The Domestic Auto industry

[DainBramaged]

Employs 2.95 Million people among all facets of the industry

2 million of these workers receive health care benefits

The American repeat AMERICAN auto industry provides one out of every ten jobs in this country.

Over $24.7 Billion has been paid by these workers in income tax this year

Over $21 billion has been deposited into Social Security

$12 billion dollars has been spent this year on R&D alone.

Yet the "stock market and banks" get whatever money they need from the Government, and my industry can't get a loan to get over the hump.

The sad thing is, when WE start producing the right cars with the best technology, so few of you will buy our cars it won't matter, because your bias will come into play.

he UAW and all Unions involved in the DOMESTIC auto industry will stand strong against all attacks and threats to the American Dream by interlopers and Fascists.


Happy Thanksgiving.

[JuniperLea]

1. I will gladly buy an American car

If I can afford one when this one drops.

My concern is the auto industry appears to be gearing up to dump the unions regardless. I keep reading that they are presenting union cuts as part of their solution. The fact they talk around the RW talking point of autoworkers making $75 an hour is disturbing. It's my understanding that this figure is a total compensation figure, which includes health care expenses.

If we fix health care first, a lot of other things will fall naturally into place. I'm convinced.

[bain_sidhe]

2. My next car:

The Ford Escape Hybrid



Want.

Of course, I have to wait until they've been out for a while, so I can buy a used one. I never, ever buy new.

Although, I might make an exception...

[DainBramaged]

20. The Saturn Vue Hybrid is another great choice

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/greenline/index.jsp?seo=goo_|_2008_Saturn_Retention_|_IMG_Saturn_VUE_Hybrid_|_VUE_Hybrid_HV_|_saturn_vue_hybrid

[bain_sidhe]

36. not bad looking

but I like to ride a little higher... that's why I got my Tracker instead of a "car" car. (Well, that and having to cart the dogs around). I get very nervous driving when I can't see what's up ahead, and with so many SUVs and trucks on the road, a low-slung car won't do it. If we see a real reduction in those kinds of vehicles on the road, I'd look at a Vue. I'm waiting for the plug-in model in any case, and I really want one that runs on the batteries first, although I wouldn't turn down one that uses fuel for a power assist for passing and the like. But most of my travel (except for visiting my folks a few times a year) is within the 30-mile range that batteries are generally expected to cover. And if (in an ideal world) I can recharge it with solar panels on the garage roof, I can run all my errands for free! (well, except for maintenance costs.)

**edit to add, I'm really, really watching the development of the Volt, too...**

[CRF450]

3. It'd be stupid to say that I did my part in helping out.

Since both my demostic vehicles are used. My next purchase will be brand new, but I dont know when that will be. I'd sure like to have the new Camaro but the best I would be able to afford is the base v6 model.

[DainBramaged]

4. The V6 kicks ass and eats horses and rice for lunch

306 HP, 0-60 under 6 seconds, 25+ MPG combined. LOTS of trick parts coming too.

[bain_sidhe]

6. What V6?

What manufacturer/model are you talking about here?

**edit... oh, I see above that you must be talking about the Camaro. Sorry**

I used to be of the opinion that Chrysler made the best engines, but no more...

(note, before you get all car-wonky on me, I'm really not a gear head. I just LOVED my first car, an old Dodge Polara with a 318 that never, ever quit. Never. Sold it running (i.e., for transportation, not for parts) at about 18 years old.

[CRF450]

25. The Hemi's were good back in the day, but I think they're over-rated now.

GM makes the best v8's now with their LSx line of engines. The 6.2L 430hp LS3 in the Corvettes (they are going in the Camaro) are beasts and pretty dang efficient for a powerful engine. Literally, the new Vettes get 30mpg easy on the highway and interstates. GM has perfected the pushrod v8.

[DainBramaged]

29. Chrysler just needs to go away, except for Jeep, just dumb

NO ONE I know owns a Chrysler, NO ONE. NO ONE buys a rear-wheel drive car in the Northeast unless it's a Cadillac, BMW or Mercedes Benz.

[CRF450]

31. I agree although the only Dodge I like is the Dakota's since I own one.

Other than that everything else from Chrysler is crap to me.

[CRF450]

21. It wont hang with my car, but these things are running in LT1 territory

Which is pretty awesome for a base model Camaro. The great thing is, it'll be built better than my Trans Am, and it'll handle better.

[DainBramaged]

24. I'll get to drive one as soon as they come out. I cannot wait.

Or as soon as the come off the line. I already told the boss to order extra tires to replace the rears on the first one because they will be gumballs quick. :hi:

[bain_sidhe]

7. sure you did...

helped establish the market for used domestically-manufactured vehicles.

[CRF450]

22. Thats still not helping the automakers.

[bain_sidhe]

35. Well, people DO look at the resale/trade-in value

when choosing a new car, don't they?

[Patsy Stone]

15. The delightfully yummy 2009 Dodge Challenger.

http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/

[DainBramaged]

17. Yes, and a Hurst edition is forthcoming too.

The basis for the special is an SRT8 model, which Hurst, through participating Dodge dealerships, can take to 500bhp depending on which of the four performance packages a customer chooses. A Hurst pistol-grip shifter is also included, as well as branded wheels, gold stripes and Hurst logos

[Patsy Stone]

18. I will take

half a dozen. :)

:hi: and Happy Thanksgiving!

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. I really have a problem with gas powered 500 horsepower cars now

It sure would look good 30 years ago or the last century.

But it doesn't even look modern now.

[DainBramaged]

28. Well, what do you say about the folks who are restoring and driving the

60's Muscle Cars? Are they excessive too??

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. I live where they are cared for and restored

And I've never seen the beauties that I have out in California.
My neighbors have many classics in their garages that they
drive out on Sunday. You would drool at them, I do!

Nothing wrong with preserving history,
but it is history and not the future, and we
see the future out here too.

[CRF450]

23. No thanks.

It looks good from the outside but thats it.

Interior is ugly and the same as the Chargers.
It handles like crap being that its the same thing as a Charger
Its a heavy pig
The HEMI is over-rated and not as efficient as the GM LSx v8 engines
Oh, its WAY over-priced too.

[Median Democrat]

5. The American Auto Industry Should Shed Several Brands

The auto industry needs to take a real hard look at what brands simply do not sell or are obscolete. For example, here is a list of the top selling automobiles in the U.S.

RANK VEHICLE 2008 2007 '07 RANK %Chng
1 Ford F-Series P/U 235,924 290,282 1 -18.7
2 Toyota Camry 198,309 193,900 3 +2.3
3 Chevy Silverado-C/K P/U 197,030 265,941 2 -25.9
4 Honda Accord 166,158 153,431 6 +8.3
5 Honda Civic 164,994 137,288 8 +20.2
6 Toyota Corolla 152,308 165,722 4 -8.1
7 Nissan Altima 133,465 114,318 9 +16.7
8 Chevrolet Impala 122,281 144,541 7 -15.4
9 Dodge Ram P/U 112,795 154,143 5 -26.8
10 Ford Focus 105,499 77,732 15 +35.7
11 Chevrolet Cobalt 93,362 79,257 14 +17.8
12 Honda CR-V 89,017 84,464 11 +5.4
13 Toyota Prius 79,675 76,747 16 +3.8
14 Ford Escape 76,966 73,058 17 +5.3
15 Chevrolet Malibu 74,925 59,627 26 +25.7
16 Ford Fusion 73,197 66,260 20 +10.5
17 GM Pontiac G6 71,062 59,063 28 +20.3
18 GMC Sierra P/U 70,765 84,106 12 -15.9
19 Toyota Tundra 66,278 61,113 23 +8.5
20 Ford Econoline/Club Wagon 63,869 80,641 13 -20.8

I don't see a single Oldsmobile, and would argue that the name itself turns people off. Anyone on this board buy an Oldsmobile in the past five years? GM maintains a large number of brands, and you have to wonder why it is necessary to have competing Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Cadillac brands all under the GM roof. I don't see foreign car companies doing the same thing, except to have a base brand (Toyota) and a luxury line (Lexus).

I know a lot of Republicans love to blame union pensions for GM's problems, but when I buy a car, I don't care squat about what their workers' pensions. I just want a solid car, and the dizzying number of brands is confusing. I prefer Ford in that there are different models, but just one car company.

[gizmo1979]

10. Didn't they deep six olds?

quite a while ago I think.

[DainBramaged]

12. Oldsmobile has been gone nearly FIVE years now

GM needs to shed Saturn, Buick and GMC.

[Median Democrat]

14. Ah, I Was Wondering Why Its Still Listed On GM's Website

It must just be for warranty.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/

[DainBramaged]

16. Not listed, we only make parts, no warranties apply any longer

http://www.gm.com/vehicles/


http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/electric/

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. K&R!

:thumbsup:

[trof]

9. Not so much our bias as our pocketbooks.

Last year, back when I could still afford it (sorta), I bought a Prius.
If an American manufacturer had offered something similar I would have certainly preferred it.
Now we're too broke to buy anything.

[catnhatnh]

11. One of your claims are grossly inflated and deceptive...

...The American repeat AMERICAN auto industry provides one out of every ten jobs in this country.


...which would indicate more than 10 million jobs directly dependent on U.S. produced cars.... The 10% figure includes auto sales and repair facilities. It also includes car washes and parking lots. It includes car rental agencies and it includes people who valet park cars...It includes route salesman and machinists and counter workers at auto parts stores...

But of course, other than the 3 million more or less directly tied in your first claim, the OTHER 7 million would hardly be affected at all were all vehicles foreign produced. There would still be as many vehicles to maintain and park and service and rent.

I support the Bailout of the Big Three with the proviso that CAFE standards are raised and executive compensation is curtailed. But we get there by telling the real facts-and I want them hair, tooth, and asshole.
I want them saved WITH unions because without them they are worthless-the union is the ONLY pertinent distinction between place of manufacture. Many Foreign manufacturers offer decent jobs here and name badges do not impress me. All Detroit offers me is the germ of a dream that unions can survive. Kill that and corporate America can fuck off.

[DainBramaged]

13. Grossly inflate this.

"click"

BuhBye.

[catnhatnh]

19. Yep-that negates my post...

You remind me about the folk parables of snakes and scorpions: in spite of the fact my entire post supports unions, you felt the need to slam me. Well, I've seen you on the board before and had my doubts about some of your postings. But since it appears to be your desire, I will continue to support unions as I have all my life, But will not reply your posts. If you support unions there is no reason to be disrespectful to union supporters. There are names for that but forum rules prevent me from specifying them. But go ahead and guess which ones I'd use. You'll be at least partially correct, for once.

[pampango]

32. Makes you wonder if DB read your entire post or just reacted to the first line.

It is sad when discussion here ends and devolves into "I'm right and you're wrong" or something equivalent. (Maybe I will start using a new acronym for that - IRAYW - and end all DU discussions with that. Walk away on a high note like George Costanza always wanted to do. :)

[DainBramaged]

33. Sad when people who don't have access to the figures think they are right

I have given up having patience in this fight. And yes, I am right.

[pampango]

34. IRAYW, baby! n/t

[Fovea]

26. I will gladly ride a GM bus

or a Ford High Speed train.
I ride an American made bicycle, that's rare these days.

[we can do it]

41. MeToo- Canondale

[Fovea]

46. Lightning Cycle Dyanmics

Out of Lompoc California.

[StreetKnowledge]

37. Proud owner of a Domestic

OK, well, it's a domestic brand, but its made in Australia.

http://image.motortrend.com/f/miscellaneous/pontiac-g8-what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been/8172703+w700+cr1+re0+ar1/2008-pontiac-g8-gt.jpg

This one isn't my car, but its identical to my car. :) I LOVE it. :D

Imports? Pffft........:D

[DainBramaged]

38. Oh you suck, a G8, I am not worthy, I am not worthy

:hi:

[pa28]

39. Seems strange doesn't it?

Henry Paulson looks like a hyperactive waiter shoveling the last crumbs in the treasury at banks and the street. 700B plus several Trillion in backstops yet none for a tangible industry that is our remaining industrial backbone.

I'm starting to believe the gov delay is their way of saying they want a BK reorganization and perhaps will offer aid after that - after the courts give you the United Airlines treatment. Would Democrats the UAW helped elect sell them down the river that way? I guess we'll see.

[PassingFair]

40. If Americans felt that their jobs were secure we would be buying cars.

American built and imports.

Save the Jobs.

:fistbump:

[DainBramaged]

42. Let's keep it going today, shall we???

[bain_sidhe]

43. What, the thread?

First thing I checked when I came in... As a Michigan resident, I'm very interested in how "our" auto industry does.

Most "experts" have already noted that Detroit's quality is way up. Even Consumer Reports, long a bastion of anti-domestic sentiment, has finally conceded that many of Detroit's offerings are equal to (or in some cases, better than) foreign-company cars (many of which are assembled here, but the profit still goes back to foreign countries, so I call them foreign).

But here? "Middle America" doesn't seem to have gotten the message. Or if they did, they think those "experts" are lying.

**edited for typo**

[DainBramaged]

44. Those of us in the Domestic Auto industry might as well be Freepers here

we are treated like shit.

[DainBramaged]

45. You are going to read this if it kills you.

[Mike 03]

47. Your posts are turning into a kind of torture.

I wish you could talk or maybe have someone else representing the union come here to talk. Your posts are just like getting a baton shoved up my ass. I can barely even click on them anymore.

On Edit: No offense, I respect your drive and stubborness, but this is just getting so ridiculous and draining. What do you want us at DU to do about the auto union workers problems?

We have problems too.

[DainBramaged]

48. Nothing absolutely nothing

DU and the membership is POWERLESS to do anything, except understand the plight we face.

It's OK for DU members to boycott Wal Mart, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, a myriad number of other business, but buy American cars, the plague should fall on us first.

[AZ Criminal JD]

49. Everytime you post another car goes by you on the line

And you didn't put the bolt in. No wonder Americans are not buying cars made in Michigan.

[DainBramaged]

50. I don't work the line any more, so I hope you are being facetious

:eyes:

[eyesroll]

51. I drive a Saturn, but I have to ask...

since the last thread got locked before I got an answer...

I buy most of my stuff used.

My car was new in 2001, my next one might be used, might be new.

But most of my clothes are second-hand. Books, too. I will never, ever buy a newly constructed home--chances are, the people who made any money off the construction of any home I would own have been dead for decades.

The environmentally minded among us would say I'm doing good.

Twinkies are union made, but Hostess hasn't made a cent off me in years.

I grow some of my own food, and make a lot from scratch.

The Supreme Court would say I'm undercutting the interstate market in those foods (albeit to a less-than-miniscule degree).

How, in your opinion, does buying used and DIY-ing some of the rest fit in? Is there a difference between buying a used Impala and a used Imprezza? Or are both costing American union jobs?
(Edit: Does it matter if someone could afford a new car, or new shirt, or new basement freezer, but chooses to buy second-hand?)

[DainBramaged]

52. Best question I have been asked here in 7 years

seriously. My concern is the purchase of new Foreign owned non-Union made cars over Domestic Union made cars and the related Union driven industries (parts, transportation, service).

My only answer is by recycling, you are reducing your carbon footprint and taking advantage of depreciation. Buying a used car (if it was a Domestic) eventually requires replacement parts, in if you buy GM parts from a GM dealer, they are almost entirely Union made with a better warranty than parts made in China or Taiwan by the auto parts stores. The used car business in this country is huge because not every one can affords new (myself included).

Thanks. You done good.

[bain_sidhe]

53. I too only buy used cars

An "investment" that loses half its value before you get it home isn't a very good investment, IMHO. Besides which, we can't afford new anyway. But even if we could, I'd think long and hard about buying new.

But, as I said up thread, part of the info that goes into making a (new) car choice is what kind of resale value it will have when you trade it in. Establishing a market for domestic-car trade ins has at least some value in the larger picture. Doesn't help the auto companies right now, though.

I'd argue with your used books though. I'm an avid reader (actually, I call myself a bibliovore), and I know some writers... once had dreams of joining their ranks. If they don't sell enough books "new," they don't get contracts to write any more books. Then they have to stop writing and get another job because they need to eat, too.

So, as a personal favor to me, please, buy new books when you can. Because I want writers to keep writing. Because I need stuff to read.

[Owl]

54. K&R!