Anti-union means all the following...

[catnhatnh]

...that an employee just weeks from retirement vesting can be fired at will (read because it's cheaper than paying out benefits). And this is prudent management.

...that owning a factory conveys both sainthood and morals to a manager...that none would ever replace a worker near benefits because down the road benefits that were promised could be voided.

...that altruism and never the bottom line drive managers-that lacking union rules their drive is to sacrafice their bottom line to long term employees.


I've worked in both union and non-union shops. In the non-union shops I knew this-if my cost to the employer grew or if FOR ANY REASON, whether I performed the job well or not, at the end of the day my job need not be based on my job or the profit derived from it. Doing it well was the base, but pissing off an individual could be death.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. To Me It's A Far More Complex Issue That Can't Be Defined.

Too many have a black or white mentality as it relates to unions; either they're horrible or they're great. Ya know, solidarity! and all that junk? But it really isn't that simple.

Each union and company hosting the union needs to be regarded on their own merits, and opinions based off of that.

I have worked in the union and non-union part of my company. I'm grateful as hell to be out of the Union and was excited as hell when I got promoted out of it. The union in my company is filled with a bunch of lazy ass morons who take advantage of every loophole they possibly can and even harass others for doing more than bare minimum work. Basically, just a bunch of scumbags.

Due to my investigations I've been able to have quite a few of the bad seeds fired, though lord knows they get away with murder before that happens. I'd love to see the union broken at my company because they hinder us so much. But that's just my company, and my company's union. Other unions are filled with hard working individuals and in companies that unions are totally valuable because otherwise management would take advantage and be unfair to employees.

But each company is different as is each union environment, so I don't think any of the argument can be neatly packaged into black and white type statements. And the whole 'solidarity' thing always seemed to be highly ignorant to me (it's no different than someone declaring that all businesses regardless of type or circumstance are all grand!).

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rucky]

3. Maybe that has something to do with how well labor & management get along?

and the culture of the workplace, moreso than the union itself?

:shrug:

[catnhatnh]

5. Management and Labor

Will never be in hard love. Every dime that goes to a worker-no matter their contribution is seen as either a gift or an extortion. It will never be seen as deserved.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Nope.

The culture at my workplace is hands down the best I've ever worked at. They are a great company to work for. Management treats the union members very fairly and openly as well, and overall the relationship is good. The problem with the union is their own mentality, lack of work ethic, their laziness, their dishonesty, and their willingness to take advantage of every loophole they can.

[catnhatnh]

8. I will not title this post

because my last was deleted because I said you are less than candid. First of all you referred to union coworkers as "scum" deny it if you care to...

Then you said how happy you were not to be a mere union worker. I will say again you are somehow full of yourself.

You sir, are not a democrat. If you oppose unionsw you are not.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. I'm A Hardcore Democrat, And I Don't Oppose Unions.

That the type of black and white narrow minded ignorance that is not conducive to discussion.

I have blatantly stated above that some unions are great but that it isn't a black and white scenario. Some are not all that great.

And most of the people in the union at my company are lazy scumbags. That's a fact. I was also thrilled to be out of the union because I didn't respect their work ethic and they harassed me CONSTANTLY because I actually did a good job. Time and time again I'd be belittled and threatened, and told to slow down. I refused. They would literally make up things about me and bait me in attempts to get me in trouble, merely because I did a good job and didn't give in to their threats to slow down to a snail's pace. That's a fact. But does my experience with one union at my own company and my feelings towards them make me anti-union? Nope. Saying so would be highly ignorant and closed minded.

You said that I stated how happy I was to not be a mere union worker; but that's a bunch of deceitful bullshit. I never said such a thing, and nothing I said could be prescribed to unions in general (i.e. ignorant black and white mentality). I was happy to be out of MY union at a SINGULAR company, with it's OWN set of circumstances. That is my point. I support the concept of Unions. I do not by default have to support every union of every company, since there are plenty that are not worthy of respect. But there are plenty that are and that are absolutely a necessity based on where they work. Each on its own merits. It is not something that can be defined in black and white terms.

Saying I'm not a democrat because I happen to work in the company where the union is filled with laziness and people who take advantage of loopholes, while hurting the company, is totally laughable and just plain wrong. You could use opening your mind a little bit, since your response was all sorts of misguided and inadequate.

[madmom]

4. I have worked in both union and non union shops, while I liked my job in the non union shop

I can only think how much better it would have been if it were union.I no longer work there had to quit because of an injury, if it were a union shop I would not have had to quit.The injury was work related but I could not afford to wait and see if workman's comp would pick it up or if the company would fight it.with a union this would never have happened!

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Thank you for spoting this! We all need to remember how valuable unions are. k+r, n/t

[PVnRT]

10. No, no, no

If you buy American cars, you love unions.

If you don't, you hate unions and are probably a freeper.

That's what all the super-smart DUers say, and they're never wrong.