Atheist's Look at Prop 8

[Leftisalwaysright]

I disagree with much of this; but it does give a completely different prospective on Prop 8 and should remind us all that we can't get so caught up in one issue we lose sight of the big picture or else we'll forget about those we've before stood with.

http://www.underneathpolitics.com/athopgaynewath.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Ah.

Another one of those atheists with a martyr complex.

[ebdarcy]

2. That is a bullshit article written by a selfish, self-centered asshole who

just happens to be an atheist.

[edhopper]

3. As an atheist

I think this guy is an idiot. Yes there is a social stigma to being an atheist, BUT we are allowed to marry, we are covered under religious civil rights laws and though there is prejudice in places toward atheist there is not wholesale discrimination. Though it may have happened, I have not heard of a teacher being fired for being an atheist, I have heard of it for homosexuals.
When they propose a law to take away my rights because I don't believe in God, I'll see some equivalency. I don't see it now.

[JackRiddler]

5. Teachers fired for being atheist?

I haven't even read the OP article, cos I don't care to hear arguments for Prop 8.

But as for your statement:

http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/index.php/2007/09/26/teacher_fired_for_speaking_obvious_truth

A community college instructor in Red Oak claims he was fired after he told his students that the biblical story of Adam and Eve should not be literally interpreted.

Steve Bitterman, 60, said officials at Southwestern Community College sided with a handful of students who threatened legal action over his remarks in a western civilization class Tuesday. He said he was fired Thursday.

“I’m just a little bit shocked myself that a college in good standing would back up students who insist that people who have been through college and have a master’s degree, a couple actually, have to teach that there were such things as talking snakes or lose their job,” Bitterman said.

Sarah Smith, director of the school’s Red Oak campus, declined to comment Friday on Bitterman’s employment status. The school’s president, Barbara Crittenden, said Bitterman taught one course at Southwest. She would not comment, however, on his claim that he was fired over the Bible reference, saying it was a personnel issue.
“I can assure you that college understands our employees’ free speech rights,” she said. “There was no action taken that violated the First Amendment.”

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http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=c03efa16ad9c8ddcd600f2c51adc521f&topic=374.0;wap2

I learned about this from Hemant Mehta's Friendly Atheist blog. If you want to contact this teacher directly, you can do it through that site.

As Hemant says, it's a little long, but well worth the read. (Doesn't this person belong to a union?)


I believe I have been fired from my job due to being an atheist. I don’t know if I can prove it. I really don’t think I have any legal protection from what happened but if I do I want to know about it.

I am/was a high school English teacher at a high school in central Florida. I have been with the school for 3 years. I have had no reprimands of any kind. I have had no disciplinary actions and I have never been on any kind of improvement plan.

(Read for case)

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Teacher Expelled Over Religion (wouldn't teach creationism)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQacQy1KJ9M

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I don't have the time to look into the many cases that come up on a google search, but you made the claim.

Here's a piece of the google search:
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=teacher+fired+atheist&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


Oregon teacher fired after veering from evolution textbook. - The ...
That was enough for the Sisters School Board, which fired the teacher Monday night for deviating from the ..... Nahh…it’s just an atheist conspiracy. ...
www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/03/oregon-teacher.html - 110k - Cached - Similar pages

'Teacher: I was fired, said Bible isn't literal' by Megan Hawkins ...
Sep 24, 2007 ... Teacher: I was fired, said Bible isn't literal ... Hector Avalos, an atheist religion professor at Iowa State University, said Bitterman's ...
richarddawkins.net/article,1685,Teacher-I-was-fired-said-Bible-isnt- literal,Megan-Hawkins-Des-Moines-Register - 108k - Cached - Similar pages

Teacher Fired For Calling Adam and Eve a Fairy Tale - Liberal ...
Sep 25, 2007 ... Hector Avalos, an atheist religion professor at Iowa State ... 1 response about “Teacher Fired For Calling Adam and Eve a Fairy Tale” ...
liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=2195 - 79k - Cached - Similar pages

Stand Up and Speak Out » Blog Archive » Loretto Teacher Fired: Part 2
I’m an atheist. I’m sure that’s news to you. Atheists in a Catholic school? .... Getting a teacher fired two months into a school year — when no other ...
standupandspeakoutblog.com/2005/10/22/loretto-teacher-fired-part-2/ - 749k - Cached - Similar pages
Comments on “US teacher fired for non-literal bible reading” • The ...
Sep 24, 2007 ... Just because some teacher claims he was fired for his words, .... As far as I know, there are no atheist countries, although it in itself is ...
www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/24/literal_truth/comments/ - 96k - Cached - Similar pages

Etc., etc. The chilling effect probably affects thousands of teachers who don't speak sincerely on their beliefs.

[edhopper]

8. I stand corrected

though I still think the author's comparison is overblown.

[readmoreoften]

14. How about gay people being fired from any job for being gay whether they talk about it or not?

Gay people outside the major blue states face being fired if their employer even finds out that they're gay. Forget about "teaching it in the classroom." I'm not fully comfortable being out even when teaching college in a liberal classroom where everyone assumes I'm an atheist.

Atheists are not discriminated against for being atheists. They are not permitted free speech--or to even teach the truth, in many cases. But when someone gets fired from working a restaurant job because a co-worker finds the Flying Spaghetti Monster bible in his back seat, then it is discrimination against the PERSON, not just a group of ideologues shutting down an idea in a classroom.

[JackRiddler]

20. Quite.

In the vast majority of contexts, such as workplaces, a gay person faces more discrimination and risk merely for being found out to be gay, than does an atheist who is known to be an atheist; assuming the latter does not speak out as an atheist in a context like teaching.

Of course, this isn't a competition for who's the biggest victim. If we look at elected officials, it's a different matter. There are now some number of openly gay politicians who get reelected -- by no means representing the actual gay population -- but almost no atheists at all. Being gay meets with at least lip-service tolerance in many contexts, (mostly blue-state of course, or in the mass media), whereas being atheist guarantees you are regarded as an enemy of the society's moral values, or at best as an fanatical hater of the regular folk.

Anyway, right-wing ideology generally lumps gay and atheist together into a confused mix that also explicitly or subtly rejects a lot of other "undesirable" qualities (dark skin, foreign origins, being poor, leftism, "elitism," intellectualism, avant-garde art, anti-authoritarian views, any kind of pessimism about "America," Darwinian theories, a free approach to love and sex, taking the wrong drugs, etc.) into different heads of the same secular end-times beast (perhaps a.k.a. modernity itself). At the present historical moment, there's little doubt that "the gay" is considered the worst of these plagues of the right-wing mind.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. She sounds whiny.

Especially when it came to the hate crimes part.

She kinds skimmed over the whole gays are targeted in higher frequencies than atheists. If she believes persecution is a finite quantity, who am I to question her beliefs?

This is the kind of crap that comes from the more libertarian or "recreationally" atheistic.

I wonder when she'll get her philosophy degree?

[laconicsax]

10. Based on the kinds of arguments she makes in her blog,

that is, of course, if you can call a claim without supporting evidence an argument, I'd say she's just a libertarian who likes playing atheist to piss off her parents.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. LOL! That sounds about right! n/t

[laconicsax]

6. What a moron!

With all due respect to the homosexual community, the fact that they have civil unions or domestic partnerships instead of marriage really doesn't make a whole lot of difference as they're basically the same thing.

gay couples really don't face obstacles

File this one under idiot who happens to be an atheist. This idiot does not speak for me. Here's her blog: http://sarahlaimbeer.blogspot.com/

Although she claims the be the Massapequa chapter president of Atheists of America, a group I haven't heard of and can't seem to find any information on, aside from a two-member Facebook group, I suspect she's not yet a high school graduate and hasn't every really thought about any of these issues.

Oh...while searching for "Atheists of America" one of the first hits is her blog--a post praising Ayn Rand.

[anonymous171]

7. I like how he takes offense at Obama saying "God Bless America"

[Oeditpus Rex]

9. 'atheism is a lonely life'

Lives aren't lonely. People might be, particularly if they're given to writing columns that say, in effect, "Woe is me, my cause isn't getting enough attention because of Teh Gayz."

[Pithlet]

12. This atheist doesn't agree.

I was able to get married with no problem whatsoever. My marriage to my husband isn't questioned legally by anyone, and we enjoy all the legal benefits. Our lack of religion was never an issue. I'm 100% behind the fight against prop 8. And, I'm sorry. I think comparing the struggle that atheists face to that of the GLBT community is crazy. There may be other atheists who disagree, but I don't think the two can be compared. That article is ridiculous.

[readmoreoften]

13. This asshole has no idea what he's talking about. And I'm GAY and an ATHEIST.

Well, buddy, "the last time I checked" civil unions and marriage aren't equal, fuckwad.

Much like his comment "homosexuals don't have the monopoly on non-racial discrimination" I'd like to let Mr. Genius know that "heterosexuals don't have the monopoly on atheism." Yeah, yeah, I know all atheists are white straight guys who like science, but actually, they're fucking not all white straight guys who like science.

And its the Church and State intertwining that is fucking over gay people so hard, so why doesn't he join the fight instead of being a whiny-ass moron. By the way, GAY PEOPLE CAN BE LEGALLY FIRED FOR JUST BEING GAY IN MOST US STATES. I COULD LOSE MY JOB TOMORROW BECAUSE MY EMPLOYER 'DISCOVERS' THAT I LIVE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.

So fuck off and join the fight or STFU.

[LeftyMom]

15. The author of the blog post appears to be a nitwit.

:shrug:

[Starry Messenger]

16. This is a very shallow article.

I quote:

"Being an atheist I normally take liberal positions, and that's why I favor gay marriage. So why write a column critical of the homosexual community when all they're doing is fighting for equal rights, you ask. Because atheism is a lonely life; and our isolationism makes us prone to take our own stance, regardless of whether or not it puts us at odds with people with whom we usually agree."

(WTF! Emphasis mine). We should all be fighting for equal rights no matter what! That's the fucking point of equal rights! What does having to be isolated by a lack of belief have to do with protecting the constitution. If that were true I'd take my sand toys and go home and cede my country to the Dominionists!!

[Richard Steele]

17. Such utter codswollop. nm

[charlie]

18. It's a parody site

The OP knows this, he's having a little fun:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2918729

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x29349

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1834995

Rush Limbaugh once read this article on air:

http://www.underneathpolitics.com/quickhit1issuethree.html

[Starry Messenger]

19. Be that as it may.

I believe you, but the text is not much different than some of the posts written on DU defending "separate but equal".