Jon Meacham slams Andrew Jackson on the Daily Show, yet IMO, makes him seem even cooler.

[Drunken Irishman]

I want a president who has a fucking sweet ass kegger at the White House. Damn, why can't we have badass leaders like Jackson anymore?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

1. Oh, dear. Can't help it. Sorry in advance.

That "Trail of Tears" sure was a badass thing to do! Whoo-wee!

All ya gotta do t' git on the money is kill a few thousand injuns? Hot diggity!

Again, my apologies.

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Yeah, I know.

It was more about his attitude and less about his presidency, obviously. Jackson had is flaws, but there is no doubt he was probably the coolest president we've ever had.

Note, cool does not mean good or competent or great. But c'mon, I'm sure he threw a great party.

[lapfog_1]

3. "Nunna daul Tsuny"

as it was called by my Cherokee ancestors (I'm about 1/16th and, oddly, 1/8th Blackfoot).

Read the story of the Cherokee Rose... now the state flower of Georgia.

[pnorman]

7. "Cherokee Rose" --- Google yielded this:

"Legend of the Cherokee Rose
When the Trail of Tears started in 1838, the mothers of the Cherokee were grieving and crying so much, they were unable to help their children survive the journey. The elders prayed for a sign that would lift the mother’s spirits to give them strength. The next day a beautiful rose began to grow where each of the mother’s tears fell. The rose is white for their tears; a gold center represents the gold taken from Cherokee lands, and seven leaves on each stem for the seven Cherokee clans. The wild Cherokee Rose grows along the route of the Trail of Tears into eastern Oklahoma today."

I'm more than halfway through Meacham's book (in Audible.com format), and I'm fascinated! As a kid, many, MANY moons ago, I had read Schlesinger's "The Age Of Jackson", and became a devout Jacksonian. Since then, I learned of the "Trail Of Tears", and was outraged; even felt "betrayed"! It was probably mentioned in that book, but heavily glossed over. Similar things could be said about Jefferson, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and many others. There's no doubt an underling truth here, but it's risky waxing philosophical, so early in the morning! (almost 1AM, PST)

So O-yasumi-nasai to all!

pnorman

[rebel with a cause]

9. That is strange about you ancestors.

I also have Cherokee ancestors and another American Indian Nation. I am unsure which one because my mother's family on one side is untraceable, but she use to talk about it was either Apache or Blackfoot, but she was unsure. There is a big difference in the two mentioned, but as a child she would tease me that I was either Apache (due to my temper) or Blackfoot (due to my dirty feet from always going barefoot.) I have found our Cherokee ancestor in the records, but like I said the one side of the family disappeared after about two generation.

[GrizzlyMan]

4. I'm reading his book on Jackson right now

Let's just say they don't make them like that any more. In some ways that's good because like all great men he had his flaws, but there's no denying he was one interesting cat.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. He probably shaped the modern Democratic Party more than any president.

[GrizzlyMan]

6. Yep, that's why I bought the book. If you get a chance, it's a good read

Meacham's Franklin and Winston book was also quite good.

[pnorman]

8. He was pretty close to "States Rights" in his thinking.

But he fought the concept of "Nullification" with all his strength. THE UNION MUST BE PRESERVED. But above States Rights, he placed the People.That's what the UNION was supposed to serve, rather the rich and powerful few.

Here's a phrase from Meacham's book, that caught my ear (I was listening to the Audible.com book) and caused me to stop and Google: "this is not the tribunal which can redress the past or prevent the future."

Here's the full quote: "If it be true that the Cherokee Nation have rights, this is not the tribunal in which those rights are to be asserted. If it be true that wrongs have been inflicted and that still greater are to be apprehended, this is not the tribunal which can redress the past or prevent the future.

The motion for an injunction is denied." (Chief Justice John Marshall)

That's a good example of eloquence in behalf of moral equivocation, perhaps even cowardice. Its also a good reason to guard against being seduced by eloquence alone.

pnorman

[TexasObserver]

10. He was telling well known Jackson stories, particularly the duels.

Jackson was an ass kicker, a true bad ass.

[LeftishBrit]

11. Jackson practised genocide against the Native Americans; not a model for emulation IMO

[cobalt1999]

12. Theodore Roosevelt was much cooler and badass.

In addition, Teddy wasn't into genocide.

[pnorman]

17. But he had a serious and RACIST blot on his reputation.

"The Brownsville Affair":
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The results

When soldiers of the 25th Regiment were pressured to name who fired the shots, they insisted that they had no idea who had committed the crime. The soldiers were not given any type of hearing, trial, or the opportunity to confront their accusers (all rights guaranteed to U.S. Citizens in the Constitution). As a result, President Theodore Roosevelt ordered 167 of the black troops dishonorably discharged because of their "conspiracy of silence". This dishonorable discharge prevented these 167 men from ever working in a military or civil service capacity. Some of the black soldiers had been in the U.S. Army for over twenty years, while others were extremely close to retirement with pension. Since the 1970s, the story has spread that the discharged soldiers included six Medal of Honor recipients. Among the historians who accepted this story were Jack Foner, William Seraile, Louis Harlan, Garna Christian, H.W. Brands, and most recently Richard Wormser (cited below). The evidence does not support this claim. There were fewer than 40 black recipents of the award to that time. A check of any of the reference works listing recipients against the names of those discharged shows that none of the Medal recipients were among the 25th Infantry soldiers stationed at Fort Brown.

Even Booker T. Washington got involved, asking President Roosevelt to reconsider his decision in the affair. Roosevelt instead dismissed Washington's plea and allowed his decision to stand.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsville_Affair

But here's another side of him:
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918

pnorman

[salguine]

13. Actually, Jackson WAS rather the asshole.

[Bandit]

14. This is the guy that hired Karl Rove to write for Newsweek

I cancelled my subscription to Newsweek which I have had for twenty years because of it. He wrote me a letter and said they had to have balance, a view from both sides of the aisle, and I wrote him back saying there were plenty of Republicans that could provide balance which weren't guilty of treason. Didn't help Newsweek sent back the remaining money on my subscription but I haven't heard of any articles Rove has written for them lately..

[mitchum]

15. Jackson was a racist genocidal redneck with good hair

there's nothing admirable about him...
except for the hair

[terrya]

16. Except for that pesky slaughtering of Native Americans, Andrew Jackson was the MAN.