Eight firms caved in at once to James Dobson and his "Christmas Police"

[madfloridian]

Great description of Dobson's fight against the yearly war on Christmas from Talk 2 Action's and AU's Rob Boston

It is alarming that 8 firms would cave in to Dobson's demand that they use the word Christmas in their catalogs.

But Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family has a different worry: Dobson and his band of Religious Right "Christmas Police" are fretting that Americans might accidentally shop at a store that fails to use the proper religiously correct terminology. Thus, they've prepared a handy list for us to use.

Back in April, FOF sent letters to the heads of 33 leading retailers, demanding that they use the term "Christmas" in their 2008 end-of-year catalogs. Let me emphasize that: They did this in April. Easter wasn't even over yet, and these cranks were obsessing about catalogs that wouldn't even be issued for another seven months. I'm trying to imagine the rolling of eyes that must have taken place at some of these companies when FOF's letters about Christmas arrived just as the spring flowers were pushing up through the soil. My guess is that most of letters were tossed, because as of Nov. 11, FOF had not received replies from 22 companies (among them Target, K-Mart, JC Penney, Home Depot, Borders, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdale's, Sears, Lands' End and L.L. Bean).

Eight firms caved immediately: Best Buy, Cabela's, Kohl's, Lowe's, Nordstrom, Pier 1, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart.

The Gap, Banana Republic and Old Navy replied to the FOF missive, but, the group soberly reports, "did not convey a clear commitment to use the term `Christmas.' Rather, they communicated their intent to approach their marketing in broad and diverse terms."

Added FOF, "We'll have to observe and see if what they publish avoids an insulting marginalization of Christmas."

Please do not confuse Dobson's fight against the marginalization, so-called, of Christmas with that of Don Wildmon and the American Family Association's fight to keep us from stealing Christmas. The AFA website even has stickers and buttons for sale.



Holiday Humbug...say Merry Christmas to Don Wildmon.

trick or treaters and “It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.” I know Christmas is coming in two months – but c’mon. Can’t we take the holidays one at a time? Not according to the Rev. Donald Wildmon. In what is becoming a yearly tradition, the dour founder of the American Family Association has once again, two weeks before Halloween, started complaining about the failure of people to use the phrase “Merry Christmas.”

“It’s OK To Say Merry Christmas,” blare new buttons and stickers being hawked on the AFA Web site. A pack of 10 buttons goes for a “suggested donation” of nine dollars, but the “semi-permanent adhesive, glossy finish stickers” run high at 10 for $24 (with free shipping!)

“It’s hard to believe that there are companies and individuals who want to ban ‘Merry Christmas’ and replace it with ‘Holiday Greetings’ because, they say, they don’t want to offend anyone,” Wildmon grumps in a press release.

Yes, that is hard to believe – because no one wants to do that. I’ve been through this with Wildmon and his buddies before.

Wildmon also believes Democrats want to water down the meaning of Easter as well.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean released the following statement commemorating the Easter holiday this Sunday:

“Easter Sunday is a joyful celebration. The holiday represents peace, redemption and renewal, a theme which brings hope to people of all faiths. During this time Christians are called to remember who they are as people of faith, and that even the greatest of evils will not have the last word. It is also a time to reflect upon and be in solidarity with those who are persecuted and suffering among us. We should also use this time to honor those who continue to make incredible sacrifices for us, including our brave men and women in the armed forces serving overseas during this holiday. I would like to wish all those celebrating around the world this Sunday, a joyous Easter.”

..."American Family Association chairman Don Wildmon has called on Dean and the DNC to apologize to Christians for "taking Easter and making it into a nondescript, universal, nonexclusive religious celebration for all religions." But Pastor Rob Schenck of the National Clergy Council says Dean's definition of Easter is not shocking because the Democratic leader has long been the "quintessential secularist."

Rob Boston in October this year had some good words for the AFA.

Don’t look to corporations and stores to save your holiday, Don. Don’t expect that a directive from a home office somewhere ordering the men and women who staff the checkouts to say “Merry Christmas” will lead to a religious revival. It’s just silly.

Want a religious experience in December? I know where you can find one: in a church.

Finally, I’d just like to be the first to wish Don Wildmon and the entire staff of the AFA a very Merry Christmas.

I hope they’re happy now because I’ve got to go pick up some Halloween candy.

[phantom power]

1. It makes me sad that any business gives a fuck what James Dobson thinks.

[kevinbgoode]

25. Makes me sadder to think a retailer would comply with

Dobson's demand to promote "Christian-only" sales.

[StreetKnowledge]

54. No kidding.

Dobson's Christian righties clearly can't see why the phrase "Happy Holidays" is used - not everyone in America is a Christian, numbskull!

[Lost River Ledger]

58. Just one more way for them to raise money.....

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. Retailers are concerned about income next month.

They probably don't want to risk alienating a very, very vocal element of their target consumers.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

10. True, but there are probably enough fence-sitters who would be discouraged by a fundie flipping out.

They'd take their business elsewhere. After all, most people like to avoid conflict, even if they're not actually involved in that fight.

[JitterbugPerfume]

14. poor people who can only AFFORD to shop at walmart

are white trash scum,one and all??


good to know

[D-Lee]

17. Wal-mart has a lot to do with exporting US manufacturing

Look at all those "made in (where-ever outside the US)" stickers ...

[Lyric]

3. What the AFA isn't interested in understanding is this:

It was never about not OFFENDING people. It was about INCLUDING people.

Those assholes just try to paint it as PC nonsense because they cannot STAND the fact that "Christian" and "American" are not synonymous terms.

[Jade Fox]

52. Inclusion scares the Christian Right......

They are herd animals. They need everyone around to be just like them, or they lose sight of their identity and purpose.

Herd type people do not understand that many of us can happily be who we are while allowing others to be different.

[msongs]

4. the war on non-christians is underway, endorsed by US corporations

at Kmart the other day the music told me I must embrace and worship Christ while I shop there. No thanks.

msongs

[jazzjunkysue]

48. Just one of the many reasons I do not partake of the God Wal Mart

The shitty lighting and even crappier stock notwithstanding.

[undeterred]

5. Insatiable spending on material things is the real enemy of Christmas.

Having the clerks say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holdays ain't going to change that.

[nichomachus]

6. Nothing says "Welcome Baby Jesus"

Like going into debt buying and selling crap made by slave laborers in China.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

11. They died for your savings.

[MountainLaurel]

15. That's what I don't get

The same folks who scream about the commercialization of Christmas are now screaming because retailers aren't using Jeebus to sell their crap?!

[LeftinOH]

8. If/when I ever actually use the term "Merry Christmas"..it is only ON that day;

otherwise, its "Happy Holidays" (meaning Thanksgiving thru New Years), so f*ck the AFA -and Dobson, especially.

[DJ13]

9. "Going Out Of Business"

"Merry Fucking Christmas"

Would that appease those idiots?

[Gwendolyn]

12. Christmas is the happy time of year, when anti-choice people focus...

...their boundless energies on other worthwhile projects. At least it gives some groups a breather while they focus on others. :D

Doesn't surprise me though, that Dobson would've started his campaign immediately following Easter since that's when the big companies do start to produce their Christmas catalogs. Some are printed by August.

[fumsm]

13. I have but one thing to say

FUCK DOBSON AND THE REPUBLICAN HE RODE IN ON.............

[Alter Ego]

16. Happy Kwanzaa, Rev. Dobson!

You enormous douchebag, you.

[DBoon]

36. and a very merry Saturnalia, too

nt

[SalmonChantedEvening]

18. Blackmail, AFA Style

Problem is, the boycotts they threaten are seldom successful. People will shop where the bargains are. Especially in times like these.

[JackBeck]

19. Just another money making scam to add to the list.

I predict that we won't be hearing that much from them, if at all, after the next 8 years.

[Rob H.]

20. Happy Winter Solstice, Dogbeatin' Dobson

My gift to you is a great big box of STFU. Enjoy! :sarcasm:

[Swede]

21. Ho-ho-hold the payments til 2010.

:hi:

[greguganus]

22. Most businesses are hurting and will do what they have to do to make $$. n/t

[madfloridian]

32. That's true.

:hi:

[Mari333]

23. I worked in retail a few years ago

We had a customer come in during the Holidays, and he had that portly, angry look about him. LL Bean clothes, touristy.
He went thru the lady's line next to mine and after she was done checking out his groceries, she said 'Happy Holidays'.
He stood there, a gruff look covered his face, and said
"SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS. SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS"
the cashier just stood there. we had been told to say happy holidays. we live in a community where people celebrate Kwanzza, Christmas, and Hannukah.
he wouldnt budge. he had his hand clenched in a fist and it tightened into a ball as he stood and wouldnt budge.
people were waiting in line, but he didnt care.
'SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS!" he bellowed at the quiet cashier who was much smaller then him.
I called the manager, and he finally took the guy aside.
I wanted to explain to this guy that JESUS didnt behave like that, but I didnt want to lose my job.
anyway, thats what this story reminds me of.

[Lilith Velkor]

26. I had a guy do that to me once

I bellowed, "HAPPY HANNUKAH!" at the top of my lungs.

The people in line behind him all applauded, and he abruptly walked away.

[1Hippiechick]

30. I had a similar experience a few years ago as I walked past a Wal-Mart 'greeter' and said "Happy

Holidays." In a lip-curling Dick Cheney snarl, she shouted "It's Merry Christmas! Humph." And I thought, "Yeah, right. And you wonder why people aren't attracted to YOUR Christ?!?"

[ksimons]

38. that greeter it probably eating her chocolate baby jesus from walmart chocolate nativity scene

to keep from starving to death, thanks to the pro-christmas policies of George W. Bush. Compassionately suffocating the country with his lack of leadership and industry-supportive policies.

Good for her. She's going to need the baby jesus chocolate calories to carry her over till easter, when the new walmart 'jesus rolls back the stone chocolate easter set' is released for her tummy to enjoy.

[1Hippiechick]

46. Thank you for my Thanksgiving LOL during a break from the harried preparation (had to come to DU) nt

[verges]

33. I had something similar happen a few years ago.

Except it was a regular customer. I said that I had no idea what religious persuasion he was. For all I knew, he could be Jewish. Furthermore, he had no idea what religious persuasion I was. For all he knew, I could be Jewish. This silenced him for a moment. "You are? I'm sorry." "No Andy, I'm not. And that's not the point." I replied "It just seems rude to me to ASSUME anyone's religious identity." I then wished him a Happy Holiday. For the next two Holiday season's, I made a point of saying "Happy Holiday" to him. I even got the other employee's to do it too. He stopped bitching.

[jazzjunkysue]

49. A senior citizen at my school did that to me at a concert- Really miserable woman.

"Why don't they sing Merry Chritmas" between clenched jaws.

Maybe it's because these people wouldn't know happy if it fell on their heads.

I really don't know one card carrying xtian who has any sense of humor, or knows how to smile without sneering.

Religion is politics. The prosecution rests.

[iamjoy]

44. You Just Have To Be Subtle...

Merry Christmas, sir. I hope Jesus continues to provide an example of how we should treat one another.

Of course, sometimes it's hard to think of such things on the spot. I love politely shutting down arrogant boneheads. It's not always too subtle for them to get, and if you wear a sly grin they'll know you're insulting them, but won't quite get why so there's no cause for them to complain.

[kevinbgoode]

24. So maybe we should send these retailers an email

asking if they are running "Christian-only" sales this month, while ignoring all of the other holidays being celebrated by diverse groups.

After all, shouldn't we be able to ask if we are allowed to purchase items at the same prices as the dominionists who get their own "religious" event sales?

[HillWilliam]

27. If they focused on their own damned families

they wouldn't have time for this shit.

[Wise Child]

28. Happy Hannukah, Dr. Dobson

Remember, Neo-Con aligned Jews, that they will support Israel, whole-heartily, but get the hell of their way when they perform their annual six-week skirmish known as the so-called "War on Christmas."

[1Hippiechick]

29. Why doesn't someone ask these RW nutjobs what greeting Christ used, since it IS about keeping Christ

in Christmas, right? (Some would actually pause and ponder--particularly those who adamantly declare that the King James version of the Bible is what Paul used.) It's a laff a minute, I tell ya!

:rofl:

[warren pease]

31. Why on earth would anybody take these pricks seriously?

How does any group of delusional idiots and certifiable maniacs get anybody to do anything except laugh at them, hurl insults or just ignore them completely?

That and bombard their leaders with dozens of snide, sarcastic emails that probably never get read but are still a lot of fun to write.

So the self-anointed leaders of these cults, and their giant "flocks" of religiously insane fundie loons and winger fanatics, are still at war to keep their magic crucified icon from disappearing into some unthinkably evil land of moral relativism.

It's a stunningly dumb collection of slobbering slack-jawed wankers here in Dumbfuckistan. The big problem with movements of, by and for truly stupid people is that their undue influence slops over and slimes the rest of us.

It's pretty infuriating to recognize the fact that, because of their overwhelming numbers, these tiny brained bigots, racist hypocrites and phony, mean-spirited assholes who populate the religious right are making life in America so much dumber and lousier than it used to be when they were simply known as jesus freaks, marginalized as national laughingstocks and dismissed as delusional idiots.


Pax vobiscum,

wp

[prostock69]

34. He better worry and I am glad he is.

Numerous Christians are "losing their religion" simply because reason and rational thinking has finally taken back control of their brains.

"No man has ever sat down calmly unbiased to reason out his religion, and not ended up rejecting it." Henry Fielding
"The need for religion will end when man becomes sensible enough to govern himself." Francisco Ferrer

Peace and good will to all men, even those God-fearing, obsessive RW nut jobs. God luv 'em!

[ladym55]

35. Newsflash to Dr. Dobson and his pals

Umm, Christmas is NOT about Kohl's sales that have employees opening stores at 4 am after Thanksgiving Day ... or Wal-Mart jammed with products made in China ... or people beating on each other to get the "hot" electronics item at Best Buy.

Dr. Dobson is offensive ... Bill O'Reilly (who also bleats about the War on Christmas annually) is offensive.

Christmas is NOT about gross greed and consumption and debt. And in the obscene consumer frenzy, who CARES if the exhausted and underpaid employee (who is working absolutely INSANE hours so we can shop 'til we drop) says "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Christmas." If these GREAT defenders of the Christian faith actually followed the tenets of the faith they claim to speak for, they would encourage people to focus on caring for others, feeding the hungry, and caring for the poor. They would speak out against gross consumption.

But that would assume Dr. Dobson and his buddies were legitimate. They aren't, and I, for one, am tired of the annual "War on Christmas." Maybe the buttons should say, "It's okay to be an obnoxious bully about my beliefs."

[prostock69]

43. Amen!!! lol. Great post.

[ksimons]

37. Dobson now chewing away at the edges - all the meat has been taken by the Dems! woo hoo

Sounds like they'll do anything and everything to put money in their pockets - and with the economy as bad as it is getting, they are going to be that much more desperate. Can't wait to see what threats they imply are coming our way to get money out of wallets and into the plates.

Oh, can't wait, indeed.

[Dukkha]

39. 8 firms I won't be shopping at

Kohls I like but not for holiday shopping, the others I rarely visit, the last one I wouldn't be caught dead at.

[saltpoint]

40. The Dobsons and Wildmons and Perkinses -- that bunch --

have done more to marginalize Christianity than almost anyone anywhere.

"Jesus," George W. Bush responded when asked his favorite philosopher, this from a president who glibly bombed innocent and unarmed populations to smithereens, stuffed his crotch with socks and pranced around on an aircraft carrier beneath a 'Mission Accomplished' sign.

It's real damn hard to find a precedent for that model of Christianity in the New Testament.

Dobson has risen to the point of high influence in the fundamentalist Christian movement, which by its own intents and purposes supplants the tenets of the ministry of Jesus.

My deep hope is that more secular sensibilities will prevail in the Republican Party who are brave enough to accept a string of national defeats in order to break loose from the fundies' unnatural grip. That will be an uphill climb, as at the moment there aren't a lot of visible leaders in the GOP with the clout or vision to stand up to Dobson et al.

[Quantess]

41. Maybe the stores can also encourage fathers to let their young sons see their "package"

As James Dobson advises, to encourage heterosexuality in young boys.
Dads, show son your package! And I don't mean Christmas package:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/24/11556/3067/35/541003

[DollyM]

42. In all fairness . . .

retailers get hit from both sides on this issue and don't know what to do anymore. I remember a few years back when Wal-Mart got pressured from some groups about using the greeting "merry christmas" so they bowed to pressure and told their greeters that they HAD to say Happy Holidays instead. My mother, who has been a Wal-Mart greeter for 10 years said that the employees really felt caught in the middle, especially when customers would tell them, Merry Christmas. Wal-Mart came back around from that and told the employers to use whatever greeting they felt comfortable with and the "problem" seemed to fade away. I think this is an issue where both sides are majoring in minors. I don't care what greeting someone uses as long as it is a nice one and expresses a positive sentiment. We have a lot more important issues to resolve in this world rather than this . . . Both sides need to just let it go.

[iamjoy]

45. Everyone Needs to Chill

I'm Jewish (actually, I'm more agnostic now, but anyway). I don't get offended when people say "Merry Christmas." It's no big deal - it's just a habit for them. Most people in this country are Christian. Christmas is a national holiday, so to me, saying "Merry Christmas" is just like saying "Happy Thanksgiving" (btw) or "Happy Valentine's Day"... you get the idea. A lot of people who aren't Christian (or are Christian the same way I'm Jewish) celebrate Christmas in a secular way rather than observing a religious holiday.

What does offend me is the insistence by religious groups that retailers use the word Christmas. It then moves from a habit, or means of inclusion into a deliberate attempt to either exclude non-believers or force non-believers to accept the holiday on their (the fundamentalist and evangelical) terms. I wonder why people who profess to deeply believe that Christmas is about the birth of their lord and savior want to promote the holy day as a secular and commercial observance.

Tell me "Merry Christmas" and I will thank you and wish it back to you. I believe you meant it in the spirit of shared humanity and inclusiveness. Insist on it being "Merry Christmas" and you're giving me cause to doubt to your motives.

[madfloridian]

51. I disagree. The religious right has made it an issue....I am just pointing it out.

It's like the religious right has made an issue of women's rights, gay rights, and yes, the Iraq War. Churches supporting wars? Holy wars?

I am pointing out that they are trying to control every aspect of our life using their religious views.

I am not the one putting the stores in a bad position. It is people like Dobson and Wildmon.

[prostock69]

53. Oooh, I so agree!

[JVS]

55. I think I'll just start saying "Have a good one"

[asthmaticeog]

47. Best Buy, Cabela's, Kohl's, Lowe's, Nordstrom, Pier 1, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart.

Best Buy, Cabela's, Kohl's, Lowe's, Nordstrom, Pier 1, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart.

Best Buy, Cabela's, Kohl's, Lowe's, Nordstrom, Pier 1, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart.

Best Buy, Cabela's, Kohl's, Lowe's, Nordstrom, Pier 1, Toys R Us and Wal-Mart.

I'm gonna memorize that list and not one of those stores gets a penny from me this year.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

50. On a side note.....

I live in a rural area, an hours drive from a metropolitan area. The closest large store is of course a WalMart, only two miles away. I have not been in there since mid-January last. I was going through the checkout and the cashier said to me, upon the completion of the transaction, "have a blessed day!" I promptly said, "What?" She repeated the phrase and I asked her what she meant by that. She said that it was in the spirit of the lord's message. I said "What?" She then stared at me, open mouthed and unsure of what to say next it seemed. I drove the short distance home and phoned back and asked for the manager. The manager said that some of her cashiers were zealous in their belief and that she had had several comments from people thanking her for comments from some of the cashiers. That did it. I have not been back in there since. It was the last straw, as if their import policies, slave labor manufacturing, and employee subjugation were not enough. I felt that even a simple commercial transaction was now under assault.

[madrchsod]

56. dobson and wildmon can go fuck themselves

jesus would kick their ass

[defendandprotect]

57. Dobson is over -- only idiots would cut Jews out of the buying at this time of year---

Only "Christians shop" ...???

No Hebrew needs a coat on sale?