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johnlucas Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 08:40 AM
Original message
Dissent is necessary to the UTMOST in any free society
Edited on Fri Nov-21-08 08:49 AM by johnlucas
The election is over now and the temporary human unity has returned to its natural fractional factional state.

I learned this from a cartoon called Garfield & Friends. "You can't get two people to agree on what pizza toppings should go on a pizza" or something to that effect. There is and has never been a consistent unity among human beings. This is part of the reason we ended up looking differently in the first place as some of us lived in the lands of the sun, some the lands of the winds, some the lands of the cold and physically adapted to each environment.

The best you can hope for is for the unity, the coalition, the cooperation to maintain itself long enough to push strongly in one direction. You cannot expect everybody to fall in line with the group consensus. The Consensus is not always Sensible.

A lot of different factions focused on one direction and put Barack Obama in the White House. And each of those factions has claims on the direction the administration should go. And each faction's claims may be oil and water to another's. But all will fight for the direction the administration should take. To expect otherwise is frankly foolish.

Some right now are perfectly pleased with the Cabinet positions Obama has picked or maybe picking. Some are bleh about it. And some are downright furious about it. Each person has the right to feel how they feel and express these feelings in a forum like this one.

'The squeaky wheel gets the grease' as the truism/cliché goes and those who make the loudest noise will be heard and considered. The election is over. NOW is the time to express your feelings and not be scared to air them even if they ruffle some feathers in here. Everybody ain't gonna agree and if somebody is pissed about the choices Obama's making he will be better off in the long run. He will have been challenged and he will learn to respect that dissenter. It's not to say there's no use for the ones who prefer not to rock the boat and hold things together. That maintains a cohesion which keeps an organization/movement together. Great for the short run to get things off the ground.

You don't start speaking at the ending, you start speaking at the beginning before the train leaves the station. As President-Elect, Barack Obama needs to hear how the populace he intends to govern feels. You have to draw a line somewhere or like so many times before you'll wait forever to see what you done happen.

Was I wowed by Obama picking Biden as his VP? Hell no. Biden voted for the war just like all the rest including Hillary (which is the main reason I didn't want her as Prez). I am sour on the Democratic party for not having the huevos to challenge and stand up to Bush and his endless crimes and injustices. There's a reason why Congress' approval rating is lower than Bush's with all his screwups. People in 2006 saw that turnaround as progress and justice for the 2000 & 2004 elections. But it turned out to be false hope. Except for a few individuals, as a whole the Democratic party was weak and ineffectual. Look at this federal bailout nonsense. Trusting the people responsible for the exacerbation of the mess in the first place is a really "Duhhhh" move. No leadership on a better way to spend this money and get it back to the PEOPLE who need it most. There's no plan to punish inept execs for this idiocy which can wreck a nation (hell, nations!). No plan to garnish their income. No plan to force over their bonuses. Nothing but another "trust me" and you see where that's getting you. Secret little add-on bailouts rushed under the radar adding incalculable amounts onto the world's record debt...the biggest debt in the HISTORY of civilization.

When you hear the ideology that set the stage for this mess with words like "center-right nation" and not a single Democrat shutting down with authority that brainwashing nonsense, it shows a weak party who cannot stand up for any idea or ideal. What ARE you if you can't make a stand. Pragmatics are wonderful but you need a heart with that head. There has to be a passion there and a thirst for justice or what the hell is the reason you're in politics in the first place? The heart must be the underline and the head must be the font style.

The ones who are so-called "concern trolls" don't want another half-hearted effort in the midst of 30 years of that Republican ideology setting the tone of the nation and how many of its citizens think. Democrats may have run Congress in the 1980's but they were playing defense and catchup to the lead of the Republican way. Democrat Bill Clinton could not change the tone despite 8 years in office. The true Progressive movement seen ushering in social justice in the 1930's and 1960's died out with McGovern's failure in 1972. And I somehow know this despite being born in 1976. The new Democratic party which transformed from the party of the slaveowners to the party of social justice for the downtrodden had effectively been dead since 1972. From then on it wasn't popular to run outloud with the party platform which is why a Democratic Leadership Council was created in the 1980's that attempted to fit in with the dominant Republican tone.

There's a 4th Branch of government and that is The People themselves. The non-lawmaking citizens. The voters (and non-voters). Obama has the golden opportunity to strike dead forever that destructive ideology of the Republicans which had run virtually unopposed since 1980. To change the very hearts of The People themselves so that their Representatives can follow their lead. This ongoing market devolution is a curse but also a blessing. It single-handedly is allowing the chance for the national tone to change.

In the past 8 years Republicans had the majority in all 3 branches of government for 6 of those 8 years and look where it brought us. From an actual budget surplus in 2000 to the WORLD's GREATEST DEBT EVER IN THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION by 2008. Reaganomics has proven itself a hoax and those other old capitalistic mentalities are showing themselves more and more to be similar failures. Obama has the chance to CHANGE the tone, his party, and the people themselves if he does what is right and what is smart.

This is why people are going crazy with every move he makes. They recognize the rareness of this opportunity and don't want him to screw it up. Clinton couldn't (or, in some people's estimation, wouldn't) break that mind control. Obama can.
If he doesn't the 2008 election will have been ultimately a waste. For that reality, they protest and complain and show concern.

He must do right by the Gays unequivocally and without fear much like JFK did right by the Blacks in the 1960's.
He must change the overall national attitude toward labor and unions, the poor and working (middle class is really an illusion since you are just working class with a little more stuff AKA the illusion of wealth), universal health care, environmental preservation, energy, our role in world affairs, militarism, imperialism, the whole nine. No half-stepping, no fear for what the recently disempowered group thinks. It's his time. Obama's time.

Not deliberate change. SUBSTANTIAL AUTHENTIC and LASTING Change. We're asking a lot of him. He must ultimately transform the entire country and set it on a new path. Playing Center is for Shaquille O'Neal and Patrick Ewing. Right is for my Guard and Left is for my Turn Signal. It's about Smart vs. Dumb. Correct vs. Incorrect. Right vs. Wrong. The word "Bipartisan" is pathetic. What Obama must do is to force the Republicans to play on his field and cater to his whims. You can have Republicans on your team but those Republicans are going to act for the cause of the once-derailed Progressive Movement. They will have no choice because The People will have forced them to and they need re-election.

"Reagan in Reverse" A Reagan Democrat is a Republican, let's get that straight right here and now. An Obamacan is now a Democrat. When you subscribe to an ideology you are apart of that ideology. Obama must do now what Reagan did then. Transform the country into a new ideology. But he must do it better than Reagan did it. And he must be in the right when he does it. The so-called Conservative Movement championed by Reagan is over. NOW is the time for Obama to TRULY restart and champion the Progressive Movement from the 1800's which never fulfilled its mission from decades ago.

Once people's lives are better under this admistration and his policies reverse and possibly correct many of the mistakes currently before him he will not only have a electoral landslide he'll have a popular landslide in 2012. He will drive a big stake in the heart of racism as many of those who currently hate him will begin to love him. And the new unity and coalition he put together will be cohesive enough to stand for decades after he has left office. He can go down as possibly one of the or The Greatest President in American History.

This is why people dissent. That greatness is visible and they will not waste this opportunity.
In any free society you must respect dissent.
John Lucas
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Dissent against what???
Edited on Fri Nov-21-08 08:53 AM by liberalmuse
President Obama has not even taken office yet. This shit is getting tiresome.

To imply those of us who wish people would hold their complaints until they get a lot more information are not respecting dissent is ludicrous. I do not believe we have to respect the people who complain--nay, who are bitching and moaning and spreading large amounts of negativity about every decision PE Obama has been making when they are less than qualified to do so, and further, when he hasn't even started his Presidency. We did not elect President Kucinich. This is President Obama, a left-of-center Democrat. I would have hoped the people who voted for him knew what they were getting into.

I have no complaints about his decisions so far, but then again, all we are getting at this point is heresay. It will never be too late to let him know if it turns out, after say, a decent length of time after he has taken office, that his appointments or his policies start to deviate from what he presented during his campaign. For now, let's give the man a little space during this transition period, or until we get information directly from him.
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johnlucas Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The People determine where The Politican goes
Edited on Fri Nov-21-08 09:12 AM by johnlucas
Never forget that. The People determine where The Politician goes. You can't wait until the house is built to ask questions about the foundation.
They want to get the foundation right from jump street.
Without a good foundation you won't have a good house.

The time to air grievance and concern began on November 5, 2008. It will be the only way he'll know the pulse of the movement he's put together.
John Lucas

P.S.: There is no such thing as Left, Left-of-Center, Center, Center-Right, and Right. There is Correct and Incorrect. Smart and Dumb. Right and Wrong. Political positions are not so one-dimensional.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. yikes. you win the cliched speech of the day award.

And no, the people largely do not determine where the politician goes. Like it or not, we elected Obama to exercise his best judgment and yes, determine, to a significant degree, the future of this country. Sure, make it known if you disagree with him, but our only real recourse regarding his choices is to vote him out in four years.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You forgot the pressure that can be applied to the legislators who enact change or obstruct it
They run a perpetual campaign which is responsive if enough pressure is applied. Just because our democracy isn't exercised to an optimum degree doesn't make our participation and dissent moot.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. yikes, you win the unnecessarily nasty reply of the day award...
yet again.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Intelligence and being well informed is also important otherwise Rush is a great patriot
for his dissent.
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johnlucas Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well naturally
Let's make that intelligent dissent.

John Lucas
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely.
I am getting sick of the "you're either with us or against us" bullshit that has been happening around here, proving to me that most Democrats and progressives are really no better than Republicans.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you for the very thoughtful post! K&R
and welcome to DU! :hi:

Don't let the complainers get to you. Feel honored - you smoked out some A-list conformity trolls this early in your tenure.

Dissent is of course our responsibility as citizens of a democracy. And it's also our responsibility as members of a political party and supporters of our President. To keep silent with our criticisms would be a disservice to Obama and to our nation. This is why he has asked us for our input.

These things are cliches because they are true. Go figure.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Chicken Little hysteria and speculation is not dissent.
At least it isn't smart dissent. Can we at least have informed, honest dissent that respects what Obama stands for instead of speculative distortions? That would be nice.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm reminded of the people that tried to arrest Rove.
We currently have an elective dictatorship system. Even unelected think tanks and unelected quasi government actors such as the ATC run this government some without consent of the people. Dissent is essential if we are to get our birthright back no matter how much you like who you have chosen to rule over you.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Welcome to DU.
I'd recommend your thread if it weren't too late, but at least I can give it a :kick:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Dissent is a great thing. Dissent just for the sale of dissent is not helpful. NT
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