Death by virtual cam.

[The Backlash Cometh]

I'm just wondering, the internet has a certain emotional detachment and I wonder if this is one instance where etiquette rules for the net might be in order:

Father 'appalled' by virtual audience to son's webcam suicide, calls for Internet regulation


MIAMI (AP) _ The father of a college student whose suicide was broadcast live over a webcam said Saturday he was appalled by the virtual audience that egged on his son and called for tougher regulation of Internet sites.

Abraham Biggs Sr. said those who watched and the Web site operators share some blame in his 19-year-old son's death.

"I think they are all equally wrong," he said. "It's a person's life that we're talking about. And as a human being, you don't watch someone in trouble and sit back and just watch."

Police found Abraham Biggs Jr. dead in his father's bed Wednesday, 12 hours after he first declared on the Web site for bodybuilders that he planned to take his own life. He took a fatal drug overdose in front of an Internet audience. Although some viewers contacted the Web site to notify police, authorities did not reach his house in time.

Biggs, who has said he was at work during the episode, said he had not known about his son's online presence.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-webcam-suicide,0,7799243.story

[Berry Cool]

1. As horrified as I am by the idea that all those people could watch an online suicide and do nothing,

I'm equally horrfied by the idea that the father's reaction to this happening to his son is that THE INTERNET NEEDS BETTER POLICING.

If his son was so depressed, why did he not have a single clue? And why did he have no clue about his son's online presence?

How could he have been such a detached father that he had no idea about either of these things?

And now that it's too late, he thinks the solution to preventing this in the future is regulation of the Internet?

...There are just no words.

[Berry Cool]

3. I've just read the article and I'm even more appalled.

The father wishes he was there to help his son since nobody else did.

What that seems to imply...he wishes he'd been there to serve as the LAST line of defense for his son, because others, anonymous others online, did not serve as the FIRST line of defense.

Others failed his son, so he wishes he could have stepped in.

OK, I know I'm going Keith Olbermann here, but: Sir, you were his FATHER. No one expects you to watch him 24 hours a day. But why did you have no idea he was suicidal? He was on medication for bipolar disorder; why didn't that give you a clue? Why did you have no idea of his Internet activities? Why are you angry now that a bunch of STRANGERS didn't step in and save YOUR CHILD from himself? Why do you want some other authorities somewhere to keep this from happening to other people's kids?

"Rather than get help, he was ignored." I'll say. And from what it sounds like, it started very close to home.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. This is a very difficult age.

Any child psychologist will tell you that a child starts to get emotionally emancipated from the parent at age 16. There really is a period where you have to let go and hope you can be welcomed back periodically to make sure they're okay, or try to find another way to keep tabs of their progress without letting them know you're watching, or pray that someone will treat your child if they were in trouble, the way you would treat their child. Nineteen is just so terribly young. If he had been 23 or more, I might see your point of view. By that time, there should have been more interaction with the child even if they were estranged.

[qwlauren35]

15. About Bipolar Disorder....

I feel very lucky that I can control my suicidal "episodes", but I wouldn't expect my parents to know how to handle them. There were years when they happened every month. Luckily, it's only a few times a year now. My mom is amazed I've stayed alive this long. I finally learned that she couldn't handle my regular "cries for help". So, I learned to "go fetal" until the feeling goes away. But when it lingers, control is difficult.

I remember a therapist told me about a man who called her so that she would hear the gun go off when he blew his brains out. What could she really do? (I'm sure she tried to talk him out of it.)

The Internet is no different than the people who see a man about to jump from a building, who egg him on, just for the thrill and excitement of it. The Internet has not changed human beings. Just how we communicate.

I beg to differ on a parent being able to stop a child from committing suicide, short of putting him or her in a straight jacket until the "episode" passes. I think you have to be in those shoes to understand.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I think you're right that there are things we'll never understand.

First, hang in there. I can't say I've ever had the feeling overwhelm me to the point of wanting to do anything about it, just more like, not caring what happened next and that was due to hormones and illness. Now that I hit menopause, oddly, I'm probably more grounded than I ever was.

But, here's what I wanted to post: The scariest thing I experienced was in a writing class when a young, very pretty girl wrote about her suicide attempt and how she was Baker Acted. It wasn't her experience that frightened me, but, how she said that she was angry that someone interfered and stopped her from finishing what she knew she would try to do again. Then, the writing professor, in all seriousness, said, that if he knew she was going to commit suicide, he wouldn't interfere, and somebody else said they wouldn't either.

I felt very old and out of place. Without realizing it, I was becoming a pressure-cooker. A few comments later, we were talking about something else and the two that said they would let her die started giving her advice about something else, unrelated. And I finally lost it and shouted, "Why are you going to listen to them? They're going to let you die. It doesn't sound like people who care about your well-being."

I got a "B" for the class in a class which was a sure "A." He didn't even open and read my final manuscript because I had included an envelope with self-addressed stamp and never got it back. Son of a bitch even told us that nothing is copyrighted.

[jeff30997]

2. Yeah,that's those evil Internets that are responsible.

Before that it was Ozzy Osbourne's fault,video-games,movies,TV,books etc.:eyes:

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Bodybuilders?

A great many of them (not all, fortunately) are wingnuts who despise the weak.

It's philosophical for most of them -- Ayn Rand, misread Nietzsche, Leo Strauss, Oswald Spengler. Epictetus with a steroid-induced erection.

Memes and natural selection as their guiding moral principle. Alpha-this and alpha-that. Chapter-and-verse quotations from The Darwin Awards.

Ibsen heroes on creatine.

Sparta Lite.

There is no doubt in my mind why so many of these precision-engineered titans urged the lad on.

--p!

[cwydro]

5. Generalize much?

[Dogmudgeon]

7. Cliché much?

I'm guessing you're a bodybuilder with a tender ego.

You might want to actually read the post. The exceptions are noted rather strongly. Be one.

--p!

[cwydro]

14. I'm a woman over 45 who is far from being a bodybuilder,

but nice try.

I am a runner though; do runners have any special traits I should know about?

[MineralMan]

6. An incredibly sad story...

but attaching blame to others isn't going to make the kid alive again. Some people commit suicide, and for a number of reasons.

Just as people will yell "Jump" when someone is standing at the top of a building, while others will summon police, people reacted online to this poor soul's last act.

Just as it is shameful to say "Jump" to a person ready to make a final leap, it is shameful that some goaded the suicide victim.

Should his father have been more aware? No doubt, but suicidal people are often not recognized, even by those closest to them.

It was a tragedy, as are most suicides. Blame won't reverse it.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. Attach Blame? No. Attack Groupthink? Yes.

As I wrote in my bodybuilder-culture screed above, there are group philosophies that can become incredibly destructive. And I'll say it again -- individualistic cruelty is not an attribute of all bodybuilders, but a philosophy that has been embraced by many of them. And it has a very strong presence on the Internet.

There are other, equally pernicious forms of groupthink, even a few that "we" -- we liberals -- have fallen prey to. The strange thing is that on the Internet, EVERYBODY thinks of themselves as intelligent and immune from groupthink. It is easier to convince someone that their political views are wrong.

I recently heard a truism that really summed it up for me: The Person is wise and noble, but People are vicious and cruel. The only thing I'd add is that we all should be on our guard to make sure that we don't become that kind of "people".

--p!

[MineralMan]

9. My Post was not directed at you...

Lots of folks feel they are somehow "special" by virtue of their membership in some group or another, not just bodybuilders. It seems, as you say, to be "groupthink."

Seems like the only solution is to avoid slavish membership in any groups and try, as best one can, to actually think, rather than letting the group think for you.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. I didn't think it was

:blush:

I apologize -- I somehow gave you the wrong impression. I was writing against groupthink in general.

I'm also very aware of the problem in the bodybuilding world, since it's one of the few forms of exercise that work well for me, and so, it is partly MY world, too. It does not surprise me that a bodybuilding forum would have a large membership to encourage troubled people to "leave the gene pool".

"Groupthink" is actually a well-studied phenomenon. It was studied in detail after WW2 because of concerns that groups of politicians or military officers might talk themselves into launching WW3. The fact that it has become so deeply rooted in the Internet and the "Rugged Individualist" (or "Dangerous Thinker") movement is ironic ... and alarming.

--p!

[MineralMan]

12. No apology needed...(nt)

[iamthebandfanman]

10. its sad, and of course theres a detachment

id dare say alot of folks here on DU wouldnt say some of the things they say here if they were put infront of that person face to face...
but, thats kinda what makes the internet a great place...
you get more of a free flow of ideas and thoughts... because hey, theres little chance of repercussion..and if there is any at all you can always just click that x or turn off that computer...


it is awful that the kid did what he did. nobody should feel like thats their only hope or chance of some sort of peace. i do understand all sides in this argument of whos to blame, but in reality nobody is.
i dont know why we try so hard to find fault.