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Why have 3 "anonymous sources" done hit pieces against Howard Dean when he has already stepped down?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 12:55 PM
Original message
Why have 3 "anonymous sources" done hit pieces against Howard Dean when he has already stepped down?
That's the very worst kind of thing to counter. There is no name, no way to find out who is doing it. The media using the anonymous sources are so-called reputable media. It is the kind of propaganda that must be countered, but there is no way to do it and not be accused of being partisan.

Ask yourself why they would be doing this? He has already stepped down as chair, he has only been on TV a couple of times since the election. So why are they finding it necessary? I really never thought about whether he would be in the cabinet. But why the anonymous hit pieces? Why try to discredit someone who already stepped down from their position, and is not saying much at all about anything at all?

I have a theory. These "anonymous sources" would find it easier to run things without the annoying liberals, bloggers, netroots, grassroots...butting in. So it is my theory they are putting out these anonymous hit pieces on Dean for a reason that is not just him, but us.

At least in 2003 and 2004 the sources did not bother to be anonymous. They were right out in the open calling him too liberal and calling his supporters "fringe activists."

SNIP.."But the great myth of the current cycle is the misguided notion that the hopes and dreams of activists represent the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Real Democrats are real people, not activist elites. The mission of the Democratic Party, as Bill Clinton pledged in 1992, is to provide "real answers to the real problems of real people." Real Democrats who champion the mainstream values, national pride, and economic aspirations of middle-class and working people are the real soul of the Democratic Party, not activists and interest groups with narrow agendas.

SNIP.."What activists like Dean call the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party is an aberration: the McGovern-Mondale wing, defined principally by weakness abroad and elitist, interest-group liberalism at home. That's the wing that lost 49 states in two elections, and transformed Democrats from a strong national party into a much weaker regional one..."


We knew who they were. They were out in the open.

Now we can only suspect. Since his name has not crossed the lips of any Democratic leader since the election, one sort of suspects who is sending out the propaganda. But no way to prove it.

First came the New York Times anonymous sources.

New Talking Point: It will take a few years to see if Howard Dean gets credit for anything.

Please note how the "anonymous source" brought up the FL and MI primaries...just as I predicted they would do.

Mr. Dean sent resources into all these states. But one defining characteristic of the Obama campaign was the extent to which it insisted on keeping control over everything, often to the irritation of state Democratic leaders. Mr. Obama’s aides, while taking pains to praise Mr. Dean’s philosophical approach in trying to make the party more competitive in more states, said that the Obama campaign relied almost completely on its own staff, money and organization in making incursions into Republican states.

This is more than a simple who-should-get-the-credit post-election argument. Mr. Dean is very much thinking about his legacy after a campaign in which he was criticized for failing to mediate potentially divisive disputes among the candidates, for long-lasting fights over what to do about the disputed Florida and Michigan primaries (the party refused to recognize the votes because both states broke party rules and held their contests in January) and for his party’s difficulty in keeping pace with the Republicans in raising funds.

Should his 50-state strategy be vindicated over the next few election cycles, the problems of 2008 will certainly be forgotten. For Mr. Dean, it’s simply too soon to call the question.


Not too soon to call. He has inspired the party.

Never will it be mentioned that Howard Dean far outraised Terry McAuliffe. They are trying to rewrite his legacy as chair before it even has a chance to be written.

Dean outraised McAuliffe

The issue now is money -- not so much Dean's ability to raise it but his propensity to spend it. From Jan. 1, 2001, when Terence R. McAuliffe took over the committee, through March 31, 2004, the DNC raised approximately $127 million in funds that could be spent directly on campaign activities. Between Jan. 1, 2005, and March 2008, the DNC raised $190 million, considerably more.


Then right after Dean stepped down as chairman, there came the Politico hit piece. Only anonymous sources.

Dean out at HHS

Now either the source was inside enough to know, or they knew it would hurt Dean's chances if the words were said. Dean said as much about the article on the blogger conference call.

But the chief attributes President-elect Barack Obama is seeking in his HHS secretary will be an ability to work with members of Congress and shepherd reform legislation through the House and Senate.

That job description has turned out to be a particularly ill-suited one for Dean, given his partisan background and lack of congressional experience, sources inside and outside the transition offices say. Dean never served in Congress and spent his Washington career trying to thin the ranks of congressional Republicans that the Obama White House will need to court during the expected debate on health care reform.


Now for the Wall Street Journal hit piece yesterday. Yes, it is painful. It is made even more painful because all of the three are just as directed at the grassroots as they are Dean.

Hit piece and anonymous sources from WSJ

Mr. Dean certainly had a liberal fan club pushing for him. A medical doctor by training, he burst onto the presidential scene in 2004 on the strength of his "universal health care" plan as governor of Vermont. The militant Netroots crowd -- which he was among the first Democrats to cultivate -- has remained loyal and has been howling for his appointment. Some left-wing Democrats also felt he deserved the job as payment for the electoral victories he oversaw as head of the DNC.

Back in reality, however, Mr. Obama was having none of it. Plenty of top Democrats were fine with letting Mr. Dean run the DNC.
His attack-dog style and Internet savvy were well suited to a job that was focused on winning elections. But his personal aggressiveness couldn't be more at odds with Mr. Obama's cool demeanor. And putting Mr. Dean in control of one of Mr. Obama's most cherished initiatives (health care) would've made John McCain's Sarah Palin pick look safe.


I can almost hear in that hit piece the tones of some of the centrist "Democrats" in 2003. But no proof. How cowardly to be anonymous.

The bloggers and Democratic forums are all treading lightly about being critical about anything at all.

There is not anyone speaking out against these anonymous hit pieces on the man who has been working hard for our party since he became chairman in 2005.

So I will speak out on it. They are rewriting his legacy as the bloggers remain silent and are playing nice to get along.

We should not let them rewrite his legacy without our speaking up at least online. I don't know who they are, but they have insider knowledge. They have anger toward Dean in spite of all he has done for the party.

On the blogger conference call Dean asked them not to mention his name in regard to any particular seat, and he mentioned the Politico hit piece. Maybe he really does want the blogosphere to butt out and not fight back anymore. Maybe he really does. Trouble is it is equally insulting to us...the fringe, liberal, lefty, netroots, nutroots.

And I am not going to remain silent.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Howard made this all Possible. HE had the vision
When the DLC tried to derail him.

We owe him.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. The DLC just didn't like being proven WRONG
and now they're campaigning to get the party chair back so that they can undo everything he did because even though they've been proven wrong, they think if they do the wrong things long enough, it will turn out right.

That's the short explanation.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
103. The Oligarchy wants control back
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
3.  Like the fast and furious hitpieces on Kerry after he was on top of SoS list. TeamClinton has its
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:05 PM by blm
own ring of mediawhores and their two CONSTANT TARGETS for some time now have been Kerry and Dean.

And we're supposed to believe it's just another coincidence.....as usual.

Carville, Begala, Davis, Ford, Rahm......
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Rahm et al will never forgive Howard for being right AND BELOVED
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. hey....Rahm rebuilt party infrastructure so Dems could get their votes counted in 2006 and 2008....
didn't he? After all, the media keeps telling us Dems that Rahm's responsible for the wins. Guess Rahm was TOO BUSY to do it in 2000 and 2002 and 2004 and that's why those elections were stolen.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. After Dean taught him how to do it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #48
87. I was being sarcastic...Rahm and McAuliffe didn't do SHIT - Dean's DNC did exactly
Edited on Sun Nov-23-08 10:33 AM by blm
what was needed - The Clinton era and McAuliffe run DNC collapsed party infrastructure state by state before 2000, and extended the collapse by 2002 and 2004.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #87
100. They are already closing down local offices and dismantling Dean's Machine...
!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. You got it sfexpat2000
McAuliffe and Emmanuel cannot forgive Dean, a relative amateur for his great success.

I was a Kerry supporter and joined Democracy for America, the heir to Dean's organization, after Kerry lost. I did not have to change my point of view to move from Kerry to Dean. We all believe in the same middle class values. In fact, I find Dean to be truer to the middle class values than Kerry. As for McAuliffe and Emmanuel, they are not just jealous, they are spotlight-seekers. They spell trouble for Obama. That is especially true of Rahm Emmanuel who likes to dominate center stage.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
91. and don't forget inspiring folks like to become activists! How many DLC activists have you met?
:mad:
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. My thoughts exactly.
It should be interesting to see who replaces Dean. You can bet it will be someone very Clinton-friendly.
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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Why? Obama is leader of the party
My expectation and hope is it will be someone to his liking.
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
74. We'll see, won't we? n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I noticed those. Yes, we are supposed to pretend it is all coincidence.
.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. Corporatists can't use the Republicans anymore - so beware Democrats!
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 03:10 PM by kenny blankenship
The Republicans are now a rural rump party of flat earther, foetus fondling, snake handlers. They cannot accomplish anything for corporate power, so corporate power is looking to use their money to take over the Democratic Party. And there are parts of the Democratic Party that want to be took over. Killing off Howard Dean is the sacrifice they must make to get their hands on all that money. Democracy has to be made safe for globalism.

(oops this was intended as a reply to the OP.)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. K Street already moving to Democrats
It is a real danger. The party in power will be sought out by corporatists.

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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Yep.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. The Corporatists haven't put all of their eggs in one basket.
The Clintons are Liberal-Corporatists. That was the purpose of the DLC. Why do you think Bill Clinton gave us NAFTA, deregulation (which has caused the financial collapse) and so much other pro-corporate legislation?

But people are catching on. That's why so many said no thanks to a Clinton third term.

Pragmatism appears to be the new word for Corporatism.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. "Pragmatism appears to be the new word for Corporatism." Good point.
Yep, noticing a lot of that lately.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. GM/Ford/Chrysler....LOL!!! When 90% of Americans bucked Congress on bailout.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
71. Corporate already has a big hand in Democratic politics. Can you spell DLC? nm
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here is another hit piece:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. That was an ugly one and truly geared to hurting the grassroots and bloggers.
It was awful
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. The New Republic
Tossing everyone overboard to preserve the sanctity of perfidious shitweasel Lieberman.

This is my surprised face. NOT.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. I love his declaration, "You don't matter." Arrogant asshole.
The Jane Hamsher quote is dead on: "No matter what Joe Lieberman does, the people who are protecting him hate you much more than they hate him."

And on and on this fuckwad goes, his disdain and contempt drenching every condescending paragraph -- and he calls US the "haters". Yeah, it's such poor form get angry over being repeatedly insulted.

The powerful are going to fight with everything they've got to make sure that they get to hang on to their power. People who want tear down the heirarchy are soooooooo annoying.

sw
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. Jane Hamsher has been even angrier than I have this week.
She told Dean in the phone conference that the bloggers had just been told to go screw themselves...then she really got mad.

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. James Carville with material assistance from Mary Matalin.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. I have no doubt Howard Dean's political strategy played a large part
in helping to turn 48 states bluer than they were.

It was a team effort, and Oligarch owned corporate rags hate the thought of a united people, and Dean represented above all else unison. This scares them because it makes manipulating the American People along emotional lines infinitely more difficult.

The same reason the corporate media slandered and libeled Al Gore for the better part of two years prior to the selection of 2000, by championing the Internet, he represented the will of the people. Howard Dean likewise represented or tried to represent all the people regardless of your region. This is "liberal" to the authoritarian corporate owned media because it represents a threat to long held corporate supremacy.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

Kicked and recommended.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Something you may want to know about someone from Vermont...
They don't care about legacy. They care about doing things right, or NOT doing them at all. Conservative about land and privacy, liberal in caring for the people in your community.. and really just trying to be fair.

Simplicity is grand sometimes.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. I like those characteristics a lot.
:hi:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Yeah, well I care, because it's important that we get someone in who will continue his policies.(nt)
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
81. That's what we are for.. Do you think the election was the end? its only the beginning.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. You won't like my answer.
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:35 PM by LWolf
Because the revolution is over. The Democratic Party is now the purple party, and the reins are firmly held by the DLC.

I haven't been silent. Not even for a day.

When hordes of DUers, and Democrats, flocked to Obama, because he "isn't dlc" like HRC, I repeatedly pointed out that, official membership or not, his policy papers fit the dlc BETTER than HRC. That nominating him because of expectations that he would represent the non-centrist population was nonsensical.

I wasn't surprised when his first appointment was R.E., and when all of the short lists for other appointments turned out to be dlc or dlc-friendly people.

We've just, with the overwhelming election of a candidate that embraces DLC policy, given the DLC the prize.

All of that "bringing people together?" That doesn't include the left wing of the Democratic Party or the nation, both of whom Obama worked to distance himself from quite early. Remember the open admiration of Reagan, for "changing the trajectory," moving us away from "the excesses of the 60s and 70s?"

We are bringing centrists from the 2 major parties together, unifying them to further marginalize the rest of us.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I don't like your answer, but I agree.
And that's a shame, isn't it?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. It is a shame,
and I'm sorry I had to answer that way.

:hug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I think we all knew it, just did not want to say it.
:shrug:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think that's true for many.
I think I knew it, and said it, in the opening days of the '08 primary season. I saw it coming, and railed against it every step of the way. Futile. But then, I'm stubborn that way. :(
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. I, too, agree, Lwolf.
I voted for Obama "without illusions," as Prof. Howard Zinn put it.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
126. I also realized he was a centerist....
I pointed this out on this board during the primaries and was called some very vile names. I did not see much difference between him and HRC and voted for my candidate in the primaries. I supported and campaigned for Obama later.
I find it very sad that if you question or voice an opinion regarding our PE you are branded as a "concern troll" or something more vile.
What a very vocal group on this board does not seem to grasp is that our involvement with our government did not end on November 4th.
Not if we really want to see the change that Obama spoke about and campaigned on.

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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. I agree, LWolf.
I always thought Obama was a centrist, albeit an inspiring individual. That's why he was my last choice among the candidates. I haven't been at all surprised by the cabinet and adviser picks so far. I guess it's the best we can expect though, given how far right the country went under **. He certainly is better than the alternative - McCain/Palin.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. I have to agree. nt
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. I don't like one part of your answer
They're not bringing centrists. I like to call them "conservatives". Because that's what they are.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. And so is Obama.
That was our choice - a sane Republican vs. a crazy Republican.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
84. I don't disagree with that.
It's the same reframing that makes ME the fringe, loony left, well beyond "progressive," or even "liberal," when I've considered myself a moderate liberal for the 3+ decades of my adult life.

Perhaps it's time to call things what they are, instead of allowing constant orwellian spin to dictate political rhetoric.

I've been flamed repeatedly at DU for referring to Obama as "center-right." My posts have a greater chance of being read, and responded to by at least a few thinking people if I leave the "right" out of the equation. Perhaps I'll just put a heavier-duty flame suit on and start calling him a conservative.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
60. I'll be honest and state that I supported him, worked for him,
drove people to the polls to vote for him to just stop the bleeding. The Constitutional abuses, the torture as accepted behavior, to improve our image in the world. The really big items on my list about justice in the world and in the country - economic or otherwise - aren't gonna happen. Sad, but true.

I think that I'll only work for local candidates that I REALLY know in the future and let the rest go to others.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
85. I think many people are in your shoes.
I didn't donate or work for his campaign. I focused on my state senate race; it was close, but we managed to evict Gordon Smith from the senate, and replace him with Jeff Merkley. A productive use of my time and resources.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
92. I don't like a different part of your answer.
Because I think you're a bit too wrapped up in the electoral politics, beltway navel-gazing blather, and euphemedia celebrity obsession of the moment. As is the OP. The revolution -- such as it is -- isn't about any of that. And on its own terms is far from "over."

Sure it might have been better to have a "Dean II" candidacy this time around (some of us tried and failed). But even Obamania had it "revolutionary" aspects -- like the huge donor base and side-stepping the top-down party minions. To the extent that these become "lessons," we're the winners not them.

And while the "reins" may currently seem to be "firmly held by the DLC," it is only with white-knuckle, grasping terror. The fact that "hordes...flocked" to the "isn't dlc" is the reality here. (Though I don't disagree that they flocked to a lesser evil.)

Had this election been "about policy," I might be forced to agree with you. But it was "about bushcheney." Had it been made more "about bushcheney" with impeachment, the Dems would have more than 60 Senate seats, could have told Lieberman to mumble off, and perhaps even been able to ignore the blue dogs (not likely, but possible).

Still, the forest is a good bit larger than the trees in your post allows for. And Obama himself might even surprise us, as soon as his administration begins to get "scandal ridden." Remember that he's only had a few years (as opposed to decades) of indoctrination in the DC World of Make Believe.

---
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #92
107. I would say this:
as long as the people who voted Obama into office believe that he IS the revolution, it's over. He's a conservative democrat who will not usher in any grand changes in the way things work.

If the revolution springs from the people, then it's only over if the people go home, trusting their new "leaders" to "fix" everything.

If the revolution is depending on the Democratic Party to succeed, then it's over, and the party, and those depending on it, lost.

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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
97. im sorry but either way we were screwed
to act like HRC or Obama were either less dlc than the other is absurd...
as with their policies, so with their world view...
they are alot alike
there are only minor differences.

but youre right, i think liberals have fallen victim to the talk of 'change'.
we all saw change as something more drastic, when in reality it was just change from the republicans. dont get me wrong, any change is better than what weve got now...so, you can only be happy as a progressive that another republican didnt win...
but i think liberals havent had a candidate in this , definitely not since the beginning of the year.


the democratic party doesnt have to cater to our needs, they know theyve got us in a hard place... thats the real problem.

we need to make noise. its too important not to. others need to learn to see it as not being vicious or hateful and not as an attack on the party.. its just wanting to continue change. a change further into a better direction and way of life.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #97
108. either way
between HRC and Obama? You're right. and now we've got them both in the new administration.

That's why I lost any hope for positive change last January.

It drove me crazy to hear the nomination of Obama justified by claiming that he is somehow less "dlc" than HRC. Despite that he's not an official member.

I guess the only other thing to fight about between the two was race and gender. The race/gender wars did not reflect well on Democrats, or the Democratic Party.

It's too bad there weren't any candidates left, after 2 primaries and 2 caucuses, that could offer some substantive difference, and choice, to the primary race.

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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
119. Your answer is the truth, LWolf
As I've said before, one needn't be a card carrying DLC member to support that vile organization. Nancy Pelosi is a classic example. When Rahm Emanuel was appointed, the direction this administration will take became pretty clear.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
124. There's one silver lining
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 02:51 AM by mvd
If the far right gets marginalized, then maybe we can start bringing the country leftward. Rightests like Reagan and Bush moved the perceived political center way to the right. Obama knows that ignoring progressives completely wouldn't be smart - and President-Elect Obama is a smart guy. I think you'll see some progressive voices as Labor secretary and Interior secretary.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. "...at odds with Mr. Obama's cool demeanor" LOL
And I suppose Rahm's meatlocker chill is a perfect match.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. The representatives of The One True Party are frightened and trying to preempt
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:30 PM by greyhound1966
the reigning in their master's power. They are the 5th column within the Democratic Party and must be exposed and expelled from any position from which they can dictate policy.

They are so close to final victory they can taste it.


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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. It has Clintonland written all over it. They can't stand that Dean rebuilt the party they demolished
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's Childish and Self-Defeating to Be Jealous of Dean and Try to Sabotage Him
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 02:15 PM by Demeter
He makes a much better ally than enemy.

And yes, Rahm, Clinton and their loyalists are the only ones who have any reason to feel jealous. Unless it were Lieberman's doing. But somehow I think Joe has more critical tasks to do, like survive.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. It's also payback for the primary. They are such a venomous, spiteful group. They behave like a
group of nasty 12 year old girls.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. I agree. It's disgusting...
Let's hope that Obama doesn't reward such
behavior.

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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's obvious to me what's happening.
This is not an assault on Dean, it is an assault on liberalism. It is part of the coordinated "Center Right Country" campaign which is being waged by conservatives and corporate Democrats in every media outlet in America. They are trying to prevent actual change by convincing the people that they actually voted for the status quo. They are trying to pressure the new Obama administration into being cautious and conservative rather than bold and progressive. Dean is only the most high-profile symbol of the unashamed liberal Democrat.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. It's Not An Assault On Liberalism
It's an assault on Democracy. It's consolidating power for the inside players.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
69. You are SO right! It's the worst revisionism I've ever seen,
although I'm not sure if "revisionism" is the word I'm looking for.

Re It is part of the coordinated "Center Right Country" campaign which is being waged by conservatives and corporate Democrats in every media outlet in America. They are trying to prevent actual change by convincing the people that they actually voted for the status quo.

They are trying to convince Americans, and progressives especially, that Obama's victory (which is also Howard Dean's victory) doesn't "really" mean what we think it means, and what in fact it DOES mean: That the status quo is totally unacceptable, because it doesn't work and has been proven not to work.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. I count 3 posts or counter posts in this thread so far....
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 02:55 PM by fla nocount
written by Rahm-a Rahm-a Ding-Dongers and not one reply. This is refreshing and the only way to marginalize them.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's all bullshit, bullshit, bullshit...
And, I'm glad you're here pulling this all together for us, mad.

Dean will get his due from the proper channels or their karma will be screwed with.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. While I agree with the OP wholeheartedly,
I believe that while Obama is assembling a cabinet that can rule from the center, his presidency will be more like FDR's than Clinton's, and fulfill liberal and progressive objectives in a way that Clinton's so often fell short of.

We know that Obama has a way of working with different groups, while not being coopted into abandoning his own goals. I hope and believe that Obama will use the DLC instead of being used by them.

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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I think your theory is possible,
but unlikely. I hope you are right, but occam's razor says that Obama will govern just like his appointments thus far would suggest.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
66. if...
If Obama is an exceptional politician, and that could well prove to be true, and if we are hoping that the administration will approximate that of FDR rather than that of Clinton, then the most important ingredient for making that happen would be strong pressure from the Left. That is what enabled FDR to move to the Left, and a good politician welcomes that pressure. During the 30's there was a strong Left, a strong Labor movement. You cannot start in the center, anymore than you start bargaining with your weakest position.

Politicians cannot be good representatives if we give them nothing to represent, and hero worship and rubber stamp "yes men" behavior is not anything that can be represented.

Yet me have some here discouraging us from developing any pressure from the Left, or even talking about it, while saying "don't get me wrong I agree with you BUT..."

I am convinced that the calls for "moderation" and "ruling from the center" are smokescreen, and that there are people who want the party to move to the right but will not come out and say that. They are pulling out all of the stops, and the Left is as much under attack here now as it ever is from the right wingers.
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Gadzooks1 Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yes, Obama won the race, and
while he may claim to have "run his own race," he ran and won that race breathing Dean's air. Without Dean this could not have happened, so anybody who puts Dean down does so out of unhappiness at the democratic win...Obama isn't the only democrat who won. Republicans, many incumbent, lost big. What amazes me most about the American political process is that when the republicans win, every body else loses. When the democrats win, everybody wins. Dean didn't just do this for the democrats, he did it for everybody. How can the republicans be such haters?
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. Howard Dean?? You mean that elitist liberal crazy man?
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 05:04 PM by RufusTFirefly
Over the course of four days in 2004, cable TV ran the clip of the "Dean scream" an estimated 633 times. 633 times!

When it shifts into high gear, the propaganda machine can be truly terrifying and virtually invincible.


The Wall Street journal excerpt is particularly appalling.


Mr. Dean certainly had a liberal fan club pushing for him. A medical doctor by training, he burst onto the presidential scene in 2004 on the strength of his "universal health care" plan as governor of Vermont. The militant Netroots crowd -- which he was among the first Democrats to cultivate -- has remained loyal and has been howling for his appointment. Some left-wing Democrats also felt he deserved the job as payment for the electoral victories he oversaw as head of the DNC.

Back in reality, however, Mr. Obama was having none of it. Plenty of top Democrats were fine with letting Mr. Dean run the DNC. His attack-dog style and Internet savvy were well suited to a job that was focused on winning elections. But his personal aggressiveness couldn't be more at odds with Mr. Obama's cool demeanor. And putting Mr. Dean in control of one of Mr. Obama's most cherished initiatives (health care) would've made John McCain's Sarah Palin pick look safe.


This is really an amazing demonstration of propaganda.

In just a few sentences, Dean supporters are made to seem both trivial like a bunch of naive kids ("liberal fan club") and threatening like an angry mob ("militant Netroots crowd"). Instead of requesting, lobbying, or even demanding a Dean appointment, these supporters ("left-wing Democrats") are described as "howling" for it.

Dean himself is both ridiculed and smeared. His health care proposal is put in quotations in order to minimize it. It's bitterly ironic that Dean gets a guilt-by-association treatment when his name is linked to the queen of those smears, Sarah Palin. Meanwhile, Dean and his supporters are dismissed as not living in "reality", and Dean himself is painted with four-year-old slurs, which describe his "personal aggressiveness" and compare him to an attack dog. The latter two can sometimes be considered compliments, but it's obviously not the case this time, as Dean's personality is contrasted with Obama's "cool demeanor."




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. It's the worst kind of propaganda...anonymous and false.
I see someone just below tried to turn it into something else...and I will ignore the pathetic nature of their reply.

This is how the conservative wing of the Democratic party functions now. I love Obama, and I hope he will not cave in to this kind of corrupt name-calling.
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
68. Sloppy heavy-handed propaganda
should be shot down with an iron fly-swatter, I prefer Dean & didn't believe the obvious CRAP the scrooge media spewed; I also watched in growing horror as they went psycho over Al Gore-so obvious! Very fishy! Ugly, the dlc is back in business, unfortunately.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. So, what? You want the 28th amendment to guarantee no one can criticize Howard Dean?
:banghead:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. Serial anonymous hit pieces on anyone should raise red flags. n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R, Thanks again, MF.
The problem with Dean's vision of the Democratic Party is that The People have a voice.
The DLC's version is strictly authoritarian.

A poster above inadvertently acknowledged this when he said that an Obama administration "will rule from the center."

There are some people who are comfortable with an authoritarian government.
They cloak themselves in a mantle called "Centrism"....
Whatever Daddy says is good enough for me.
I don't have to think or STAND for anything...
Its EASY...


I don't know what the solution is....but it certainly ISN'T Sitting Down and Shutting Up as so many DUers are demanding. Fuck them, and fuck the "Centrists", timid defenders of the Status Quo.

Since 2002, I haven't donated to the DCCC/DSCC.
I supported the DNC while Dean was its chairman, but I'm going to wait and see before any more of my money goes that way....My donations go to individual Liberal candidates (pathetically few in today's Democratic Party).

Keep up the good work.
The easy part was getting "A Democrat" elected.
The hard part will be making our voices heard.
(Thats even hard on DU these days. Where did all the conservatives come from?)

The irony is spectacular.
Groups of posters constantly demanding Lock-Step, Blind Faith Obedience, and NO QUESTIONS on a "Progressive/Liberal" site???

Fuck Them...I'm not shutting up.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone











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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #43
77. Yes, Dean tried to open the party up to us. Now they have it closing up again.
When Obama chose Rahm, he knew the message it sent.

I think of all the money we donated to the DNC, DFA, and to candidates...it all seems for nothing now.

They are shutting out the man who inspired so many of us back into politics before Obama was on the scene.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. There you go again, Mad, pointing out inconvenient truths. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. It's so frustrating and unfair and undeserved.
But it sends a darker message to us. That no one is speaking out for the grassroots now, and we will have to speak for ourselves.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Agreed, it's my party too. Glad to have all the
former Republicans that find themselves without a sane party and all the DLC types as well, but the Democratic party includes Progressives too. You are one of the people that motivated me to get off my bottom this past election. For that I am thankful, keep it up.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
47. Yep the DLC (Immanuel/Carville/Clinton) ......
Watch it though.........The American people (republicans and librals joined together) are rising and won't put up
with those Extreme DLC Moderates anymore!!!
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
54. the insiders
The debate about right versus left is too often based on misrepresentations, and misused and misunderstood to advance different agendas.

What the wealthy and powerful fear most is not an ideology, but rather broader participation and involvement by the public. Dr. King and Bobbie did this in a previous era, and today the success of the Democratic party should be credited to Dean and Obama.

In some ways, broad public participation is what the political Left is really all about.

Whether they are liberal or conservative, right or left, the insiders will always try to suppress broader political participation since that is a threat to their power.
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happychatter Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
104. yup - no text
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
56. Disgusting. K & R nt
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
61. The DLC neocons are EXACTLY like the...
Republican neocons.

In tactics, in policy, in form.

Both sides can go fuck themselves.


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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. thanks MF....
....since the DLC and corporatists have become the new repugs, the Good Doctor needs to join us in developing a strategy to challenge the corporatists in the Party and in public....

....the Good Doctor also knows how to use the netroots....non-progressive ideas, policies and programs promoted by the Obama administration should be strongly questioned....non-progressive formulae and solutions that fail, deserve a quick and powerful condemnation from us....

....this is all disgusting and disheartening, but we'll see them at the polls in less than 2 years....the problems the world confronts, problems caused by corporatists, are huge and many....the chances of corporatists solving our problems are slim to none....

....the DLC and corporatists are like dog shit on your shoes....you can scrub them down good, let them dry and even polish them, but in the end, they'll still smell like dog shit....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
72. Love it!! "Without having a Base to feed, don't we now have changeless change?"
You are so right on with that statement right under the picture of Rahm. :evilgrin:

Rahm: We have no base.

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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
65. FUCK the DLC!!
When does this malignant cancer get cut the fuck out of this party? :grr:
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. I worked and voted for Obama because he was our only chance...
at deliverance from the NeoCon/NewDem gangsters.

I see now that he wasn't really an alternative.

Oh well... we are watching and waiting.

The "BlueDogs and the NewDems" will not have the
'pukes for cover any more. With majorities in both
houses and the executive branch under their control,
there will be no excuses for their corporate
hand-jobs.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. Good point...
Re The "BlueDogs and the NewDems" will not have the
'pukes for cover any more. With majorities in both
houses and the executive branch under their control,
there will be no excuses for their corporate
hand-jobs.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #67
78. Yet his appointments smell VERY centrist (to right of center)
to me...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #67
88. I saw him as the best chance we had, too. We have to hope now that SOME advisors will step up
and be the light we need.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
73. It feels like they are thumbing their noses at the people who helped them win.
It is like an in your face insult.

The fact that there have been 3 with no one responding back...is very telling.

It's kind of a sad feeling.

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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #73
82. One reality here
is that the Obama campaign pretty much ignored the liberal blogosphere. Great NPR show on that the other day. Nevertheless Obama will move the country in the right direction on many fronts. How many and how much remains to be seen.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #82
89. Probably so. But when you push aside so many enthusiastic people
there will be consequences down the road.

Rahm said there is no base in the party. Rahm is Obama's right hand man now.

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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
75. I missed this while traveling - Why did Dean step down, and what's he going to do now?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. He stepped down because it's Obama's party now.
And he will choose the chair. No one knows what he will do, including him....it appears he is being shut out of the national level of the party very obviously.

It angers me they are doing this.

They are already taking for granted the ones that brung them to the dance.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
79. Howard does not see himself as a hero, but we can
There are those who will disagree, but I think it's clear that without Howard's
appearance on the political scene, Obama would never have dared to try for the
presidency. A candidacy that got its jump start from a lot of inspiration and
little else used to be a most improbable undertaking. Even JFK would have never
gotten off the ground without his father's influence and family clout. Dean and
Obama certainly had none of that to get started. The closest thing I can think of
in recent history is Eugene McCarthy in 1968, and though he inspired, he went nowhere,
although he is often said to be the spark that inspired Bobby Kennedy to run. Bobby
inspired as much as anyone, but, like his brother, he certainly did not suddenly
appear out of nowhere.

There was an article somewhere today about how inspiring leaders get assassinated,
and mentioned JFK, Bobby and King. Howard has certainly been "assassinated" often
enough in the media, and is now, for reasons we can only fathom, being shut out
of the new government. I've known him for almost ten years and he has been uncharacteristically
quiet since the election. If he asks me to keep thing to myself, I do, but all he has
told me since the election was that he doesn't know what's next for him. Period.
To call this unusual would be an understatement, to put it mildly.

Howard is capable, smart, and has a lot of energy and great ideas. He knows how to
run things. He is opinionated, but listens when addressed by people other than fools,
and admits when he is wrong. He also happens to be very much on our side. If the Obama
team tosses him aside now with an attitude equivalent to "thanks for all your help, now
get lost," it will be like shooting a loyal horse that carried you to safety because
someone has now offered you a car. Cars can break down, you know.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
106. Dean needs to confer with DFA, PDA and MoveOn.
Then he needs to let us know the truth.

Every day.

We will put pressure on our representatives
to do the right thing for the people.

Please let Howard Dean know that reason and
commons sense don't just fade away with the
election of a democrat.

Transparency in government is worth fighting
for, no matter WHO is at the helm.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #106
116. I'm sure he knows, but you're right, and I will pass it on to him.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
80. Probably the same "anonymous sources" who brought down John Edwards
even when he wasn't running.
The Progressives of the party must be brought to bear back to the center.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
83. Palin is extremely upset with "anonymous accusations"
I sense a bit of retribution from the Palin camp
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
86. Rec. So many excellent points have been made here that I just want to remind everyone
that the key is to NOT GIVE UP in the face of the corporatist influence on Obama's administration. He has told us repeatedly that this is not about him, it's about US. We have to make our presence felt in ways we have never done before.

Someone else on another thread pointed out that choosing a lot of insiders/former Clinton administration types is not a bad strategic move by the Prez-elect in that these folks do not need to be brought up to speed on how the government works, plus they have established relationships with movers and shakers of both parties. The critical issue is whether our new President can and will bend them to the people's agenda or the corporate agenda. This will be a struggle of epic proportions. We are the ones who must tip the scales.

So, my question is: Do we do this through the Democratic party at a grassroots level? Or do we link up with MoveOn.org? Or some other group?

Now is the time to get into gear. We don't have a moment to lose.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
90. I'm pissed he wasn't chosen for HHS position. I'm tired of appeasing to the centrist
underachievers who have a helping hand in many of the problems facing this country right now!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
112. Me, too.
Centrist underachievers...good term.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
93. Looks like it worked this time...
The coup Carville and Rahm attempted in 2006....looks like it worked in 2008.

It is a coup that shuts many of us out now...but that's just politics, I guess.

All it takes is great media access, and really great power. They have it now.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
94. I Noticed it Right AFter the ELection
like clock-work... one article after the other trashing Dean and progressive/liberals.... next thing I noticed was all those so-called centrists spouting their usual garbage, the likes of which I expect from so-called conservatives in the Republican Party. I knew we had a small yet powerful elite in this political party which was working against us... I saw it in the last eight years in regards to Bush.

At least with Republicans you can expect it.... but from these corporate rat bastards who claim to be Democrats and oh so knowledgable about everything yet so wrong about everything. well it's just unbelievable how transparent they are.

I posted about them being like vultures swooping in after the kill to take over.... I think I was right.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Yes, it was like the day after it started.
I guess in the back of my mind I expected it.

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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
96. Howard Dean will always be a hero to me.
He's the kind of person who wants to solve problems, even if it means others getting the credit.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
98. K&R -- I really admire Dean and the DNC so very much.
It was so frustrating, year after year, knowing there were a lot more Democrats out there and seeing the DLC just target the clearly blue states, watching the damn state map on election night with the few little blue states looking so pathetic all by themselves.

I hope we can somehow ensure that his legacy continues and we keep reaching out to more and more of our fellow citizens who share our values.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
99. Howard Dean!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
101. The really amazing thing is that he is no liberal.
Never claimed to be one. And oddly enough his supporters in large part were moderates.

It's amazing how we have let one who led us so well be vilified.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. There is a big difference between "liberals" and "progressives".
Progressives are not afraid to tell the truth.

Progressives value common sense over dogma.

Progressives don't believe in starting a pre-emptive war
for the spoils.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
102. I know its a dayum shame
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
109. THank you, for the last two years you've been the best thing on DU
No matter what change we vote for it doesn't come.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
110. Clinton people trying to go after everyone who had the nerve to try and get rid of them.
You know they tried everything to get rid of Dean. And, after Dean's hard work and reshaping of the DNC, we have Obama to thank for their resurgence.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Remember What Robert Reich said in 2006?
He as much as admitted the Clintons wanted him out.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/652

"What can possibly account for the post-election victory party pummeling of Howard Dean by inside-the-beltway Democrats? Prominent Democratic consultants (James Carville, Stan Greenberg) go on the record (“you can quote me”) with complaints barely two weeks from a Democratic sweep. Leading congressional Democrats (Rahm Emmanuel) vent their anger vociferously (“on background”). Why? Dems now control both Houses and have twenty-eight governorships. Dean ought to be congratulated. So what’s the underlying agenda here? Three theories:

1. The only way a Dem gets on television after such a sweet victory isn’t by criticizing Republicans – it’s by criticizing fellow Dems. Stirring up clear waters grabs attention. Attention draws crowds. Crowds create power. Power is the name of the game in Washington, especially when formal control of Congress changes hands.

2. Dean’s strategy of putting money into state party infrastructure takes money out of the pockets of Washington insiders – away form Democratic consultants and key congressional party activists. That makes insiders angry.

3. Dean is an independent DNC chair, not under the sway of the Clintons. Unlike Ron Brown, who guided the DNC toward a Clinton victory in 1992, Dean doesn’t play the usual power games. Hence, the Clintons would like him out, and the sooner the better. Carville, Greenberg, and Emmanuel, among others, are doing their bidding."

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ThirdWorldCitizen Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
113. I'm Confused...
I thought I found an environment where I could visit and read from the well-informed about the politics and possibilities of being a real Democrat. I lived and worked in Wash. DC for many years. I'm no one, but I happened to work for several major law firms which represented the White House and even the Senate (e.g., Keating Five and Pres. Clinton in his time of extreme need). I now live in Florida. I view this state as a "plantation" which continues to thrive in year 2008. Obviously, we don't run in the same circles.

I immersed myself in the election as a first-time voter and became someone obsessed with keeping up with what was happening. I became a human sponge for all the opinions and discussions here. Before 11/04/08, there seemed so much support and goodwill. Now two and a half weeks later, I'm having the worst anxiety attacks reading about how offended you are by the choices made by the Pres.-elect. How unhappy you are that someone you supported seems to be left out or is not being considered for a cabinet post.

Just like you, I can find whatever it is I'm looking for in anyone, (good or bad). I choose to keep hope alive and look for the change that was promised. After all, he's only a man and not so perfect.
Instead of perusing this site looking for positives which can connect me to other Democrats (it's not happening anymore!!), I will try doing something meaningful in this community of Hillsborough County, FL. I hope I can reach one person and make a change in some way. I know that what I do will only affect those who are not so grand as to expect that their choice person is not installed in the new administration's cabinet. I also hope that I whatever assist I can lend will be done selflessly with no expectations.

I thank you for your post...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #113
114. Then you did not get what I meant. I am sorry you didn't.
I think if you read it again, you will see I refer to a whole group of people.

SO..I am giving you anxiety attacks? You think I don't approve of Obama's choices? I don't think you got what I wrote at all.

I don't see Florida as "thriving", though, so we differ on that.

I post good and bad stuff, happy and sad stuff. Just like more others here.

You can pick and choose.

I will keep on speaking out that the party insiders absolutely, totally refused to acknowledge a person who jumpstarted this party in 2004 and 2005.

Welcome to DU. I write varied stuff.

In case you don't know, the party shunned us here because we defended Dean's actions during the primaries.

I hear your county chairman's lawsuit is still on...be nice to see how many more years he keeps filing it.

Good night.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
115. This is why I wish he'd stay.
Someone has to crush those shitheads.
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
117. He pissed off the wrong Obama butt-boy...
...although it's hard to imagine Rahm Emanuel as anybody's butt-boy, he is obviously tied at the hip with the President-Elect and he didn't like Howard not cow-towing to the Clintonistas, the DLC and the 'smart guys' that insisted that his, Dean's, strategy to 'stand up and make a fight of it...everywhere there's an America' wouldn't work. Well now we, and even they, know that it did, but Emanuel, and the Clinton's, have a long memory when it comes to people they want to 'get even with'. Except Bushes of course, because you see they've got a lot of money, know a lot of people that have more money and can see to it that Bill gets to get his hands on some of that money.

The saddest thing about Obama's victory is that Howard Dean has had to become a 'sacrificial lamb' to the Clintons, et. al. By the way, you need to see the Emanual bit that they didn't air on SNL and you'll see what I mean.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
118. Kick. You are right. These "hit" pieces are disgusting.
"For Mr. Dean, it’s simply too soon to call the question."
Only for those who are too blind to see..


"But his personal aggressiveness couldn't be more at odds with Mr. Obama's cool demeanor."
Two words.."RAHM EMANUEL"

"Dean never served in Congress and spent his Washington career trying to thin the ranks of congressional Republicans that the Obama White House will need to court during the expected debate on health care reform."
:silly: :wtf: Now that the ranks of the Congressional Repukes has been thinned, I would think it will be EASIER to pass health care reform!!


This garbage is hardly worth responding to, except for the fact that it is not true, and it is diminishing the wonderful work of a man who had NO SMALL PART in helping to create the change we all wanted and needed. He saw how to do it before anyone else did.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
120. I would guess this is less about Dean
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 12:19 AM by RandomThoughts
and more a flexing of muscle. Sort of a group saying see what we can do. Since if 'media' puts out the same message, they can smear, or highlight anything out of perspective. This could be an attempt to warn people in power. Congress people, or anyone that speaks up, however their ability to target people is limited. When millions stand up, they lose all their sudo power.

Look at some of the other articles that have popped up, Blair under surveillance? This seems to be a warning that everyone is watchable.

And if you don't believe in cowering in fear, all of us need to stop listening to pieces out of perspective used to smear.

Gossip, especially when anonymous, or distorted by meme or engineered trends, is used as one of the mechanism to hold control and power over people.

(edit)This could also be done to just split up people and keep them fighting so they don't see whats going on.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. Yes, it is about much more than one man.
He is being smeared because he represents a threat to the ones inside the DC bubble. Why? Because he gave away some power out to the states and to the people instead of the smoke-filled rooms.

I do disagree with you that we should just ignore such stuff as this. We need to notice it, and bring it out in the open in the sunshine.

I think that by being open about what is going on....we have more chance of fighting it.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. I agree
And as you said, I also don't think commenting on something is the same as accepting it or going along with it. I would say ignore the gossipy part, but then point out the possible intent behind it.

With the caveat of pointing it out restraining from entering the same frey of gossipy methods. Tough line to walk. Pointing something out without presuming original location of start of stories. Thinking on a variety of possibilities, knowing that all or none may be correct.

It seems most of the time people that do promote things like this have multiple layers. First is to smear, second is to get someone else to take blame. Sort of like someone making a flame war in a thread only using media and politics.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #122
123. My motive is to make it clear that there are strong divides....
that can not go unnoticed.

Those who have followed the party's strategy the last four years know that Dean energized the party and kept a lot of us on board who might otherwise have left.

There is a faction that does not want the annoyance of the grassroots. Several of that faction have been placed close to Obama. It has made some wonder.

I am not smearing by pointing out smears done by others whose motives truly are suspect.

My goal is a party in which Democrats are not afraid to be Democrats and are not fearful of their party's grassroots and netroots.

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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #123
125. No intent to include you as doing same thing.
Not saying you are doing that, just saying we all do that.

Just saying we all do it when we muse on possibilities. I agree that it is a possibility that the old guard is positioning. It is also possible that some media is slanting the story to show old guard posturing for other reasons.

I also think it is possible that this is to split the old guard from the newer factions. I have not yet decided this is all old guard posturing, but agree it might be.

I agree grassroots and netroots are important. I don't think Mr. Obama would spend his life in grassroots politics just to ignore them later. So I think this may be media hyped a bit. But it will take a while to see how it all shakes out.
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