Gas! Anyone else pissed as hell!?

[Bonobo]

WTF happened to gas prices? It can't be due to supply/demand, refinery capacity or ANY OF THAT BULLSHIT that they told us each time the wind blew hard in the Gulf of Mexico.

So how was that NOT price-fixing and collusion? What happened to all our money?

Does anyone else feel that someone picked their pockets for the last year over the price of gas?

Does anyone have an explanation?

Is anyone asking for one?

Anyone here at DU understand how gas station prices get fixed? Cause I sure don't.

We have a gas station here in my area that closed down a year ago or so. The 4.09 cent sign is still hanging there, just a couple of blocks from signs that say 1.89 now.

What about Peak Oil? What about lack of refineries? WTF!?

[Aviation Pro]

1. I paid $1.68.9 cents/gal to fill my tank yesterday and I fully expect to

...to pay around $1.50 in two weeks when I fill it up again.

[taterguy]

2. Gas stations charge what people are willing to pay

And since I've been pissed at oil companies over 20 years I set up my life so I rarely have to buy the stuff.

[Lex]

19. Gas stations make little money off gas.

They have to pay the same prices we do, or nearly, for the gas they buy for their stations.

[jtrockville]

26. OIL companies are in business to make a profit...

just like every other business. It is their fiduciary duty to maximize profits. Gotta love capitalism, eh?

[medeak]

32. 2 friends have gas stations.. only profit is off the snacks they sell n/t

[cabluedem]

52. You are right. Most stations only make 10 or 12 cents profit per gallon. nt

[Lugnut]

39. Who was willing?

Nobody asked me if I'd allow them to slam me with $4 a gallon gas.

[taterguy]

45. I rarely get consulted about price increases

Although it would be nice if the folks that made the stuff I consume asked me first before they raised the price.

[tbyg52]

60. Gas *stations* are not the villains

They're like movie theatres - don't make the nut on tickets, have to eke it out with concessions.

It's the oil companies (who are shedding company-owned stations, by the way) and the speculators that drove the price up.

All the proof I need that the $4 gas was due to speculation and lack of regulation is to look at the price now.

[MercutioATC]

3. Ummm...crude prices have dropped 60%...

Gas here in Cleveland got to about $4.10. It's now about $1.70.

That's roughly a 60% drop.


If the raw materials price drops by 60% and the final product price drops 60%, where's the price-fixing??

[LittleApple81]

5. in the pricing of the raw material. nt

[MercutioATC]

13. Global demand is down. When demand decreases, so does price.

Yes, there's a speculation factor too, but the fact is that the global economy is in such a state that people are using fewer petroleum products.

That leads to decreased prices.

[mike_c]

9. in the original raw materials price rise....

The air is out of the bubble now, but the question is "who inflated it to begin with and how did they get away with it?"

[MercutioATC]

They "got away with it" because oil is a commodity.

It's not traded solely on its value, but what people think its value will be in the future.

As long as demand was outstripping supply, prices went up. When demand fell, so did prices.

[stopbush]

49. Won't some people who bet on oil futures be taking a big hit in the near future?

Seems anyone who bet on oil being over $75 a barrel has got to be ready to kill themselves about now.

[snappyturtle]

4. I agree with you. Maybe the oil companies made huge profits to

help out the auto industry in its time of need! :sarcasm:

[SammyWinstonJack]

HA! Yeah, the bloated for mega profit oil companies are rushing to help out their

partners in crime auto industry buds. :evilgrin:

[snappyturtle]

43. Whenever I think of automobiles and oil at the same time, I assume

that relationship helped kill the electric car.

[FreakinDJ]

6. How quickly we Americans forget

And not 1 speculator has been thrown in jail

[Coyote_Bandit]

27. Anybody who understands

risk management knows that derivatives can be used to mitigate and limit risk exposure. Speculators are necessary to buy the other side of the contract and create the market. I would suggest that there was as much or more fault to be found in the risk managers. I would also question whether the derivative instruments were valued properly.

Just a thought.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. Deflation of the Dollar. nt

[Hissyspit]

11. Bingo. n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. I read the Stock Market thread every day.

:proudofmyselfsmilie:

:D

[hfojvt]

14. except that would make oil prices go up for us

the dollar has probably gained value too since July

edit: bingo 1 Euro bought 1.55 dollars in July only buys 1.25 today

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=EUR&to=USD&submit=Convert

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. It's counter-intuitive, I know.

I can't claim to understand it completely.. but this may help..
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/11/20/can-the-fed-fight-deflation-how/print/

[amandabeech]

50. It was just a few months ago that it took $1.57 to buy one Euro. Now it's $1.26.

The dollar deflated, and now its reinflated.

That absolutely has to do with the current price.

Along with speculation and demand drop off because of the very high price and because of the world-wide economic slowdown.

[BootinUp]

8. A huge bubble was created in commodities

trading when the housing bubble started to deflate. Stock market futures are more dependent on what investors think and how much they have to invest than the realities on main street.

[hfojvt]

10. gas stations set prices off of what they pay for refined oil

which, in turn, has some connection to the price of crude oil, which is now 1/3 of what it was in July
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-11-21-voa45.cfm

They blame the downturn in that article, but it would be interesting to see if demand is really down by that much or how much of the crude oil price was driven by speculators.

[dysfunctional press]

12. gas wasn't $4.09 a year or so ago...maybe that's why they went out of business..?

:shrug:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

15. It's all part of the plan...

squeezing as much capital out of every pocketbook on their way to destroying the whole infrastructure of the economy.

Justice is but a concept discussed in theoretical scenarios.

[opihimoimoi]

17. Oil dudes went too far...fucked up the ECON....now they wanna fix w lower prices

too late...Bushonomics pushed us over the High Cliff....situation ...FUBAR...

How to FIX?? No one seems to know....all the so called experts are flummoxed....both sides of aisle and across the World...

We are supposed to be submitting a comprehensive plan to alliviate misery suffering fear. Instead, we get shit from Bush....the Bush Trickle Down shit he got from Reagan did not work...at all....

Made it worse than eve before....

Still....no solutions in sight....Paulson spent 700 Billion to fix and now admits..."Opps"

Big 3 comes to town with tin cup...they will get something...will it be enough?,,....don't think so...

The answers seem to be elusive because of scale....the Obama dudes not scaling up enough...need to reach Big Picture Level...so far nada,

Woe onto ourselves who believe Bull Shit....

[Atman]

18. Trying to kill of investments in alt fuels.

It's working, too. Already Pickens (no more "I hate Pickens" threads, please! It's not germane to the point) has said it has become very difficult to find backers for his windmill project, because if gas is so cheap, what's the point.

Now THAT's the short-sighted America we've come to know and love!

.

[sandnsea]

20. Speculation Bubbles

I do not know when people are going to figure out that all these bubbles are nothing but the "investor class" pushing money into one area or another - and making life miserable for the rest of us. That is ALL it is. Every other supply/demand explanation is PURE BULLSHIT.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

31. Exactly right, sandnsea.

:thumbsup:

[jpak]

53. You are exactly and totally correct.

Speculators hosed us - and how.

US petroleum demand destruction began late 2007 and increased even as gas and diesel prices climbed.

It was not a "supply and demand" thingy.

[dmosh42]

21. Sen. Dorgan(D-ND) explained it during the price surge about two months ago...

His explanation was that big money was being pumped through the hedge funds from all over the world. They were never to receive a drop of oil, but just bid it up on the futures markets for speculation. Of course the Republicans denied this to protect their billionaire buddies. But once the credit crunch came, these funds had to unload to get cash positions, so not to be caught short. Basically, right now, I bet the bidding is only from the true users of oil, like airlines and other 'transportation' companies.

[SoCalDem]

41. Speculators should have to actually "take possession" at some point

of whatever they are bidding up and down... That would end it pretty fast :evilgrin:

[OregonBlue]

22. I would add that the oil companies do not want high prices now. As long as they are high people will

be pushing for alternative energy. When they come down, the emergency passes and it will be harder to get alternative energy legislation through.

I'm betting that prices will stay low. It is not in the oil lobbies interests to have them go up now that the Dems are in charge and are going to make a real push for alternative solutions.

[jellen]

23. I also wonder about gas prices.

I also wonder about gas prices.I have no idea how they can go all over the place. Who would you trust to explain it to us, Bush or OPEC ? Everyone can't be stupid about this, and who is smart enough to fool us? Do you get the feeling that gas lasts longer now? When it was $4.00 it seemed to go like water?

[gtar100]

24. Has all the markings of a huge scam

Uncontrolled greed from every sector of the oil industry. They were like a mob of thieves running through our economy. A lot of people got rich, a few got filthy rich, while we, the working class, had to cut back on food, heating, travel, health care, and a lot of other necessities just for them to get rich.

Madness. Cannibalism is alive and well.

[goforit]

28. $1.57 /gallon!!!! We were robbed for 5 years in broad daylight!!! With heavy talks

of GREENING on a global scale.......I think the oil industry just put nail in their own coffin.

Congradulations AMERICA!!! You just told the Car industry to phuck off and produce energy efficient/clean efficient/cost efficient cars.
You told Congress to phuck off by saying NO BAIL OUT......The US car industry was just fired through Chapter 11 accelerated!!!

Now the OIL industry is phucked!!!!

HATS OFF TO AMERICA!!!! WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT NO MORE!!!!

[Tashca]

29. Off shore drilling?

I believe the Dem's capitulated on offshore drilling about September 30th. They let the 26 year ban go off. If I remember right American's were ready to do anything to reduce there gas cost and usage.....even at risk of letting the ban go off.....then fix it later or some such nonsense..
Maybe it's just a coincidence....the timing and all...

[Glorfindel]

30. Well, didn't Exxon/Mobil, etc.

make record profits last year? There's your explanation, plus all the wretched excess going on in Dubai and the other filthy rich oil states.

[jasmeel]

33. I think the gas companies see that people are backing off of their

product and are trying to entice us back. It's like a drug pusher- if you give them some free or cheap they get addicted and then you can charge them whatever you want. It's sick.

[lostnotforgotten]

34. Global Demand Destruction - Demand Dips, Price Declines - That Said Peak Oil Is Still Facing Us

eom

[elocs]

35. Crude oil price peaked at $147 a barrel in July and is now $50.

That is certainly not the entire story, but it does help to explain the drop in the price of gas. It's certainly not as interesting as conspiracy theories. Remember how gas prices were dropping to help McCain along with the prediction that they would begin to rise again after the election?

[Fireweed247]

36. It was all a scam thanks to the Phil Gramm and the Enron Loophole

They knew that once they lowered the prices, people would just be so grateful they would stop asking questions...

[upi402]

37. there is NO opposition party to corporatist fascist elites

I know it sounds tinfoil hattish, but that's what's up. The lunatics are in charge of the asylum.

[Warpy]

38. It'll go back up next spring

and Obama will be blamed for it.

[Karenina]

40. Spring? January 21st!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[walldude]

42. I'm not going to bitch

I have to drive across country in a few weeks and am praying prices stay this low. We couldn't afford to fly so...

[truedelphi]

44. The price fixing is coming from the upper 1%

And I don't mean the oil companies.

The rug has been pulled out from under them, and they are hurting now.

Of course, so is everyone that started playing with oil commodities as well.

The full meaning of this will be that gold will skyrocket by the end of the year and will probably hit about 1200 at least by Dec 31st.

Eventually the US Dollar will crash out and gold will be $ 2000 an ounce.

But maybe somewhere there is something that can be done.

I remember that in the mid seventies, Norway was going to go broke,and then they discovered oil.

Maybe we have a gold mine somewhere that will bail us out of the mess we are in.

Believe nothing, entertain possibilities.

[wildflowergardener]

46. election

Maybe it is the cynical view - but I figured it was due to the election - the gas prices always went down before big elections and this time was no exception. At least it always has here in Missouri, a swing state. I can't say why they are staying down now that it's over, unless someone is scared of the democrats cracking down on them now that they will be in power.

Meg

[graywarrior]

47. As we all knew, we have been lied to over and over and over and we accpeted it.

They do not dare go up on the prices now with the economy the way it is. They MUST keep us driving as at all costs even if it means lowering the prices.

[bullwinkle428]

48. Drill, baby, drill...you betcha!!

:evilgrin:

[jpak]

51. Thank Sarah Palin and "Drill Baby Drill" for falling gas prices

:evilgrin:

And - yes - it was all due to speculators.

Hedge funds made off with everyone's "stimulus" checks last summer...

[Uncle Joe]

54. I believe it's because, as the American People have now been thoroughly drilled, while

the oil corporations owned the White House, prices are being reduced back in line so as to curtail any alternative energy development momentum.

The oil corporations are hoping the American People's memory will be short as after the 1970s crisis, and a brief turn to environmentally sound, national security enhancing renewable energy, fuel prices dropped and alternative energy to a large extent was abandoned, thus the oil addiction continued.

[populistdriven]

55. its all because of mccains psychology - the markets anticipated a 1% increase in supply in 8 years

and crashed

:shrug:

[Azooz]

56. Max Keiser - oil

Max Keiser has done more than most to explain it, this is from alJazeera and he has his own youtube channel to:

People & Power - Peaked - 06 Jan 08 - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrjX4Nf_wGM

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sYLFqg2e3I

[codjh9]

57. I don't know WTF is going on either - paid $169.9 a while ago in S. Austin... I think Peak Oil is

still happening, fo-sho, but for whatever reason, we temporarily have cheap(er) gas... I don't expect it to stay this way for a long period of time.

[salguine]

58. The reason gas prices have plummeted so much is because people

are finally talking about pursuing alternatives. The oil companies are hearing this loud and clear, and I think they actually think people are serious about it this time. So they're using their old fall-back plan—they've noticed that every time in the past, people only talk about doing something about the oil problem when gas prices get crazy. As soon as the prices drop again, people magically forget all about fuel efficiency and alternative fuels and whatnot, and slip back into their comas. I think the oil companies see the end of the line, and dropping prices like they are is the equivalent of throwing sandbags out of the sinking balloon. They're trying to squeeze the last dollar out of the Old Petroleum Order.

[Flabbergasted]

59. The speculators don't have any reasons to raise prices with a moderate entering office.

There are other reasons. nt

[lib2DaBone]

61. It's NEVER about supply/demand. It's about George Bush and the Oil Companies.

Operation Iraq Liberation = O I L

[Sirveri]

62. Demand Destruction, pure and simple.

As the oil demand approaches supply, the price increases. In 2007 for all four quarters the world wide consumption actually outstripped supply, which caused massive price spiking. We finally dipped below the supply ceiling 2Q 2008. This was mainly due to the world economy slowing, thus reducing need for oil. If the economy reheats, we will rapidly punch back through the supply ceiling and you can expect fuel prices to sky rocket to probably at least 5$/gal before they cause another economic disruption. This is the plateau period in a Peak Oil theory. Large market fluctuations. God help us if Saudi Arabias Ghawar field peaks out now, then you'll get to see the world crushed by the supply ceiling.

[Blue_In_AK]

63. I'm pissed as hell because gas is still $2.70 in Anchorage,

when last year at this time we were about the same as the Lower 48 average. Something strange is going on up here, and nobody can figure out what it is. http://www.adn.com/front/story/597977.html

[proud patriot]

64. we all have been Enroned

:mad:

[Edweird]

65. NAH. I like low prices. I WAS pissed when jerkoffs tried to tell me it was 'market forces I couldn't

comprehend' when it was plainly obvious to me that it was a scam. Not to mention the 'peak oil' militancy by some well known blowhards that were SO SURE gas prices would NEVER come back down. Hell, * even telegraphed this was going to happen. He was harping about gas prices being 'artificially low' right after he got sworn in. It's not like there was a White House filled with oil co. execs or anything....

[CoffeeCat]

66. Gas was $1.57 here today...

I don't understand why.

...but I suspect these prices won't last forever.

[JBear]

67. They are still picking my pocket...

Filled up with Diesel today $2.95. Regular was $1.93 - that is a 50% premium for diesel.

:wtf: