The "Most Americans are liberal" Myth.

[cali]

No they're not. Most Americans are neither liberal or conservative. Most don't have a political philosopy. Most Americans like most humans are persuadable. To me this is just an obvious trait of human nature. We see it time after time. We here are in a minority. We have political philosophies. Most people don't and they never will. That's why I find the arguments about whether we're a center/right or center/left country so void of meaning. We have deep cultural underpinnings that are both liberal and conservative, but at any given time, whether the country is liberal or conservative, in the main, depends largely on the leadership.

I do believe, that at this point in time, we have an opportunity to shift to the left. Whether it happens or not, remains to be seen.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Very true. nt

[ThomWV]

2. Don't confuse vocal with conservative

Just because the right yells louder doesn't mean that there are more of them.

[cali]

3. I'm sorry but I fail to see how your comment pertains to the OP

History, sociology and psychology are what I'm founding my opinion on.

[ThomWV]

You said "are" not "were"

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the current condition because you said most Americans 'are' rather than saying we 'were'. So that's what I was trying to point out. Its not so much that people have no opinion or agree with the extreme right but that the extreme right is so vocal that it gives the impression that their following is great, even the majority if you were to believe them.

But what you imply is that we are essentially a nation of sheep. If that were true how on earth can you explain NASCAR or professional football? I joke of course but I think we are better than you imply.

[cali]

12. I think most humans are sheep.

it's not just Americans. And I KNOW we've seen the evidence of that time after time.

[ThomWV]

15. Baaaaa

[John Q. Citizen]

22. You are founding your opinions on academic disciplines?

[JonQ]

4. Considering how few people

vote or seem to show any interest in politics I'd have to agree. The "average" american is apolitical, or at best a weak follower of one party or the other with no real commitment or interest.

[MadHound]

5. I don't know,

Study after study has shown that if you word the issues in a non-weighted manner, ie, do you think that government should help out those who can't help themselves vs. are you in favor of welfare, the public has come off as incredibly liberal.

I think that what's happened is that terms such as liberal and left have been so demonized over the past thirty years that people don't want to admit that they're liberal. But if you dig beneath the surface, I think that you will find that most Americans are indeed liberal:shrug:

[cali]

7. I keep hearing that. I'd appreciate your posting at least a few of those

studies. It seems to me, that on some issues the electorate leans right and on others it leans left, but largely it seems, that most people- not just Americans- can be persuaded to believe or do just about anything.

[MadHound]

27. Let's see,

Michael Moore devoted a chapter to this very subject in "Dude, Where's My Country". Jim Hightower has also explored this in "If the Gods Had Meant Us To Vote They Would Have Given Us Candidates". Greg Palast has also gone down this road in "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

Like I said, a lot of it is in the wording. Americans do have kind, humanitarian instincts and still fundamentally believe in helping each other and promoting fairness. However as you said, they are easily persuadable, and the rabid RW media has persuaded them that anything that smacks of liberalism is evil, thus you have to approach this via the back door:shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

33. A majority of people describe thenselves as moderate or conservative

yet a solid majority of people support liberal solutions to issues.

We have very adaptable brains and can change beliefs based on learned information. Heck with drugs, coercive techniques, and relentless repetition people become cult members.

Heres's a link to Pew. Happy researching! http://pewresearch.org/





Back from 1990- to 1993 I canvassed on health care reform raising money at the doors for non-profit statewide citizen lobbies ($120 min. a night in 5 hours) full time. I worked 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. I got to canvass in 7 states OR CA,WA ID,MT,MN MD. We knocked at every door (it wasn't targeted canvassing it was everybody)

It was fun and doable because most people realized that Americans are being ripped off systematically when it comes to health care. They know it's a mess. Not everybody agreed of course. Some were dead set against changing a thing. But most people knew it could be done a lot better and smarter for everyone. And this was in 1990 - 1993.

Try it. Go talk to a bunch of your country men and women about issues and you will be surprised at what you learn. I was.

[Johonny]

16. I agree

What is funny is many "conservatives" actual are very liberal. They have just been conned by Republicans into believing the liberal mythos and the Republican mythos.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. There you go.

People conflate political leanings with personal leanings - usually people who are politically naive. I know some people who 'republican' who are constantly fearing what will happen when the liberals take over, and they support gay rights (they know and like some gays), support civil rights (work in a multicultural setting with people of many ethnic backgrounds), believe SS should be protected and not privatized, etc., but by Gawd! they are Republican.

The majority of Americans believe in the complete separation of church and state.
The majority of Americans believe in Roe v Wade.
The majority of Americans believe in equal rights, through civil unions, for gays (touchy subject, but if the CU gives the rights that marriage gives under the law, that that is equality).

Of course, the majority of Americans believe in American exceptionalism, and believe in the military and economic empire building our government has engaged in the past 60 years - not a liberal position, but one that can be trained out of the populace with effort.

But in personal dealings with society, most Americans are liberal - they've just been told that liberal is a dirty word and will not use it.

[MadHound]

28. I experience what you're talking about on a daily basis

I live in a rural area, surrounded by "conservatives". However you talk to these people, present liberal programs without the rhetorical baggage, and you find that these people are actually quite liberal. That's how I persuaded a number of my neighbors to vote Obama this year. You just have to cut through thirty years of RW media hate and demonization to get there.

[phantom power]

6. The whole Prop-8 fiasco is a great example of what you are saying...

Prop-8 was going down in flames, until the Mormons funded that huge ad-buy. Clearly, a whole bunch of people were swayed -- on an issue of civil rights -- by a few weeks of ad-campaign.

It happened here in AZ, with prop-102. They ran a bunch of ads, which consisted of nothing but "prop-102 -- keep marriage simple!" That was their entire "argument." And it worked.

Leaves in the wind.

[cali]

8. yes, I think that is a good example.

it's all about moving the majority to any given position.

[moggie]

23. But does that mean that people changed their minds?

Or does it mean that a bunch of formerly apathetic bigots were galvanised to vote by the ad campaign?

Are people apolitical? It's a matter of terminology. True, a lot of people don't have an articulate political philosophy, and don't take much interest in party politics. But life is politics! If you have an opinion about anything which lies in the province of politics - poverty, environment, social liberty etc - you're political. And I'm not convinced that people are so easily malleable on core issues.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. I think that nost Americans have no idea what they are...

Except for what the morons on Squawk Radio have convinced them what they are. Hit them with a few facts and concepts and they start to shift.

[jpgray]

10. Most Americans look round for Mr A and Mr B to direct them where to go and how far in politics

Personally-reached convictions are either nonexistent or deeply fragile in the average voter. Most of the polling indicates that liberal policy "sounds good" to the average voter, but concluding that average voters are liberal from that is a stretch. Whenever such a liberal policy is tested in an election, the results are rarely so favorable--generally the image marketing and narrative politics of campaigning obliterate any inherent proclivity of the voters to prefer liberal policies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. "All politics is local" Tip O'Neil

Most people vote according to what's happening in their lives and the lives of the people they know. If things are going relatively well they will vote for the incumbent or someone of the same party. McCain was a hopeless cause because of Bush and that big "R" behind his name.

If their lives improve, or are perceived as improving, with Obama and the Dems, they will will vote for the Dems.

The electorate is also conformist. They do what their friends and neighbors do and labels be damned.

The country is moving to the left, not because of Obama or the Democrats, but because the right wing government of Bush and the Repugs has failed so obviously and completely.

[wuushew]

13. Aren't all behaviors and beliefs largely rooted in personality?

How are political beliefs different than religious beliefs? People are not swinging from fundamentalism to agnosticism on a weekly basis, yet you imply most of the population is malleable.

I acknowledge that liberals, conservatives and people who just don't care all exist in sizable numbers. What I am sick of is the vast underrepresentation of liberal views in the political sphere.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. The data doesn't reflect your opinion. Check out Pew research and you will

see that.

Unless you have other data your are working from.


I find it interesting that you assert most Americans don't have a political philosophy. How do you come to that conclusion? What data is that based on? or are you friends with a lot of Jehova's Witnesses?

[cali]

20. My claim is that most humans are persuadable, and sure the data

confirms that. Historical data, psychological data, sociological data. Consider Nazi Germany. Consider Milgram's experiments.

And consider the survey after survey that shows Americans know jackshit about their gov't. Consider the number of Americans that don't vote. Consider how easily American were duped about Iraq. I could go on, and on and on

[John Q. Citizen]

32. Humans are persuadable. Which i see as a very good thing. It means we can learn from

the mistakes and the successes of other humans.

Many Americans don't vote as an expression of their political philosophy. There philosophy is different from mine, but people like George Carlin know exactly why they don't (didn't) vote.

Advertising wouldn't exist if humans weren't persuadable. Some humans are more suggestible than others.

Yet, unlike sheep, humans often don't go all together in the herd. The herd instead fissures. And some go one way, others another and still others another way.

We have that strange dichotomy of being both social animals and individuals as well.

What I find interesting is how many humans don't necessarily vote their political philosophy for elected officials, but instead vote their gut feeling response to a candidate. Not all humans do this, but i would guess that most do at least in part.

We live in a very specialized society and world and lots of our members don't know lots of things that others are quite familiar with. You mention how local state and federal gov operates, but what about where our food comes from, or how a car is repaired? Specialization creates an experienced group and an unexperienced group since we can't all be doing everything. This of course has ramifications whether talking about government or dinner.

Americans weren't easily duped about Iraq. A very large segment of the population opposed going to war. A majority favored waiting and getting more information and more multi-lateral support before going in. And until Colin Powell persuaded some people, even more were suspicious of the claims.

Yet the fact that people can be persuaded to a lessor or greater degree doesn't then meant that people don't have a political philosophy.

[Skwmom]

17. Most Americans are NOT corporatatists or neoliberals or neocons.

Of course many Americans can be persuaded. They were initially for the Iraq War.

But in the words of Abraham Lincoln: You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

[ClassWarrior]

18. “Reality has a well-known liberal bias.” (Stephen Colbert)

Read Ruy Teixeira's "The Emerging Democratic Majority."

NGU.

[TankLV]

21. Ahhh - still spewing your CRAP OPINION as "fact" when it isn't...

nice...

[cali]

24. I didn't spew anything as fact. I stated my opinion

sorry it makes your head explode. try and get a grip.

[drmeow]

25. If what you stated was fact

provide some references/research to support it.

[cali]

26. I've always found the Milgram experiments and other experiments

in that vein, enlightening. Also history. And sociology. Seriously, do some reading. It's hardly a novel concept that most people are persuadable. Philosophers have been discussing it forever, and social scientists haven't neglected the theory either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[drmeow]

29. First of all, Milgram's experiments were not

about persuasion, they were about conformity to authority (obedience). Have you read Milgram's original scholarly articles or are you basing your views on wikipedia? Rates of conformity varied tremendously based on situational variables. The generalizability of the most commonly reported Milgram findings are extremely limited. Milgram's studies are not a good reference for supporting your argument that people can be persuaded.

[cali]

30. Persuasion and authority can be closely linked

particularly persuasion by those in authority.

But I'll grant you that Milgram's experiments may not be the best supporting argument for my view that most humans are persuadable. For that I rely on history.

Seriously, what do you think most elections in this country are about? How come so many can be persuaded to vote either republican or dem even when there are stark differences? Why do candidates spend so much on advertising?

[drmeow]

38. I'm not saying that people aren't persuadable

but that does not mean that they do not have a political philosophy nor does it mean that the political philosophy (if you really get down to the bare bones of what they believe the role of government should be) of a majority of Americans does not lean towards the left - social liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism). What the government does is not necessarily reflective of what the people believe or want - most American's don't really know what their government does - they don't pay attention to what laws are passed and, given the complete disregard of the people's voices when Washington passes bills, they don't think it matters what they believe, the government's going to do what it wants anyway. American's pay attention to whether their lives are convenient or not and fair or not.

Part of the problem is that the American people do not trust the government (with good reason) and therefore are open to the deceptive messages of political campaigning, which seem to come mostly from the right wing. They also have been socialized not to look at the long term (which is not different than American companies who have become amazingly short sighted over the past 20 or 30 years due to a focus on annual dividends) so if the things they vote for do not have immediate negative consequences, they don't recognize the long term damage that gets done. They also recognize that they are paying more than their fair share for government services but believe that is because the people using the government services are cheating instead of recognizing that the rich are the ones who are cheating. The disconnect between their beliefs and what the government does is not clear to them because the government says its doing something different than it is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. It's Actually A Very Solid Opinion And Quite Intelligent And Logical.

Though it can be proven to a degree of fact, the logic is sound enough to be far closer to being fact than the alternative.

In addition, the thoughtful and logical OP easily overcomes your thoughtless and knee jerk remarks to it.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Why?

[leftofthedial]

34. most Americans (until recently)

were smugly comfortable ignoramuses.

now they are bewilderedly uncomfortable ignoramuses.

[Two Americas]

36. other way around

It will be the working people doing the "persuading" now, and it is the politicians, the experts, the insiders, and the activists who need to be persuaded.

Count on it. There is a firestorm brewing.

On true political issues involving power and economics, 70% of the people are already to the Left of the chattering class, of the gentrified and aristocratic pundits, experts, politicians and activists, and there is a tidal wave now as the public is moving still farther to the Left.

"Liberal" - as in a grab bag of weekend causes and hobby activities for the better off - is irrelevant now. That modern liberalism would never have succeeded with the general public under any circumstances. However, within a context of left wing politics that address economics and power, all of the social causes will be advanced much more easily and quickly. Within a context of the cultural wars, created by right wing propagandists, the social causes fail and the working people fall farther and farther into a pit of desperation.

[UTUSN]

37. You, sir, are NO sheep. The us-against-them syndrome is virtually inescapable

in the circumscribed area of politics, and I participate in it myself, and, really, don't WANT to leave it behind in dealing with outrageous wingnuts. But when all Good is assigned to those we agree with and all Bad, to the enemy, our higher consciousness tells us that we are playing Rhetorics. We are all a mixture of the whole spectrum of things, whether of political principles or of human nature--fortunately, or otherwise what kind of thing would we be?

[leftstreet]

39. You don't have to be "liberal" or "conservative" to want fair wages

And people standing in bread lines don't talk about abortion or gay marriage.

Economically, people are on the left.