Something is seriously wrong in America

[Marrah_G]

When people are so brainwashed that they believe 60 grand before taxes, dues, benefits, etc is too much and that wages should be lowered to meet the non-union standards I am left shaking my head.

I remember the days when blue collar workers could support a family, buy a home, make a better life for their children. Those days are gone and some here are in favor of dragging down the last hold outs from middle class to working poor.

We need more unions not less.

We need better wages and benefits, not worse.

We need to get back to a time where you could provide for a family, maybe buy a home, put some money in savings, send your kids to college.....without having a big white collar management job.

[asdjrocky]

1. It amazes me too.

It's always the fault of the working man/woman, the burden always rests on their shoulders but it's never the fault of the power brokers at the top.

They gave seven billion to financial services without a blink. Gave. And the car manufacturers want about 4% of that as a loan.

[1gobluedem]

2. Amen!

If you read an obituary of any man over age 68 from Ypsilanti you will probably see that he came from Arkansas, Alabama, or Mississippi if he's black, Kentucky, Tennessee, or West Virginia if he's white. He retired from GM or Ford after 30 odd years of service. The obituary might mention how much he enjoyed his cottage up north, his boat, or his RV. And how proud he was of his children who went to college and now are teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc.

Isn't that the American dream? Do we really want WalMart to be the nation's largest employer? A place that doesn't pay enough to support a single person let alone a family? A place that has driven down prices so much that manufacturers have to poison them to meet the price?

Do people honestly think that working in an import assembly plant is comparable? Located in right-to-work states, actively engaged in union busting, and paying around $10/hour?

I do not understand why we punish the working middle class in this country; why we are nickling and diming it out of existence. We act as though it's a crime to want to be able to make a comfortable living; apparently that's only for people who don't get their hands dirty.

I don't get it. I really don't.

[sui generis]

3. what, and let people have savings?

Are you crazy? Just imagine what would happen if people had all that extra money! They'd spend it on drugs and beer and weed, oh my. So therefore they should be paid less, and shot if they're not happy about it. Also Social security should be enough after retirement, anyway what would they do with their retirement pensions? go on a cruise? take up painting? If everyone's kids went to college who would do the shit work? We need uneducated laborers for our eckernomony.

:silly:

I swear Marrah, I heard that almost verbatim from an extended family member. Just proves you can filter arsenic and crypto out of bottled water, but ya can't filter out the stupid.

[Marrah_G]

4. love your last line!

I'm just astonished at the attitude change of americans in the last couple decades.

[Hannah Bell]

31. Is it only blue collar workers who can't be trusted with the extra cash?

Can I ask what your relative does for a living, & if s/he is included in the group of those who'd spend extra $ on drugs?

on edit, just in case it's not clear: i get you were being sarcastic, just curious about the perspective of the person who said it.

[Profprileasn]

5. Depends

It depends on the extras and the definition of those. Is a big house extra? Is a New car (vs a used car) extra? Is an Ipod, cell phone etc. extra? I'm saving my money. I think I might need it later.

[quispquake]

6. And the thing is...

WHO WILL BUY THEIR SHIT WHEN NOONE HAS MONEY??? The only reason for the success of these corporations is a healthy middle class. Now that THAT'S gone, who do they expect to be able to afford their crap?

I mean, how short sighted are we (or how short sighted are the select few that have caused this mess)?

[LibDemAlways]

7. Home prices used to reflect the reality of people's wages.

Not any more. Homes aren't even being built for middle class families any more. Where I live it's all McMansions. Most people around here could not begin to afford a new home in the area, and the price of the older ones has become out of reach for the middle class as well.

The cost of everything has skyrocketed completely out of proportion to what people can actually afford to pay. A doctor visit to remove a simple wart can run into the hundreds. If that wart turns out to be something worse, a person without insurance could easily be in very deep shit. Even with insurance, premiums, co-pays and deductibles quickly become burdensome.

In my area the local high school prides itself on providing a quality education that prepares students for admittance to a 4-year university. Yet, 40% of the students head straight for the local community college out of economic necessity. Most families don't have anything left over to save for college or anything else after the bills are paid.

You are right. The middle class is barely holding on, and yet the repuke party has managed to convince people that unions are bad. People who enjoy an 8-hour day, some degree of safety on the job, and any benefits at all have unions to thank. The Dem party and the unions themselves have not fought back strongly enough to bring that message to the American people.

[Serial Mom]

8. But don't you know that we are "to serve" those at top?

They want us in this position... $60,000 is too much for the workers, we may make something of ourselves and who would SERVE them after that?

:sarcasm:

[marew]

9. I agree with your premise.

But a lot of us don't make that kind of money either. I have an MS and thirty years of experience and excellent reviews. I don't make that because I work for a school system. We all deserve more, don't we? Just a thought.

[Marrah_G]

11. Absolutely

I was raised on a teachers salary- My father belonged to the teachers union. He still gets his pension. he worked hard and still had enough to accumulate some wealth by investing wisely early in his career.

Comparatively I'm not sure a teacher could do that these days.

Yes- we all deserve more. Especially teachers. But even teachers salaries will drop once people can no longer afford the property taxes.

A strong middle class is in the best interest of all.

[formercia]

10. There may come a time when $60K won't buy a loaf of bread

thanks to the destructive 'free market' policies of Bush Gang and their ilk.

[Marrah_G]

12. can you imagine.........

[formercia]

20. There was Junior begging not to dismantle the 'free market.'

that "brought wealth to so many people." He should have added. 'All of them my friends. screw the rest of you.'

[Iggo]

13. Good morning.

Want some breakfast?

[Marrah_G]

14. I would LOVE some breakfast !

:loveya:

[gizmo1979]

15. Yes the context to which

the 60 grand is compared to is Wal*mart type jobs,so it looks greedy.When you look at it compared to upper management, it looks meager.They and those that went before earned that money through many decades of fighting for what is fair.

[Jim__]

16. With the current trade policies that we have ...

... US workers are competing with third world workers for jobs. We need to change our trade policies to insure the living standard of US workers. The way it is now, US workers will be reduced to the living standards of third world workers.

[Marrah_G]

17. Very true.

[bigtree]

18. right. The focus on the remedies from the wealthy ruling-class in Congress

. . . has been to demand sacrifices from workers and nothing but lip service to forcing the same proportional sacrifices from CEOs and top executives.

[Winterblues]

19. Reminds me of a story I was told in third grade

It takes place in Soviet Union. Two families living side by side and one family has a goat. The other familiy complained about the goat. They complained that it wasn't fair. When the government stepped in and asked what that family wanted done about it, they said "kill the goat"....

[sinkingfeeling]

21. It is amazing. I was arguing that point yesterday with an IT guy who probably makes about the

same hourly wage as a GM worker.

[hfojvt]

22. Okay, so I work for $13.40 an hour

which is actually pretty good around here. One of the local factories pays about $9, and in the not-too-distant-past I made $7.15. Am I supposed to think it's a terrible hardship if somebody making $30 an hour is forced to take a pay cut to $25 an hour?

What's "wrong" with America is that 70-80% of the working class already makes less than $30 an hour, often a lot less. Therefore we typically do not have much sympathy when the group that already has the best pay and benefits going, either whines about losing some of their pay or goes on strike for better pay and benefits. It's hard to have sympathy for people who are better off than you.

We do need better wages and benefits, but that's true of the vast majority of the working class, not for the UAW. Their high wages and good benefits don't trickle down to the rest of the working class.

[Marrah_G]

23. So rather then being angry that yours are to low, you are fine with lowering his........

Do you see how that makes no sense?

We should be fighting to raise wages in the working class- not lowering the few decent paying jobs out there.

The corporations and media have spun your around so many times with their propaganda that you are pitted against union workers in your thinking, which is exactly where they want you to be.

They don't make too much- You make to little.

Workers deserve to be able to raise a family, save a little, maybe buy a house or put a kid through college.

[taught_me_patience]

25. Single workers do not have the right...

to make a living wage that is high enough to support an entire family. We've become a two wage earner household society.

[Marrah_G]

27. Trust me, I know

My single income barely cuts it and I only get by when the gas/oil prices stay reasonable.

[hfojvt]

28. I don't think that I make too little

Nor am I saying that they make too much. They do, however, make quite a bit although not as much as they used to as they have taken some cuts to help the industry. But about 50% of American households make less than $50,000 a year. So a worker getting cut to $25 an hour should still realize they are better off than many.

If they cannot buy a house and save some money on $25 or $20 an hour, then they are living wrong, or living in the wrong place. I have been working part-time five out of the last seven years, the last two years by choice - sort of. And I have a house and savings.

I would like to see more unions, but I would also like to see unions that cared more about the whole working class. On the one hand the AFL-CIO does this, but increasing and maintaining the high wages of unionized workers doesn't really benefit the rest of the working class.

[Hannah Bell]

33. I don't think she was saying they make too much, but that it wasn't

trickling down.

"We should be fighting to raise wages in the working class"

We should, but we're not, & haven't since the 70s.

[riverdeep]

24. Then you must walk around in a seething rage at the upper management

that orders a $1200 door. Or a $4000 toilet.

And maybe you are. But I don't see that coming out of the talking head shills. To them, they 'add value' and deserve it under our system. Interesting system we've got.

[hogwyld]

26. What gets me riled up

Is that the UAW is unhappy that they're only making $30 bucks an hour. I've gone to college, studied my frickin' ass off, accrued debt for said degree, worked my way up to middle management, and still make less than that! I get angry when they have their sense of entitlement just for having seniority. Then they bash those that chose to spend their money as they see fit and not zombiewalking to the nearest big 3 dealership every two years to buy the next piece of crap to come from Detroit.

[electricD]

30. you need to remember

you need to remember that those union workers you complain about making $30 an hour and go on strike for better wages and benefits, are the same workers that fight for your wages and benefits package too. Because obiviously, you aren't fighting for them. You seem to be completely blinded by what your employers tell you.

Probably telling you that times are tough. That they have to keep costs low because we're having to complete with other people making the same product. Did you ever open your eyes long enough to see their lies for what they really are? See, the thing is, they don't want to compete. They want slave labor so, they can make more money off of your back. They want you doing all they dirty work and shortening your lifespan because of whatever dirt you're working in and make you believe that you're not worth anymore than the wages your making.

Remember this, employers don't give a damn about you. The ONLY way they know how to compete, especially in the non-union sector, is to cut wages/benefits. Most non-union companies aren't really concerned about quality and paying for quality an employer MUST pay decent wages. I AM NOT saying that you don't take pride in your work. I AM saying that you've been fed the same bullshit that ALOT of people have from their employers.

You see, I worked non-union for many years. I got fed those same lines. I got fed that union workers were nothing but overpaid whiners. I opened my eyes. I looked to more than my employer/ company that I worked for, for truth. When I finally got my head out of my ass. I decided that I deserve better. I decided that if I were EVER going to be able to provide for me and mine, I couldn't survive on non-union bullshit wages and propoganda.

So, before you start getting pissed off about those union workers fighting for not only THEIR wages and benefits, their fighting for YOUR'S too.

[Hannah Bell]

32. half make $15 and under.

[robinlynne]

29. Yes, and that has nothing to do with bailng out CEOs or any other corporations.

To make that happen we need to end nafta and cafta and stop letting our industries go abroad, and stop letting big corporations run our government, tax the wealthy again, provide stimulus for 100% american production perhaps by taxing imports.

Bailouts will not help the unions in any way, if that is where your thoughts are coming from!

if not, sorry for the rant.
But there isn't anyone here talking about HOW to give the unions more power.

[MadHound]

34. There's only one thing that burns me about what automakers earn

That's the sheer simple fact that teachers make less, much less. We've absolutely got to change our funding formula for schools to one that isn't based on local property taxes and the whim of the voters.

[sendero]

35. The fact that a single worker..

... could support a whole family in the past has little to do with unions and a lot to do with relative standards of living and our ability as a nation to exploit other countries' resources and labor.

It's over Jonny, no matter what - it is downhill from here.

[Greyhound]

36. Indentured servants fighting to bring the same conditions to others.

It is just frightening to see how terribly effective the ceaseless brainwashing has been.
:kick: too l8 to rec.