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sinkingfeeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 03:59 PM Original message |
GM workers make $73 an hour? Here's the rebuttal to that one. |
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Idealism (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:02 PM Response to Original message |
1. People need to be more objective and find out facts |
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BrklynLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:03 PM Response to Original message |
2. So the media and the repuke shills are trying to make union busting more palatable by |
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yodoobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:06 PM Response to Original message |
3. Whats to rebut? What is the problem? |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:26 AM Response to Reply #3 |
23. Self-delete |
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bean fidhleir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 10:14 AM Response to Reply #3 |
59. That number is probably the fully-burdened BUDGET NUMBER |
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Hangingon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:23 PM Response to Reply #59 |
69. I missed the theard yesterday. |
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yodoobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:27 PM Response to Reply #59 |
70. But thats how you compare apples to apples |
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Democrats_win (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
4. Thank you DU for the info. A Dem gave me that $70 figure yesterday. |
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soothsayer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:15 PM Response to Original message |
5. I'm sure there's overtime, too. They're allowed to make decent money. It's not a crime. |
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Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:15 PM Response to Original message |
6. so basically the really high exec salaries are skewing the mean? anyone know the median wage? nt |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:28 AM Response to Reply #6 |
24. Generally speaking, salaried employee pay is not used when averaging hourly workers' pay. |
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napi21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:18 PM Response to Original message |
7. I believe the biggest problem is senior mgmt. They demand |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:52 PM Response to Reply #7 |
74. A Lot of Chinese Executives Have Gotten Extremely Rich |
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sinkingfeeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:18 PM Response to Original message |
8. Here's a couple other items for clarification. |
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ContinentalOp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:25 PM Response to Original message |
9. That figure has been pretty eye opening for me personally. |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:26 PM Response to Original message |
10. That number also undoubtedly includes the bloated compensation of the executives. |
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Peacetrain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:34 PM Response to Original message |
11. New hires are hiring in between 13 - 15 dollars an hour |
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Jack Bone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:43 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. what new hires? |
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Peacetrain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:46 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. we must have posted simultaneously.. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:15 AM Response to Reply #12 |
27. they hired 1000 at $14/hr. then laid most of them off. |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:46 PM Response to Original message |
14. it means something though |
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Peacetrain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:49 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. New workers do not get defined pension plans.. it is 401-ks |
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Peacetrain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 04:56 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. some additional infor on that pension funding for the auto workers |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 05:37 PM Response to Original message |
17. He's using a figure that is suppossed to be a direct cost but includes an indirect cost |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:34 AM Response to Reply #17 |
25. Yes, a more accurate description would be "total compensation, including benefits" is $73/hour. |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 05:39 PM Response to Original message |
18. I want to know what the median wage is, not the mean age. (nt) |
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Festivito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #18 |
86. It's not a wage. It's a cost to employ. MUCH DIFFERENT. |
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1776Forever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 06:14 PM Response to Original message |
19. The Unions in the Country gave birth to the Middle Class - without them it is class warfare! |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:38 AM Response to Reply #19 |
26. A more accurate statment might be "The Unions in the Country EXPANDED the Middle Class". |
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whathehell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:38 PM Response to Reply #26 |
83. It was mighty small. n/t |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 06:21 PM Response to Original message |
20. They are paying that much in benefits |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 06:33 PM Response to Original message |
21. Y'know the GM CEO's got about 15.7 million in 07, about $1800/hr ... |
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OHDEM (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-20-08 09:22 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. You beat me to it! |
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Waiting For Everyman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:28 AM Response to Original message |
28. And that's nothing to the legions of $500/hour attorneys. |
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Evoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:40 AM Response to Original message |
29. My rebuttal: SHUT YOUR FILTHY WHORE MOUTH, FREEPER, BEFORE I MAKE YOU BURP YOUR OWN TEETH! |
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B Calm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 06:56 AM Response to Original message |
30. I'll bet you they included salary wages to come up with that number! |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 07:16 AM Response to Original message |
31. So they "only" make $28 an hour? That stills seems awfully high for assembly work |
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bluecollarcharlie (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 07:53 AM Response to Reply #31 |
34. Ah, see there is more NONSENSE |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:24 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. Workers doing the same type of production work make only a fraction of what UAW members makes |
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sinkingfeeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:14 AM Response to Reply #36 |
47. Well, why don't those other workers doing the same type of work form a union? |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:25 AM Response to Reply #47 |
50. Most Americans aren't in unions and don't want to be in a union. |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:32 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. .......... |
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sinkingfeeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 10:52 AM Response to Reply #50 |
61. Then stop being jealous about union wages and benefits. Unions built this country. And since the |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 11:28 AM Response to Reply #61 |
62. If being in a union meant that my employer had to ask for a $25 billion handout |
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sinkingfeeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 11:43 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. And if you worked for a bank or financial institution would you be as ashamed that your employer |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:02 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. Yes I would. I hate the fact that the banks were bailed out. |
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whathehell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:46 PM Response to Reply #67 |
84. Yes, but a different and unfair standard is being applied to the Auto Industry |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:55 PM Response to Reply #62 |
75. And if it was the unions fault domestic car companies can't make money, maybe you'd have a point |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:11 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Toyota and Honda seem to be doing well enough. At least they haven't asked for a bailout. |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:23 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. Toyota and Honda are domestic companies? |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:28 PM Response to Reply #75 |
78. Yes. Thy both build vehicles in the United States for American customers |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 01:39 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. More Disingenuousness. OK, let's go by your standards. How |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:01 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Because other auto companies make vehicles that people want |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:09 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. On that we can concur, because it speaks to the REAL problem with the industry |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:11 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. If Detroit was making "cars" and not trucks and/or SUV's, they wouldn't be in trouble right now. |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 11:49 AM Response to Reply #50 |
65. Prove it. Because I think you made that up. |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:05 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. When did I say I thought the free market was wonderful? |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:41 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. You shouldn't have to pay for it |
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MindPilot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:36 AM Response to Reply #34 |
56. Yep and then the tech at the dealership gets paid half that |
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Obamanaut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 02:52 PM Response to Reply #34 |
85. And a neurosurgeon must poke inside people's brains, and air- |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:16 AM Response to Reply #31 |
35. 28.00 an hour is not "awfully high" |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:26 AM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Relatively speaking it's high in that nobody else in this country doing similar work |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:32 AM Response to Reply #37 |
38. So shouldn't we be pushing to raise the wages and benefits of those workers, |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:43 AM Response to Reply #38 |
40. I'm not faulting anyone for getting $28 an hour for working an assembly line, but |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:59 AM Response to Reply #40 |
45. lack of help will end up with a busted union and those wages dropping to a barely living wage. |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:23 AM Response to Reply #45 |
49. $28 an hour is a lot more than a living wage, especially in Michigan |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:31 AM Response to Reply #49 |
52. No- it really isn't |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:39 AM Response to Reply #52 |
57. Or, it means I just have a different point of view than you. |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 11:46 AM Response to Reply #37 |
64. Oh bullshit! |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:00 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. No, what I believe to be "unfair" is requiring people who make far less |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:45 PM Response to Reply #66 |
72. Workers didn't cause this bailout! |
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:49 AM Response to Reply #35 |
42. You nailed it. With extreme prejudice. |
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Enthusiast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 10:25 AM Response to Reply #35 |
60. You said it, Marrah! |
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:41 AM Response to Reply #31 |
39. I have great difficulty believing US$ 53,000 a year for ANY full time job |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:45 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Show me one other assembly line job that pays even half of that |
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:50 AM Response to Reply #41 |
43. You ARE aware you're just confirming Marrah_G's point over and over, aren't you? -nt |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 08:53 AM Response to Reply #43 |
44. I'm not asking for anyone's wages to go down. I just don't think the federal government |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:02 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. But by saying that you are asking for people wages to go down. |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:21 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. No I'm not. I'm not the one asking for anything. |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:28 AM Response to Reply #48 |
51. sigh |
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Bentcorner (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:33 AM Response to Reply #51 |
55. Sorry that I don't agree with your point of view. I've never been in a union |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:50 AM Response to Reply #55 |
58. See- you have a great job- Everyone should have such a good job! |
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cabbage08 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 07:19 AM Response to Original message |
32. K&R n/t |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 07:23 AM Response to Original message |
33. Plus, they're double-counting what they should already have paid into in the pension fund. |
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20score (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 09:32 AM Response to Original message |
53. K&R. Dig into a talking point, and more times than not - you find a lie. |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-21-08 12:46 PM Response to Original message |
73. What part of that figure makes it to the bottom line on the sticker? |
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