High Speed Rail coming to America - Kerry drops landmark bill

[ProSense]

High Speed Rail coming to America - Kerry drops landmark bill (UPDATE)

by beachmom
Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 07:38:44 AM PST

The first I heard about a major high speed rail bill being worked on by Senator Kerry came from an unusual source: the local Atlanta press. It seemed the unofficial capital of the South, seemingly a world away politically from Boston, was all abuzz about a bill written by the liberal Senator from Massachusetts for which snippets and drafts were being passed around. So what could get the still relatively red state of Georgia all excited? How about connecting Texas to Atlanta, and Atlanta to Boston on high speed rail? Well, it turns out the buzz was a precursor to what I think may be one of the lasting legacies of our former nominee for President and soon to be Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Yes, John Kerry can do more than one thing at a time, and this thing is BIG.

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[NightWatcher]

1. if the US could only get a "European-styled" transit system

ah, to hope, to dream, to put people to work building things that this country needs.

[Mudoria]

5. Might possibly work if America

was as small as Europe.

[JackRiddler]

33. America (the US) is the same size as Europe.

The densely populated eastern half of the US is about equal in size to the European countries west of the former Soviet Union. The less dense western half is about equal to the former Soviet area from Poland to the Urals. The rail density in all of these areas is far higher (per capita) than in the US. The European railways were in part built a century ago, with much less advanced technology. Size has nothing to do with why the US doesn't have a good rail system.

[Two Americas]

34. small countries?

Like Russia you mean? Or China?

We once had a rail network that served almost every community in the country.

[Mudoria]

40. High speed rail?

You're saying China and Russia have high speed rail criss-crossing their countries?

[Two Americas]

45. "high speed"

Speed depends upon the route and the nature of the service. But, yes, if you look at what they are doing in France there is no reason whatsoever that high speed service could not happen between, say, Chicago and Seattle for most of the route.

However, high speed rail is but one aspect of this, one that appeals to the more well off people, just as fancy Italian bikes do and high tech automobiles, who tend to ignore the needs of the working people.

[Hieronymus]

17. Exactly ... those 200 mph trains are wonderful. It would put so many

Americans to work, as well.

[Winterblues]

20. The last time I was in Europe the trains were quite slow

Has that changed? They did go everywhere though. Taking a train was extremely simple and desirable. They were cheap and dependable and very little wait time and they went all over Europe. America could learn a lot from Europe if it wanted.

[NightWatcher]

23. not too fast, but cheap and easy.

kinda like me

[Hieronymus]

24. How long ago were you riding the trains there? The TGV, for instance,

travels around most of France at speeds up to 200 mph. Paris to Provence in 2-3 hours.

[Winterblues]

28. I was there in 1970

A long time ago, but I was never unhappy with the train system there.

[donco6]

29. I was there in the 90s.

Rode the ICE from Munich to Cologne - 4 hours I think. Very nice trip through lovely countryside.

They have slower trains that do the local service, but even those were nice.

I've heard Spain isn't so good. . . ?

[bikebloke]

47. I'd heard the same, but

...seven years ago I was in Spain. The trains were nice and ran on time. None of the four hour stops in the middle of nowhere like the horror stories claimed.

[norepubsin08]

66. My family and I were in Europe in 1993

The trains were wonderful, specially the ICE from Munich to Hamburg. The only place we found the trains to be a problem was our trip from Venice to Budapest and that was the train ride from hell! They went through Slovenia and in the middle of the night, the train stopped at the border all these soldiers came on the train with their rifles aimed at and demanded to see our passports. It happened twice and we were there for about 45 minutes. Interesting experience.

[Two Americas]

35. depends

Local trains are slower, because they serve so many places. But France and Germany have been developing extremely fast trains.

[DS1]

2. How about Boston to Chicago

to make it actually useful

:hide:

[Captain Hilts]

7. Give the Lakeshore dedicated track and you can go 150 mph the whole way with current railstock.

No waiting for freight trains to pass.

Fewer traffic crossings.

More underpasses and overpasses.

And you take hours off the trip.

[DS1]

9. Where's Lakeshore?

[Captain Hilts]

14. Boston to Chicago.

It stops in Albany and half the train goes to NYC the other to Boston.

[blm]

3. Kerry's been working on this for a long time. We'd have highspeed rail up and running by now

if McAuliffe's DNC from 2001-2005 hadn't sat on its hands for four years and allowed the set up of another stolen election for Bush.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. We might even have had it if Carter had been re-elected

[Captain Hilts]

16. Or Dukakis elected. nt

[Juche]

4. Connecting Atlanta to Boston?

I'm confused. I always thought if we got high speed rail it would mostly be reserved for the northeast areas where large cities are within a few hundred miles (Boston to DC, Philadelphia to NYC, etc) or to cities in California.

[onehandle]

11. The stretch between Atlanta and Boston is one of the most heavily traveled.

By plane and automobile. This would be a great help. It would cut down on vehicle traffic and hopefully make the trip cheaper for many.

[Captain Hilts]

15. I took the overnight train to a conference in Atlanta from DC. Worked great.

Both ways it was full of weather channel employees who say airport weather equipment is lousy!

[blm]

41. And that would make the roads safer, too.

.

[Juche]

50. I wasn't aware of that

That Boston to Atlanta was a heavily traveled path. I assume high speed rail will cost alot per mile built, so I figured most of the building will be to connect large cities that are traveled heavily and are within a few hundred miles of each other. If Atlanta to Boston is traveled heavily then go for it.

[Hieronymus]

18. Why not Atlanta to Boston, and connect all major cities with high speed rail?

[Two Americas]

37. long haul

Some of the fastest trains in the country once were long haul. 100 mph plus was common on the Burlington, Union Pacific, Milwaukee Road, and other railroads running long haul passenger trains.

[Kalyke]

46. Why? Do you think the northeast deserves everything?

Besides, what better way to get it into the heads of Southerners that mass transit is a GOOD thing?

[Captain Hilts]

54. Trains work better where population is dense and there is mass transit.

That's why you don't see HUGE rental car facilities outside train stations.

You take the train to Dallas, then what do you do?

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. That is my point, in another thread.

Support for local transit outside NYC is on the wane. Cities like Seattle and Cobalt-Blue places like Maryland are trying to downsize transit as much as possible and accuse people of wanting to spend over $2 billion on subays "where they don't belong."

And they'll blame HSR for not generating huge revenues as a result.

Heck, you can't fully utilize HSR without local mass transit. Not unless you have stadium-size parking lots (and then nobody would use it -- the Victor Gruen paradox).

It's important that people understand HSR funding will not fund local mass transit and that local mass transit funds are being SLASHED by our local Dem elected leaders as we speak.

Obama or Kerry can't fund something local leaders don't want.

And the economic downturn is a perfect excuse for them to fund highways instead of transit.

[Captain Hilts]

6. With its own track current railstock can easily go 150. TRACK, not trains is the limitation.

In the Northeast corridor, trains go slowly or are held up because they have to give way to freight trains whose companies own the track.

There are not enough over or under passes. High speed trains would have this same problem.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Sounds like a project for the new CCC.

Put thousands to work building the infrastructure to support HS rail, requires a lot of heavy equipment (which is one thing the US still excels as manufacturing), and it would be a public works project funded and paid for by the government, injecting millions of dollars into the economy and reaping real results - unlike handing money over to banks.

[blm]

39. That's exactly the way i see it - this would be a huge JOBS program with tangible results

for the future economy and the environment.

[KittyWampus]

44. may I ask how you know? It seems like you've studied this subject a bit and are more fully versed

in what it takes.

Do you think its feasible? High speed rail?

My beef, Amtrak/Aceola is kind of pricey. You can peruse the schedule to look for less expensive runs between cities, but still it's pricey.

[Two Americas]

48. the competition is heavily subsidized

Look at the billions put into highway development. The same money, or a fraction of it, put into railroad right of way development and maintenance would result in far more people and tonnage being moved for the same dollars invested, with fuel savings, greater safety, less pollution, and less impact on the environment. Also, we would all have more freedom. The notion that freedom only comes from individualism is one of the big lies the right wing propagandists have foisted on us. Rugged individualism, and public policies that subsidize that, only benefits the few. The idea that it will "cost too much" or that "we don't have the money" to take care of the people ignores the fact that we are already spending the money, but we are spending it to support and coddle and bail out the wealthy few at the expense of the many.

High speed rail is being demonstrated around the world, it is not a pipe dream.

Roadbed development and maintenance is the key here, and that demands public subsidy.

[Leopolds Ghost]

67. Passive non-super-conducting maglev would enable HSR to go 300.

Using existing iron rail technology (but new ROWs would have to be built and the track gauge would be different -- It would require a 4-rail system -- 2 ordinary rails for when the train is at rest, 2 passive induction coils to elevate the on-board permanent magnets, and an active induction mechanism -- the tech is depicted in the movie The Island.)

Of course the big engineering projects won't fund it for the same reasons they won't fund polywell fusion and insist on building Tokamaks instead -- guaranteed billions in research money until doomsday because active containment / active superconducting maglev will always be a dismal failure designed to suck money into the hands of the big engineering firms.

Passive magnetic stuff is not proprietary so they can't make money off it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

68. Also, TGV can go 200-250 and connect seamlessly to existing local lines.

The danger is that they will avoid building new trunk lines and end up with a boondoggle that is limited by the tracks it runs on.

[onehandle]

8. Traitor Joe is a co-sponsor on this bill

One of the reasons they're keeping him around.

Excellent. I just spent some time on the high-speed rail system in Europe.

We are in desperate need of these systems... Decades ago. Better late than never.

With smirk gone, maybe we can make progress in this country again.

Thanks Senators Kerry, Feinstein, Clinton, Schumer, and even Traitor Joe.

[ProSense]

12. Kerry wrote the bill so I don't care if Lieberman is a co-sponsors, and

I wouldn't if he had joined the Republican caucus.

[onehandle]

36. Me either. I just cited it as an example of why they kept him in the caucus. nt

[beachmom]

30. Lieberman has always been good on the environment.

[Ganja Ninja]

10. It's about time.

We should have a high speed rail system that is as extensive as our interstate highway system.

[Captain Hilts]

42. Let's see $40bn annual subsidy for highways, and $1.4bn annual subsidy for rail...nt

[Ganja Ninja]

51. And how much do we subsidize air travel?

I don't know why rail always has to "pay for itself".

It use to be in this country that we could look ahead and visualize the future. We could rationalize spending for big projects because they would facilitate economic growth. Look what the interstate highway system did for this country over the last 50 years. Nowadays all we can see is the bottom line for every year or every quarter.

Republicans often complain government should be run like a business. I think that's exactly the way we have been running it. We've been running it like so many businesses that have fallen by the wayside over the years, with no vision, no sense of where we're going or want to go. Just worry about the next shareholder meeting/election like GM, Ford and Chrysler.

[Captain Hilts]

52. That drives me INSANE that only rail "has to pay for itself." Air travel is HUGELY...

subsidized.

[InvisibleTouch]

19. I'd like to see a rail system...

...that lets you load up your car on the train and then ride in a passenger car, to cover long stretches. Then disembark with your car to travel in-town at your destination. Cuts down the number of individual cars travelling the highways and polluting, when many of them are headed to the same place anyway - but people would still have the freedom to travel about when they get where they're going, without having to worry about how to get to their hotel from the train station, having to rent a car, etc.

With some foresight a nationwide rail system could really be a big opportunity to travel green.

[darkism]

25. Amtrak Auto Train, Lorton, VA to Sanford, FL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Train

It IS a neat idea. But no matter how many billions Amtrak gets, US rail will never improve without dedicated, high-speed track. When I rode the City of New Orleans last month, there were delays of several hours waiting for freights to pass in bumfuck Mississippi. That just doesn't work.

[madmom]

27. I hear ya, 2 years ago it took me a day and a half by train what I could have driven in 9 hours.

[lostnotforgotten]

22. Can't Wait

eom

[xchrom]

26. what a beautiful elegant idea --

i hope this comes true.

A] we need it.

B] puts americans to work with good jobs.

[Subdivisions]

31. Curious about a system connecting most major cities, I just made this:

[Captain Hilts]

38. Have to link Chicago with St. Louis. nt

[blm]

55. heh....send that to Kerry's office.

.

[blue_onyx]

58. Something like this would be great

I would love a national high-speed train network. It would provide an alternative to air travel, which is becoming more expensive and inconvenient. Although I would connect Detroit into the network too.

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. Looks good!

[bunkerbuster1]

32. SUPERTRAIN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUERtAe73NI

[ohtransplant]

43. K&R!

This guy is good! He works relentlessly, learns from experience and does not quit.

This project is overdue for many reasons. At this point in time it's the type of project that could provide real and productive stimulus to the economy.

Fight on Senator!

[Recursion]

49. Oh please God let that happen

Our rail system is an international joke.

[beachmom]

53. Thanks for the shout out, Prosense.

[blm]

56. Your updates were well worth going back to read a second time.

Thank you.

[ProSense]

59. Thanks for the great diary. n/t

[lunatica]

57. California just passed a high speed rail initiative

So we're building our part...

http://www.calhighspeedrail.org/home

Here are some maps:

[lib2DaBone]

60. How about a New UPS or FED-Ex.. Employing MILLIONS!

.. How about a high speed rail system.. serving every small town and rural area in the United States?

How about a new Fed-Ex Rail Package Service employing millions?

We already own the right-of-way and rail tracks. All it would take is the will of the people.

Oh, sorry, I forgot, the "will of the people" is busy buying Chinese Poison , Cheap-made Chinese Crap at Wal-Mart. Then American's complain when there are no jobs available? Duh..?

Thanks to all Wal-Mart Morons this holiday Season.

[blm]

62. If we have high speed rail, it should include package delivery and bring those costs down, too.

.

[Runcible Spoon]

61. ohh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this happen!

first time I've been excited about policy in forever...

[Leopolds Ghost]

63. Good. Kerry has always supported transit. But keep in mind HSR will not fund urban commuter transit

The FTA policies which Clinton and Reagan and others enacted
place a CAP on funding for new LOCAL mass transportation (subways etc),

which is why local leaders - dems! -- generally oppose increasing the budget
for local transit (they are still trying to downsize the amount of money spent
on new local rail lines, when they are not actively lobbying against them)
because it would eat into their highway funding (which is supposed to pay
for itself but doesn't)

so these HSR stations will all be park-and-rides with no local rail
or rapid bus systems to connect to save a few streetcar circulators.

The list of Blue cities where transit systems have been downgraded
from heavy rail to light rail, or from light rail to bus, or from
subway tunnel to surface / demolition, or outlawed by referendum
to avoid "wasting taxpayer dollars" is growing.