How would you help an 11 year old child who is suicidal?

[Beausoir]

Background:

This is a classmate of my son. This is a very small community. My son attends a school that teaches grades 5-9.

My son came home a day or two ago and explained that another child had "been having suicidal thoughts". That child was sent to the office and then to the Emergency Room.

They sent him back to school. He bolted from school and ran into the woods. The paramedics found him.

He was back at school today and was the focus of so much gossip...this IS a Junior High school after all.

Late this afternoon, he was transported to the Emergency Room by the police.

His parents are not "available" so this child is currently in the ER, curled up in a fetal position, with some warm blankets.

What has happened to this little boy? What horrific thing has happened to him?

He's not even a teenager yet and he is doing his level best to kill himself.

I can't help him, because Hippa laws prevent me from getting close to him, even though, I suspect, what he needs most is a kind, loving and strong mom to at least give him a hug.

I have adopted 5 kids out of poverty. My plate is, quite honestly, full.


How can I help this little child?

What would YOU do to help this child?

[Haole Girl]

1. Get them professional help...

immediately. I hope everything turns out well... and soon! :hug:

[Beausoir]

2. How am I supposed to get "them" professional help?

[Divine Discontent]

4. hmmm sad.

maybe you can call a children's agency that can send in a nice lady to talk to him? maybe the laws allow that? I appreciate you wanting to help. Not a lot you can do, I know. You can ask a nurse to talk to him a little and say let me give you a big hug sweetheart, I promise things are gonna get better, just let us help you.... sigh.. sorry to hear this sad thing. I will pray for him.

Do what you are able to do, and just hope.

Many different Yes We Did items in the Obama/Biden section www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[Double T]

3. Take him under your wing and give the child all the support you can.

Let the child know that you really care and make yourself available when the child is in need of someone to talk to and receiving love.

[Beausoir]

6. I can't even get close to the child due to Hippa.

I couldn't even get inside the hospital.

[Kire]

99. due to Hippa?

please explain

[MichiganVote]

Chances are he has been referred for help through PS at this stage.

[Starry Messenger]

5. Do you know his family or is your son friends with him?

What a horrific situation. I'd want to help, too. Kids today really get put through the meat grinder. :(

If he's in the hospital there is probably little you can do. I'm sure there are some pretty strict privacy laws.

[Beausoir]

7. You are exactly correct.

My son "knows of him".

And you are correct, I can't really help him.

But...this child is haunting me and my husband.

[Starry Messenger]

12. I guess I would try to think of a way to be supportive when he gets out.

Maybe indirectly. A trip out to pizza with your kids and him? Invent an occasion...I'm just thinking out loud here. I work with teenagers and this is always touchy. How to help without getting too "mushy" and embarrassing for the kid. Just establish a safe place for him, where he feels involved...

[Dorian Gray]

43. It's very sad

and the hardest part... there is actually little that you can do. Provide a list of resources (including counsellors, cheap university hospital counselling services, etc.) to the parents and make sure the school officials know that this child is in trouble and you hope that they will refer him to a social worker who can help. That's pretty much the extent of your ability to help someone else's child in these circumstances. I wish him the best. So very horribly sad. Poor child. :(

[wildflower]

59. I agree with what MPK said

Knowing he's not alone, that there's someone in his life he can trust and rely on, can make a big difference.

[Cronus Protagonist]

80. I'm a mentor.... he could be persuaded to sign up for a mentor program

That's the best long and short-term thing one can do to help. IMHO. Also, if the mentor thinks the kid really is suicidal, they can bring resources to bear that few others can.

[Cleita]

8. That's a hard one.

Maybe finding a psychologist who can determine if the reason for his suicidal tendencies are from his home, his school or other environmental pressure. Once you find the reason and remove the child from that environment, I think it would be a start.

[mopinko]

40. you are seriously misunderstanding the situation.

first of all, my kid's friend parents have no right or ability to do any of the above. second, you know nothing about mental illness. nothing. "environmental pressure" is not what causes mental illness. people's brain go haywire for reasons that have nothing to do with anything. the old freudian- x happened, so y damage was done is pure bullshit.
and removing children from their families is about the most damaging thing you can do.

sorry if i sound cranky. but i have been there, and you have a very simplistic view of a very complicated situation.

[wtmusic]

47. Whoa.

"You know nothing about mental illness"? A bit harsh.

First, there are a lot of options for a friend's parents. Second, environmental pressures are very capable of inducing suicidal thoughts in kids. And if the kid is being abused removing them from their "family" is not only not the most damaging thing you can do, it's about the only thing you should do.

[mopinko]

54. and it is a giant leap to assume abuse.

know nothing about mental illness- yes, when you assume that there is a cause and effect relationship like in physics class, you know nothing. and pretty much by definition a kid this age trying to commit suicide is mentally ill. the chemistry is disturbed. may have absofuckinglutely nothing to do with anything besides a sleep problem. or a nutrition problem. or a bully at school.
yeah, i have a real hard time with the parent police. real, real.

[wtmusic]

58. Who's assuming?

The fact is that in some cases they are linked, and you can do something about it or bury your head in the sand until this kid destroys himself.

"Child guidance clinic cases were reviewed for abuse history, diagnosis, depressive symptoms, and suicidality. Many depressed abused children were found to have been previously diagnosed exclusively with conduct-related versus affect disorders. The results suggested that abused children are at specific risk of developing depression and suicidality and that a subgroup of those with early-onset depression may have acquired the disorder concurrent with parental abuse."

http://www.springerlink.com/content/y20k655v75r5v928/

[mopinko]

61. and some kids brains just go on the fritz.

for no known reason. and people like this here lynch mob destroy the best hope the kid has by tarring the parents without any facts whatsoever.

[RedCappedBandit]

89. Hence his suggestion was to find out whats wrong

Which is what SHOULD be done :shrug:

[Kire]

102. lynch mob?

what are you talking about?

[amitten]

66. Mental illness can arise from different factors.

Sometimes genetic, sometimes environmental. Severe abuse can most certainly give rise to psychological disorders, as any professional would agree.

Not everyone is the same, you know. Your experience is not everyone else's experience.

[Cleita]

79. This seems very personal with you. n/t

[mopinko]

90. yup, it is. been there done that.

it is ugly. it is painful. and people assuming the worst about parents is an enormous burden to the whole situation.
the parent police around here drive me nuts, anyway. but this is, as you say, personal. walking away from a locked door with your kid on the other side is about as hard as it gets, short of losing them altogether. and people here insisting that this child should not be sent back home, and or that the kid should have a guardian appointed have no idea what kind of damage they could be doing. taking a child out of a family always causes great harm. even if it is the best thing to do, AFTER LEARNING THE FACTS, it still causes a mighty wound to the child and to the family. the best option is supporting the family, intact, until it is clear that this family cannot be saved. it is an option of absolutely, absolutely last resort.
and the stories told by kids in this situation are likely to be grossly distorted. obviously they do not have a correct picture of life if they would rather die. how a normal teenager sees their parents is bad enough.

[Kire]

103. why is it so obvious...

...that they do not have the correct picture of life? Maybe their life is so miserable that they would rather die. Is insulting them by calling them grossly distorted going to solve the problems?

Let me know how that works for you.

[Runcible Spoon]

135. maybe he wasn't raped or beaten, but neglect IS abuse.

I obviously know as little as anyone else here about this situation, but parents who would let their troubled child languish in an ER sends up red flags. Even though being questioned and evaluated may be embarrassing for them, it's far better than losing their child. Many parents are in denial about a child's suicidal tendencies. I have seen two classmates of mine kill themselves, and in both cases they were not abused but were generally ignored by their parents. I'm not arguing causation, bu certainly a less than involved parent can miss signals and not intervene in time. For this child, it is NOT too late.

[mopinko]

137. maybe they are out of town.

you have no idea.

[Runcible Spoon]

139. OK, so you leave an 11 YEAR OLD with no emergency contact to go out of town.

Still neglect. Let it go, you don't have to be "right" on this thread.

[Kire]

101. you seem absolutely sure there is no abuse?

why are you covering up something, when you don't even know what it is?

[mopinko]

132. i'm not sure. but no one else here is either.

i just find it very easy to imagine the parents of this child, who may or may not have failed this kid in any way, finding a lynch mob here, ready to take their child away from them. since i have worn those shoes, i am outraged for them.

[Kire]

148. well good luck working that out

I hope it becomes more difficult for you someday.

[Cleita]

50. Maybe I do, but I think most people think a good place to start is

a psychological evaluation. I'm just thinking back when I was a kid and I felt destructive, not suicidal, because of a situation at school. Once people figured that out and removed the situation, I was okay. I don't think I ever suggested removing anyone from their family. I think my idea would be to involve them to figure out what was happening. Also, you are making the big jump that the kid has mental illness, maybe he doesn't and needs a professional to sort that out.

[mopinko]

56. 2 trips to the er? he will be evaluated.

might not do him shit good, but he will be evaluated. but really, by definition, this kid is suffering from depression. what happens next is a crap shoot. just a crap shoot. been there. that is what it is.

[Kire]

104. you made up your mind about that one

can't talk you down from that ledge, can we?

[tomp]

77. sorry you're stressed, but you're wrong.

"people's brain go haywire for reasons that have nothing to do with anything. the old freudian- x happened, so y damage was done is pure bullshit."

this is about as ignorant an approach as i can imagine. whatever needs to be done with this child, flagrant disregard of science and bashing frued unreasonably isn't going to help.

I'm going to assume that you're just cranky and will see how unreasonable you are being in the morning.

peace.

[mopinko]

93. no. assume that i have walked in this families shoes

and this kind of parent police crap is an invasion of an absolutely destructive sort.

[Kire]

106. You know what they say what happens when you assume something

you make an ass out of u and me

[Kire]

105. Hear hear!

[Kire]

100. "pure bullshit"?

It has been two days since you wrote that, are you calmed down now?

Do you have any other theories that will help us understand what you are trying to say?

[Fleshdancer]

9. It takes a village...

You're probably not the only parent to worry about this boy. Is there any way to connect with other parents/people in the community to find a solution? And where the f**k are the parents? Why are they unavailable? Does this boy have other family members? If not, it seems like the state has probably stepped in by now.

My heart breaks for him. Please keep us updated.

I know I'm jumping to conclusions, but the first thing I thought of when I read your subject line was "how many years has he been on ritalin?".

[Warpy]

44. You could just as easily ask

"How many years has his doctor said he needs Ritalin and his parents refused it?"

I think the key to this whole thing is probably "The parents aren't available right now." Something's going on in the family and for some reason this kid is falling through cracks all over the place.

Still, he's on the radar now and will likely get some sort of help. It's a crapshoot whether he gets what he needs or not, but at least people who do it for a living will try to help him.

[Kire]

107. Maybe he'll become a great artist someday....

...someone should send him to acting school when he grows up.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. "His parents are not 'available' " Does he have a guardian?

Someone needs to act in this child's best interests.

I agree with the poster who said to help get this child professional help.

[Beausoir]

15. This is just a nameless child in my community. There is nothing I can do to help.

His parents are obviously not interested in his welfare.

Laws prevent me from even phoning to check on his welfare.

This is a classic case of slipping through the cracks.

[ColbertWatcher]

17. If he has had trouble in school the teachers are supposed to do something.

Perhaps an anonymous letter to the school and the media will get something done.

[Beausoir]

11. Kick. I know it's a longer read than DU is used to, but this is about kids,

I would consider fostering this child. Years ago, I was a foster-mom.

I guess the bigger question is...what in the hell would drive an 11 year old child to try and kill himself?

Are we seeing, for some reason, a physiological reason?

[Starry Messenger]

16. I replied a little more up above.

As for suicide at 11? So many reasons. Gay, parents are fundies? Secret illness, abuse? Despair. Teasing at school. :cry:

[Fleshdancer]

21. here's an interesting article on the subject:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/08.06/BoysStruggleToB.html

Risk-Taking and Suicide

"Boys feel great concern about growing into adults," Pollack says. "They overwhelmingly see manhood as filled with unrewarding work, isolation, unhappiness, and disappointment."

He believes such feelings can push boys toward risky behavior and even suicide.

Many boys interviewed for the study talked of peer pressure to use alcohol and marijuana and to drive beyond the speed limit. Mixing that combination with depression can add up to accidental injury and death that has a suicidal component.

"Boys are three to four times more likely to commit suicide than girls," Pollack notes. He mentions a spate of six suicides that occurred in Boston last year. "Each of the six had mentioned their sadness and depression beforehand, or revealed it through anger and irritability. However, no one took them seriously.

"Psychologically, the difference between boys who commit suicide and those who commit murder is not always that large."

[riley3]

13. Would it be possible to raise funds for the child? Perhaps if he could see

people cared about him to some degree, it would help him. It seems he has nobody and nothing to live for, and he is smart enough to comprehend his situation. You have your hands full with 5 kids, and it would be very time consuming to really help him. Are there social organizations in you town that might help?

[elleng]

14. If the hospital has a psyche department,

they should be involved, and ER should know that.

That's a lot of 'shoulds,' tho.

Thinking of him and you.

[Beausoir]

18. Yes, there is a "Grace Unit". But I doubt it is equipped to handle a suicidal child.

I am just gutted about this kid.

I don't know him. Never seen him. But something just triggers me about this child.

[ColbertWatcher]

22. Is there a university nearby with a psychiatry school?

What state is this in? I cannot believe there are no mental health professionals anywhere near by.

Please don't tell me there are more churches in town than there are college students.

[Beausoir]

26. Gosh no. This is the tundra up here. Nearest reputable college is 2 1/2 hours away by car.

[elleng]

30. Tundra as in Alaska?

.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. Ugh. How about student activities? Is there a teen center?

Some kind of sport? Hockey? Pool? Doesn't matter what sport, just so long as it involves moving around.

How about a theater? A music class?

Damn, this is what I hate about small towns.

[elleng]

29. I sent your post to my daughters,

and the 23-yr old just responded. Just told her that parents are not available. She said, Their "unavailability" is also called "neglect" and they can be "arrested".
She received her bs, and is going on in 'public health.' She said the following:

Because he was evaluated in an ER he was assessed to not be a harm to himself or others, while this is often times not the case. There's legally nothing that can be done because of HIPPA's strict privacy guidelines. The parents should be required to be in the hospital for such evaluations, as the kid is a minor; therefore they are legally responsible for his care and can be held accountable if he doesn't receive proper care.
Questions to ask: Why is the boy making suicidal thoughts at school and not at home? Perhaps he feels that school is the only place where he is given attention (sounds like this is the case) and therefore there should be enough legal cause to have child services evaluate the home situation. This might be a good first step. As long as the kid isn't present when they interview the parents.
Your friend should make an anonymous call to child services saying she has reason to believe that the child is living in an environment that is either resulting in his mental and emotional damage, or the atmosphere is not one that is helping to cope with his pre-existing emotional challenges.

[ColbertWatcher]

34. I vote to have your kid Secretary of HHS instead of Daschle. n/t

[elleng]

57. THANKS for that, 'Watcher!

.

[Beausoir]

35. Great, informative post.

Obviously, this child is being damaged.

Bless YOU and your daughter for taking this time.

[elleng]

41. Thanks.

Are you able to follow up, as my daughter suggested?

'Your friend' (that's you, Beausoir) should make an anonymous call to child services saying she has reason to believe that the child is living in an environment that is either resulting in his mental and emotional damage, or the atmosphere is not one that is helping to cope with his pre-existing emotional challenges.

[mopinko]

98. maybe this is not about him. maybe it is about you.

you draw a pretty detailed picture on this blank slate. maybe you should examine your own triggers.

[Kire]

108. is that like staring at your belly button?

examine your triggers? what does that even mean?

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snot]

19. Questions

I have no expertise at all, so apologies in advance if this isn't helpful.

Pls describe his attempts to kill himself. Sorry if I'm dense, but the details are not clear to me.

Is there any other adult in the vicinity who could be brought to see his plight? (Allies might help.)

It seems to me likely psychological and perhaps legal help may be needed. If you can find one or the other, they might be able to help find the other.

Sometimes schools have some kind of associated psychologist or counselor. I don't suppose this one does? Might any in your area be willing to help on a pro bono basis?

Sorry this is so inadequate.

[Beausoir]

68. Answers: He talked to his classmates. He told them he was suicidal. He ran away from school into

the woods.

He was "retrieved" by the police.

He attended school the next day.

He voiced suicidal thoughts AGAIN.

He made it through the entire school day...again.

At dismissal, he apparently voiced suicidal thoughts to his teacher.....again.

His parent or parents have not showed up.

The police took him to the ER.

The ER Nurses took charge and fed him, warmed him, and loved him.

[Kire]

109. I think snot would like to know what the content of the suicidal thoughts were

we already everything you just said

it's a good summary, but snot was looking for new information that might lead to a further development

[OhioChick]

20. Your options are quite limited due to HIPAA....

Explain the situation to Child Services/Welfare and get the school/teachers involved is my best guess. I feel for the child, however due to the strict HIPAA laws, you can't risk a lawsuit by the parents if they feel that you're interfering.

Tough situation, that's for sure. There are many kids out there in this shape with no one to turn to. It's a damn shame.

[Beausoir]

23. Yep. There is really nothing that I can do.

His parents are not in the picture. This child has been PLEADING for help for quite some time.

Something VERY BAD is happening to him at home.

The police are now involved...but that doesn't help him tonight.

My heart just breaks for this poor kid.

Thank you for responding.

[OhioBlue]

24. wow. that poor kid!

I am not sure what to tell you.. I'll offer some advice - but it is just me thinking - no professional opinion or real good experience.

However, I do have a friend who's 12 yr old grandson recently committed suicide. The family is just devastated - so even at 11 I would take it very seriously.

Maybe the first step is to talk a lot to your son.. find out what he knows and help him deal with his emotions about it. Also stress how important it is for kids to be friends to this little boy and not tease him. Maybe you could also talk to the teacher(s) or other parents?

[Blue Diadem]

25. I don't understand what you mean by his parents aren't available

They aren't at the hospital with him? I would suspect the ER would be admitting him if they suspect this child is a danger to himself. He needs an evaluation. I would think 2 trips to the ER and the paramedics finding him in the woods would send red flags up if the Drs missed it before.

I read that your child knows of him. Has he heard rumors that may have been embellished? How do you know that this child is still in the ER and not admitted?

[Kire]

110. good questions

[cpamomfromtexas]

27. Amino acids got me back in the land of the living

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

28. A child with suicidal ideations...

is a thankfully rare thing. A child of that age with suicidal ideations and a plan is a LOT rarer. Something has happened/is happening in his life that is well, well outside of what would be called "societal norms" in this child's life. That said, not knowing any details beyond what you have given us here, I would not even think of positing what those might be. But 11 year old boys don't just grow a suicidal gland one day, out of the clear blue. Something in his life is a great stressor.

I don't know what mental health services there are in your area. Every area is different and every state has different criteria for enforced hospitalization for those who present a danger to themselves or others. Some are very pro-active and some are shockingly lax. Suffice to say, I personally think that the young man would do well with some time in hospital, where he could receive a full assessment by a team of doctors and psychologists, and then they could institute a course of care which would include intensive counseling and medications where appropriate.

I would suggest that your first stop, for your own sakes, is to call your local NAMI chapter and get clued in as far as what you can and cannot do in this situation. NAMI is a font of knowledge in situations like this.

With a little luck, the people at the hospital have started the ball rolling for this young man. I sure hope so.

[Beausoir]

32. Yes, there is nothing I can do. I just have to watch as a young child evaporates.

I do appreciate your insight.

But, there is nothing I can do.

Something is VERY fucked-up in this country.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

87. Not really.

It may look fucked up now, as you appropriately feel great concern for this young man, but a lot of things have to happen to trip the circuit breakers that lead him to care, in a situation like this.

A lot of laws have been put into place, good and appropriate laws, to stop people from being punitively put into institutions for trivial reasons. At one time, parents could institutionalize rebellious children. What they often got back were ruined, shattered husks. Now, assessment teams are in place and they are very serious about their tasks. Also, because of the woeful state of funding in the US, for mental health issues, creating linkages to appropriate services, such as hospitalization where appropriate, doctors, psychologists, medications and intensive outpatient case management, has become orders-of-magnitude harder. There is just not enough money and not enough slots at providers to go around. I know that our best organization for case management, service linkages and advocacy in this area, Easter Seals(They truly do God's Work, and they are saints) is generally completely filled up. More slots means more staff. More staff means more money. More money is the one thing that is nearly impossible to get.

Also, some states are very lax when it comes to people who are displaying suicidal thoughts, plans and actions. I know of one woman, in NC, who attempted suicide by hanging in her garage. She was found by her ex-husband, who held her up while her teenaged son cut the rope. She went into the hospital but signed herself out in 3 days. North Carolina, unlike NJ, does not have a law that mandates 30 days hospitalization after such an attempt, so the person can be put into course of care.

In the US, we have a terrible attitude about mental health: get sick from the nose down, you are almost imbued with a new sense of nobility, strength and courage, in the eyes of all. Get sick above the nose, and you are weak, somehow unclean and perhaps possessed by Satan. This is not hyperbole. I have seen it more times than I ever thought I could stomach. Mental Health consumers often have to deal with being imbued with a sense of shame for their condition from their families, friends and the community.

We are a terribly backward society when it comes to Mental Health.

[Kire]

111. this country is great

you are the one who said there is nothing you can do

[amandabeech]

74. My experiences with NAMI are that they are very good if the problem is schizophrenia or bi polar

disorder. Those illnesses are their specialty.

If the child is having emotional problems as a reaction to problems in the home, and cannot be classified as having a purely biologically based depression that arises from nowhere, then NAMI will not be of much help, unless things have changed a lot. The type of depression may people experience is just not their thing.

[soothsayer]

31. take him off of prozac

[mopinko]

42. you know that there was a huge spike in adolescent suicides

after people started thinking that prozac was the problem, don't you?

[Kire]

112. I didn't know that

could you tell me more about it?

[readmoreoften]

36. I once had to deal with a suicidal 6 year old.

I was 18 and she was a friend's little sister. Her mother was anti-choice and she was conceived from a stranger-rape. I caught her trying to kill herself by jumping out a window. Her older brother said she was always "trying to kill herself to get attention." I talked to the kid for a long while and when I asked her why she wanted to hurt herself she said that she wanted to die because everyone hated her and no one loved her and because she was 'stupid' and 'ugly' and 'dumb.' I mean, she was talking like a depressed 15 year old. She was six, about to turn seven. Beautiful, beautiful little girl too.

[JI7]

37. i don't understand what you mean by the parents not being available

if you mean you don't think they care then maybe contact child services ? i'm not sure if or what they could do but an option.

i don't understand why he was sent back to school the next day. he should probably be talking to a doctor.

[Blue Diadem]

55. Post 23 she says the parents are not in the picture but no mention of who is raising the child.

I wondered why she said the parents weren't available too. I didn't get a response but in reading the entire thread I found that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4512806&mesg_id=4512976

[mopinko]

38. don't assume anything. there may be no real world triggers for this kid.

mental illness is just that- a metabolic dysfunction. for all you know this child has parents that love him more than life, and have tried everything.
and hippa has nothing to do with you. it has to do with health care providers. period.

for a kid this young, my advice is, reach out to the parents. they are likely beside themselves. and that is the real lifeline that this kid has.

[Kire]

113. "no real world triggers"

isn't that too an assumption?

metabolic dysfunction? please explain, doctor

[Kali]

39. fuck the rules, make a stink

find him

[Hermes Daughter]

63. You have to do it. Only you.

Kali is right. If you don't break the rules, make a fuss and reach out to the child, he will be lost. The reason you can't let it go is because you've been called -- for some reason, I don't know. But you have to step in and fight. Just do it. "Yes you can!"

[Kire]

115. "Yes you can!"

"Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!" "Yes you can!"

[Kire]

114. If I had a fork and a glass

I would make a ringing sound in this virtual room...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Aside from prof help, he needs to be tested for allergies of all kinds....

... a naturopathic physician might help. And a therapist to examine his life and see if it's that. He needs to get a complete physical. Maybe he's got other things, hypothyroid. Who knows? It could be so many things! Could be abuse too but doesn't necessarily have to be.

[Tumbulu]

46. I am sorry to ask such a stupid question

but what are Hippa laws?

[mopinko]

49. laws that pertain to health care professionals. period.

they are laws pertaining to the privacy of medical records. they have absolutely nothing to do with gossip shared by middle school children and their parents. they impact this situation only to the extent that op wishes to peek into this kids medical records.

[Kire]

116. you say the words "no" and "nothing" a lot

do you realize that?

[OhioChick]

51. HIPAA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipaa

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

73. Laws involving medical information

I work in life insurance, and I deal with them everyday. There's only so much information I'm allowed to disclose to agents. Basically, if they didn't disclose it when they applied, I can't release it.

[mopinko]

48. gack

reading through this thread is making me nauseous. you people have no idea what mental illness is about.
you can take this fact to the bank, tho- the parent police, as evidenced in the idiot responses to this thread, will be of no help to this child.
unavailable- what does that mean? maybe his mother has cancer. maybe his father is dead. or maybe he suffers from a mental illness himself. maybe a whole lot of things. parents get overwhelmed. they fail. in spite of their deepest desires and best intentions, they fail.
take you judgmental crap, and pound it.
i tell you this place gives liberalism a bad name.

[Beausoir]

71. His parents are unable to parent. He lives with them but they are unable to be parents.

He is obviously endangered.

His parents did not care enough to show up 3 days ago and they did not show up today.

[Blue Diadem]

75. His parents never showed up? Who did the hospital release him to?

No one called child protective services over that?

[mopinko]

95. says who?

just where are you getting these facts? you have some sort of magic mirror to look at these parents?

[Kire]

119. says the grand inquisitor

For the secret of man's being is not only to live but to have something to live for. Without a stable conception of the object of life, man would not consent to go on living, and would rather destroy himself than remain on earth, though he had bread in abundance.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pol116/grand.htm

[woo me with science]

81. This whole country is steeped in a sick pop psychology

that assumes you can work backwards from mental distress to assume an abusive childhood or deficient parents.

Thank you for being a voice of reason in this thread.

[mopinko]

96. thank you.

some of these people watched one too many episodes of marcus welby or something.

[Kire]

117. someone needs to take her own advice

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4512806&mesg_id=4518549

[mopinko]

134. i think i have openly discussed my reasons for posting what i have posted.

i walked in this families shoes. i have a mentally ill child. i am posting here to take their pov.

[Kire]

147. you think you openly discussed it?

I don't.

You have a child. Is he or she okay right now? If not, what are you doing on this message board harassing all of these other people telling them how hopeless it all is?

[shrike]

152. Sometimes mom doesn't give a crap

Sorry to be so harsh, but I have personal experience in this matter.

I had suicidal thoughts at a very young age. Around nine or so was when they started. The first time I told my mom, she laughed nervously. If I ever brought it up again, she got very impatient. I learned quickly that I was on my own with this thing. The last time I ever spoke to her, she said, "Well, I guess you'd better go out and get yourself some help, then." I was 11 years old. Like I was supposed to go to the yellow pages, find myself a therapist and drive myself there.

My mother has serious problems of her own, obviously (both my parents did), and likely she was more focused on herself than me, hence my rant sometimes that she "didn't give a crap." I know strictly speaking that isn't entirely true.

People seem be in two separate camps on this: either the troubled child is a victim of bad parenting (not always the case) or all parents are desperately in love with their children and want the best for them, but sometimes things go wrong (not always the case, either.)

btw, I must sound very bitter about my mother, but I don't really think I am. I feel very little for her now that I am an adult, other than some basic concern that she is getting older and may need help.

[mopinko]

52. and the sad truth is- nothing is guaranteed to help this kid.

it may be the age of miracle and wonder, but mental illness remains a red-headed stepchild of our miraculous world. if he has been to the er twice, he is getting the best that is available where he is.
as i said upthread, don't assume the parents are villains. more likely, they are more heartbroken and bereft than op. support them, and you support the child. don't judge.

[Kire]

120. are you not judging

everyone in this thread?

[wtmusic]

53. If he is a friend of your son

I would have your son invite him over, and show some interest in his life...school, friends, that kind of thing.

After a few visits you may gain his confidence and get some background. It may be something he doesn't feel comfortable talking with his parents about, and just listening may take a big weight off.

If it's depression that's genetic the situation gets a lot thornier. But IMO there is always a way to get involved.

[GreenPartyVoter]

60. He sounds like he is way past this and needs professional intervention and therapy :^(

Once he is stable and not stuck at "going fetal", your suggestion would definitely be a good one.

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. The ER should have handed him off to Psych for evaluation and maybe even a hold

for Child services. If the hospital has a chaplain, that _might_ be a possibility, but provided it was all about listening and not at all about God. (Because for all you know this kid is being spiritually abused or tormented along with whatever else is going on, and the last thing he needs is to have religion shoved at him.)

I will pray for this poor sweetheart and send him some love vibes. I have a son just his age and it kills me to think of him feeling like this. :cry:

[Beausoir]

64. That is what happened. The ER handed him off.

I know the ER Nurses and they were kind and caring to this poor child.

Nursing is a VERY difficult job.

[GreenPartyVoter]

70. I don't think I could be a nurse. The suffering would break my heart. That and

I don't think I could be responsible for human lives. I just don't think I'm made of the right stuff to make snap decisions or to trust my judgement.

I am so very glad that he has good nurses. They make all the difference. I was just his age when I was put into the hospital for 6 weeks with ulcerative colitis. My parents were there a lot, but it was the nurses and my roommate who watched out for me all the rest of the time, especially when I was scared, or homesick, or in terrible pain.

Please let me know if you hear anything about how he is doing. I feel so worried and sad for him. :(

[Blue Diadem]

72. Are you saying he's been placed in the psych unit?

Did they know why he was sent back to school the first time? That's truly disturbing. If he's in the hospital, at least you know that he's safe for now.

I do think it's important that the children in the school be told to stop gossiping about him. Maybe you can take that up with the principal and they can have a meeting about it.

Hopefully with the hospital being involved the boy will get treatment and they will be able to find out if there is abuse going on.

[mopinko]

92. these nurses should be fired.

there is no excuse for them blabbing as much as you have divulged here. it is absolutely against the law for them to be telling you this stuff. that is what hipaa really means. sounds like these nurses need a refresher course.

[Kire]

121. "blabbing as much as you have divulged here"

what specifically did they blab?

[mopinko]

136. they should not be discussing any patient with anyone.

it is against the law. period.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kire]

146. call out the dogs, then

throw them to the lions

[Dappleganger]

65. Sounds like he needs a Guardian Ad Litem

to oversee his needs, to ensure he is getting the right kind of care from the school, the hospital and doctors, and his parents. If his parents aren't 'available', then Child Protective Services needs to become involved, and a GAL representative appointed for his own safety.

An 11 yr. old with thoughts of suicide is in dire need of intervention, FAST.

[mopinko]

97. having a mentally ill child is not grounds for destroying a family.

sorry, but parental rights are not negated by a child suffering depression.

[Kire]

122. why are you sorry?

you just have the best interests of everyone involved here, right?

[mopinko]

133. i am sorry that people here do not get it that this family

is a family, and that the second hand gossip of nurses in the er who should not be talking, is not sufficient to allow the government to come in and dissolve it.

[Kire]

145. so are you going to explain it to them?

or are you just going to sit and be unhappy about it?

[stillcool]

67. He needs to go.....

anywhere but back home. 11 is not that young in some people's lives and it sounds like he's had more than enough of some of what life offers. It's a lonely place when you're more afraid of living than dying. I have to say adopting one child, let alone five, has got to be the most generous gift a soul can give.

[stillcool]

69. whoops!

[young_at_heart]

76. Could a Guardian Ad Litem program work in this case?

It's a powerful advocate for abused children, but I believe each state has different criteria.

[davidinalameda]

78. why the hell isn't he in a kids' psych ward

this kid needs to be under supervision

not the best answer but at least he'd be safe

[Kire]

123. maybe he is

because of hipaa, we'll never know

[Gormy Cuss]

82. I have no idea how to help this child.

I'd use my best instincts to find ways to show him that there are adults who love and care for him but I have no illusion that it would be enough. Either it is, or I fail.

[Sirveri]

83. What worked for me was elimination of major stressors and meds.

Basically something is driving him to it, and there might be a biological component as well requiring medication.

If he's in a pysch ward they'll get to the issue eventually.

[Kire]

125. why does the words "might be" always appear

with the "biological component" or the "chemical imbalance" words?

[Ichingcarpenter]

84. HIPAA laws do not prevent you from calling authorities

You don't need to get close to him, you need to contact authorities.

Don't tell me you don't know the numerous private and public channels.

[Beausoir]

86. Well, if he's laying in the ER, accompanied by 2 cops, I'm assuming that qualifies as

"authorities".

The authorities are already involved.

[mopinko]

91. in most places a police report is mandatory for a suicide attempt.

pro forma.

[Kire]

126. you know what I told mopinko about assuming above in this thread

you make an ass out of u and me

[anigbrowl]

85. You can't. So just let the hospital deal with it, they know what to do.

Frankly, and speaking from some personal expereince here, I think he might be better off with someone in a white coat than some random person whose motives he can't fathom and doesn't know whether they're legit or not, even if that means waiting a whole day.

[Kire]

127. "random person"?

would that be the OP, or the kids' parents?

[LWolf]

88. I don't think there is anything that YOU can do.

I hope those who CAN do something will.

[Kire]

128. Why don't you think so?

What's with the defeatist attitude?

[LWolf]

131. Not defeatist; just realistic.

I think you have to have access to the child to offer personal help.

Other than arranging social events with your own children, which might be a little comfort but won't address the underlying source of the issue, you have clearly stated that you don't have that access.

[Kire]

144. it takes a village..

...to abandon a child too

what have I clearly stated? I am not the op. Are you sure you're replying to the right person?

thanks for replying

Erik

[LWolf]

150. You're right.

I'm replying to the OP, who wants, personally, to do something.

There are laws regulating who has access to minors. That's reality, and it shapes what can, and cannot, be done.

If you are licensed for foster parenting, or willing to become licensed, you can offer to take in this boy, and oversee his daily care and make sure he gets the mental health services he deserves.

What, exactly, can a village outside of those legally authorized to intervene do?

Give me your ideas.

[Kire]

153. the village can find out who is legally authorized to intervene

and test them out, see if they are the type of person who is qualified to be that person

[LWolf]

154. Legally authorized:

Law enforcement, and social services.

Who else? I guarantee you that law enforcement and social services are already aware of the problem.

To really help this child, you need to address the source of his problems. That definitely involves some intensive mental health services, and possibly parenting education, or removing him from his home, if that is the environment triggering him.

Someone could offer them self up to social services as a potential foster parent. I've seen that work; a colleague did that with a family of siblings in crisis 3 years ago. You could, if you had access to the parents or foster parents, offer mentoring, counseling (if you are licensed to do so,) tutoring, home-schooling support, transportation to a different school, before and after school supervision and constructive activities, making sure he isn't left unsupervised...if he isn't placed in a live-in treatment center.

[Kire]

155. who else?

the names of the people on the case, that is what I was asking for

[LWolf]

156. How would DUers know the names of people

on the case? Unless you think the OP knows those names?

How does knowing the individual names of parents, law enforcement, school admins, and social services allow you to help the child?

[happychatter]

94. you adopted five kids "out of poverty?"

do you believe poverty is a consequence of poor morals?

do you believe low income people should have less parental rights than the well to do, or middle class, because of that moral deficiency?

did you actually adopt five children or are you a Foster home, profiting from CPS interventions?

I'd love to hear this... perhaps not here... perhaps not ever from you

but ya'all DO fascinate me

if you think a deeply troubled child of ten years, can be "saved" with hugs and warm soup... well, I don't think I can help you

[Kire]

129. huh?

I understand about half of what you are saying, some of it is good stuff, but not the other half

please elaborate

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Midlodemocrat]

151. Wow. That is about the ugliest opinion I've ever seen her.

You have no idea what Beausoir has done and your supposition is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[MrSlayer]

118. I'd ask him to tell me who has been hurting him and tell him I'd protect him.

My family has always championed abused and neglected children. When I was a kid, any of my friends who looked too skinny or beat up always got food or hugs as needed from my mom. Or my dad would take us all to a ballgame or take us and play football. And it's passed on, my house is always full of kids. One of my daughter's friends, who's mom is a junkie and dad is in jail, practically lives at my house.

One way or the other, whomever was harming this child would pay.

[Leftist Agitator]

124. It's none of your goddamned business!

I sugggest that you act accordingly, and stay the fuck out of the situation all together.

[elleng]

130. For our info, a 'related' story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4519864

[mopinko]

138. oh, please. related how? np

[elleng]

140. mop,

related insofar as it describes how one jurisdiction handled a 'distressed child' matter.

[Midlodemocrat]

149. He needs professional help. Here's what I would do.

Go to the school and ask to speak with the principal. Tell her/him what you know and tell her/him that this child is suffering from suicidal ideation. They HAVE to do something. They are mandatory reporters. HIPAA doesn't apply here at all until the child is admitted to the hospital.

Your intentions are good, but a child doesn't develop suicidal ideations because he needs a kind,loving, strong mom. He needs help and fast before he makes this a reality. The kind loving and strong mom part can come later.

I've put many, many children his age in the hospital because they were a danger to themselves or others. PM me if you would like to speak further.

And, bless you for caring.

[mdmc]

157. get some services involved

like child protective services...

not sure there is help on the way... but prayers.. all the best.