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The Sucker Bait Called Hope -- Making the best of a slow apocalypse (Joe Bageant)

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 10:37 PM
Original message
The Sucker Bait Called Hope -- Making the best of a slow apocalypse (Joe Bageant)


Nov. 19, 2008 (World News Trust) -- We just concluded an election in which both parties talked about hope, one more so than the other. Hope, that murky, undefined belief that some unknown force, perhaps Jesus, or modern science, or some great political leader, or other -- as yet unknown force -- will reverse our national or personal condition... will deliver us from what every bit of evidence indicates is irreversible, if not politically, then ecologically: Decline and eventual collapse. There is quite a difference between hope and understanding the facts, then holding justified optimism. Hope is magical thinking, a sucker’s game. Politicians the world 'round fully understand this.

Consequently, we go into a new year with millions of Americans still clinging to The Audacity of Hope. And we do so because we are victims of learned helplessness, learned from the cradle as it is rocked by the foot of the Capitalist consumer state. Sure we can hope for movement away from domination of the weak by the arrogant, away from ecocide and genocide toward a better world. What the hell, hope is one of the few free activities in this society. We don’t even have to put down the remote and get off our asses to do it. In fact, its delivered through television.

But the fact is that when we encounter in-the-flesh examples of any merciful movement -- even through television -- we blanch and erect a wall of denial and excuses for our refusal to support that thing. Consider how the American public and the media (is there a difference?) responded to Rachel Cory, who willingly died under the Israeli bulldozer protecting the home of a non-partisan Palestinian village doctor. The U.S. media all but ignored her. What few of the public knew of Cory’s sacrifice were at first nonplussed, then deemed it a bizarre and stupid act. But even most Americans who did know joined the Larry Kings of the world in backhandedly mocking her. Moral conviction scares the hell out of us. Hope is effortless.

Thus, hope is still the order of the day. Obama’s election will keep millions of American liberals and much of the world deliriously happy for a time to come. And to some degree at least, Obama's victory is a national rejection of the phony and expensive war on terror. Which is not a step forward, but rather a partial recovery from the immense and spectral folly of our needless warmaking -- recovery of one small bit of the vast ground we have lost... or simply the next thing to do, now that we have tortured, terrified and leveled an entire people for the hell of it. Take your pick. But at some point we will have to cease thinking like children politically, grow up and personally accept responsibility, if we are to rescue our republic from ourselves.

More: http://www.worldnewstrust.com/wnt-reports/commentary/the-sucker-bait-called-hope-making-the-best-of-a-slow-apocalypse-joe-bageant.html

This is a hella long one. Joe's gone and let 'er rip.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shameless...
Kick. Because it's Joe we be talkin' here. Not just any old slug with a word processor.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Joe the Writer
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 10:08 AM by SpiralHawk
is appreciated by
Spiral Hawk the Reader
and his alter ego
Spiral Hawk the Snarkster
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. That made zero sense.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I'm sorry
Perhaps a little contemplation is in order. It made perfect sense to me. There is no solution, just right action for the sake of right action.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. My take is he's saying people haven't really been given the straight story
about how bad things really are. Hope in this regard seems only like beach umbrella against an incoming tsunami.

The piece goes on to talk about the larger mess, the ecological one, and how that will make this simple economic mess seem tame. I agree with that.

He says the basic problem was the way capitalism, as it was set up, required us to pillage each other, other species, land, etc. According to him, it's too late for anything to save us in the traditional sense (including technology, green or otherwise), certain dominoes have been tipped, and there's no going back. Here, I don't think anyone knows for sure, but the odds are against severe calamities NOT happening.

Finally, he says the way he's made peace is with spirituality and simplicity, which he thinks will help, but not avoid destruction. But it's an end in itself, anyhow.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hope is all we got
Edited on Wed Nov-19-08 11:50 PM by BeFree
There really is nothing else. The crises we face are seemingly insurmountable. The politicians are un-trustable and the economy.... well, like I say, all we have left is hope.

But what a wonderful thing hope is. Imagine a world without it!

So, with hope in our heads, hope in our hearts and hope on our sleeves, we venture forth each day beating our heads against the walls, hoping that the loosened bricks don't fall down and crush us.

While always hoping that the people will rise up before all hope is gone. Rise up and take responsibilty for their world and change it before it is too late.

Yes, indeed, hope is the sucker bait that keeps us going. Like the horse with a carrot dangled in front.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Wrong, we have action.
Direct action.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Well
When one takes direct action, one hopes it will help. Surely you don't take direct action without hope?

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Hope is bullshit. Hardwork, solidarity, courage, and optimism based on those qualities...
that's the key.

Hope is just the political reversal of fear. It feeds off an infantilized and terrorized populace.

We are the ones we've been waiting for--warts and all. The only thing a good politician can do is block us from the blows of tyrants while we get our own shit together. But we're the ones who will do the fighting and the winning.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Well
I hope you're right.

But the enemy we face, is us. Our families, our communities.

They hope we lose, as far as i can tell.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
44. My dear friend BeFree (see I ruined your reputation in just 4 words;)
Here's rationalist hope, not the politician kind, the scientific kind.

Now, just read the following. MIT doubles energy use of solar by allowing panels to store and distribute energy overnight. 12 year old comes up with 3D solar cells that provides "500 x's more light absorption than current solar panels. Ohio State Univ. figures out how panels can absorb the entire range of the solar spectrum. SO YOU TELL ME, why isn't this front page news. It represents a finite end of oil dependence and the beginning of really cheap energy here. That's science. Let's see what the moran's do with that. It ads up to two times our current solar panel capacity x's 500 with just the two articles. Damn! Screw Hope, lets get some applied technology and turn these suckers out for the people.

(MIT breakthrough to allow solar panels to work both night and day - doubles efficiency)
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html

"In a revolutionary leap that could transform solar power from a marginal, boutique alternative into a mainstream energy source, MIT researchers have overcome a major barrier to large-scale solar power: storing energy for use when the sun doesn't shine.

'Until now, solar power has been a daytime-only energy source, because storing extra solar energy for later use is prohibitively expensive and grossly inefficient. With today's announcement, MIT researchers have hit upon a simple, inexpensive, highly efficient process for storing solar energy."

(Confirmation of the extraordinary implications of 12 year old's science fair project allows solar panels to absorb 500 times the light as currently available solar panels and capture UV spectrum..)
http://www.katu.com/news/28432984.html

In his project, 'A Highly-Efficient 3-Dimensional Nanotube Solar Cell for Visible and UV Light,' William invented a novel solar panel that enables light absorption from visible to ultraviolet light. He designed carbon nanotubes to overcome the barriers of electron movement, doubling the light-electricity conversion efficiency. William also developed a model for solar towers and a computer program to simulate and optimize the tower parameters. His optimized design provides 500 times more light absorption than commercially-available solar cells and nine times more than the cutting-edge, three dimensional solar cell."

http://nanotechwire.com/news.asp?nid=6773
(Ohio State Univ. breakthrough - solar cell to grab "entire range of solar spectrum.")

Researchers have created a new material that overcomes two of the major obstacles to solar power: it absorbs all the energy contained in sunlight, and generates electrons in a way that makes them easier to capture.

Ohio State University chemists and their colleagues combined electrically conductive plastic with metals including molybdenum and titanium to create the hybrid material.

"There are other such hybrids out there, but the advantage of our material is that we can cover the entire range of the solar spectrum," explained Malcolm Chisholm, Distinguished University Professor and Chair of the Department of Chemistry at Ohio State.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. I love Joe, but I think he's depressed. Eight stolen years of neo-fascism
when you're already feeling your advancing age can do that to a serious writer/thinker.

I liked him better when he was really viscerally angry.

K & R, but about the beer Joe- get it yourself. And think of your liver. It really doesn't help.



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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wow!
I have just two questions. Who the hell is this guy and why did I not run across him before now.

I believe he is spot on. I've never heard anyone so concisely (in less than a book, if only by a mite) explain my worldview. As a Gaian, I know that we aren't good for our Mother and that she needs to remove us or at least cull us massively. I know that recycling and trying not to drive and living communally will not save my ass or really anyone's ass, it's just the right thing to do, the soulful thing to do. Right action that will not lead to a happy ending but it will help me to feed my soul in a Gaian honoring way and in the end, I will die and most of us or even all of us will die, many in an untimely fashion (for us, not for the Mother. She's been way too tolerant). The hugely ironic thing is that I'm gushing about a guy whose screed I read on the internet, making me an obvious consumptive bastid', but I'm trying.

I will read more of what this guy says. Thank for pointing me toward him.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. His brilliant and rare voice kept me sane for the last 5-6 years.
For that, I will always remain a deeply appreciative fan. Lots and lots more of Joe's writings here:

http://www.joebageant.com/


Book reviews (just a few):

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/0307339378?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210956592&sr=1-1



Joe Bageant is a brilliant writer. He evokes working class America like no one else. The account of his revisit to his Virginia roots is sobering, poignant, and instructive."
—Howard Zinn, author of A People's History of the United States

"This book is righteous, self-righteous, exhilarating, and aggravating. By God, it's a raging, hilarious, and profane love song to the great American redneck. As a blue state man with a red state childhood, I have been waiting for this book for years. We ignore its message at our peril."
—Sherman Alexie, author of Reservation Blues

“This fine book sheds a devastating light on Bush & Co.'s notorious 'base,' i.e. America's white working class, whose members have been ravaged by the very party that purports to take their side. Meanwhile, the left has largely turned them out, or even laughed at their predicament. Of their degraded state—and, therefore, ours—Joe Bageant writes like an avenging angel.”
—Mark Crispin Miller, author of Fooled Again: The Real Case for Election Reform

"Joe Bageant is the Sartre of Appalachia. His white-hot bourbon-fuelled prose shreds through the lies of our times like a weed-whacker in overdrive. Deer Hunting with Jesus is a deliciously vicious and wickedly funny chronicle of a thinking man's life in God's own backwoods."
—Jeffrey St. Clair, author of Grand Theft Pentagon and co-editor of CounterPunch



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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yeah, I spent a good bit of my night reading there
He's something else.

I've gotten the "you're depressed" statement for years for my point of view. I'm not actually. Being spiritually centered really helps with that. My indicator for when I'm getting depressed is when I itch to go use "consumer therapy".

I'm definitely a fan, a new fan, since I missed him all these years.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Joe?
He's an ex-rock writer from the golden era of that craft, and now, he is The Samuel Johnson of Redneckerry. He writes The True Dinkum about Redneck Culture, he's got The Burnin' Mojo and The Black Cat Bone.

He's huge in Europe, where a lot of people look to him as an oracle that helps them understand America. He spent a long time there recently, a lot of it on TV, talking about Southern Culture, because he is southern and speaks about the culture with the love of a native son. But he does not flinch from the awful realities.

Good guy. Keep an eye on him.

Note: My parents lived in Warm Springs VA for quite a while, were lovingly accepted into the community, wholeheartedly, too, and I got to know a lot of those good VA mountain folks. Because of that, I have some insight of where Joe comes from, and believe me, he's real. He's just not working some side of some street for mammon. He's telling stories that need to be told and telling them to us, the left, who need to hear them.

Remember: Joe calls himself a Leftneck.
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Go grab a copy of "Deer Hunting With Jesus"
You'll be glad you did. I did three solid hours on-air with him one night and it was one of the most amazing conversations I've ever had.

Joe is the closest thing to Hunter Thompson we presently have, with beer and bourbon subbing for HST's hallucinogens.



Get On The H.O.R.N.!
www.headonradionetwork.com
America's Liberal Voice
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. There were passages in DHWJ
that made me feel I should stand on a chair and read them aloud to the room, even if only to the dog and 4 cats.

His musings from life with redneck lumpenproles (in other words, 99% of us) is such a welcome tonic to the grandiose idiocies from self-besotted clowns like Tom Friedman.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. A big bowl of depression and cynicism
Thank bob for that 'cause I know I sure haven't had my share of misery and despair for the past eight years. No siree, can't ever have too much of the dark stuff!

I think if anyone can get Americans off their collective fat asses and start taking some personal responsibility it is President (elect) Obama. We will see.

Julie
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. "Thank bob for that . . ." LMAO
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. Interesting read.
Don't necessarily agree with all of his ideas, but he lays everything out well. Especially like this part:

"Or on a more mundane level, as countless Americans have told me, “Why should I pay for someone else’s health care? Let them buy their own, just like I did.” Consequently, we’ve not had universal health care for the common good. We have never enjoyed the benefit of universal higher education, because collectively we cannot agree that it is in the common good for all citizens to be equally free from ignorance. We pay the price of that at every turn… in the lack of nuance in the national character, in the childlike and clichéd thinking of our electorate, in our satisfaction with a deluge of technological toys instead of meaningful work and leisure, or intellectual and spiritual substance. Nor is there assured food and shelter for the poorest among us, despite that it is in the common good that all children be raised in a secure environment… because over generations that produces an ever nobler community and nation. “Each generation better than the last,” as the saying goes."

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. wow! I actually think Joe has out done his usual screeds
and I mean that as a compliment. :)

<snip>

Still, there is choice available, even a superior choice: Accept the truth and act upon it. We can at the very least say no to scorched babies in Iraq. We can refuse to participate in a dead society gone shopping. That in itself can be called embracing the spirit. It won’t accomplish shit, but it is nevertheless the right thing to do. Because it’s the only just thing left to do. Too late, for sure, but better than remaining a dysfunctional moral cretin. My inner scales tell me so.

As long as we are cataloguing pointless acts of moral common sense, we may as well turn off PBS’s Nova for a while. Realize the limits of technology and quit looking for more techno solutions to what technology itself hath wrought. All the green energy sources and eating right cannot repair what has been irretrievably ruined. Species gluttony is nearly over and we've eaten the flesh of the earth and pissed upon its bones. Not because we are cruel by nature -- though a case might be made for stupidity -- but because we took the existence of individual consciousness to mean that each of us is some unique center of the world, acquisitive and deserving of all things. One brand of this collective hallucination, although there are others, is called American exceptionalism. And we can get away with that game as long as the oil and the entertainment last. Which looks to be about another half hour.

You might be thinking: If those are the facts and there’s really little I can do, why not just indulge myself and enjoy the life I have left? Sit and order a pizza? Well, those are the facts. And most people choose to do just that. So do I sometimes. Fortunately or unfortunately, my sense of indulgence is so repulsive it scares even me back onto the path.

Living more simply is a prerequisite to right action -- but it’s no solution at all. Making the world a slightly less bad place than before is fine, but no solution. The problem is too far out of hand now. “Solutions,” are over too. I’m sure by now, assuming you got this far, you’re thinking, Bageant, you’re a negative, gin-addled old toad. So be it.

But you might also ask, “Now that you’ve eliminated all hope in this screed, what does one do about all this? I’m sure that what you’re gonna' suggest will be unpleasant as hell, and if it involves enemas or rubber gags and leather straps, I ain’t gonna play." But to humor you, I’ll ask, "Do I renounce materialism or what?”



Go Joe!
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. When we published this:
(Note: Joe is our good friend, he sends us his stuff as soon as it is ready and he is on the site's board) We knew that some would have a hard time digesting it. It does what good writing too often doesn't do: challenges orthodoxy and comfortable assumptions.

That said, we are always dancing around the room when the email client goes "ding" and there's another email with a file attachment from Joe. Writers who are brutally honest in their craft are all too rare. "Leftneck" ones are as rare as chicken lips.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. Well, thank you kindly for this one
I have a new favorite writer.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. Good Ole Joe needs an editor.
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Checking In
Hi Miles, I'm the managing editor at World News Trust. I read-out this story. I think you probably mean that he needs a better editor. : )
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Don't sweat it, Tace
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 01:30 PM by GrpCaptMandrake
They don't build monuments to critics, even here. Next time you correspond with Joe, tell him you ran across Bob here at DU and he sends his best regards, if not his best bourbon. Us "leftnecks" gotta stick together.


Get On The H.O.R.N.!
www.headonradionetwork.com
America's Liberal Voice


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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Editing is just fine with me
Thanks for helping bring it to the public Tace
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. You're a better man than I.
I wouldn't want to have to tell him to get to, "Accept the truth and act upon it." sooner than the 22nd paragraph.

Maybe you don't consider that a part of your gig, and besides, electrons are cheap compared to paper.

Joe's readers are fiercely loyal and are willing to accept a LOT of scenery before arriving at the intended destination.

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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:24 PM
Original message
Your Comments Are Valid
Including that, with Joe, the trip is as important as the destination. : )
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. I Know That You Care...
because you actually counted those paragraphs!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. You're Breakin' My Heart
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 06:38 PM by Crisco
If we don't have the patience to read a 2 page essay (if that, hypertext always seems to take more space than print), how can it be any wonder, what we've done to the planet?
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wonder if Joe gave up any kids for adoptioin in 1969
We seem to have similar cynicism glands.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Past hope, past depression there is only conviction inspired action.
Thanks for the thread, Tandaylayo_Scheisskopf

Kicked and recommended.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Let me share with you...
An ad-hoc metaphor, gleaned from my martial arts training: When you are deep in the shit of combat, you don't have the luxury of depression, you don't have the luxury of hope, you don't even have the luxury of thinking.

All there is is action. Right action.

Make no mistake: We are in combat, for the healthy future of this nation.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. I want to hear what more opinions on this.
I've often been called "negative" when I felt I was simply being realistic. I've always been leery of hope. At one point in my life, I called hope "poisonous" because it made reality so much harder to accept when it finally got around to whacking me across the face.

For the past six weeks, hope has infected me. It felt good, but was it real? And does it matter whether or not it's real? If we're really and truly fucked, isn't it better to put on the rose-colored glasses and hang on for the ride?

Clicking on this link disturbed me because I've always suspected there was something "hinky" about hope. I want to believe, but I've learned to beware of anything I want to believe. Chances are I won't be able to think about it logically, that I will weight the scale in its favor. Reality and wanting to believe don't line up very often...
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. I consider hope to be a delusion. We are afraid of the truth.
I suspect that there will be millions of very disappointed, even angry people in the next few years when our problems turn out to be too intractable for Obama to solve. To name but one problem: We will be in Iraq for a very long time, his promises notwithstanding, because there are too many hawks among the Democratic establishment. Do you realize there has not been a Democratic Secretary of Defense since 1996? The Democrats have apparently conceded that Republicans are better at that. So all the things we wish for will simply not happen.
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. K & R --Good stuff! n/t
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4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Can't . argue . the. logic.
even if I want another toke of hope.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Where's Wiley50?
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
32. I 'only' read a little more than 1/2 of the whole thing, but as a long-time mega-enviro. and a
realist, even *I* say he's being a little more of a cynic/downer than I think is necessary. I think we CAN fix most of the world's problems - which he seems to think we can't - but whether we WILL or not is another story, due to ignorance, greed, unwillingness to change, etc. But I still think it's possible. Gore says it, Jared Diamond says it...
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. Now that's what I'm talking about
Hope and fear. Two sides of the same coin, that old coin the powerful flip to determine which side will get you to part with more of whatever it is that you have, that they want.

Fear and hope. Both good in moderation but so addictive and satisfying together, like coffee and cigarettes, that most of us can't stop.

This election people voted for hope out of fear. Maybe when the two sides reconcile by becoming both at once, the coin will disappear and all we'll have left is action.

I hope so. But I fear otherwise.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. Joe ROCKS!
:yourock:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks, Tandalayo. I needed that.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. He's so right.
We are completely fucked no matter what.
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