at Chevrolet for 6 years after college - and they saved my job while I was in Viet Nam.

There was a lot that needed improvement at GM, but the union was NOT the problem. The worst problem in GM was the "Rise Of The Bean Counters" ... financial types without engineering background or ANY experience on the plant floor. The elitist attitudes and mentality that they could run a "chop shop" whenever they wanted was the problem. For them, the union was the constant whipping boy (scapegoat) for their own inadequacies.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

62. Walter Reuther and George Meany

were heroes in our house, at least until the Viet Nam War, which my dad did not support. His biggest hero was IAM-AW president William Winpisinger. I've written about Dad's union work here.

Your post reminds me of a colleague who came from a very wealthy family, a man I've known for many years: not a bad guy but as classist as they come. Once he confided that he was thinking to buy a factory and hire people to run it, then retire and live off the profits. I said, "You mean, live off the sweat of underpaid workers? You could stand to live that way?" He made a face like a kid caught raiding the cookie jar and gasped, "Oh I forgot you're one of them," and walked away. I called after him, "You mean, a human being?"

[TexasObserver]

63. Big Three CEOs fly private jets to Congress. THAT is why the management is the problem.

I favor a bailout, but one that requires the companies to fire and sue all these top managers from the Big Three. It is outrageous that the same buffoons who got the auto industry in the ditch now want to preside over the rescue.

[Hubert Flottz]

64. The unions told Americans they were screwing up when they...

bought all those imports and nobody listened.

[moondust]

68. Huge perception problems.

I think a lot of car buyers made up their minds about American cars back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s and haven't taken another look at them since. Carl Levin says GM has NINE HYBRIDS in its product line now. I did not know that and would guess that a lot of other foreign car owners don't either. It's hard to change people's minds when they're made up.

[earth mom]

69. Anyone who is rooting for the destruction of the Big 3 & unions better get a clue

that with their destruction goes the few decent paying jobs left to the working class in this country.

The shit will hit the fan for sure if The Big 3 are allowed to go under. Make no mistake about it.

[PVnRT]

72. It took Detroit management almost 20 years to figure out that quality was important

When they did, they started catching up.

It's been management all along, which has been horrendous at the Big Three. Blaming the unions is just a fringe benefit of this mess for the Republican party; the policy that is sinking these three is set from the top.

[NoGOPZone]

77. It goes back even further than the seventies

I'd say it goes back to the late fifties, when upper management started to be dominated by men with financial and not engineering backgrounds. This led to cars like the Corvair and the Pinto.

[Locrian]

78. lack of redundancy

The "Big 3" is what is wrong. BIG. As in slow, fat, dumb, lazy. Oh and "too big to fail".

How many layers of upper management is there at GM, Ford? How much of their strategy is maintaining profits and the status quo at the expense of actual "competition"? They only offer the illusion with their multiple brands (Chevy, Olds, Buick, whatever).

Break them up. Allow them to actually have to listen to the market vs concoct it. Turn some into engineering / work services for light rail, alternative energy cars whatever. And then prevent the "merger mania" of the 80-90's by not allowing them to raid pensions and get tax breaks for takeovers. Hell, just limit the size in general to a certain level. We need redundancy - not this super-mega corporations that are too big to fail. Flatten them so they have more engineers, workers, etc than loading up with fat cat ceos.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. Ignoring The Fact That UAW Bears Some Responsibility In This Is Wrong.

To fix this, all main contributors need to be identified and revised. Management and piss poor business plans are the top two, but the UAW is third. Blaming them solely would be a crock of shit as would blaming them more than management. But not blaming them at all is equally ignorant.

[roguevalley]

82. workers have such control. they choose the designs and make all

the important decis-- . . . Oh, wait. Never mind. :)