If we cloned neanderthals, would you be cool with enslaving them?

[arcadian]

They wouldn't be human or anything. Just trying to foresee every dystopian outcome. :D :popcorn:

[jody]

1. How do you know they would not be human? n/t

[arcadian]

4. Not homo sapiens, ergo not human.

n/t

[JuniperLea]

11. Ancient humans are still human...

http://www.becominghuman.org/


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human may refer to any member of the Homo genus (since ca. 2.5 million years)
Human taxonomy
Homo sapiens (modern humans), the only surviving species of Homo.
archaic Homo sapiens (since ca. 200,000 years)
Homo sapiens idaltu (ca. 160,000 years ago)
Homo sapiens sapiens palestinus (Cro-Magnon, since ca. 40,000 years ago)
Human evolution
List of human evolution fossils

[arcadian]

50. All kidding aside, neanderthals were never human.

They are on an entirely different evolutionary branch than us "humans".

[daninthemoon]

73. nope, latest wrinkle: sapiens and neandertals got freaky.

[arcadian]

86. I love that "sexy science", makes science so much more palatable.

What are you citing? An infoblurb on the front page of USAToday? :D

[daninthemoon]

93. discovery channel, and anthropology class.

[Xithras]

106. Already been debunked.

They recently did a mtDNA and partial DNA extract from a set of Neanderthal remains. On the upside, we discovered that the Neanderthals were redheads. On the other hand, we discovered that none of the Neanderthal markers were present in humans. If there was any interbreeding, it was insignificant and the offspring had no real impact on human (homo sapiens) development.

[H2O Man]

100. Correct.

[hlthe2b]

Latest scientific facts on Neanderthals: 99.5% identical to humans

The results from the new studies confirm the Neanderthal's humanity, and show that their genomes and ours are more than 99.5 percent identical, differing by only about 3 million bases. "This is a drop in the bucket if you consider that the human genome is 3 billion bases," said Edward Rubin of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who led one of the research teams.

For comparison, the genomes of chimpanzees, our closest living relatives, differ from humans by about 30 million to 50 million base pairs.


No evidence of interbreeding

In popular imagination, Neanderthals are often portrayed as prehistoric brutes who became outsmarted by a more advanced species, humans, emerging from Africa. But excavations and anatomical studies have shown Neanderthals used tools, wore jewelery, buried their dead, cared for their sick, and possibly sang or even spoke in much the same way that we do. Even more humbling, perhaps, their brains were slightly larger than ours.


more:
http://www.livescience.com/health/061115_neanderthal_dna.html

[MNDemNY]

55. So are chimps, so?

[hlthe2b]

62. Uhh. no... Read the findings posted above...

Neanderthals and Homo sapiens are far more alike genetically, dramatically so, than chimps. Read the latest data. I'm not saying there are no differences, but not so much to be so dismissive. Seriously, the findings are fascinating. Take a quick look.

[gimberly]

74. That number would be 99.9% if your other numbers are correct

[hlthe2b]

78. Just cited the summary from the article, but ...

you are right that a difference of 3million bases from 3 billion would reflect 99.9% identical genome... However, the article states a difference of "about" 3 million bases, so maybe that explains the low precision in the reported estimate.

[IndianaJones]

2. as long as we treated them humanely. nt.

[baldguy]

44. Which means we wouldn't enslave them.

[hlthe2b]

66. Like we don't hold our closest living relatives, the great apes

imprisoned.... just sayin.....:shrug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. Is your dog enslaved? n/t

[MNDemNY]

87. Mine is, the bitch.

[hlthe2b]

98. Mine keeps me enslaved...

But she's quite a kind slavemaster....:loveya:

[MNDemNY]

3. I would Patent them, first.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidinalameda]

54. is that why slavery was rampant throughout Africa over the centuries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_slave_trade

[Mojambo]

6. Hey, someone has got to fight the upcoming resource wars.

It sure the hell isn't going to be me.

[JuniperLea]

7. I don't believe in enslaving any living creature...

The dead are altogether different.

[Zhade]

42. Not even mimes???

:p

[madeline_con]

51. A mime is a terrible thing to waste. n/t

[MNDemNY]

57. No, mimes should be eaten.

[JuniperLea]

83. Are they alive?

I thought they were in the zombie genus!

[sl8]

99. Hey !!!

Zombies are were people, too.

[JuniperLea]

104. Heh!

Yep!

Welcome to DU, sl8!

:hi:

[sl8]

109. Thanks!

:hi:

[LaurenG]

8. No

:shrug: why are you planning a cloning party?

[MercutioATC]

9. Absolutely.

I'd force them to make insurance commercials.

[fascisthunter]

10. Don't need to... there are plenty of Freepers

all kidding aside... the idea of enslaving any humanoid is pretty sick.

[MNDemNY]

13. Can we inslave them?

[fascisthunter]

25. I Wouldn't....

I just wanted to point out that there was no need to clone a neanderthal. There are plenty of living, breathing specimens over at freeperland.

[arcadian]

24. Are there any others?

I guess the gorillas, orangutan and the other primates are humanoids. What about human looking robots? It's cool to enslave them still, right?

[fascisthunter]

31. nope... I'm not down with your suggestion of slavery

as I said above, it's sick.

[MNDemNY]

36. How about if we pay them Min. wage, (less expenses, of course"

[fascisthunter]

49. Now That I Can Do.... China Wages or Vietnam wages?

It would be a bit of justice actually to see their efforts effect them this way. After all, they were all for outsourcing and forcing American workers to compete with those who make a fraction of what we Americans make. They deserve it....

[MNDemNY]

59. We'll give them "stock options" He-he.

[MNDemNY]

32. As long as they have no genitals.

[verges]

82. I'm okay on Robots. nt

[loveable liberal]

12. Well, we could experiment with Minnesota's 6th district.

Lousy with Neanderthals.

[Morning Dew]

45. Ouch ! Good one.

at least they elect their own kind.

[Taverner]

14. No - but I wouldn't mind setting aside a preserve for them in their natural setting

[MNDemNY]

17. What if they turn out to be really tasty?

[daninthemoon]

21. then eat them fresh, and forget about preserving them.

[MNDemNY]

27. Couldn't we put some up for the winter?

Kinda like Spam?

[daninthemoon]

37. Spam, spam, spam, baked beans, neandertal, and spam.

[Taverner]

94. Then we could open a Neandertal Burger Stand

[daninthemoon]

20. global warming is destroying the last of their natural setting.

[MNDemNY]

22. OK they can work in the coal mines then.

[daninthemoon]

29. another nifty fifty: "I been workin in a coal mine, ..." along with "Alley oop oop.."

[Taverner]

53. What? Antarctica?

They could survive there where we can't

[Thickasabrick]

15. NO!!! Don't clone Wooly Mammoths either - they'd be lonely and

miserable.

[MNDemNY]

19. Not if we clone a few dozen!

[Thickasabrick]

30. But all the artic regions where they would be happy are going - very

bad idea...I really hope we aren't going to be doing stuff like this until we at least get the planet cleaned up.

[MNDemNY]

52. We can keep them in Zoos and sell them to circuses.

Or we could keep them penned up, you know, "mammoth veal"...yum.

[daninthemoon]

16. we're all clones. one are all and all are one. one are all and all are one.

[arcadian]

28. We are stardust.

We are golden.

[daninthemoon]

33. then we better get ourselves back to the garden

[MNDemNY]

65. Deja-vu

[spoony]

111. This thread just blew my mind.

:hippie:

[azurnoir]

77. we're hybrids doncha' know

between the the gray aliens and neanderthals:evilgrin:

[JFN1]

18. Hell no

Want a slave? Build a friggin' robot!!

[seemunkee]

23. Morloks?

[Taverner]

95. Or Eloi, depending on how you look at it...

[Cattledog]

26. Why not enslave you?

Your idiotic post confirms you are less than human.

[arcadian]

35. Lighten up

:hi: You calling me a neanderthal?

[baldguy]

40. Yeah, the Neanderthals had larger brains and lasted far longer than H. sapiens measly 20k yrs.

They were tough bastards, too. You don't want to fight a Neanderthal.

[MNDemNY]

64. That is why you keep them in chains.

I'm sure a pharmacological concoction would help as well.

[MercutioATC]

56. SOMEBODY took a pissy pill today.

:eyes:

[arcadian]

67. I know, I can't believe how many are taking this thread seriously.

I thought it was obvious I ripped the whole idea off from Conquest of the Planet of the Apes. I won't do that again. :D

[MNDemNY]

69. I think it has been fun.

Hell, we could use them as back-fill.

[arcadian]

79. Note to self. Enslaving a cloned race of 25,000 year old proto-humans = not cool.

n/t

[MNDemNY]

81. I would not close that door, completely.

[hlthe2b]

34. Well, on the evolutionary scale, we certainly treat other primates

with great disdain--take the great highland and lowland gorillas. So, sadly, I could not predict with certainty that it would not happen.

Just look at the defense of Michael Vick posts, if you don't believe that some here believe the welfare of non-human (or arguably in the case of neanderthals, atypical "human") animals unworthy of concern.

[azurnoir]

38. Kinda "jumpin' the shark" aren't you

Neanderthals have bigger brains and possibly superior musculature so just who might end up who's slaves?

[daninthemoon]

43. wouldn't that be something. maybe they could fix the economy.

[MNDemNY]

46. We can keep them in chains, don't let them get..

too comfortable, keep their families split up, not educate them, and beat them into submission, what is the problem?

[Zhade]

39. No, but they shouldn't be allowed to get married. It's unnatural!

:sarcasm:

[MNDemNY]

72. Married, no, but breed the hell out of them!

[arcadian]

91. I'd bang a Neanderthal.

It's like I'd bang the Queen of England, yeah she's 105, but come on, she's the fucking Queen. Then I could say, "Hey, I banged the Queen!"

[Zhade]

110. The "I banged a gorilla" routine Robin Williams did is hysterical.

Same concept.

[Neshanic]

41. Enslave? I would like to date one.

[rug]

47. Why clone Neanderthals? There are already too many Republicans.

[MazeRat7]

48. You mean like we do with other species that are "less than homo sapiens"...

Would this include Cro-Magnum that was a step above Neanderthal on the scale ? Wow, just think of all the interesting "pets" we could have around the house...

:sarcasm:

Peace,
MZr7

[slackmaster]

58. No, but I think I would enjoy having a beer with one

:shrug:

[we can do it]

60. Joe the Plumbers Being Cloned?

[csziggy]

61. The exact nomenclature for Neanderthals has been disputed for years

Some claim they are a sub-species of Homo sapiens, other say they are separate. Recently some geneticists have found possible evidence of Cro-Magnon (modern human)/Neanderthal hybrids and of Neanderthal DNA in current era humans. If the two groups are cross fertile and do not produce infertile offspring, they are the same species.

A more interesting hypothesis was introduced in an alternative history series of stories years ago in which Homo erectus had emigrated to the Americas but modern humans had not. So when the colonists arrived, they enslaved Homo erectus and never imported Africans for slaves. The stories were set during the period equivalent to the beginnings of the American Revolution and had a lot of concern by the equivalents of our Founding Fathers about enslaving creatures that were nearly human but clearly not the equals to modern humans. ETA - A Different Flesh by Harry Turtledove.

Neanderthals, on the other hand, could have been pretty much our equals - brain sizes were the same or even larger, they were stronger for their size and from the types of injuries they survived, they would have been very tough to defeat in one on one conflicts. Their technology was as sophisticated as the first humans to invade Europe. We still do not clearly understand why Neanderthals disappeared - did they die from introduced diseases the way the American Indians did (90-95% death rates nearly killed them off and intentional genocide almost finished the job)? Just that factor along with interbreeding could be why they disappeared.

Lots of theories abound. But to answer your question - enslaving intelligent beings should be abhorrent to thinking people, IMO.

[rasputin5]

63. I don't want any slaves but I'd love to own one!

:D

[Neshanic]

68. NFL saves millions with Neanderthals. Work for twigs and live in stadium.

[Speck Tater]

70. As I recall, the Bible already allows owning Canadians as slaves.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081002064749AAbVzvf

[SidneyCarton]

71. No.

[MNDemNY]

75. Yes.

[SidneyCarton]

101. Trying to be contrarian?

Or is this a cute way of endorsing slavery. By all theories we annihilated Neanderthals in prehistory, is that not enough, shall we now resurrect them just to enslave them? If we do so, then I hope you're right about God, because I'd hate to think what manner of creator we might have who would approve of such ghoulish behavior.

[MNDemNY]

102. Fer chrissake !!! Lighten the fuck up. Are you oblivious to the tone of this thread?

Or does the stick in your ass have a stick in it's ass?

[SidneyCarton]

108. Sorry, posting while tired and a toddler on my lap.

I get it now. ;)

And by the way, not only is there a stick up the stick's ass, there's one up that one as well.

[verges]

76. I thought we already had.

Isn't that where Republicans came from?

[geckosfeet]

80. No, but you on the other hand, are a different story. eom

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Maybe. Depends on their table manners. n/t

[Better Believe It]

88. If George W. Bush is human certainly the Neanderthal's were human

We could place Bush with the cloned Neanderthal's so they could teach him how to make fire and talk.

[AlCzervik]

89. do i get a clone of me or some unknown person?

or do i get to pick?

[theboss]

90. Wouldn't they be remarkably bad slaves?

Are they trainable?

Do they have a specific skillset that I could use?

Would they break more dishes than they would clean?

[Neshanic]

96. They know Vista, so they would be phone support.

[theboss]

97. I think I would pay them the minimum wage for that

I'm a fair man.

[Trillo]

92. Are you suggesting humans aren't enslaved

by corporatism's debt-based financial system?

The best slaves probably believe they're free.

So, we'll give the cloned Neanderthals "freedom", in the doublespeak sense. What's important is that they believe they're free, so the parasitism can continue!

To big to fail!

[L. Coyote]

103. Would you be cool with them enslaving you?

If they are far more intelligent than Homo sapiens, they could rule H. sapiens
and maybe even solve our financial woes by making you work twice as hard and triple the hours :rofl:

[Evoman]

105. No, that's what robots are for.

I can wait until I can get my own robot and download the Lucy Liu looks and personaliy on it via the internet.

[greguganus]

107. Only if the chicks are hot. n/t