demanding that Obama charge in and prosecute bush is not something I support

[cali]

It's putting the cart way before the horse, and it would accomplish nothing beneficial. I support Congressional investigations and investigations springing from the Justice Department. And frankly, I'd much rather see bushco charged and tried under international law.

Nope, I don't want President Obama jumping in to prosecute bush. I realize that puts me in a minority here and leaves me subject to being called a collabolator, blah, blah, blah, but in the real world, it's just not viable, and I don't think, under current circumstances, it's desirable.

[mike_c]

1. I don't care who does it or how they do it....

I just want to see his ass in jail. The sooner the better.

[IndianaJones]

2. nothing remotely like that will ever happen. nt.

[soothsayer]

5. Yep. That ship has sailed.

[derby378]

3. Bullshit - we need to show the world we can take out our own trash

George W. Bush needs to be made an example of - so that anyone else of a like mind will know that what happened to Junior can happen to them, too.

Yeah, I'm channelling a little Coultergeist here, but dammit, this is OUR nation, so we better act like it.

[cali]

7. bullshit. and it won't ever happen. time to live

in the real world. And damnit, why don't you just have enough courage to say "It's MY nation"- cause you don't have the right to speak for anyone but yourself.

[derby378]

16. Here's a little "real world" for you...

My father-in-law is recuperating from knee replacement surgery. It's a slow and often painful process, but his spirits are improving.

He's an Army veteran. WWII-era, to be exact. I think he lied on his application to get in, but that's beside the point.

He and his "band of brothers" were dispatched to the Philippines. Then the Japanese took Bataan and Corregidor. My father-in-law and his fellow soldiers hid out in the hills until some passer-by Army officer convinced them to surrender to the Japanese, assuring them of decent treatment as POWs.

This was also bullshit. The Army officer and all those soldiers - including my father-in-law - wound up on the Bataan Death March.

He doesn't like to talk about it too much. When he did at one point, he said that the 100-mile trek wasn't so bad in itself. It was spaced out over 10 days, I think, and any soldier in good condition can handle a 10-mile hike a day.

But there was no food, precious little water, oppressive heat, dysentery, and abusive Japanese soldiers. American servicemen dropped like flies all along the way.

Then my father-in-law was placed in one of those notorious prison ships that carted him to Japan, where he was employed as slave labor by Mitsubishi in one of their mines, beaten on a routine basis, constantly fed starvation rations, and always under the impression that he could be killed the next day.

This went on for four long years.

In short, my father-in-law suffered tremendously for his country. More than you and I should ever have to.

And I do not want to be the one to tell him that he suffered all this torment just so that those who seek to harm America's very foundations will never have to face justice for their crimes.

I will never be the one to tell him that.

What say you?

"Welcome to the real world..."

[cali]

18. I'm sorry your FiL went through that. It changes nothing

in the real world, Obamsa is not going to prosecute bush. and bush is not the first president to harm America's foundations. And frankly, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that your FiL suffered for nothing because of the actions of bush and his not being prosecuted by Obama.

[JDPriestly]

25. Do you believe that the CEOs of Halliburton should face sentencing

if it is found that Halliburton, with their approval, knowledge or ratification of Halliburton's acts, committed fraud on the U.S. government?

[louis-t]

19. Wow, for a second I thought your FIL was REALLY old.

Your timeline says WWI instead of WWII. What a horrible thing to have to go through, Bataan Death March.
Bush and his band of criminals should stand trial for their crimes. I hope stupidface has nightmares every night for the rest of his miserable life and sees the faces of all those he has killed.

[derby378]

23. Oops...

Thanks for catching that. My typing has started to suffer over the past few days. Yikes.

[OneDemsConscience]

4. Maybe Not Obama

But there definitely needs to be a congressional investigation. The culture of corruption in the Republican Party goes back to the Nixon days--until they are held accountable they will continue to pull the same crap.

[babylonsister]

6. That's okay; Nadler's got this covered (maybe):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3612729

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. I'm shocked!

No... really... I am

It's not like he's gonna be doing everything *himself*, you know... he can appoint a special investigator. Do you think he's going to be tackling the economy & the environment all by his lonesome? What about the automakers crisis?

You gotta strike while the iron is hot.

[cali]

13. it would completely derail his presidency

and no, he can't just appoint a special prosecutor. If you don't think that public perception counts, you haven't learned jackshit.

[Ghost in the Machine]

20. public perception would be that he's letting criminals walk if he doesn't do anything..

public perception would be "so much for *change*... meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Believe me, people *know* Bush/Cheney are criminals. When I hear it in the grocery store in *my* small, bible-thumping town in East Tenn, I have no doubt at all that it's a known fact.

[JDPriestly]

27. cali, please read the Oedipus trilogy before you post any more on this.

You are wrong. The dirt of the Bush administration has to be cleaned. Bush has no friends. His own party did not want him at their convention. Nobody wanted him to campaign for them. He is an outcast. He hid criminal conduct. He thrived on it. There will be no peace of mind for the American people until we know what happened and have seen the criminals pay compensation for their crime and possibly even serve sentences.

We are not talking about political vendettas. We are talking about crimes like theft and serious violations of the Constitution. These are not things that you just overlook. The fundamental integrity of our government is at stake. Obama has to address this, hopefully in manner that involves him and his office as little as possible.

[JDPriestly]

26. A special investigator is exactly the answer.

Obama will look complicit if he does nothing. The reality of the crimes will out eventually -- and unless Obama acts, the evidence of the dirty deeds will become the elephant in the china closet will not be out there for all to see until the evidence is stale. Obama will be blamed. He has to take an action on this. The best thing is to separate the investigations from his administration as much as possible. But serious and extensive investigations must take place. Otherwise the unanswered questions, and the false accusations as well as the true ones will drive a stake in the soul of the country.

If you think about how the Bush administration hid the pictures of the coffins returning from Iraq, how he is now silencing information about the alleged executive agreement he is entering into with the Iraqi parliament, you have to ask what else has been hidden from us? What is there that is so horrible we are not allowed to know about it?

I will not be at peace with myself or my country until the truth is out there and until we deal with it.

There is a festering culture of lawlessness in the Republican Party. And some members of the Democratic Party may also be involved. Obama has to permit Americans to see it in all its horror and to deal with it.

I do not want to see Obama acting as yet another enabler of the Republican's pulling the wool over the eyes of the American people. Clinton made that mistake.

Obama wants very much to be loved, but he has to understand that, as president, he has to earn that love by more than just smiling and speaking beautifully. He has to show strength and integrity. I firmly believe that he is a strong, honest person deep down. But his desire to please people can get in the way of his courage. He has to have the courage to confront the truth -- to deal with the accusations of criminal behavior that have been made against the Republicans. Some of the accusations are undoubtedly true and some will be found to be false. It is Obama's duty to our country to establish a process that determines the facts about what has gone on behind the closed doors of the secretive Bush administration and to charge those who may have committed crimes. At this point I could not name names, but I know that crimes were committed -- especially financial crimes.

And then Obama needs to open all the doors and windows of the White House during his presidency. He has to let in the sunlight and the fresh air on his own administration. He should point out when Republicans criticize his formation of some kind of investigatory body regarding the conduct of the Bush administration that he is applying the same standard to his own administration that he is applying to the Bush administration. That will earn him respect and trust and he will need that over the next years.

In a sense Bush has paid the price for his secrecy and for protecting crimes. No one respects him. He was not even invited to his own party's convention. He was not welcome on the campaign trail. So, the Republicans are not going to balk at fair and open investigations of what happened. Better now than later. We cannot allow history to remain hidden.

[Greyhound]

9. Color me surprised too.

:eyes:

[BobRossi]

10. Repairing shrub's damage far more important.

History will not be kind to the chimp. We have bigger fish to fry.

[cali]

15. that's exactly right.

[JDPriestly]

28. No the criminals in the Bush administration are the big fish we need to fry.

Obama should appoint a special prosecutor to look into the crimes of the Bush administration, distance himself from its activities. The prosecutor should call a grand jury so that the deliberations will be secret.

Meanwhile Obama takes care of business and disassociates himself from the investigation and prosecution of the Bushies. It will take a couple of years to investigate and hold grand jury hearings. By that time, Obama will or will not have established himself. That's the way Obama should handle it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. I agree.

Obama is the president of all the people, and I don't want to see him at the head of what would be called a partisan witch-hunt.

I'd much rather see the investigations come from the ground up, through the AGs office, and through congressional committees, and then for Obama to 'reluctantly' let justice take its course.

I don't ask anything of Obama but keeping out of the way.

Except one thing - changing the current stance that Americans are no subject to the world court. I'd love it if, with a stroke of a pen, he made it impossible for Cheney and Kissinger and W to ever leave this country again without the threat of arrest upon landing.

[JDPriestly]

29. Also a good plan, but investigations, a public airing there must be.

[Webster Green]

12. Great. The rule of law means absolutely nothing..

Why? Because the dems are fucking cowards, so the rule of law no longer matters. :banghead:

[cali]

17. whatever. investigations come before a prosecution anyway

if all you howling for prosecution of bushco now, now, now, actually did give a flying fuck about the constitution and justice, you'd grasp that. you actually just care about revenge. pathetic and I'm sick of people sanctimoniously dressing up vengeance in justice's clothing

[Webster Green]

30. Biggest load of crap ever foisted upon the Internets..

Are you fucking serious? The high crimes committed by these fascist fuckwads are painfully obvious. The evidence is overwhelming.

The failure to hold them accountable is traitorous in it's own right. :wtf:

[mdmc]

14. I support it

but I know what I support don't matter.
Obama will do what he wants and I will vote for him in 2012, unless I want to toss my NYS vote to a leftist (not to worry - the Dem will always get my electoral vote).

[rucky]

21. The horse is several furlongs ahead of the cart.

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. Augusto José Ramón Pinochet would approve

blah, blah, blah...... justice..... blah, blah, blah..... torture.

[JDPriestly]

24. Actually, you are not in the minority. In your earlier posts, you seemed

to oppose any charges against members of the Bush administration. I agree that there should be investigations in Congress and investigations by the Justice Department. Criminal charges are not politics by another means. They should not be brought unless they have substance. I believe that many people in and associated with the Bush administration committed serious crimes including fraud and other financial crimes as well as some violent crimes. In addition, members of the Bush administration committed human rights violations that have caused the United States to lose the moral high ground in the eyes of the world.

I am also hoping that people whose human rights have been violated by this administration will prosecute civil lawsuits against some of the key players.