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Who would stay at the Pentagon with Robert Gates?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 08:51 AM
Original message
Who would stay at the Pentagon with Robert Gates?
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 08:57 AM by bigtree
from Politico: http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_11078866

There are a number of reasons for concern, mainly that those who serve under Gates don't hurt Barack Obama's efforts to withdraw from Iraq, as he promised during the campaign, and also that Democrats who helped elect him win their share of high-ranking posts.

Under one scenario, former Navy Secretary Richard Danzig would serve as Gates' deputy — sort of a secretary-in-waiting — then be promoted. In any case, Danzig would also need a team of his own deputies.

Among those mentioned as possibly staying with Gates are Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England, Pentagon weapons chief John Young and Gates' special assistant Robert Rangel.

But England might be a tough sell among Democrats because of his close ties to the Bush administration. Before taking over as deputy defense secretary, England was the secretary of the Navy and the deputy secretary of homeland security (also was a General Dynamics contractor and a former president of Lockheed's Fort Worth Division where the built the Joint Strike Fighter combat planes).

Young is not seen as overly political. Although he worked for many years in the Bush Pentagon as the director of defense research and engineering and a Navy assistant secretary, he was previously an aide for the Senate Appropriations Defense Subcommittee, working for Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) and Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska).

. . . and, what about Petraeus?
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hell we might as well bring back the god damned OSP too.
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 09:01 AM by Hubert Flottz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

So much for cleaning up our image abroad...Forgive war crazy LIEberman and now keep Bush's cronies on at the Pentagon? Boy we made some progress didn't we.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. this is exactly what I didn't want
I've been advocating against the Iraq occupation since the beginning and Gates has just served to enable Bush to continue, escalate, and prolong the occupation for purely political reasons. He has ZERO credibility in any withdrawal effort. I'm just stymied by this report.

I really can't believe Mr. Obama would be this naive about leaving a Bush crony in place as he confronts such an important issue. I don't think he needs Gate's cover for ANYTHING. There are plenty of capable men and women who could assume that post without any concern about negative effects of some loss of continuity. Continuity is what the career military is there for.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It just makes me sick...
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 09:24 AM by Hubert Flottz
I don't think much is going to "CHANGE"...

Edit...I'm really pissed off, because I trusted Obama.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. this is the issue I care most about, and I've been handed a Bush enabler,
in a Democratic administration, from whom I'm supposed to measure change and expect a reversal of the completely bankrupt and immoral militarism Gates and Bush have practiced without regard to ANY of our concerns.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Gates has gone right on doing the things Rummy was doing.
He is just able to cover it up better. No chance of any budget cuts for the DOD with Gates batting for Poppy Bush's friends at Carlyle Group. Blackwater and Halliburton/KB&R will be happy campers too.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Only Good Thing I Can Say About Gates. . .
. . .is that he's not Rumsfeld. Not exactly high praise.
The Professor
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. How are we supposed to regard Gates as an ally in the withdrawal effort
. . . when he's posed as one of the obstacles? The last proposed withdrawal (proposed by the military commanders) was stifled by his open and vehement opposition. Are we supposed to adopt his philosophy that the Iraq occupation is part of an 'ideological struggle?

America’s best opportunity to discredit and deflate the extremist ideology is in Afghanistan and Iraq, Gates said in May.

He may mouth a moderate version of the Bush Doctrine, but he's been implementing it without any regard to moderation at all. Remember, it was Gates who put himself out front and 'recommended' a slowdown of even the withdrawal that had been announced:


BAGHDAD, Feb. 11 -- Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Monday that he would support a temporary halt in the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq this summer, a move that elicited anger from Democrats backing a speedier military exit from the country.

The remarks, made after Gates met with senior commanders during an unannounced visit to Iraq, marked a significant shift from his previously stated hope of achieving a continual drawdown to about 100,000 troops, which would include 10 combat brigades as well as support troops, by the end of this year. His backing of a pause in the withdrawal makes it unlikely that troop levels in 2008 will drop much beyond the 15 combat brigades -- about 130,000 troops, including support forces -- that were deployed before the so-called surge began a year ago.

"I think the notion of a brief period of consolidation and evaluation probably does make sense," Gates told reporters traveling with him. He did not say how long such a period would last.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021100162_pf.html
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I Meant That As A Disapproval Of Him Staying
The only good thing i can say about him is he's better than Rumsfeld. That's not a compliment!

I think you misunderstood me.
GAC
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. sorry for the misunderstanding
. . . still, all of Rumsfeld's constructions are firmly in place and have been advantaging Gate's own militarism, like the continuing and escalating Drone attacks across sovereign borders.

He may well be more efficient than Rumsfeld, but I actually see his tenure as more pernicious because of his ruse that he's some sort of reformer or moderating influence on Bush policy. I worry about what his own constructions at the Pentagon entail and how intractable or accessible for evaluation and removal they will be when Pres. Obama assumes control.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I Hope You're Too Worried
Although i can't argue with your reasoning. I just hope that the new sheriff will mean new behaviors.

GAC
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I just found a comprehensive article which gives a positive rationale for Gates remaining
I still can't get behind all of the scheming and intentions that are touted behind support for him continuing, but it's instructive in it's explanation of the complex decisions the military may expect Obama to either weigh in on, take a position on, or delegate decisions on . . .



from Asia Times Online:

The difficulties faced by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan have sparked a revolution in thinking inside the American military. Some of thee leaders of this revolution are well known: Generals Petraeus, Odierno, McKiernan and Petraeus counter-insurgency expert David Kilcullen. Petraeus, Odierno, McKiernan, Kilcullen have focused on what the military calls "Phase IV Operations" - the post-combat "nation-building" phase of providing stability, reconstruction and economic programs in post-war societies.

Recently, however, the loudest voices calling for more focus on Phase IV operations ("in which wars are really won") have come from the US Marine Corps, and particularly the group of serving and recently retired colonels around marine commandant James Conway and General James Mattis, the current Joint Forces Commander. These are the same colonels, primarily from the Marine Corps 3rd Civil Affairs Group (CAG) who first met with Anbar officials in Amman in 2004 and who, as a result, kick-started the Anbar Awakening. Quietly supported by senior civilian policymakers at the Pentagon, these colonels have been urging Obama transition officials to retain the myriad "Phase IV" operations in Iraq and to set aside increased resources for the inter-departmental structures that have grown up around the effort.

The colonels have a number of allies, including senior Department of Defense policymakers who have brought together Pentagon, State Department and US Agency for International Development officials in an effort to coordinate "nation building" operations.

A core of strong voices, including Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict, Celeste Ward, and counter-insurgency wonk Janine Davidson, have emerged as important advocates for increased "interagency planning that fully integrates civilian and military activities vital for developing governance structures in a post-conflict environment", as Ward says.

The new effort has resulted in the creation of the Consortium for Complex Operations, a kind of internal "super think-tank" headed by Davidson that is attempting to draw together government thinking on managing post-conflict societies. Ward and Davidson's initiative was welcomed by the marines, which strengthened its "Phase IV" offerings when Mattis assigned a senior officer to the army's recently created Peacekeeping and Stability Operations Institute at the Army War College. The marines, the army Peacekeeping and Stability Operations Institute, and the Consortium - and well-placed defense thinkers at the Pentagon - have been working to shift government thinking and military planning on how best to address the challenges facing the US in the Middle East.


{snip}

Come January, the new Obama defense team will find itself in the midst of an escalating conflict between counter-insurgency advocates who feel besieged by the traditional proponents of the "AirLand Battle doctrine" and those who live in the world of counter-insurgency operations . . .

This contentious battle between red and blue "pill swallowers" has escalated to the point where it now involves the secretary of defense and JCS chairman. Both have attempted to adopt a delicate middle ground, arguing that it is possible for the nation to prepare for both a major war and train its soldiers in counter-insurgency doctrine. "Even the biggest of wars will require so-called 'smart war' capabilities," Gates said recently at the National Defense University. "In Iraq, we've seen how an army that was basically a smaller version of the Cold War force can over time become an effective instrument of counter-insurgency." Mullen, on the other hand, has emphasized the need for the creation of a balanced force, adding, "I do worry about us losing our focus too much in the counter-insurgency world. We need balance in the way we think, in the way we train and in the way we resource ourselves."

In a series of public addresses, Gates has also focused the military on a new mantra. Quoting a turn-of-the-century American general by the name of Fox Conner, Gates says that the US should "never fight unless it has to, never fight alone, and never fight for long". While Gates would never acknowledge it, the mantra is a direct repudiation of the Bush Doctrine of fighting "preventive wars" - which suggests that the best way to keep America's enemies from going to war is to bomb them first.

Nor does he add a fourth principle, the Lincoln Doctrine, that dictates that, in wartime, the US should deploy all the forces it has. The doctrine is derived from Abraham Lincoln's instructions to Ulysses S Grant, just prior to the last campaign of the Civil War. "This time," Lincoln told Grant, "put everyone in." The Gates mantra and the Lincoln Doctrine may provide the best way to resolve the blue pill-red pill debate, as both sides agree that whether or not the new counter-insurgency doctrine becomes the doctrine of the future, the US should not only stay out of unnecessary wars, but also deploy enough troops to ensure victory; it's a view that Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld - and Franks - pointedly ignored.

While it seems unlikely that Obama will decide the military's increasingly nasty doctrinal debate, leaving the question to senior military officers, it seems likely that those who emphasize training soldiers to master "Phase IV" operations will be heeded. The Obama military brains trust contains a large number of Pentagon officials-in-waiting whose primary expertise is in "Phase IV" operations. Included in this number are former marine officer Nate Fick (a fellow at the Center for a New American Security - CNAS) , Roger Carstens (a retired army special forces lieutenant colonel and CNAS fellow), Shawn Brimley (also a fellow at CNAS), influential army colonel Peter Mansoor (a professor of military history at Ohio State University), and retired army Lieutenant Colonel John Nagl, who helped Petraeus and Mattis write the military's counter-insurgency field manual.

much more: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JK25Ak01.html
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks. eom
.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. darkclouds on the horizon again.
bring the troops home.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Now
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 09:48 AM by bigtree
. . . not waiting until Gates declares he's 'won' something there or waiting for him to 'defeat' a violent mindset against the U.S. in Iraq (or anywhere else) by perpetuating the root cause which is our opportunistic military meddling abroad.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. officers need war
a guy i knew who was in vietnam told me that once..officers NEED war..its how they progress in the ranks. Its their bread and butter. add to that the war profiteers who run the money to the coffers of politicians and you have endless wars.
war is a scam. too bad so many people fall for the propaganda.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. Rumsfeld ---
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. - to a more efficient Rumsfeld
__who worked to intensify and escalate the occupation

moving right along
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Gates To Stay On As Defense Secretary
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_081126.htm

Looks like we are not alone in our reservations and uneasiness about secretary Gates staying on at DOD.
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