Are guns the answer to attacks on Vessels?

[Turbineguy]

There have been some questions about arming the crews of Merchant ships operating in pirate waters.

"Having weighed up the risks, provision of weapons may be appropriate. However, only trained security personnel should be armed. Arming the crew is not a wise option, the risks are enormous. Although we have qualified instructors on vessels we generally do not train crew as it can lead to numerous issues particularly with client’s insurers and P&I clubs, who are very reluctant to extend cover to crew. We have to carry substantial additional insurance cover ourselves for the deployment and use of firearms."

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/are-guns-answer-attacks-vessels/#

[sam sarrha]

1. THATS WHAT BLACKWATER IS FOR...

[Turbineguy]

10. Funny you should mention that....

http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/23/blackwater-pirates-somalia-biz-logistics-cx_wp_1023blackwater.html

[louis-t]

2. Some feel the crews could be infiltrated.

Crew is often hired at the last minute, I've heard. Should be private bonded companies hired to protect. I still say, thwart a couple of hijackings by shooting all hijackers and it will stop. I'm not a gun person but jeez, getting millions in ransom for this. I've heard that the owners of these vessels fear escalation. Sorry, it's already war. 17 vessels currently being held for ransom.

[lapfog_1]

3. Bad idea.

Right now the pirates know the ship operators are unarmed, they take the ship and hold it ransom. Arming the crew means an uneven response (how many low paid crewmen are going to start shooting to defend the owners cargo?) but will ensure shoot first takeover by the pirates, even if only a few crew members resist.

Much better would be to have escort naval ships (destroyers, etc) and move ships in the area in convoys. The pirates won't attack a modern naval destroyer or similar... their source of income goes away... eventually they find other things to do.

And oh, maybe the world will quit fishing in their waters and let them go back to fishing for a living.

[maxsolomon]

4. Armed escort ships are an answer.

Or air escorts. Not many pirates would want to take on an apache attack helicopter.

[sharp_stick]

7. That would work nicely

but who will pay for it? The shipping companies don't even want to pay to properly man their own ships and I don't see the navies of the world uniting to help out the shipping lanes.

[maxsolomon]

18. The House of Saud.

it's not like they have no profits to reinvest.

[Raskolnik]

19. Actually, that's just what navies do

The most powerful navies of the world spend a great deal of their time keeping international shipping lanes open. That's how the British maintained their empire, and that's how the U.S. keeps international trade flowing smoothly.

[Sherman A1]

5. Not Really

The best solution would be a good government in East Africa that would take care of this. That said a strong presence by the navies of the world, enforcing international law would be a really good thing.

[sharp_stick]

6. The military has said that it's up to the shipper

to maintain security, and personally I wouldn't go through those waters without being very well armed and well staffed. My preference would be some mounted .50 cal guns that would send those little pirate attack boats down so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.

The key to the shipping companies isn't the weapons it's having enough staff that are trained to keep watch. Those big ships are not well manned, it's amazing how few people it takes to run them and there is hardly ever any sailor outside. The pirates know exactly the right time to come in on these ships and they are often able to board without anybody even knowing they came alongside.

[NJmaverick]

17. A few 50 caliber mounts would certainly make life tough for the pirates

but you are right, they would need to hire security teams to stand watch and then to man them, when the time comes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Maybe if the U.S. were more interested in rebuilding Somalia instead of bombing it then maybe Somalis wouldn't look to a life of piracy.

[sharp_stick]

9. Quit being so damned forward looking

I mean if we go and make sure Somalia actually has a functional Government the next thing you know the rest of the damned world would want one.

Well said BTW.

[RedCappedBandit]

11. Damn liberals and their thinking.

The solution is MORE GUNS!!11

[Raskolnik]

20. Ah, I knew it had to be our fault somehow.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. If you're going to ignore the problem, accept the consequences.

Funny how some people care more about stolen oil than the American bombing of Somalia for years now.

[aldo]

12. Gosh, ya think?

nt

[NJmaverick]

13. Piracy is out of hand

History has shown aggressive responses by nation's navies and marines is the best solution. It's time to aggressively pursue the pirates wherever they may be hiding, including with in the borders of sovereign nations. To the shores of Tripoli, in the Marine's hymm, refers to one of those anti piracy military operations.

[aikoaiko]

14. My friends and I have a shotgun and .357 whenever we go fishing .

Its unfathomable to me that merchant ships wouldn't have weapons to counter strike piracy.

[depakid]

24. You're fishing off Somalia?

:shrug:

[aikoaiko]

26. In the rivers and sounds of GA (sometimes off the coast too) --- former Blackbeard country

Seriously, the reason we started making sure we had a long arm inthe boat is because we were harrassed by some crazies one day. We became acutely aware that day we were needlessly vulnerable since we left our guns at home.

I've always put a .357 in my tackle box for when I run into sharks. Getting a 5 foot live shark in 20 foot boat is never fun. Its much easier when dead.

[Historic NY]

15. Our Merchant Ships in WWII had an armed naval guard on board...

those ships traveling in dangerous waters should have a train armed guard on board. Common sense says you hire security. The problem is many nations will not allowed armed ships to dock at their ports...thats crazy especially if your neighborhood is festering with criminals. The crews on most of these ships are small and not adequate enough to repel a boarding by armed gangs. These times call for a professional trained force to protect the crew & cargo.

[guitar man]

16. grease the sides of the ship

that ought to stop them! :P

[benEzra]

21. They don't scale the sides. They use grappling hooks,

boats with mounted ladders, or scaling poles.

[benEzra]

22. Translation: it's cheaper to consider the Third-World-hired crews as expendable.

I don't think the shippers will take ship security seriously until the pirates start costing them some serious money, and THEN they'll suddenly start paying for security. Until now, it's been primarily petty cash and beating up crews, although there have been some rare exceptions.

[jmg257]

23. Yes. Big ones. A few XM307s would be a good start. nt

[hack89]

25. No. The answer is on shore

whether a diplomatic solution to Somalia's mess or military action to destroy the pirate bases.

[alarimer]

28. They may have no choice.

The alternative might be military escort. I am not sure how practical that is for hundreds of ships in that area. Right now these pirates seem to act with impunity. Killing a few of them might dissuade others.

Maybe not arming the crews, many of whom sign on at the last minute. But hiring armed security that's been licensed and bonded may be the way to go.

[Turbineguy]

29. To answer my own posting:

Crews are trained to fight fires on ships. This is done by attending a week-long course at a school from time to time as well as weekly at-sea drills. The drills would include scenarios where the crew would pretend to control and put out a fire. The galley and the laundry are statistically the most likely places to have a fire but obviously an engine room fire would be the most devastating. There is a CO2 flooding system for fires in the ER or cargo holds. On tankers, the pump room is a dangerous place as well.

After about 20 years of weekly drills a crew member would have about as much experience as the greenest green-horn on a municipal fire truck.

For the ships crew the best way to fight a fire is to do one's job in such a way as to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Merchant ships are not built to be used as combatants. There are components in the way of clear lines of fire. There is no armour. Holes could easily be shot into fuel tanks- leading to spills and vital machinery spaces- leading to loss of power.

It would be the same with weapons training. Therefore carrying guns on ships against pirate attack would be a bad and even dangerous idea. For the short periods of time while transiting pirate waters (several places in Asia as well as Somalia) the key is to maintain highest vessel speed possible, post extra lookouts and have somebody close to the communication system to raise the alarm. And perhaps in the short term have an armed force on board with appropriate weapons to deal with pirates. In addition some small modifications could be made to mount some standard type portable weapon that can be moved from ship to ship.

The best way is to have appropriately armed vessels (not a carrier task force or ballistic missile submarines) on patrol in pirate areas. The Singaporeans have done this with some success with fast gunboats in the Malacca Straits.

(I'm a retired ships Chief Engineer.)