Should Michael Vick ever play another down in the NFL?

[Missy Vixen]

I was sickened by the accounts of his behavior towards not only the pit bulls he abused, but his newly-disclosed use of household pets in a fighting ring, too.

I think he shouldn't play another down in the NFL.

What do you think?
Julie

[demnan]

1. It would make me sick to watch a game

with him in it.

[emilyg]

11. I would not watch a game with him in.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Cruelty to animals, such as he has repeatedly engaged in, is a serious, SERIOUS...

psychological problem.

[Ian David]

3. I think he should do color commentary for Animal Planet's Puppy Bowl.

[sasquatch]

4. I think he should have to play in the CFL

:D

[cobalt1999]

5. He can play, but most of his salary should go to help fund animal shelters as a condition.

Say 75% to 90% of his contract. That way he can work to help animal shelters that probably need more money in this recession.

[bkcc]

6. Should he? No.

Will he? Yes.

[natrat]

7. if i were on the opposing team i would try to cripple him

[HereSince1628]

10. Not pretty. n/t

[mitchum]

16. Perhaps, but not objectionable

[HereSince1628]

22. On blogs its hard to tell if someone is just mouthing off in an attempt to be funny

I'll leave it at that wasn't pretty.

[natrat]

106. not trying to be funny

[kiva]

54. Hell, if I were on HIS team I'd try to cripple him. n/t

[flvegan]

8. I'm torn.

I'd hate to see him make any kind of money again. He's talented, and I'm sure some pathetic team would sign him.

HOWEVER, the big fucking bullseye on him might be nice. Seeing some 275 lb lineman bury him time and time again in each game...late hits, unsportsmanlike conduct...probably a lot of guys in the game love their dogs.

I'd like to see Vick with a permanent limp, but I don't want him to get a pension for it.

[Missy Vixen]

49. This guy used to play for the Falcons when Vick was there

He now plays for the Seahawks. Considering the fact that Patrick Kerney's big yellow Lab, Rivers, is so important to him that there's been local press coverage on it, I wonder what he thought when and if he found out Vick was using household pets in the fighting ring as well.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/366739_moore12.html

Julie

[rucky]

9. Let's ask Pacman Jones...

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/11/welcome-back-pacman-jones.html

Welcome back, Pacman Jones
3:38 PM Mon, Nov 24, 2008

... If Pacman stays on the straight and narrow, swell. If he screws up, see ya later.

Greg Ellis and Terence Newman, a couple of the defense's most respected veterans, said they were happy to see Pacman and expect him to be welcomed back into the locker room with open arms.

But can the Cowboys count on Pacman?

"He's here today," Newman answered. "I count on him. Hes a good dude. Not all the situations have gone in his favor. He's really a good dude, so he's a good friend of mine and I always ride with him."

Said Ellis: "He gotta prove some things obviously. But he's going to be welcome here. I want him back on the team. Obviously Jerry does too. But time is the only thing that's going to make this better -- and good time, keeping your nose clean, doing the right things, making the right decisions, being in the right places at the right time and not at the wrong places at the wrong time kind of deal."

____________________________

http://bumpshack.com/2007/03/02/pacman-jones-criminal-record/

Here is a rap sheet look at all of Pacman’s brushes with the law since joining the NFL’s Tennessee Titans:

Photo: Pacman JonesJuly 13, 2005- Arrested and charged with assault and felony vandalism after a nightclub altercation. This began Pacman Jones NFL rap sheet. He already had a lengthy one from high school and college.

September 5, 2005- Adam was invited to attend the Nashville Sports Council Kickoff Luncheon. Jones went off on a verbal tirade while being told to wait for his car after the event. He then refused to tip the valet service.

October 2005- State of West Virginia filed a petition stating that Jones had not been contacting his probation officer and that he had not reported his July 2005 arrest. The judge extended the probation for just 90 days.

March 23, 2006- Charged with marijuana possession in Fayetteville, Georgia. He went on to claim that he knew how to beat the NFL’s drug test.

August 25, 2006- Arrested for disorderly conduct and public intoxication after being ordered by the cops to leave a Murfreesboro night club several times. Jones claimed a woman stole his wallet. The woman claimed that Jones spat on her. The judge in the case gave Pacman six months probation and told him to stay away from the club.

October 26, 2006- Jones was issued a citation for misdemeanor assault after a female student from Tennessee State University claimed that Jones spit in her face at a Nashville night club.

Feburary 19, 2007- The facts are disputed and no charges have been made yet, but Jones was in the middle of a fight and shooting at a strip club in Las Vegas that left one man paralyzed and two more wounded. The fight broke out after Jones showered strippers on stage with $81,000 dollars. The club owner claims Jones was beating a strippers head against the bar while claiming to kill one of the club’s employees.

January 3, 2008- Pacman is accused of punching Wanda S. Jackson in the face at an Atlanta strip club called the Body Tap Strip Club. Jackson says Jones reached over the counter and sucker punched her in her left eye.

October 8, 2008- Jones got into an alcohol related incident which turned into a physical confrontation with bodyguards that had been assigned to him by the Dallas Cowboys. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has suspended Jones indefinitely for the second time in his NFL career.

The above time line doesn’t include his sentence of one year in prison for a bar fight in Morgantown, West Virginia while in college. The sentence was later suspended in exchange for two years of probation (because he is a really good football player).

[Lucky 13]

12. Once the man has paid his debt to society, there is no reason to prevent him from working.

What he did was awful and he was punished. He lost everything. I believe he has learned his lesson and more importantly, served as an example to others of what you have to lose by conducting criminal acts of violence against animals.

But Michael doesn't deserve to have the entire rest of his life ruined over this - especially if he's willing to work with PETA/SPCA/HSUS on animal rights issues.

I believe in redemption and think it would be a terrible waste if he wasn't allowed to play again.

[hlthe2b]

14. I'd like to know what evidence there is that "he has learned his

lesson." Seriously and sincerely.... What evidence exists?


He has never apologized-- as far as I know-- for what he did to those poor dogs. He might have apologized for the effect it had on his career, and on others, but not a lick of remorse for the horrendous torturous deaths he caused to occur-- for his own entertainment.

What evidence is there that he has learned his lesson?...........

[mitchum]

19. But is playing a game really "working"?

Are children "working" when they play London Bridge and Red Rover? Y'know, games like that. And football.

[Lucky 13]

66. Ask an ex-NFL player in his 50s if football was work.

His body will tell you it was.

[Thothmes]

103. Yes, it is in the NFL or any other pro sport

you do not sit on your butt and show up on game day. Is acting work, is ballet work, Yes. If you earn your living as a pro in any of those activites, you have to work very hard to earn a steady paycheck. Those that do not work hard, soon find themselves flipping hamburgers. JMO

[sellitman]

29. Bingo.

You just saved my thumbs a whole lot of typing.

Never means there is never a chance of redemption.

[donco6]

13. Won't watch him even if he does.

Which he probably will. NFL players can do anything, and they know it.

[greguganus]

15. I voted for the first choice, but is there any more info on the baby dingbat? n/t

[Missy Vixen]

51. There was a thread on this in the lounge yesterday

The proud papa-to-be posted a nice ultrasound... :woohoo:

Congratulations to Robb and Mrs. Robb! I am so excited for them!
Julie

[BlooInBloo]

17. I don't think anyone committing a crime should ever be employed ever again by anybody....

Because to do so would clearly show that one supports crime, and hates the victims.

[IndianaJones]

33. not only that..they should be permanently mangled in some manner. nt.

[MyNameGoesHere]

105. I am not sure if this is sarcasm. Hopefully.. or true feelings

If it sarcasm, I get it. If it is not, go get help.

[loyalkydem]

18. Look people

The man made a mistake, yes. He's been punished for it. He's being punished for it right now. The lost of his reputation, his image. That's damning to a professional football player. Are you going to punish the man for the rest of his life? Come on, politicians get better love than this guy.

Yes what he did was appalling, but the time has come to let the man get on with his left.

[BOSSHOG]

21. I agree with your sentiment

but do you mean an NFL team HAS to hire him? I think that should be the question. Will the commissioner assign a team to have him join? I'd leave that up to the team owners and let them succeed or suffer with the choice. I think he is radioactive right now. Give me a team which would benefit from hiring him.

[rucky]

27. Pacman Jones was just reinstated.

His rap sheet is a mile long.

I'm not saying it's okay. I'd just like to know what the standards are.
:shrug:

[BOSSHOG]

28. Would that not be Apples and Puppys?

The standards are whatever an owner thinks his investment can stand. Per Vick, does an owner want PETA and demonstrations outside every home game? If I owned a team, I'd check out what the market had to offer relative to QB's. Vick ain't the be all and end all of Offensive fire power.

[hlthe2b]

24. If a politician put dogs in a pit (including HOUSE PETS) to rip

each other to death for his own entertainment or financial gain, I'd be ready to throw away the jail key on them as well. Come on, give him a little love? Good God, no. I hope his life is full of torment, frankly. I believe in redemption, but have seen NOTHING from him that suggests any level of real remorse. I don't think it is in him to feel contrite because he thinks so little for the lives of these poor animals and conversely so self-important. You want to reward THAT by defending his return to NFL? NO, absolutely not. I hope the team that does take him back has a decade or more of the worst ticket receipts and lost profits imaginable. I hope it translates throughout the league.

Violence against people is horrendous.
Cruelty and torture towards animals, is no less so.

That is a lesson that needs to be driven home.

[pecwae]

36. What a great post.

"Violence against people is horrendous.
Cruelty and torture towards animals, is no less so."

That quote bears repeating, repeating, repeating. Thank you.

[Captain Hilts]

30. "Mistake?" Over YEARS? Tossing family pets into the ring? Forgetting to ...

feed the meter is a 'mistake'. This is much more than a "mistake."

[Skittles]

53. a mistake is one thing

systematic torture of animals for entertainment is another - I hope he rots in hell

[Ex Lurker]

55. the government is constrained from punishing him beyond his sentence

as private citizens we're free to hold him in contempt for all eternity if we so choose.

[4 t 4]

65. This is Not A Mistake, A mistake

is like saying the wrong thing, or buying the wrong size, or doing something you really felt not quite right about. This is mean and cruel and not acceptable. Did you know that he use to sometimes throw the "Family Pet" in for fun? This is criminal to say the least.

[AZBlue]

90. So maybe we shouldn't give him a pass but instead stop giving others a pass?

Instead of lessening the effect on Vick, why not hold others to the same standard?

[abbeyco]

20. Not only NO, but HELL NO!!! n/t

[4lbs]

23. Let him play Arena League Football. His athletic talents would still be useful there.

n/t

[slackmaster]

25. Michael Vick isn't fit to clean toilets at NFL games

:nuke:

[Paladin]

80. Always A Pleasure To Agree With You, Slack..... (n/t)

[Sanctified]

26. Because dog fighting has exactly what to do with football?

I can understand not wanting a pedophile to get out of prison and become a kindergarten teacher but dog fighting and football really have nothing in common. If a plumber did time for dog fighting should they be prevented from being a plumber when they get out.

To me it sounds like you just want revenge on top of the debt he is already paying to society and really that is wrong.

[hlthe2b]

31. Sure, he'll make every bit the sports hero to be emulated by

our Nation's kids as we could ever want or desire. Let's hear it for the NFL's leading Animal Torturer. Kids, he's aces in animal cruelty. You too can grow up to be a sports hero just like Vick! :sarcasm:

[Sanctified]

37. Do you hold the same standards for everyone convicted of a crime?

Should a person convicted of drugs or insider trading be prevented from going back into their profession if they may be considered a "role model"?

[hlthe2b]

42. Depends... Many learn from their mistakes and become

tremendous role models as a result. Others never show the least bit of contrition, but simply blame others for what happened. They feel self-entitled to resume the life they had and resent everyone for their "personal loss." And, some, never believe their crimes are crimes because they have no respect for the lives of others, including those of animals they sent to horrendous tortured deaths for their own amusement.

[Captain Hilts]

32. Cruelty to animals is a BIG warning sign to psychologists of...

violent behavior that often spreads to other targets.

[Sanctified]

34. Ok so instead of preventing him from playing football why not just never let him out of prison?

I mean if he is that dangerous why would anyone want him in public period.

[hlthe2b]

35. Works for me...

[Sanctified]

39. So you believe that certain people are beyond redemption?

That is sad.

[hlthe2b]

40. That was not what I said, nor the question asked...

That you jump to such conclusions in a half baked effort to be sanctimonious and despite the fact you are defending animal torture-- now THAT is what is sad.

As to redemption see my posts upstream. I have seen NO evidence he has truly expressed contrition nor has moved in any way towards redempton. He certainly does feel very sorry for himself, however.

[Sanctified]

44. Not defending animal torture just a human right to exist in society.

I believe no one is past redemption and no one can ever tell if someone is truly sorry for a crime they committed. I don't believe anyone needs to come out groveling on the ground to satisfy societies morbid lust for morale superiority of others.

[hlthe2b]

46. We have to judge contrition all the time and society does require

some evidence of redemption routinely--for pardons, parole, or even inter-personal forgiveness. After what VIck did, I just don't know how you can state that you "don't believe anyone needs to come out groveling on the ground to satisfy society's (sic) morbid lust for moral (sic) superiority over (sic) others"... A little groveling on Vick's part would hardly be an unfair trade for the cruel acts he committed.

[petronius]

68. FYI, your grammatical snark would be more effective if you knew the correct usage of "sic" (nt)

[hlthe2b]

85. ....

not snark, just using it as a common signal that there was a correction made to the quote. I used parentheses rather than brackets, only because I have a stuck key on my laptop...Other than that aspect of my use, please do enlighten me...


****
There is a helpful article on the use of sic in A Dictionary of Modern American Usage by Bryan A. Garner (OUP 1998).

sic Sic (=thus, so), invariably bracketed and usually set in italics, is used to indicate that a preceding word or phrase in a quoted passage is reproduced as it appeared in the original passage. Sic at its best is intended to aid readers who might be confused about whether the quoter or the quoted writer is responsible for the spelling or grammatical anomaly.

You should therefore position straight after the error to which it refers: if a misspelling, after the word concerned; otherwise after the phrase.
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/usage/sic

[petronius]

89. You use "sic" if you have reproduced the error in the original quote - the

purpose is to let the reader know that the mistake is in the original, not the transcription. You corrected the mistakes, so "sic" is not appropriate; it appeared to me that you were calling-out the original poster.

In my opinion, commenting on or ostentatiously pointing out grammatical errors (unless they lead to confusion) on a forum like this is rude and unnecessary. If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize for calling you a snarker...

:hi:

[hlthe2b]

92. That was not my intention.

I actually believe I corrected only one mistake, rather than including it verbatum and that was accidental. I simply meant to reproduce the quote without conveying the impression that I was inserting errors to embarrass. I agree with your issue about rudely pointing out grammatical, typos, or spelling errors. I was actually trying to avoid that...

[Ex Lurker]

56. I cetainly believe that...

does Vick fall into that category? I don't know yet. But there are definitely people who do. To think otherwise is naive.

[Captain Hilts]

41. Actually, I want to see evidence that he has been in counselling and will continue to do so...

before he is left completely free.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Actually, I want to see evidence that he has been in counselling and will continue to do so...

before he is left to his own recognizance.

[WI_DEM]

38. My personal opinion is No, but he will be. Athletes are often exempted

(even in high school) from things which would be detrimental toward anybody else.

[DefenseLawyer]

45. Write your congressman

and demand the death penalty for Conspiracy to Commit Interstate Gambling and Interstate Dogfighting and then stand in line for your chance to flip the switch on the next guy, as some of you seem eager to do. Beyond that I suggest you let it go. The penalties for the crimes for which he plead guilty were already established before Michael Vick's conviction and they have remained in place after. He was sentenced within those penalties and is serving his time. Once someone has served his time under the penalties that our laws provide, that's it. If you don't like it, write your congressman. Don't try to impose your own life sentence of the guy. You don't have to like him, you don't have to like the NFL and you can protest any team that chooses to give him a job to your heart's content, but you have no right to demand that a man can't earn a living once he has paid his debt; and the law decides what that debt is. Not you.

[hlthe2b]

47. Congratulations! The most over-the--top insane post, yet....

I have seen NO posts demanding the death penalty or anything approaching. But, your ridiculous hyperbole will be sure to amuse...:eyes:

[woolldog]

50. I thought DefenseLawyer's post was great.

He was exaggerating to make a point.

[Missy Vixen]

58. I'm so glad you responded

Of course I enjoyed the over-the-top denouncement of what is, ultimately, a fairly prevailing attitude about Mr. Vick and his criminal activities. BTW, I'm a death penalty opponent, so "flipping the switch" wouldn't be quite so attractive to me. Nice try, though.

>but you have no right to demand that a man can't earn a living once he has paid his debt; and the law decides what that debt is. Not you.<

You know something? I have just as much right to voice my opinion as anyone else who's watched Roger Goodell pick and choose whom he goes after for whatever his latest hot button is re: NFL player behavior. Michael Vick may be "free to earn a living", but frankly, he doesn't need to make a living in the NFL. Pro football players are still considered role models in the community. The vast majority of people do not condone the mistreatment and torture of animals. For that reason alone, he should never step foot in a NFL stadium again.

Nobody's attempting to prevent Mr. Vick from earning a living. Let him go out and get a job selling cars or whatever he chooses to do. Allowing him to continue his pro football career not only makes a mockery out of the NFL's "player conduct policy", they give approval to dog fighting and the torture of animals in the name of entertainment. If the league wants to endorse this, hell, it's up to them. They might want to consider the fact, though, that he will make any team he plays for radioactive at best.

Julie

[woolldog]

48. I don't see why not?

His dogfighting conviction has nothing to do with football.

[Missy Vixen]

60. It may have "nothing to do with football", but he and other

NFL players are required to exhibit off-field behavior acceptable to the community. I believe this is also part of their contracts with various teams. It's also been addressed by the NFL commissioner.

Julie

[woolldog]

63. After he gets out of prison,

he's paid his debt to society as far as I'm concerned.

I don't have any desire to take away someone's livelihood because of dogfighting, unless s/he works with animals for a living.

[Qibing Zero]

52. We like to think we're not like ancient Rome with our entertainment

Simply because we treat the athletes like royalty, and all. But really it's not true, and if Vick wants to play again someone will hire him. If he's as good as he was he'll get the money he was getting as well. It's a profit based industry, and why have second thoughts about investing in Vick when you're currently invested in many of the corporations that indulge in slave labor practices in third world countries anyhow?

Well, the point would stand that it's a much bigger PR hit than personal finances are. That's the big issue for them. Morally, I'm sure they wouldn't think twice.


I like the 'people can change, so let him have another shot when he's done with his jail time' angle, but I really don't think he'll truly come to terms with how terrible what he was doing was until he gets a bit more help than just a bit of time in jail (if you can call that help at all).

[Missy Vixen]

59. The Raiders have sent up a couple of trial balloons over the past few weeks

re: bringing Vick back. It hasn't been received well.

"People can change"? Vick's never expressed the slightest remorse for what he did. He's sad he got caught.

One of the Seahawks got busted on a DV charge last summer. He hasn't expressed any remorse, either. He's a free agent at the end of the season, and I'm hoping they'll trade his ass. I love football, but I don't applaud batterers.

Julie

[trollybob]

57. Since when does the NFL care about whether a player has a criminal record

witness about half the roster of the Cincinnati Bengals, etc.

[Missy Vixen]

61. Look at their record

Then again, we live in Seattle. We trade the bad apples elsewhere.

Julie

[Taverner]

62. Look he's a football player, not a senator

Call me insensitive but although he's a jerk and an asshole, that doesn't preclude him from playing.

Now dogfighting, I say if he gets caught again, life in prison.

[EFerrari]

64. He should be in jail, not playing football.

Do we really need "men" like him to admire?

[jeffrey_X]

74. HE IS IN JAIL RIGHT NOW

I don't admire a lot of the guys playing football right now....your post makes no sense.

[EFerrari]

75. He belongs in jail, not wearing a team uniform that people cheer for.

[jeffrey_X]

88. So he should be serving life in prison?

Is that what you are saying?

[EFerrari]

93. Do I get to decide?

I don't care where he spends the rest of his fucked up life. But a suspended sentence for what he did is ridiculous.

[Kickin_Donkey]

67. Sure, why not ...

If he's done his time, why shouldn't he be allowed to pursue his profession?

[JCMach1]

69. Since when is the NFL the moral arbiter for the nation...?

What he did was wrong... no doubt... However, the amount of venom I have seen is well... over the top...

If he does his time and can still play, let the Raiders give him a try-out...

He's a QB! He's not up for canonization...

There were several players over the years who had horrible domestic abuse cases against them and never missed a snap. College AND Pro.

Apparently you can drag your girlfriend backwards down the stairs by her hair... that's okay...

But fight dogs...!

Here's to hypocrisy!

[Missy Vixen]

81. Perhaps you should take a look at Goodell's "player conduct policy"

This isn't the '80's Oakland Raiders anymore.

>There were several players over the years who had horrible domestic abuse cases against them and never missed a snap. College AND Pro.

The only teams willing to accept players with criminal backgrounds at this point, especially DV arrests and convictions, are (still) the Raiders and the Cowboys. Everyone else trades or cuts them as quickly as possible. There were also multiple college players washing out of the draft this year due to their criminal records.

Considering the fact that there are 45 million female NFL fans in the United States, in some ways, the league has been forced to clean things up. Chicks don't cheer for guys on Sunday afternoon who've been beating the crap out of their significant other on Saturday night, and right now, women are driving the financial bus of the NFL.

Here's a question: How many women would be buying a Michael Vick jersey if he is reinstated?

Julie

[Hubert Flottz]

70. After he does 4 tours in Iraq...

[michreject]

71. Michael Vick should be reinstated

He does his time, gets released and moves on with his life.

[RiverStone]

84. Pedophiles and rapists do their time too...but it's more than just "time"

I don't begrudge the man a chance to make a living, but just as sex offenders can't ever work around children or in schools --- so should criminals who commit senseless acts of animal abuse ever be allowed the very unique privilege of playing in the NFL.

People who suffer under the hand of cruelty and abuse have life long consequences - those who perpetrate acts of violence can't just brush it under the carpet, but they try.

NFL players are role models. What would it say if we let this prick return? Vick returning the NFL would be a PR disaster and he does not deserve it!

[michreject]

101. People who molest children

aren't allowed to work around children, ergo people who abuse animals shouldn't be able to work around animals.

How did you make the transition to animals and the NFL?

Your reasoning is flawed.

[nc4bo]

72. Since he'd have paid his debt to society for breaking its laws.....

we can't really stop anyone from returning to their former life but, Vick should use some of his $$ to support a few no-kill shelters or sponser animal adoption/spay-neuter programs.

I just think it'd be the right thing for him to do and would probably make him more likable in the pubic eye.

[jeffrey_X]

73. Leonard Little killed someone by drunk driving and is still playing

If he can play, then vick should be able to play again.

[Blue_Tires]

97. thanks...i was waiting to see if someone would bring this up...

in recent years, pro and college sports in America have had multiple drug use offenders, multiple drunk drivers, cheaters, gambling addicts, bush voters, point shavers, drug dealers, burglars, shoplifters, rapists, accessories to murder, fighters-in-da-club, woman beaters, tax cheats, shady business ventures, jakers, and general fuckwittery -- ALL have been allowed to play or coach their respective sports...

when this story first broke, i was hoping people would use this opportunity to kick over an ugly, not-talked-about stone in our national subculture and shine a light on how widespread and accepted it is in a LOT of communities...instead more and more people are thinking keeping vick in jail or out of football alone will eradicate the dogfighting industry...

[hlthe2b]

100. Negligent Vehicular Manslaughter due to drunk driving is abhorrent...

I am, however, assuming this player did not set out to kill this woman, which differentiates it from murder. As abysmal as the action, his intent was not to kill.

While some may equate animal life at a very low level compared to humans, the fact is that Vick set out to inflict torturous pain and death on these animals for his own amusement. That WAS his intent. It was not, in any way, accidental.

Damned right, there is a difference.

Perhaps Little should not be returned to NFL either. That is a separate question. There is no equivalency.

[opihimoimoi]

76. At a time of declining numbers,,,team owners may not want bad press

sure to follow a contract....

[robcon]

77. He'll be back, I hope.

Of course he can get any employment he wants. He will have paid the 'debt' he owes to society when he finishes his term in jail.

He can get any employment he wants after that, and there's no reason why he couldn't be a football player again.

[kenny blankenship]

78. Scum will support scum. If the NFL wants to disclose that their true nature is akin to his

they should go right ahead and reinstate him.

[iamincali83]

79. That bastard should never be allowed to play in the NFL again!

If he does come back I hope he gets injured and his career comes to an end! I don't care if that sounds mean what kinda of sick fuck allows dog fighting in his house?? :mad:

[gizmo1979]

82. The man has a right to work.

He has to make a living,and football is what he is qualified to do.Once he has paid his debt he has the right to make a living.

[hlthe2b]

86. He has a right to live too...

I hope he moves in right next door to you....I'm sure you wouldn't mind living next to an animal torturer, though the screams of dying animals might become annoying late at night, doncha think? :eyes:

[gizmo1979]

107. Yes he does have the right to live next door.

I have no say in who moves where and neither do you.I believe his dog owning days are over anyhow.

[Canuckistanian]

83. Give someone else a chance. He blew his.

Because like it or not, sports heroes are role models. And the NFL actively promotes that ideal.

Inviting Vick back would send the wrong message.

[High Plains]

87. DU's unslakable thirst for vengeance on display once again.

This guy has been sentenced. When he gets out, he will by definition have served his debt to society.

But that's not good enough for DU. He must be stomped on and left impoverished for the rest of his life, if not tortured or executed. Wow, good thing this isn't a reactionary board.

[GOPisEvil]

91. Fucking please.

Of course he should have the opportunity to play again.

Did he do despicable things? Yes. He's paying the price for that, and he should be allowed to pursue his chosen occupation once his debt has been paid.

Leonard Little of the St. Louis Rams KILLED A WOMAN while driving drunk and he's still in the league. If he gets to play, Vick should get to play.

[cherokeeprogressive]

94. I often read here sentiments to the effect that whan a person has done their time...

they've done their time. I hear it about murderers, rapists, and molesters.

If he's done his time, he should even get to vote.

[EFerrari]

95. I'm usually on the other side of these debates and I realized

that it's because pro ball players seem to get a different kind of "justice" than most people. Sort of like white collar criminals. It may not even be strictly true, but that is the impression I have anyway. And it makes me angry that after doing something so horrible, the guy gets a suspended sentence.

/oops

[cherokeeprogressive]

96. To me it doesn't really matter what profession, people with money get the kind of

justice you describe. I didn't say I agree with the notion that everyone can be rehabilitated, I just see that sentiment or something like it here on DU quite often.

Remember the lady from Bishop, CA? If I remember correctly, her name was Nellie Orr. She took a gun into the courtroom and killed the guy who had molested her son multiple times. I remember thinking at the time that I would have done the same and gladly suffered the punishment had my daughter been in the same situation. Nellie Orr got justice for her son. I bet he thinks she's da bomb.

That's kinda where I come down on things like crime and appropriate punishment. Some things are inexcusable and should disqualify you from participation in civilized society.

[hlthe2b]

98. Some here jump to the conclusion that many DUers do not favor

rehabilitation... I think that is a real leap since it assumes that Vick is amenable to rehabilitation. He certainly might be, but I haven't heard him express acceptance that what he did was so immensely wrong, nor express contrition for the pain and suffering he brought to these poor animals in his charge (expressing regret for the effect of his actions on his own career or on others dependant on that career does not count). It seems to me that rehabilitation does rely on taking responsibility and being amenable to change. Whether he falls in that category is a big question mark to me and to others.

[hlthe2b]

99. Of those to whom much is given, much is required. ...JFK

Vick was blessed with incredible gifts and talent, as are all that play in professional sports. Our kids look up to them as role models. Yes, much is expected in return as evidenced by the code of conduct for these athletes. He violated that code in the worst possible way. It wasn't an accident--not even a drunken accident or some momentary drug enhanced act of stupidity. It was intentional animal torture for his own amusement and profit.

Of those to whom much is given, much is required. ...John F. Kennedy.

[greguganus]

102. If he does, I hope to be at the games throwing dog biscuits at him. n/t

[Thothmes]

104. voted for reinstatement

Having said that, the league has a justifiable reason for not reinstating Vick. He sat in the Commissioners officer and told a bald face lie to the Commissioner when he was asked about his involvement in the dog fighting operation. If the league refuses to reinstate him on these ground, I think that is reasonable. To not reinstate him because he did time, or because he was involved in dog fighting are not solid reasons to disbarment from the game, considering some of the players backgrounds that are or have played for the NFL. JMO