Toyota makes crappy cars no one wants to buy

[Atman]

Just sayin. They're asking for a bailout, too, so it must be because they make crappy cars no one wants to buy, according to the anti-Detroit crowd's logic.

.

[demokatgurrl]

1. They are? From Japan, I assume? Link? n/t

[denem]

57. "Honda, Toyota support Big 3 bailout" - NOT for themselves.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/538940 (as reported from Ontario)

[Kalyke]

2. Crappy cars no one can afford to buy.

Over-priced and tacky-looking, I say.


(And, yes, I know you were being sarcastic, but I really do think they're over-priced and tacky looking).

[Atman]

4. Don't forget BORING

I can't understand the people who say that Honda and Toyota make cars with better "styling." Style is subjective, of course, but have you seen a Camry or an Accord lately? If you can tell them apart at all, you'd be hard-pressed to tell them apart from any other boring sedan. They're the Ford Tauruses of Japan. Ubiquitous and mind-numbingly boring.

.

[Kalyke]

20. Agreed.

I called it tacky, but boring would work, as well.

And, as for the Ford Taurus... it got a makeover!

It's a cutie, now:

[arcadian]

22. The Toyotas they have for the Far East market are way cool

They are smaller and more utilitarian. Of course they don't sell them here.

[Bigmack]

23. I do not understand "boring" cars....

I grew up in Detroit when the big 3 were kings.

People used to get all excited about "style" and the like. I never understood, and still don't.

It's a transportation tool... that's it. It's not an extension of my personality or my Johnson.

With what's coming around the bend, we better drop all mention of "style" and start thinking totally about utility.

My Prius is nice looking, as far as I'm concerned, but the best thing about it is 50 mpg and reliable.

This is beautiful.

[Kalyke]

40. I don't have a Johnson, being female and all.

However, it's like this: I do not want to make a several-thousand dollar investment in something I don't like aesthetically, as well as efficiently.

And, since I live in the city where I-40 and I-75 meet and have to dodge mountains full of 16-wheelers, I couldn't a bit more drive that thing you posted than I could throw it. I'd be scared for my life!

There are several factors people consider when determining their automobile purchase - it's not ONLY about one thing or the other.

[Bake]

44. My Supra was anything BUT boring ...

Sigh.

Bake

[springhill]

47. Boring maybe..............

But they run forever if you take care of them, and that is why I bought my camry.

[derby378]

66. Bite your tongue - I drive a Camry and love it

Mine is the 2001 Camry LE. I like the styling of the new models, too. I could definitely upgrade to a Camry hybrid one of these days.

[rcrush]

25. I'd buy a prius if they werent so damn expensive.

[panader0]

3. Shouldn't they get their bailout from Japan?

[Davis_X_Machina]

5. They produce in the US. Camrys come from Kentucky. n/t

[DainBramaged]

13. Just because they build them here DOESN'T mean they are AMERICAN cars

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[Progressive_In_NC]

16. Do even 50% of the parts in GM and Ford cars get made in America?

Just curious. If it's less than 50% then they aren't AMERICAN cars in my eyes.

[DainBramaged]

19. Yes, more than 70% actually (we get a lot from Canada)

we don't bring in container loads of parts from Japan and China and Taiwan, sold to a front company know as Toyota Parts Corporation and then redistribute them to the manufacturing plants as DOMESTIC parts, giving Toyota increased Domestic content. It's a wink wink nod nod shell game that's been going on for years. That to must end.

Oh and when one of the beloved Japanese cars are sold, where does the profit go?

[Progressive_In_NC]

21. Good, we own 2 Fords and a Chevy

Makes me feel a lot better.

[Touchdown]

46. EPA's level 75%. Motor Trend's 75%. AAIA 80%. Customs 50%

Those are what each, respectively consider to be domestic cars.

2006 Mustang-65% American made content.
Chevy Suburban-67%
Toyota Camry- 80.3%
Honda Accord- 70%
Mercedes Benz-62% from it's Alabama assembly plant.
Honda's entire fleet- 59% American Made Content.

http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-us-federal-government/10586272-1.html

I had to laugh in the early 90s when Motor Trend placed two GM cars, a Buick and an Olds in the Import COY contest, and GM pulled them out of the running. That same year, The Honda Accord was placed in the American COY contest.

There has been talk at Honda over the past decade or so, of moving it's world headquarters to Los Angeles, which would officially make it an American car company, but Tokyo's subsidizing and possibly their universal health care have kept them home for the time being.

[Renew Deal]

48. How many cars does GM build and import from Mexico?

Are they American cars?

[shaniqua6392]

60. Especially since they are made by non-union workers.

They are paid less, have no profit sharing or benefits. This is what the Republicans are trying to do to the U.S. auto manufacturers. They will not go along with giving the Big 3 a LOAN because they want to force them into bankruptcy. As soon as they file for Chapter 11, all union contracts are voided out. Screw the workers and screw the retirees. No one cares about economic patriotism any more. I would rather die than drive a foreign turd.

[Atman]

6. Does it matter where the money comes from?

Who does the bailing isn't germane to the discussion. The point is, Toyota is looking for a bailout. According to all the anti-Detroit threads here on DU, that can only be because Toyota makes crappy cars no one wants to buy.

.

[scheming daemons]

27. Please provide a link..... I have seen NOTHING about Toyota wanting a bailout

[Lochloosa]

56. I second that motion. I have seen NOTHING.

[theoldman]

7. Last year I bought a 2006 Honda Accord.

Frankly, I am not impressed with the rough ride, the quick steering and uncomfortable seats. I like the acceleration of the V6 but it gets poor gas millage in the city. A lot of the great reviews of Japanese cars is a myth. BTW, I have owned cars for 60 years.

[Touchdown]

50. You'll get used to it and come to prefer it.

The stiff suspension and responsive steering is more akin to a european car than an old Buick or Caddy with their soft steering, living room ride and marshmallow suspension. Some people prefer that. The Later Taurus is like The Accord, and it's sales spoke volumes about the euro-feel of a car's suspension.

[markbark]

8. Oh, I dunno....

I'm certainly enjoying my 2007 Matrix.
(T'was my first new car... 23 miles on the odometer when I signed the papers!)

--MAB

[markbark]

11. Hey!

That was my 1000th post!
w00t! :woohoo:

--MAB

[sledgehammer]

43. Fellow Matrix owner here...

My 2005 Matrix was my first brand new car. Loving it. Intend to keep it for many, many more years.

Some of the key factors I look at in a car are mileage, reliability and resale. Design and bells & whistles are secondary.

American cars have made drastic improvements in reliability and offer some pretty good warranties. And even though they have played catchup, they are doing well in the mileage arena. But in resale, Japanese cars are better (at least the last time I was shopping for used cars, which has admittedly been quite a while). The strong resale serves as a bit of an insurance in case you need to sell your car.

BTW, the Matrix is almost the same car as the Pontiac Vibe. Kinda like the Corolla and Geo Prism.

[Romulox]

68. Yeah, but isn't the Matrix made in a UAW plant? And it's a joint venture between GM and Toyota

Thus, your car is garbage. QED.

( :sarcasm: )

[123infinity]

9. Urk...I bought one last night.

We have 3 now.

[tavalon]

10. Don't they make the Prius?

Damn fine car.

[JVS]

12. Link?

When I googled Toyota and bailout, all I saw was articles saying they and Honda support the bailout of the big 3, not that they want any money.

[jakefrep]

14. They certainly don't make cars for people who like cars.

Not since the Supra anyway. There's nothing there to make the 40-mile drive to the nearest Toyota dealer worth my while.

[EOTE]

24. The last great Toyota.

The Supra was a fantastic car. Especially the mkIII Supras when they broke apart from the Celica. Toyota would really be wise to add a small, RWD, inline 6 powered sporty car back to their lineup. Toyota inline 6s were rock solid, it's a shame that it seems they only put them in their SUVs as of now. The MRS Spyder is kind of cool, and it's sweet they offer a reasonably priced mid engined car, but it's completely un-utilitarian. As of now, there are no Toyotas with the possible exception of the FJ Cruiser that interest me. And since I don't see myself getting an SUV any time soon, that's a no go. I have to agree, Toyota and to a lesser extent Honda, haven't made any interesting cars in quite a while.

[jakefrep]

30. If memory serves, Toyota does use an inline-6 in some of the Lexus models

And the IS and GS are RWD. But those are not in my price range.

[EOTE]

53. Yeah. The IS and the GS used to have I6s, but they've been replaced with V6s.

But what I was referring to is a cheap and light weight RWD I6 powered car. The IS is the lightest car in the Lexus stable and it's still pretty darn heavy. The previous gen IS300s were the closest to this formula, but they've gotten heavier and more expensive since then. A real shame considering that the IS300 borrowed lots of pieces from the last Supras, including its inline-6. Throw in the 6 speed and that was quite a nice ride.

[AlCzervik]

35. my Dad had the first incarnation of the supra and it was awesome.

and of course now since he's 69 he bought the sedan that was the fancier camry, i can't remember which model but omg it is so boring, it's nice inside but boooooring.

[EOTE]

54. That would be the Lexus ES.

But Lexus has taken steps these past few years to separate their models from the Toyotas from which they're based. I agree though, it's a fairly boring car. I couldn't imagine picking up an ES when you can get an Infiniti G35 or BMW 330i for around the same coin.

[AlCzervik]

55. no it's an avalon, i don't think they make them anymore. The only lexus i would ever

buy would an is because i'm pretty sure that's the only one that you can get with a manual transmission.

no stick, no buy.

[EOTE]

59. The Avalon is a Toyota, basically just a stretched Camry.

And the ES is now more closely related to the Avalon than the Camry. And yes, the IS is currently the only Lexus with a stick, but just the IS250 with the less powerful inline 6. The IS350 is still auto only unfortunately.

[AlCzervik]

61. the is350 is nice, my problem is that the pool of vehicles i would buy is much smaller now

since stick shifts are going out.

[EOTE]

62. It's a damn shame, too.

VW is going to be incorporating their clutchless DSG transmission into a lot of newer cars, but I'd still prefer a true manual even though the DSG offers faster shifts. So basically, in terms of fun to drive, RWD cars with manuals, there's the Miata (impractical), the Mustang and upcoming Camaro, BMW 3 and 5 series and roadsters, the Infiniti G35 and the Lexus IS250. I hear there will be a manual offered in the upcoming Pontiac G8 sedan, but we'll see. What I don't see in that list is an affordable, lightweight, RWD sedan. Hopefully some car maker will wisen up soon.

[AlCzervik]

64. i have vw now, i had a honda accord which was a good car just not for me so i

finally got the beetle convertible i always wanted and i love it and i knew what i was buying. Next car for me will probably be a mini cooper s or another beetle.

[EOTE]

65. Is your Beetle a turbo?

If so, I've got the same engine in my GTi. If you ever feel the need for a bit more power than you currently have, check out www.goapr.com. They've got a chip that you can purchase for around $500 installed that will turn your car into a completely different beast. Depending on which version of hte 1.8T you've got, you can add around 70hp and around 100lb/ft of torque. It's the most cost efficient power upgrade you can get in a car. I looked at the Mini Cooper S too. Those are extremely fun rides, but not quite as easy to upgrade as the VW/Audi 1.8T and 2.0T.

[AlCzervik]

67. no, the beetles all changed over to the same engine, 150 hp over 5 cylinders.

i think they still have diesels but as far as the gas engines go they're all the same now.

[EOTE]

69. Still a good engine.

You can brag that your Beetle is powered by what is basically half of the Lamborghini Gallardo's V10 :)

[Lerkfish]

15. Actually, I've owned both american and foreign vehicles.

I've had less problems overall with Japanese cars, EXCEPT for a toyota I had that was bought/leased brand new and consistently shut down its electrical system WHILE DRIVING, which put me in some very dangerous situations in traffic.

I realize your thread was meant to be snarky, but ironically, I think Toyota DOES make some crappy cars.
And my FIRST car was a Gremlin, so I'm qualified to determine what is a crappy car.

:)

[high density]

17. Toyota wants the big three bailed out to minimize "supplier shock"

They are not asking for a bailout themselves, but they know if GM/Ford/Chrysler suppliers go down then Toyota is up a creek in trying to source their own parts.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/538940
http://www.georgetownnews.com/articles/2008/11/19/news/doc492399f42f755197937412.txt

[gollygee]

18. I have a Toyota and it is a very good car

But I've had American cars (mainly Fords) as well and I don't think I've ever had a lemon. Lots of good choices out there. I just wish all automakers would concentrate on really useful cars - that are comfortable for people to sit in and get good mileage.

[scheming daemons]

26. Toyota is not asking for any bailout money.... they have a solid business model

And their cars are fantastic.

I have 175,000 on my 1992 Corolla..... I have 65,000 on my 2006 Sienna.... and my wife has 110,000 on her 2002 Camry.

Other than routine maintenance (oil and tire changes, tuneups).... these cars have been fantastic.


I used to by GM cars.... My '89 Chevy Beretta, '94 Pontiac Transsport, and '89 Pontiac Grand Prix all SUCKED and none of them made it o 80,000 miles before we had to get rid of them.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. 80,000?

Did you forget to change the oil?

We've had nothing but US cars (and i'm in my 50's.) I've never had a car that didn't get at least 175k before i got rid of them, every one of them still ran ok, and with one exception still had a pretty good finish left.

80k seems awfully low to get rid of a car because it wasn't any good.

You sure you just didn't used to be more interested in getting new cars every few years?
The Professor

[Atman]

33. Yet ANOTHER person comparing 20 year old cars to today's vehicles

:eyes:

.

[JVS]

34. You know, there's a reason that people keep bringing up cars that they remember from 20 years ago.

And that reason is that when they switch to the quality of many of the imports after that 20 year old car, they don't need a new car for a damned long time.

[AlCzervik]

38. my first car was a 1979 oldsmobile cutlass supreme in powder puff blue, it was

nice but the car repairs scared me away from american cars for a very long time.

[JVS]

42. I understand completely.

Cars cost a lot of money, often the equivalent of a year's wages, especially among poorer people who need dependable transportation to keep working. When you get burned on such a big ticket item, you're going to be very reluctant to come back.

[AlCzervik]

52. you know what the saddest thing is about the whole car company mess is, you know

they could make vehicles people want to buy, it's not like there isn't any talent in this country, they need new designs and i'm sure somewhere in the basements of american care companies there are designers and engineers drawing up new possibilities.

When i started seeing old folks buying Camrys instead of fords or Cadillacs i knew things for the big 3 were going very badly.

[TahitiNut]

41. We have a '77 Chevy Monte Carlo and '90 Chrysler LeBaron for this household.

Still goin' ... even though they're relatively low mileage.

[AlCzervik]

28. Toyota actually has cars and not just land yachts. GM should start making more cars

Saturn seems like a good line so why not market it more?

my problem is with the executives at GM not the union workers.

[LSK]

31. Cobalt? Malibu? Impala???

:shrug:

[AlCzervik]

32. i've seen some cobalts and not many of the other 2 except at car rental places.

i know gm can turn out cars people will buy.

Look at the older folks who used to buy and Oldsmobile or buick or even a ford when they retired, now look at how many of them buy Camrys.

[madmom]

36. The problem with foreign cars is they are TO damned small. My husband is

6'4" he has a "bum" left knee therefore he needs leg room. His "baby" brother is 6'7" , our son is 6'4" how are they supposed to fit into a foreign car. Mt b-i-l doesn't buy cars he likes, he buys cars he fits. At this time he owns 2 vans.Oh, his son is also over 6'4".Our whole family is above average in height, what are we supposed to do cut off our feet?

[Mudoria]

37. Shouldn't look to me to help out by buying one of their cars..

never owned a rice burner and have no plans to ever.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Toyota is not asking for a bailout. Where are you getting your information from? nt

[Atman]

49. It was mentioned on the news this morning that Japan was putting money in

to it's auto industry. I think the point was not "bailout." The story was about the difference in our approaches to the problem...the Japanese government is moving PROACTIVELY to shore up it's vital industry, while in the US the execs were going begging. Toyota is hurting, too. ALL car makers are. But they're not asking for a bailout, per se. But they are being bailed out by the Japanese government nonetheless.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

.

[Occam Bandage]

51. I can't comment, since I haven't read anything about it. Do you have a link?

[CRF450]

45. They sure as hell dont make any exciting cars like mine.

Well, with the exception of Lexus, but there damn expensive. The Supras were good cars, yet even those were real expensive.

[frustrated_lefty]

63. You should use some lube

if you're going to stroke yourself like that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Great.

Then Detroit won't need any of my money in order to compete.

[PJPhreak]

70. Hummm...

I have owned more than my share of "Detroit Iron" in my life. As a 51 year old "Gearhead" I have had the opportunity to own or drive most of the "Factory Hot Rods" that the US,Japan,Germany.England,Canada and Australia have made. And I will state that there is nothing that sounds more pleasant at 5am as a 69 Chevy with a 600Hp 383 Stroker,Muncie Rock Crusher,and a 4.11 Posi Rocketing away under full throttle by someone who knows how to drive such a Beast correctly.
Having said this I also have owned a 86 Nummi Toyota Corolla for 14 years. (Nummi was a joint effort of GM and Toyota to build Corollas and Novas on the same assembly line in Freemont Ca.)
To put it simpily...If any Camaro,Chevelle,GTO,Firebird,Mustang,Viper Ect was HALF as reliable as this POS 'Yota...These car Co.'s would not be in the position they are in.

To prove my point,I challenge the DU Gearheads to find an American Engine more reliable than the R-Series Toyota....The Chrysler 225 Slant Six is the only one that comes to mind in the last 50 years!!

If The Big 3 made cars that would be less problematic I would be the first to buy one!!

I also own an 2001 Plymouth Neon with 67,000 miles...Brakes are shot.Leaks oil and coolant,has what I believe is a Rod Knock (Expensive repair,about 2500 bucks) and the Stereo Quit as well!! Poor Fit and Finish Lousy Engineering,Crappy Eletronics,So-So Assembly.

This crappy Corolla has carried my happy arse for all those years and has never failed to start,run,go,stop,turn and so on. why can't The Big Three do the same,and yes I know "They" say some Fords are approaching Toyotas Quality...Approaching??? Crap,Ford has had 36 Years (Since Toyota and Honda Broke into the car market in 1972) to figure this out.So has the rest of Detroit.



If this is the "Worst" Corolla Toyota made,its no wonder you can't pry the Owners Cold Dead Fingers from the steering wheel of what is considered a "Great" Corolla !!