Barack Obama is not an economist...

[kentuck]

Contrary to popular opinion, he is not a genius on every subject. Economics is one of those areas where he depends on the advice of others to guide him. Several progressives are questioning his appointment of the new Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner. Also, some are raising questions about Larry Summers and his past record in relation to this most recent bailout strategy.

That is why we have to watch his back. When we think he is wrong, we should not hesitate to tell him so. We need to realize that he is not an authority on every subject. (Not that anyone here is an authority to himself, but we usually reach a fairly sensible consensus) Obama needs to hear opposing viewpoints in those areas where he is not an expert or that knowledgeable...

[tabatha]

1. I wish he would meet and talk with Ravi Batra.

[babylonsister]

2. Geithner. No, he's not an economist, which is why he hired the

team he did. He's an organizer. :)

[kentuck]

3. Ooops.. Sorry about that.

:-)

[BlooInBloo]

4. Oooh! THAT'S a cute new frame! You're "watching his back" now!

:rofl:

That's actually fairly perceptive on your part. Seeing that wrapping youself in "it's patriotic to dissent" parrot-squawking wasn't meeting with great success, you do a rhetorical 180 and cast it as HELPING him!

If you tend that little weed, it might one day grow into a yard full of dandelions - seriously - you might actually be able to win with that.

BRAVO!!!!!!

[kentuck]

6. What the hell you talking about??

I still think it is "patriotic to dissent". Also, I believe that it is not necessarily bad to criticize Barack Obama when we disagree with him. He has said that he wanted a Cabinet exactly like that. And I think we do need to watch his back.

[kentuck]

7. delete

wrong position.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Don't worry - I won't spill the beans any more...

The attempt has piqued my interest enough that I'm gonna try to sit back silently and see if you guys can in fact get this marketing attempt to work, and get a solid amount of support for bitching at everything Obama does, in the guise of "watching his back".


EDIT: hahaha! It puts me in mind of something an (ex-)girlfriend used to like telling me: "I'm not trying to change you, I'm just trying to make you better." HAHAHAHAAHA!!!

[kentuck]

12. Sorry for the misunderstanding but perhaps you can clarify??

You think Obama should never be criticized? You think he is perfect? Or do you mistake "bitching at everything Obama does" as even if it is hardly ever?? Get used to it. He will be criticized. However, he has enough supporters here to separate the credible from the bullshit, I am convinced. And I will be up front, ahead of you, if I think someone is unfairly critical of him.

[JDPriestly]

14. BlooInBloo, if Obama can consult with Republicans, if Obama

seeks the counsel of Republicans (as he says he is doing) then certainly we here on DU who volunteered for the Obama campaign and who supported him should be allowed to voice our opinions. You can bet your buttons the Republicans tell Obama what they think when they disagree with him. Why should we Democrats be silent when we disagree with him?

[BlooInBloo]

18. Oh, I actually don't mind the bitching per se so much...

I more take issue with the rank deceit of calling it "watching his back". But whatever - I will be fascinated to watch and see if this stealth attempt works better for you guys.

[kentuck]

21. What do you mean "you guys"??

Do you mean "us guys"?? He's a brother to me too. I think I understand where you may be coming from? And that is understandable.

[BlooInBloo]

23. And gals - sorry.

[hfojvt]

45. rank deceit? or rank gullibility?

The frame of 'watching his back' implies that Obama is a good guy who might be duped by a bunch of Rubinesque sharks into screwing the working class. The alternative is that he never really cared about the working class any more than any other DLCer.

What is your position here, that centrism is awesome and lefties are loonies?

Some of us might be happier about this new administration if Obama didn't seem determined to be six miles to the right of Jesse Jackson, or even Jimmy Carter.

[kentuck]

46. Criticism can sometimes be constructive....

and helpful. Don't you agree?

[BlooInBloo]

49. I'll bite: Sure - sometimes it can be.

hahaha! Once again: pretty slick.


EDIT: I'm curious to see how much mileage you can get out of that minimal admission.

[kentuck]

52. But the question is "When?"

When would you criticize him? Is it a game of your "enemy" framing an issue against your beloved President or is it someone trying to get to the truth of an issue, in the belief that the truth shall set you free, not enslave you to an ideology or a cult of personality? Should we not be more secure in the idea that the truth will rule and endure over any petty attempt to frame "watching his back" as some undercover and deceitful conspiracy to tear down our new President? In my opinion, the truth will emerge victorious.

[BlooInBloo]

53. hah! i KNEW you couldn't keep it up for long! hahaha!

Back to the same-old-same-old rhetorical tactics... I'm a slave, you're the noble truth-seeker... yadayadayada... cult of personality... blahblahblah...

It's nice that you had at least enough self-awareness not to use the word "messiah", but it doesn't really matter.

But seriously - a MOST excellent attempt on your part. You truly had a quality grift going there for awhile.

A- for your efforts!


EDIT: It appears as though the scam was going alright *as long as you were talking about Obama*. You broke character though, when you started talking about *me and you*. You may want to work on that for version 2.0, which I eagerly await.

[kentuck]

54. Why, thank you!

Caught red-handed! I am so embarrassed. Does that mean I can no longer praise Barack Obama lest I be seen as pulling some "rhetorical tactic"?? And obviously, I can never criticize him or my true colors would truly show? What a nice Catch-22 you have created there? Even the Messiah himself could not escape the twisted knots of such tortured logic.

And for your reading pleasure, I will add this little guy at the end of this sentence. :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

55. Ah... do whatever strikes your creative fancy - you've convinced me you have the knack!

[kentuck]

56. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

Keep the faith, BlooInBloo. I hope you will not be too surprised when you find that we are both on the same side and truly want Barack Obama to be the greatest President we have ever had. He's skinny but he is strong. He can take the criticism. Don't worry about that. :-)

peace

kentuck

[BlooInBloo]

60. Hm. I would imagine that a blind slave isn't much use to anybody....

I'm apparently going downhill at an alarming rate.

Do I still have my looks at least?

[HughMoran]

44. I was thinking similar

...but thought I'd be better off not commenting as it would be taken the wrong way - as was your post! :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

47. Heh. If I let concern with being misunderstood sway me...

I'd either go back to writing 100-page monographs, or simply cease speaking. But I'm unwilling to do the former, and unable to do the latter.

[sandnsea]

5. He has a minor in economy

from Occidental. So yes, he does know a lot on the subject. That said, he also knows who knows more, and who sees the economy differently than he does. And "we" need to realize that most of the people on this board don't know dick about anything, despite their high opinion of themselves.

[kentuck]

10. Just as we did not know a lot about the war in Iraq...

But we opposed it. And just as we opposed George W Bush when his approval ratings were almost 90%. We usually come to fairly sensible consensus, even though we as individuals may be dumb as a rock.

[aquart]

13. Yes.

But since he and his team are starting with JOB CREATION as the goal, Obama and I are on exactly the same page here and I'm fine with it.

Getting anything done with the roadblocks Bush has set up will be a miracle and I intend to applaud every one we get.

While retaining all my bitching privileges.

[kentuck]

17. I agree with your post.

"While retaining all my bitching privileges." :-)

[BlooInBloo]

16. Indeed. Because Obama really is just like bush, eh?

That's why your freely-chosen example is SO on target.

bush:iraq :: obama:economy

How anyone could NOT see the obvious analogy is beyond me.

:rofl:

[kentuck]

19. No. Barack is not like Bush in any way.

He is much more intelligent, much more compassionate, and a better leader and person than George W Bush will ever hope to be in this lifetime. But he is not beyond criticism when we think he is wrong. If you disagree, you have that right.

[BlooInBloo]

22. (shrug) You made the analogy.

[kentuck]

26. With all due respect...Bloo...

I think you may have mis-interpreted the "analogy"??

[BlooInBloo]

28. (shrug) Being wrong is indeed always a theoretical possibility. I cannot deny that.

[kentuck]

30. Once I thought I was wrong...

But I was mistaken. :-)__~~

[BlooInBloo]

32. Heh indeedy. Damn those unavoidable consequences of speaking!

[kentuck]

34. Right on!

Peace. :-)

[babylonsister]

11. ...

:applause: Myself included!

I'm impressed you picked up his undergrad creds. And I love what Obama is doing.

[sandnsea]

20. I think Frenchie did

iirc. And believe me, I included myself as well. :silly:

[BlooInBloo]

25. Somebody should hire Frenchie for oppo research or *some* kind of research...

She does that really well. Thorough, relevant, well-presented - the whole she-bang.

[Mojorabbit]

38. Do you have a link for that?

I thought his dad had a phd in economics but I have never read that Obama had a minor in it.

[BlooInBloo]

51. And to extend that thought, there is the concept of "subtraction by addition"...

Whereby in some situations you end up with *less* of some valuable thing as a result of adding more and more of some other thing. The Mythical Man-Month is something of a locus classicus of the idea. Strategically substitute "intelligence" and "DUers" into the general statement, and you have another example.

[hfojvt]

59. really, most of the people on this board? About anything?

Obama knows much more than I do because he has a minor? I have a minor too, followed by an M.A. So I can be an exception to the most, although I could be manufacturing that degree out of thin air even if I drop the name of Professor Coen of the University of Minnesota.

Obama knows what he's doing, so we should just let the experts handle it? Our only job is to applaud? So we get the same Rubinomics that puts a balanced budget and a cut in the capital gains tax ahead of SCHIP, and we should just applaud if that happens? Trust the experts, they say they are on our side.

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. Good post. We should always put our thoughts out there. nt

[leftofthedial]

15. He has clearly aligned his economic plans with the supply-side, monetarist,

"free market," Wall Street crew. Other than the not insignificant issue of competence, Geithner and Summers would pretty much fit right in with a bush--or any repuke--economic team.

[kentuck]

24. But to be fair..

He has said that he wants a Cabinet of Rivals with opposing viewpoints. But, he has made it clear that in the end, the decision is his. We cannot assume he will make any decision from the appointments he has made thus far.

[sandnsea]

27. He's said a few things

He's said there will be budget cuts. He's said making our economy competitive requires investment in infrastructure and education, and that fixing health care is critical as well. So if people actually listened to the man, they would know he is talking about doing the exact thing DU has been harping about for years. Instead, as always, they listen to what the pundits and wsws say, and then set themselves in a spin about it. Never remembering that wsws and commondreams and counterpunch need traffic to pay the bills too.

[kentuck]

29. Well, that is true...

But I think we need to weigh his words and actions very carefully at this time. His knowledge and political judgment up to this point have been mostly right on target.

[leftofthedial]

35. I haven't heard any pundits. I don't have time for pundits.

I read the names of his appointments and researched them online. With minor exceptions, their resumes scream "status quo."

He keeps saying "infrastructure and education" and such, but he keeps appointing supply-side Wall Streeters.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

50. Boy Howdy. Ain't that the friggin' troof.

Sometimes I think that if someone reanimated Che' Guevara and gave him a position in the government, Counterpunch would complain about the smell.

[leftofthedial]

31. I don't know.

I'm impressed that he's picking capable people, but there is a clear philosophical trajectory in his picks so far. I can't imagine Geithner suddenly abandoning his IMF, Fed, AIG, Bear Stearns, top-of-the-money-pile roots. I doubt he has an inkling of what life is like on "Main Street" anywhere--or cares.

[kentuck]

33. I share your concerns...

and that was the thought behind the original post. We should not be silent when we have these concerns.

[leftofthedial]

37. With that I absolutely agree.

But I doubt that Obama is listening or that he cares.

[kentuck]

39. I hope you are wrong..

in that he is not listening or that he cares? I think he does.

[leftofthedial]

40. I just don't see anyone in his circle with the necessary perspective.

I hope I'm wrong too.

[kentuck]

41. Who is this "Melody" lady that he introduced...?

She may be offering a different viewpoint?? (The very attractive young black lady)

[leftofthedial]

42. She's the only clearly left-of-center person so far.

Melody Barnes, Director of the Domestic Policy Council.

I'm not sure how much economic input she'll have. She's a lawyer.

[kentuck]

43. Behind the scenes, she may have more input and impact...

than we will ever know?

[babylonsister]

36. Did you see Maddow and Sirota tonight?

It might be a crap shoot on who Obama has hired, but if he gets results, ALL bets are off.

[gravity]

48. Obama knows what he is doing

He is not a genius at every subject, but he is smart enough to surround himself with the best people in their respective fields and entertains all sides of an issue before making a decision.

[mwei924]

57. But I would assume most people here aren't economists either.

That's why Obama hired a bunch of economists. You can distrust the advice of economists, but let's not pretend like we're better authorities on the subject.

[BlooInBloo]

58. Apparently you're unaware of the fact that 100,000 people who don't know shit ADDS UP to...

... uh.... hmmm... Dammit! I sweartagawd I thought this was going somewhere.


EDIT: Oh yah - I remember now! It's patriotic to dissent! squawk! It's patriotic to dissent! squawk! Why do you hate America and its freedom of speech you nazi! But really, it's for Obama's own good. Believe me.