Reality Sandwich- Money and the Crisis of Civilization

[Cassius23]

So...discussion and suggestions based on the article below?

http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_and_crisis_civilization

Money and the Crisis of Civilization

Charles Eisenstein

"Essentially, for the economy to continue growing and for the (interest-based) money system to remain viable, more and more of nature and human relationship must be monetized. For example, thirty years ago most meals were prepared at home; today some two-thirds are prepared outside, in restaurants or supermarket delis. A once unpaid function, cooking, has become a "service". And we are the richer for it. Right?

Another major engine of economic growth over the last three decades, child care, has also made us richer. We are now relieved of the burden of caring for our own children. We pay experts instead, who can do it much more efficiently.

In ancient times entertainment was also a free, participatory function. Everyone played an instrument, sang, participated in drama. Even 75 years ago in America, every small town had its own marching band and baseball team. Now we pay for those services. The economy has grown. Hooray. "

[Greyhound]

1. The monetization of American life, all a part of supplanting the American Dream, individual liberty,

with the Amerikan Dream 2.0 (the endless pursuit of material crap).

Look to the later 19th century to see the formation of it's tenets and mythology.
:kick: & R

[Cassius23]

2. The pursuit of crap is part of it

But also part of it is the fact that things are bought and sold that weren't bought and sold previously.

Stand up comics are a great example of this, as is fast food and child care.

So would that mean that our economy have/had socialist influences and has before the word socialism was coined?

[hfojvt]

5. some of that IS increasing wealth though

As people get richer, they start to get servants. They hire somebody else to cut their grass instead of doing it themself. They eat out more and cook and wash dishes less.

Both of those also became almost necessities because of mothers entering the workforce. Food and child care weren't bought and sold in the past because women and girls did them for 'free'. Now that 70% or more of mothers with children under 5 are in the workforce, somebody else has to do that work for at least 40 hours a week. If they didn't have that option, they would consider themselves poorer, and rightly so.

[Cassius23]

6. But the problem is the system has limits

And that is that it has to keep constantly expanding markets. Consider many of the markers of economic health. They are always based off of growth, which we are finding out is unsustainable.

There are only so many new markets that can be opened up.

[Karenina]

7. Americans need to understand the word

EXPONENTIAL. Unlimited growth is the "mentality" of a cancer cell. (I was reprimanded in 5th grade for using that c-word.)

[Cassius23]

9. Precisely.

That's one of the things that I've been doing some hard thinking about.

How can we have an economic system that doesn't rely on expansion?

[Greyhound]

11. Absolutely the most inefficient and inadequate method of creating "wealth" conceivable.

It is really nothing more than a very poor excuse for stealing others efforts.

[tama]

3. Usury

The mindbogginbly simple mathematical truth is that any usury system (taking interest) must grow at least the amount of interest to stay functional.

Another mindbogginbly simple physical truth is that unlimited growth is not possible in limited environment.

These truths are so mindbogginbly simple that hardly anyone gets them, anymore. Yet any sustainable way of life must start from acceptance of these truths. Economy cannot be based on taking interest, that must stop. As of yesterday.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

[Cassius23]

4. That's actually why...

when I loan my friends money I don't charge interest and I haven't gone bankrupt yet. But then I also only loan them money I don't mind not seeing again.

[glitch]

8. Let's be friends! ;) nt

[wuushew]

10. please no return to a gold standard

gold is far to valuable in an industrial and chemical sense to be wasted by sitting in vaults doing nothing.