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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 04:58 PM
Original message
Enough of 'Barbituate' Left Cynicism, Obama Is a Victory over White Supremacy
By Tim Wise, Red Room. Posted November 26, 2008.



We don't need the "everything sucks" analysis; Obama has mobilized millions of activists and that energy is looking for an outlet. Jay Walljasper

My political entry into the left (and by this I mean the real left, beyond the Democratic Party) came a little more than twenty years ago in New Orleans, when, as a college student I became involved in the fight against U.S. intervention in Central America. In particular, the groups of which I was a part sought to end military aid to the death squad governments in El Salvador and Guatemala, and to block support for the contra thugs our nation was arming in Nicaragua, who by that time had already killed about 30,000 civilians in their war with the nominally socialist Sandinista government.
<snip>
But despite being interesting, these folks also managed, at least for me, to demonstrate one of the key problems with the left in the U.S. Namely, for the sake of ideological purity few within the professional left expressed any joy about life, or any emotion whatsoever that wasn't rooted in negativity. They were like the political equivalent of quaaludes: guaranteed to bring you down from whatever partly optimistic place you might find yourself from time to time.

<snip>

The humorlessness of the far left -- to which I remain connected ideologically if not organizationally -- has always struck me as one of its greatest weaknesses. People like to laugh, they like to smile, they like to be joyful, and an awful lot of hardened leftists seem almost utterly incapable of doing any of these things. It's as if they have all taken a pledge that there should be no laughter until the revolution, or some such shit. No positivity, no hope, no happiness so long as people are still poor and exploited and being murdered by cops, and victimized by United States militarism, or performing as wage slaves for global capital, or eating meat, or driving cars. And they wonder why the left is so weak?

Now, in the wake of Barack Obama's victory these barbiturate leftists are back in full effect, lecturing the rest of us about how naive we are for having any confidence whatsoever in him, or for voting at all, since "the Democrats and Republicans are all the same," and he supports FISA and the war with Afghanistan, and all kinds of other messed up policies just like many on the right. Those of us who find any significance in the election of a man of color in a nation founded on white supremacy are fools who "drank the kool-aid," unlike they, whose clear-headed radical consciousness leads them to recognize the superior morality of Ralph Nader, or the pure "scientific wisdom of chairman Bob Avakian," or the intellectual profundity of their favorite graffiti bomb: "If voting changed anything it would be illegal." Yeah, and if body piercings and anarchy tats changed anything, they would be too, and then what would some folks do to be "different?" (Note: there is nothing wrong with either type of adornment, but getting either or both doesn't make you a revolutionary, any more than voting, that's all I'm saying).

<snip>

http://www.alternet.org/election08/108746/?page=1
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. After Democrats took back Congress in 2006,
...I was expecting them to do more.

More investigations of war profiteering, for example.

So I have a wait-and-see attitude towards Obama's presidency.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. White Supremacy? Huh?
I just thought he was a better candidate.
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I think the writer dropped too much acid
right before he wrote that nonsense.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hmmm... barbiturate leftists...
Anything like PUMAS? Or, concern trolls?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. read it. I think you'll appreciate it. It's a long piece
and Wise is definitely of the left.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's a garbage smear with absolutely no evidence beyond the author's own limited experience
Yeah good on him for being active in Latin America, but he's aiming at the wrong targets these days.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Thanks for posting this Cali and too bad you are getting so many
negative responses.

I think there were several merits to the ENTIRE article.

My favorite part was when he wrote that some factions of the progressive left will never be happy with going mainstream, like some people who LOVE a certain band and decry how cool they are and why don't more people like me like good music like this?????

THEN:

When the band gets signed, people do in fact discover and like the music en masse, the band makes money, wins awards and plays in huge arenas.....then that small group is unhappy that they have "sold out" and move on to the next indie band and can begin to either wring their hands or smuggly profess that other people just don't get it.

Of course, I paraphrased and extrapolated a lot more out of this, but I appreciated the analogy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. The analogy is a contemptuous smear and the author has nothing to back up
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 06:20 PM by sfexpat2000
the claim he's making about the progressive left "never being happy". It's a variation of the right wing meme, "the left is too partisan".

/argh
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Oh, I don't know about that...
Seems his point is clearly illustrated at DU lately, indeed, in this very thread.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. what "point" is that?
Oh I guess we should all just post a few lolcats and a few article snippets and substitute that for critcal thought. But yeah, actually caring about serious issues and taking umbrage at our own baselessly smearing us makes us humorless and proves his "points". Gotcha.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Reading for comprehension is an art, I guess...
I've never once posted a lolcat, and I don't recall ever posting about one, laughing at one, or anything even close. I'm not sure what you read or where you're coming from at all, for that matter.

If you are taking offense at this article, well, I just don't know what to say that wouldn't offend you further.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes go ahead and skirt the actual point of the post, and question my reading ability
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 05:44 PM by FarceOfNature
Ironic and lazy. I never called you out in the lolcats comment, with your godly powers of reading comprehension I would hope you realize that. But hey guess I struck a nerve. I'm done here if you have nothing of substance and refuse or are unable to address the content of the article.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Maybe FarceofNature just spends too much time in the Lounge...
:shrug: :freak:
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Wow thanks for stepping in and raising the rhetoric..
or not..
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. You know you love it......there's little doubt you're bored and trying to pick a fight
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 06:20 PM by rvablue
:P :P :P
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. don't have to "try" much to get a fight here!
challenging the content of the article and expecting others to respond to valid points and not sling ad homs seems to do the trick!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. MMM. 'Garbage smear' and 'inexperienced' -= they're not ad hom attacks at all.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. it's not an ad hom to attack an article.
Derf.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
71. I was going to say something a lot more... something...
But I won't. :)

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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
55. I don't get it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. It's a caricature and one that he participates in.
Pretty funny, just as when the Rude Pundit was under the delusion that he was defending against the exploitation of the Palin girl in his column "contemplating her vagina".
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. You're right... I do...
It would be hard to snip it any other way and get the message across... and naturally I jumped to the wrong conclusion initially:) I'm going to blame it on too much swimming in the yellow water kiddie area of DU today:)

I liked the "new band" analogy, mainly because it is so me. And because I could see myself in that, it brought the full meaning of the piece to light. I'm reminded of all the posts lately that begin... "I worked hard for Obama! I volunteered so much time!"

Love your sig line... I may develop blisters before the day is out.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. "political equivalent of quaaludes"
"guaranteed to bring you down from whatever partly optimistic place you might find yourself from time to time."

Boy isn't that the truth. What a terrific article, although I doubt the people who need to heed it will see themselves in it.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. oh great a broadbrush smear against the left, complete with the purity meme
Yes that's right folks, the Left is weak because we have no sense of humor. Nothing to do with decades of systematic selling out of the government to corporate power, or the death of free media, or the hobbling of union power, or the indentured servitude of the middle class...no no no we just don't know how to laugh. Wow now that I know I will go out and buy a Ziggy calender and maybe things will get better!

All that said, thiking America is somehow "post-race" and that the Obama election is responsible for that is naive and dangerous. Not to mention that this article is extremely superficial in discussing what it's title purports to deliver, that is how electing Obama will have any systematic effect on racism. I'm certainly not arguing that it WON'T but I would like to see the author offer something else beyond bashing the "barbiturate Left".
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It's not. I suggest you read the whole long piece
and Wise is definitely part of the left.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I read the whole fucking thing, "long" at 2 pages LOL! Simplistic prose isn't difficult for me,
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 05:15 PM by FarceOfNature
One who is truly for the Left wouldn't have to trot out his credentials inthe first paragraph. Stupid article. And thanks for not actually addressing my points and instead pointing me to "re-read" like a school marm. fantastic.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. lol. you so make his point.
and frankly, I'm a little surprised that you don't know who he is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Wise
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. how do I make his point? pray enlighten me.
and what gives you the idea I don't know who he is? But go on, just attack my misunderstanding of his holy wisdom instead of actually addressing the actual content of the article? Personally, my sense of humor extends beyond snarfling at lolcats. Your mileage obviously varies.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
79. Well, if you really want to know (and you may not...)
Statements like "Personally, my sense of humor extends beyond snarfling at lolcats. Your mileage obviously varies." reek of pretentiousness. One wonders what you have against lolcats, while we're at it, or why we shouldn't snarf at them.


But more to the point, your earlier assertion that we had to fight against decades of corporatism and lies etc. etc...seem rather millenarian to me. There's lots of things wrong with the world, but tackling those problems doesn't mean one has to be po-faced about it, as a lot of partisans are.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. Just keep in mind..."post partisan" means one party. Scares me.
And I never started in with the lolcats comments until I was being attacked for my reading comprehension and lack of humor. And if fighting corporate greed is "millenarian" to you, well I can't really help you out beyond saying expecting the government to reign in plutocracy, not actively ENABLE it, doesn't mean I expect some mystical socialist paradise to spring up from the ashes. I'm sure you can find a thousand people who fit the millenarian description better than I do. Can't really be a millenarian and a humorless cynic barbiturate Leftist at the same time; please make up your mind what I am.

kthnksbai.

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. The millenarian part is the idea that we can't be happy until all problems are solved
I know you were not exactly asserting this, but I do feel that total refusal to compromise is just as destructive as total acquiescence.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. wow... we really get under your skin
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. It's not the ideology. it's the rigidity of the ideology
And Tim Wise says it much better than I ever could. He sums up the experiences I've had- even with my local peace & justice group. And it's not that I disagree with our goals. Fortunately, over the years, things have lightened up a bit.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
52. You Mean Being Principled as Opposed to Being Unprincipled... not Rigid of an Ideology
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 06:07 PM by fascisthunter
I learned long ago, that when one starts making exceptions to their own principles, they become corrupt and blinded by their ambition for whatever they bend their principles for. It's a slippery slope... I've done it and so has every person on this discussion board. Nobody is perfect, and nobody expects perfection. Their is no such thing in politics. Extremists usually make exceptions to "rules"... it really is the other way around.

I'd be "ideologically rigid" if Congress was more than 50 percent Progressive or Liberal and still demanding all Congress be as well. Or if I were President and I placed all ideological center-right folks to my cabinet, yet not just one or two token Liberals or Progressives. That's rigid....

It's why we are in such a mess today, and why corruption permeates from our government, because we, well citizens of this country have made too many exceptions or allowed our "leaders" too many exceptions.

Nobody is calling for Obama's "impeachment", nobody is asking for "purity", we are asking to be represented... at least partially. We Progressives and Liberals, a huge swath of the Democratic base... you know, the ones who are used for votes every election cycle since Kennedy. We used to be the center... then the media as well as the politicians in D.C. decided for us all what that "center" was....

Now that we voice our opinions, anger, concern about Obama's picks, we are now attacked and told to shut up, talked down to, as if you all were the adults...

Well, I have be honest again, and tell you that adults I used to know, told me a long time ago before I could realize it, that being honest, and principled was a value... striving to do so is being principled and mature. Cutting corners isn't...

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. Behold, ladies and gentleman: the fallacy of the false dilemma in all its glory!
Not a good way to structure your argument.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. not for you anyways.... never will... and I'm ok with that
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 06:25 PM by fascisthunter
you got the point and you didn't like it, that's why you responded.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. That's right...I have a low tolerance for authoritarians
And an even lower one for people who claim o be championing honesty while deploying misleading arguments. Go on, project on me some more.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. "Authoritarian"... hmmm... ok
gobble gobble
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Don't be critical of his choices because he's African-American? No, thanks. I'll stay color-blind.nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Self hating liberals are sad, especially when projecting their self loathing
all over the left.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I got the same feeling from the article. An ironically humorless article about then humorlessness of
the Left. :crazy:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It's bizarre when people act out the very thing they object to.
I guess that's just human, though.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. he didn't. that's a mischaracterization.
what hogwash that he's self-hating.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. You're pretty good at baseless denial without actually ADDRESSING the meat of the article
For someone chastising the rest of us for misreading it, you do quite a bit of generalizing. This guy speaks for you so well, you think it's satisfactory to make your points by telling us "NO WAY YOU'RE WRONG GO BACK AND REREAD"! Wow.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Denial is not an argument. Can I ask, what did you like about the article?
Maybe that would be a better place to start.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Kindly point me to the area where he shows he is self-hating...
Or anything of the sort.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I'll just use the OP's strategy, which you seem to have no problem with:
go reread the article!

Self-hating in the sense that he has to spend the whole first two paragraphs lining up his Leftist street cred, but goes on and blames the Left for their own demise due to their attitude but in the same breath calls himself hinged to the Left ideologically but not actively whatever the fuck that means; ignoring all of the perfectly valid reasons we have for being OUTRAGED about the last 3 decades of ideological rule in Washington. Add to that sloppy writing and slapping a title.half of which has fuck-all to do with the actual content of the article. Not very complex issues here.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. It wasn't street cred...
In order to "get" what he was going after, you had to first know where he stood in the mix.

You don't get it. Thanks for clarifying.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Do you have anything besides denial and questioning of my reading ability?
I mean, really? Is it too much to actually address the article's content? I have tried several times but if all you can muster is some rhetorically lazy ad homs, well I don't know what to say besides enjoy your "superiority".
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Every time he uses a term like "barbituate left" of a group he claims to be a part of.
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 05:44 PM by sfexpat2000
/oops
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. He never claimed to be part of that group...
He said he was attached to it because we're all lumped together.

You don't get it at all. Thanks for clarifying.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. "the far left -- to which I remain connected ideologically if not organizationally"
"we on the left" etc etc etc. He is making a distinction between the larger Left and what he calls the "barbiturate Left" who he seems to only approve of if we shit rainbows and sunshine and stay the fuck in line while the Big Kids call the shots.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. . . . .
- My political entry into the left (and by this I mean the real left, beyond the Democratic Party) came a little more than twenty years ago in New Orleans, when, as a college student I became involved in the fight against U.S. intervention in Central America.

- The humorlessness of the far left -- to which I remain connected ideologically if not organizationally -- has always struck me as one of its greatest weaknesses.

- Fatherhood hasn't made me any less radical in my analysis or desire to see change. In fact, if anything, it has made me more so. I am as angry now as I've ever been about injustice, because I can see how it affects these children I helped to create, and for whom I am now responsible.

- And if there is one thing we cannot afford to do now -- especially now -- it is to give up the will to live and to fight, another day.

. . .

The whole premise of this essay is self-loathing projected on the rest of the group when it gets too uncomfortable for him.

Yes, I get it. He's blaming some amorphous "them" for a problem he participates in and cannot solve and has no humor about. It's not very hard to "get" that it's easier to unload on other people than to assume responsibility for a problem of attitude or strategy or tactic.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #46
91. He Did That During the Primaries, Too, And Prior
Edited on Thu Nov-27-08 11:01 AM by Crisco
"White racism, white racism, white racism, blah blah blah, and I know because I AM one."

It's the same attitude I've encountered in *some* former cigarette smokers. "I know all smokers are rude, because when I smoked, I was rude." Newsflash: you still are.


He attributes his worst qualities as a leftist to others of the left, as in the OP piece, in the same manners he has in some of his writings on racism, especially during the primaries.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. n/t
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. I normally love Tim Wise's writing, but he's being really obnoxious here.
Although I'm sure that some of the same DUers who would normally becoming unhinged and defensive at some of his other essays are perfectly happy with this one.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Tim Wise is an acquired taste but I appreciate what he does.
He's one of few Caucasians who cuts through the bullshit and calls white people on our privilege and our assumptions.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. I remember a piece he did last summer that got locked here
but that I agreed with very much.

This one seems a little myopic to me, anyway.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Was it the one about the white Democratic women who refused to vote for Obama?
I posted an OP about it and it got flamed, and then locked. Definitely touched a few nerves.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Yep. That was it. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. The strength of this essay could be the struggle to position himself
during a time of turmoil on the left, inside and out and also, in relation to the rest of the country.

If I weren't on DU and just talking to him, that's what I would ask about. But, those of us who write for the public don't get it right every time, lol, and that's cool.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. Well, stop doing it then.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. This is non sequitur night for you, anigbrowl?
lol
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Yes, I'm feeling abbreviated today. But I do agree with the substance of the OP.


And I'm skeptical of people (in general) who a) have no sense of humor and b) insist on unrealistic levels of political purity. I'm more of a pragmatist than a populist.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Tim's dismay pretty much fits that criteria -- humorless and rigid.
We'd do so much better to choose teams and have a pie fight and get over our own bad selves. lol

I think more than anything else, humorlessness gets to me, too, no matter who it comes from.

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I laughed at the bit about the albanian folk music
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Utnapishtim Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. The socio-politico ramifications of President Obama are more important than the man himself.
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 06:23 PM by Utnapishtim
I came out in strong support of him as soon as I saw the man, and before I knew any of his policies (which impress me as being pretty reasonably center-left) for two reasons: to deny Hilary the Presidency, but much more importantly to destroy the Southern Strategy. Almost every Presidential race since 1968 has been essentially a dress-rehearsal of this election, with the Democratic candidate playing the role of the 'nigger'. Hence Bill Clinton seemed to be a saxophone-playing piece of white trash (read: nigger) to the Republicans; George McGovern was famously castigated about busing by both Nixon and Wallace; Jimmy Carter was attacked as being too supportive of blacks and hence selling out the Dixiecrats; etc. I knew that if Democrats won with a black man on top of the ticket, this strategy would basically be untenable, driving the racists once-and-for-all into the Republican camp and leaving the remaining majority-Dems that much more invulnerable to dog-whistling.
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Utnapishtim Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Gah.
I fucked up the italics. Oh, well.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
61. You still have a few minutes to edit the original post if you want
(up to an hour after you first posted it). You've found the way they're done here, I see.
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Utnapishtim Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. Thanks, got it.
:-)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
81. Welcome to DU, Utnaishtim.
:)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. He makes one good point. Obama may set in motion something beyoind hiimself.
Just as Kennedy did.

I see Obama as a centrist, playing to the center. But, like Kennedy, he has spurred a leftward movement, mostly in reaction to the failed right, that has the potential to really shift the nation to the left despite his centrist rhetoric.

The days of being satisfied with the "lesser of two evils" may be coming to an end.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Another, smaller point: Many people had already mobilized and for years.
The Obama campaign benefited from all those protests of the Bush regime. He harvested them, he didn't begin them.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Politicians don't lead. They follow.
The mood of the country, thanks to the protests and the incredible bungling of BushCorp, have changed the mood of the country. They don't need to look far to see how FUBAR America is. They are demanding change not mere platitudes and promises.

I doubt that Obama can deliver, but the demand is there and will likely grow.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. Well, with retailers folding every day, we can't very well just go shopping again.
These silly people are going to leave us with nothing else to do but prod their @sses.

lol

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
84. A pastime much needed in this country.
Perhaps there will be a reality TV show dedicated to the prodders.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
40. I'm far far left and I'm still optimistic
Sure, Robert Gates was a kick in the nuts, but everyone else has been great
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. The Gates pick is very smart in several directions.
Buffer, big time. Continuity, too. Gates is a BushCo fixer but he will be boxed in and ripe to hang failure on if failure happens. I've been critical of several choices but after thinking through that one, it seems like very wise one.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Perhaps. But I just have a problem with Gates' motivations
At least with Hillary, she is motivated by policy. Seriously! The thing that bores most politicians is the one thing that floats her boat. She's a keeper.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Gates will be watched and his leash will be short, imho.
:)
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. You know what's funny?
One of the people who likes this article is one of the most humorless, stick-up-the-ass DUers on the board.

Guess which one.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Damn I have to pick just one?
:evilfrown:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
70. Yeah, that confused me as well
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
60. Tim Wise is a fucking moron, especially when it comes to race
But he does have a point (albeit one buried in unhelpful snark) about the far left as a whole.

I feel his pain. Too bad his perfectly understandable frustration ensures that those who need to heed will simply tune out.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. What is he wrong about when it comes to race?
I mean, I can understand not finding his style to your liking, but what specific greivance do you have with the substance of what he says about white privilege?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. I haven't read that much of him.
But he sounds like some pretentious undergraduate who just figured out how race relations work, and figures nobody else realized it before either.

Kind of like that horrible film- Crash.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. Or Sally and Johnny
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. lulz
I'm trying to think of synonyms for "ham-fisted..."
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Bacon-handed?
:shrug:

(Mmm, bacon...) :9
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
94. He teaches race relations to undergrads and lectures high school students
Who, believe it or not, are generally not as advanced in understanding of the subject as the average DUer. (Not that the average white DUer is all that far along either)

Wise explains how concepts like "reverse racism" are bullshit, and very well. I don't find anything pretentious about his writings.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
90. Tim Wise is spot on when he talks about race
This article is the one that's off.

Regards
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
88. It would help if we didn't have folks making blanket condemnations of dissent
Show me where dissent about Obama's actions so far has hurt anything at all . . . except, maybe, the insecure egos of folks who have little appreciation for our democratic process and believe our votes are the full extent of our public responsibility in the operation and direction of our government.

This attempt at suppressing that dissent is disgusting and transparently self-serving to whatever agenda the scolders are themselves defending. It's amazing to these critics of Obama's critics that anyone would actually care about any issue beyond the politics of the election to defend and advocate for them to completion. That commitment to the ultimate advancement of issues through the political system is a primary characteristic of progressive politics. But, the critics of the critics treat that advocacy as a crime.

Fact is, these instigations of democracy from dissenters are a threat to whatever critics of the critics wanted the election to project for their own sweet selves. If they want the change they've voted for they will have to push and prod the president (through their legislators) along with the rest of us. The only question is when.

There's no time better than the present to press for the change we voted for, as Mr. Obama chooses the folks who will be the closest to his ear as he makes his deliberations and decisions.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. You Hit the Nail on the Head with This Post
This post of yours should be a thread by itself.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
93. Interesting
I've read that depressives or in this case "barbiturate leftists" (I can't believe he mentioned quaaludes, cracks me up in a black humor kind of way) merely have a more realistic view of the world.

I get his point, but I disagree with the title. It's not a "victory" over white supremacy, it's one of the more profound and hopefully effective challenges to it in American history. The system we have is the system we have.

What I hope for *is* change. Obama represents huge change, probably more than we realize at this point in history. I understand change will happen in smaller increments that I like. I think Wise is writing from a place of frustration, having been on the 'front lines' so to speak. His article sounds a bit bitter.

What about the young revolutionaries now? That ones that are just like he was at one time?

Are they irreverent and humorless because they haven't grown up and had children?
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