How does one approach this subject delicately and with sensitivity to all concerned...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

Even those who might read this?

This is a thorny issue, around here, one that, by my addressing it, I might open old wounds. I swear to (insert name of favorite deity here) I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing that. So please, stay your vitriol, should the subject of this post cause your temperature to rise. I think enough of you know that I am not a shit-slinger in these parts. To my mind, you are ALL my brothers and sisters.

Day before yesterday, I stopped off at the home of a local Dem councilwoman. The little town I live in can be very hard on outsiders and those who struggle economically, and I got the double whammy: I am both of those things. But she has been good and kind to me, and I wanted to stop by and show her my "new" 98 Suburu Forester S. This is the first car I have been able to own in over 10 years, and it offers me some expanded horizons, to be sure, and I wanted to share that with her.

While I was there, she asked me what I thought of the election. I told her that as much as anything, I was deeply relieved. Well, with that she went "yoiks and away!". She launched into a string of vitriol against the President-elect that I have yet to hear from a repuke. I mean, this was nasty stuff and the dog-whistle words were well-represented in her soliliquy. I just kind of stood back, to keep out of the range of the snot and spit and hoped she would run out of gas speedily. When she finally paused, I said "Let me guess: You were a Clinton supporter, right?". She answered quite in the affirmative, and set off again on another spleen-venting. Let me tell you, I have not seen vitriol slung with such brio, such joie du vivre, such abandon in quite a while. It was pure, unadulterated hatred. She also made much of the fact that she was a McDepends/Caribou Barbie supporter, which just pushed me into a cognitive abyss I am still climbing out from. Thus this post.

You know, I pretty much stayed out of GD: P. I don't much like arguing anywhoo, and I really dislike arguing with my friends, and from what I saw, GD: P was one long argument, enhanced with industrial-strength pizza deliveries. Oh sure, I had a sense of some of the things that were going on out there, and I even went to some of the fringier sites, to be a voyeur and sometimes, be shocked by what I was seeing, sometimes from people I know from here. But being a reliably dense kind of guy, as only a man can be, a lot did not really sink in. Also, being something of a Pollyanna, I thought that in most cases, once the shitstorms died down, we would all coalesce once again, as Dems, and set to putting things right.

I guess I missed something during the whole thing. I was interested in issues and strategies. Personalities? Not so much. I figured we could elect a ham sandwich on rye, with extra spicy mustard, and do better than what we have for the next 50 days or so. On the other hand, this woman, who I called friend, has not moved on one little bit. She is reliving every perceived slight of the primaries like they were happening now. She is fondling her every anger, watering and tending them. It even shows in her face. She has aged and sadly, not well.

I told her "Let's agree to disagree and I still love you long time". That was the best I could do, under the circumstances. It was all I could think of, dullard that I can so reliably be.

I guess I am writing this to kind of reach out to those who might be harboring thoughts like hers and tending them with the same enthusiasm. Because before us, we have a stark and awful choice: we can all, as citizens, pull this wagon of state and civil society away from the precipice, or we can all start watching the complete collection of "Mad Max" movies, for hot tips and pointers on how to survive during the next 100 to 200 years.

The choices are really that stark and final. We don't have the luxury of holding onto all our perceived slights of the past, our angers and our frustrations. Life does not exist in the past, especially in these times, when there is so much looming for us out ahead, both good and bad. We cannot afford the luxury of lingering resentments.

I leave you with this: Namaste. Selah.

[yardwork]

1. It sounds like she's a racist.

It's the only explanation that matches all the information you've provided. She hates Obama, she used "dog whistle" phrases (by which I take it you mean racist comments), she supported Palin.

She says she was a Hillary supporter, but she didn't respect Hillary's request that her followers support the Democratic nominee. Nobody who really agreed with what Hillary Clinton says and does would ever support Sarah Palin or John McCain.

I conclude that this woman is racist. I'd avoid her if I were you.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Well, if that is the case...

My heart is broken. Interesting that she is married to a hispanic gentleman, too.

[yardwork]

6. It is very sad. I'm sorry that you found out in this particularly nasty way.

[KittyWampus]

58. "I'd avoid her if I were you". Many people have stuff deeply implanted in their subconscious.

It takes a lot of psychological strength and work to bring the muck up out of the dark and into the light where it can be examined and let go.

IMO, a lot of such Clinton supporters who launch into this mode are indeed emotionally reacting to stuff they aren't even aware of.

It's not like you can even say outright "you're a racist" and the person will say "oh, you're right".

How to reach these people?

It takes things like artwork and comedy. Messages that work more on a symbolic level that don't overtly threaten people or make them defensive.

Reading this thread further, Tangerine LaBamba also points to women who are reliving pain caused by abusive men in their lives. Very insightful.

[yardwork]

61. The OP will have to decide how to react. I was responding to the words of the OP.

Sometimes people seem to be very nice until we get to know them better. Personally, I think someone who goes apeshit about Obama and uses "dog whistle" phrases is somebody to avoid, but that's just me.

[annabanana]

75. artwork and comedy and music... you are so right..

If they hate on an unexamined, emotional level they cannot be reclaimed with reason alone.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. You tell a good story

I've had encounters like the one you described, although not quite as intense as your experience.

In every instance, the background on this kind of reaction was the individual's own personal issues. All were women who'd had bad experiences with men, who were absolutely unable to get past the man/woman thing, who saw in Hillary Clinton (I think) a woman who'd been humiliated by her husband, but who was still going forward on her own.

When Hillary proved to be not the Superwoman these women wanted her to be, when they were once again forced to face the reality that Bill was all over his wife's stuff, that Hillary wasn't a capable manager, that she'd been bested by another candidate (gender and race having nothing to do with it), they dug in and went right back to a place in their minds where they once had been impotent and overpowered and unhappy.

And there they stay.

Maybe that's not your councilwoman's story, but it might give you a bit more insight into what she's doing. That she's a Democrat, that she swung over to the Other Side, well, I just don't know what to say about it, except that this is much more of a pathology than anything rational.

Easy does it. We still won..........................

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. I guess that it what I wrote it for:

To gain some insight. Thanks, Tangy. Yer' a doll.

[Mist]

17. Thanks for putting this in perspective for me Tangerine. I've been wondering for quite a while

now about the virulent support for Hillary. You gave the best explanation for that virulence that some of her supporters have displayed, and continue to display. I actually thought virtually all such "puma" types were Repub. ringers. Your psychological insight makes a lot of sense. Kind of a missing puzzle piece.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

35. It surprised me

A good friend, an affluent, older Jewish woman, highly educated, knee-jerk liberal Democrat went so nuts on me after Hillary dropped out, I couldn't believe it. When she supported McCain, I was absolutely blown away.

Then I remembered her bad first marriage, the ex-husband who was an aggravation to her all his life, the son from that marriage who died of an awful form of cancer, and it suddenly made sense to me. Barbara identified with Hillary.

It became personal, not political, and, looking at these people through that lens made it very clear to me.

Projection. Hillary was going to right the wrongs in their lives, at least in their heads, and be triumphant where they - and she - had failed. And when she didn't do it, their rage returned, multiplied, and became even more irrational because, I think, they saw their last chance at revenge.

Makes sense when you put it in that frame of reference, doesn't it?

[NOLALady]

36. Interesting.

Your friend identified with HRC. Yet, she supported McCain who abandoned his first wife.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. It's not rational

It's a pathology, and pathologies are never rational.

She'd probably just shrug it off, since that bit of information about McCain wouldn't fit into the template she'd constructed in her head to justify her behavior.

In the end, it's all personal.

[TahitiNut]

24. That matches my impressions of similar individuals to a "T" ... well said.

:thumbsup:

[mopinko]

31. could be her own story, or her mother's, or.. np

[roseBudd]

59. I spent a good amount of time examining HRC's own blog at right before & right after her

concession & I noticed something to me that was very strange so I went to Obama's own blog & examined it for the same phenomonon. I did not find it there.

What I did once I was struck by this was do a CNTRL+F for the word "love" & count the number of times the word occured.

It was on almost every post on the HRC blog, none on the Obama one.

I cannot speak to what HRCs blog was like in the years and months before she conceded, but by that point her supporters were fans who had a love object.

Obama took her away from them and for that they hated him.

I also read alot of the PUMA stuff & the hatred of Obama was palpable.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

62. How telling

Your perceptions are terrific. It sounds right on the money. Betrayal, infidelity, once again, expectations crushed.

Yep, it's all personal.

Nice catch.

[roseBudd]

64. And if you put it in the context of a love object who is stolen away, the ire would be directed at

the person who stole the love object.

In this case they were used to seeing HRC every day during the primaries.

Once she conceded they were very suddenly deprived of the sight of her.

The only way they could get her back to the way they remembered her was for McCain to win in 08 so HRC could run against in 2012.

[babylonsister]

3. You are far from dense, and I'm surprised you held your tongue.

But I can see you like this person, so I'll hold mine. :D

My choice was made a long time ago, and I stand by it. :fistbump:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Thanks, m'dear.

It was a very confusing moment in my life. High weirdness.

[EFerrari]

4. My friend, my mother is in the same mode.

I've been in shock because, she's always been a much stauncher supporter of the party than I'll ever be.

She hasn't let go of *anything* and that's so out of character, all I can do is avoid the occasion of sin -- of bringing up the topic. It may be her advancing age but I can't really know that and it would be an insult to her to simply assume it. My mother has always been much smarter than I am.

For some people, resentments are not luxuries. They are the known Universe.

I don't know what to do with that, exactly. If I remember my Algebra class at all, tacking to the left is a move in a positive direction. Maybe when confronted with resentment. we can try to help people to tack to the left because the pull is positive.

It's not easy to do that but, it may be a good idea. Small gains.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. I have a million reasons to tend my resentments.

That said, my recent illness snapped my head around, thank you Jeebus, hallay-LOOOOOO-yah!. My friends, my real friends, were there for me. They were calling me in the recovery room(I understand that the content of my replies to their questions was quite diverting, in an extra-terrestrial kind of way. ;-) ). They have been there for me reliably, every step of the way and without qualification. This was far more than I had any right to expect.

It kind of changes your perspective, you know? For the better, too. You start thinking more about blessings and less about resentments.

[Mist]

19. Thanks for the OP, Tandalayo, and glad to hear everything's better, health-wise. I

also need to say, along with Babylonsister, that you are very far from dense! You are never anything other than trenchant and informative.

[Warpy]

8. You said exactly the right thing to someone you consider a friend

and friends can agree to disagree all the time. It's just a shame that disagreeing turned her so disagreeable.

The only thing I add to people like that is to say that Clinton ran a great campaign (politic lie there, the DLC cost her bigtime) and that she lost and it was time to move on and I have and so has she.

I'm sorry you had to see such an ugly side to a friend. Your line about how she tended and gardened her self defeating spite was spot on.

Congratulations on the car, though. I owned a Subaru many years ago and I loved that little car, only sold it to finance my last year of nursing school.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. RE: The Car.

I bought it from a guy in Easton PA who, along with selling about 480 Subies a year, some fixed up and some just as is, for export to former Soviet bloc nations, is a Fundamentalist Minister and a chaplain at Northampton County Prison. Lemme tell you: if you gotta buy a used car, one that is a minister is a great choice. Addendum: He is also a real nice guy. No "in your face" crap.

He rebuilt the engine before I got it, it has every option, save the navigation module, it is mint, and it has a leather interior, which was a very special order from the factory, since it was not offered in 98 and took 3 months to get. Subaru was...resistant.

New brakes, new exhaust, 5 speed, great meat, clean body, rides like new. Just needs a new anti-knock sensor, a $50 item and not a deal killer.

I think I died and went to automotive heaven. ;-)

[undeterred]

13. great meat?

what's that?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Tires nt

[Adsos Letter]

16. it probably means it has good tires...

lots of "meat" (rubber) left on the treads.

[roseBudd]

65. My 95 Legacy wagon was hit 2 weeks before election, I cried because I didn't want it...

totaled and managed to get it fixed for $3500 which is not an easy trick when an insurance co. is looking at lowest payoff possible.

Do be aware of head gasket issues on the 2.5 liter engines though.

That is one of the main reason I felt like I could not find a Subie to replace mine, I have the 2.2 liter engine.

Plus I'm ony at 92K

[undeterred]

12. You'd think every Democrat would be happy

that there is a Democrat in the White House and that we have majorities in Congress. We've been out of power for so long that this in itself is worthy of celebration.

Democrats have a way of getting very attached to individual candidates. There were huge differences in the personality and style of the top candidates, but if all you did was examine positions without personalities attached- Clinton and Obama are truly not that different.

I never used to pay attention to the primaries myself- it always seemed to me that I had no control over it. I am always going to vote Democrat no matter what, so whoever gets the nomination, I decided to like that person. And the Democratic presidential nominees are without exception extremely intelligent and capable people.

This campaign season started so early- I think the people who get deeply invested in a candidate so far ahead of time have trouble detaching and supporting the nominee. Voting for McCain-Palin because someone likes Clinton better than Obama is just nonsensical.

Obama wasn't my first choice either, but it wasn't hard to find good things about him. I think he was very gracious toward Hillary. I can see where she had some unfair things happen along the way, but this happens every campaign season. John Kerry was trashed by the Swift Boaters and had the presidency stolen from him in Ohio. I don't see him or his supporters as bitter- he's been totally supportive of Obama.

And this has still been a good year for women... Clinton did break the glass ceiling. Let's hope that the next time we need to choose a Democratic nominee the field is so diverse that being black or hispanic or female is a non-issue.

[dweller]

14. a subaru is a great car

so in this case, just drive away.

:shrug: look on the bright side. Only so much one can do.

time wounds all heals.
dp

[Ellen Forradalom]

18. The slights of the primaries

Are not necessarily perceived. For example, anyone who voted Clinton in New Jersey saw their vote thrown away by their governor and are asking why bother having primaries? They are not forgetting this. A lot has been swept under the rug and it is very shortsighted to attribute that anger to racism.

[emilyg]

20. You're right.

Furthermore screaming racism at every turn diminishes.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

28. It

sounds like it was RACISM. Many, many people in this great country are still racist if you didn't already know that. Plus, he said flat out that she was using code words.

[yardwork]

56. Nobody's screaming and it sounds like this woman made racist comments, according to the OP.

Ignoring racism diminishes, too.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

79. If you find people are frequently "screaming racism" around you.

They might be trying to tell you something. Just saying. :shrug:

[emilyg]

88. You do know I was referring to DU - doncha ya?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

98. Sorry but I've seen a few of your posts on DU.

I'm talking about YOU.

[emilyg]

99. I was going to ask you what you found

offensive about my posts. Then I realized I didn't care. Peace.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. Yo. Freeze.

I know dog-whistle words. She used dog-whistle words. Are you telling me that I did not hear what I heard? If so, please, give me a little credit for at least SOME intelligence and knowledge in this matter.

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. Excuse me?

I said no such thing.

I re-iterate that the 'perceived' slights of the primaries are not. This particular person's problems may be due to race (I do not know as I was not there), but not all Democrats who were less than thrilled with the eventual nominee are racists. Some, as in the aforementioned New Jersey Dems who voted Clinton, only to have their governor overturn their vote, have a good reason to be angry with the process that yielded the nominee. This has nothing to do with race, yet they have been branded racists. Their concerns have been swept under the rug, they understand that they don't get to belong to the new Democratic fun club, and they're pissed. It is for that reason that offering up racism as the first explanation for any Democrat unhappy with the party is unwise.

It's entirely possible that race is the primary reason she did not like Obama. But I also urge you to look further than that in future encounters with dissident Dems.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

77. There is no legitimate excuse for any Democrat to support McCain and Palin

None. No matter what happened in the primaries. And I would say the same thing if Clinton had won and Obama supporters were holding out.

[rosesaylavee]

42. I am not familiar with what happened to votes in New Jersey

I too stayed pretty much out of GD-P for months this year. What happened in New Jersey?

[Ellen Forradalom]

63. The state went to Clinton

but all its delegates went Obama at the convention.

Nothing against Obama, but it makes some Jersey voters wonder why the hell they bothered.

[Tesha]

68. They did what Hillary Clinton asked.

But don't let that affect your resentments.

Tesha

[mrreowwr_kittty]

78. OMFG.

Like the majority of Clinton voters in NJ really gave a flying fart about what happened at the DNC. :eyes:

Hint: Judging from the numbers in NJ on Nov. 4th, they didn't.

[JVS]

92. None of the delegates counted. The vote was done by acclamation.

[Fading Captain]

23. On behalf of Michigan

Thanks for buying a subaru, fellow democrat and friend of unions.

[knitter4democracy]

39. Oh, come on. I see them everywhere up here.

She bought it used, too.

I'm as rabid a Michigander as anyone else (though of the Spartan variety ;) ), and I think attacking her on her car is stupid. She said that she was lucky to get it, it's a 98 for crying out loud, and we should be happy that she has a car.

[Fading Captain]

43. I feel the same way about foriegn car buyers

As environmentalists feel about Hummer buyers.

Even stronger.

Michigan is dying on the vine because Americans don't have the good sense to buy American.

And if yuu're from Michigan, you know the devestation. And you know that it's only going to get worse -- much worse -- unless attitudes change fast.

So everytime some "Democrat" brags about buying a foreign car on DU. They are going to hear about it.

[bvar22]

47. Let me repeat what was said above:

She bought a USED car, a 1998 model.

How does that affect Michigan?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

53. I'm not sure buying American is the solution.

Mainly because the people running those companies don't really give a rat's ass about Americans or American workers. Their loyalty is to stockholder dividends, bonuses and the status quo.
Detroit has known for a long time the market for selling cars has been changed but they continued to churn out SUV's, large sedans and huge freakin' pickup trucks that got terrible mileage.
In a way, buying American only encourages that behavior.
Unfortunately, the working person gets hurt as less business would of course mean less work.
Not sure what the solution is but I know this. The problem starts at the top, or as the old Italian phrase goes,'the fish rots from the head down'
By the way, in the interest of full disclosure, I was born at Mt.Carmel Hospital in Detroit, grew up on the west side, graduated from Henry Ford High and worked at the Ford Wixom plant for several months, many years ago.
:)

[Fading Captain]

55. Stop thinking about the company

And start thinking about the jobs and EVERYTHING (spending, security, home buying, spinoffs, tax base) that comes with it.

[knitter4democracy]

73. They made those, though, because they sold.

That's the plain truth. Michigan Truck, Ford's assembly line for all the truck chasses, ran at beyond capacity for years. It's only been with the quick upswing in gas prices that the market's fallen apart. They made what sold, and the real problem is that they didn't have solid backup plans, which they should have.

[knitter4democracy]

72. I do know the devastation. I also know it's not just cars.

If they buy it new and brag about how much better it is than a Ford, then yeah, I might say something. Buying something ten years old, though, means they're going through just as rough a time as we are up here, and that means I back off.

It's not just cars, too, btw. My brother runs a motorcycle company in Hillsdale, and people don't have the money to buy the bikes. Add in Whirlpool and the many other factories that are sizing down or shipping jobs overseas, and it's not just people not buying American cars. It's the whole f****d up system.

[Chulanowa]

81. well, if Michigan made anything people wanted to buy...

I know exactly where you're coming from, but your position is sort of like someone complaining that we're not buying American-made B&W cathode-ray TV's instead of Japanese LCD high-def flatscreens.

If America were making the product Americans wanted, then Americans would buy it from American companies. Instead we're given 12 MPG freaks that look like a kid built them out of duplo blocks. The auto companies spend more money spenning the wheels of their latest "manly" truck in a field of dirt for an advertisement than they do on R&D.

This isn't the fault of the American auto worker, but they're ending up paying the price for it. Most people don't have the resources to drop several grand on a lower-quality product just because of the union label.

[knitter4democracy]

90. Not true.

My brother's motorcycle company has decent sales, and they sell those all over the world. Built in Michigan with almost all American-made parts, and their bikes are tearing up the tracks all over the world.

Sales are down because of the economy--people don't have the money to buy their kids a top racing dirtbike as much as they used to. The European VAT hurts them, too.

My American-made spinning wheel is of higher quality than my New Zealand-made spinning wheel, and when the axle bent last spring, I was able to find a machine shop here in town that was able to fix it to as good as new. The guys were awesome, and the owner only wanted to charge me ten bucks for half an hour's worth of work because they'd had fun figuring it out. I paid him the going rate instead, I was so happy with their workmanship.

I can think of many American-made items that are of higher quality that people do buy, from spindles and spinning wheels to yarn to dirtbikes to washing machines, many made here in Michigan. Don't diss the Michigan worker or our products because of some decisions made at the top of the Big Three.

[charlie]

48. Tandy's a guy

An extraordinarily good guy whose circumstances dictate very frugal living. I'm really happy to see him happy. And that hectoring self-righteous clot above you can go bite himself.

[roseBudd]

60. And a 10 year old American car may not be worth buying, sad but true...

I have a 95 Subaru Legacy with 92K and in 7 years I have had 1 repair, a sensor that cost $100

[knitter4democracy]

71. Not sure about that.

Then again, I live in Michigan. There are many cars on the road up here at least that age that are American and still running fine.

[roseBudd]

74. Running fine is not the criteria, it is time & $ spent at the repair shop..

there is a reason why blue book on used cars varies my year, make, model & mileage

For whatever reason, my 95 Subaru has held a seemingly insane value for it's age.

And my brakes only plus one sensor replacement in 7 years in my opinion is the mark of a reliable car.

Now I will admit my cup holder sucks & my heat shield rattles.

[knitter4democracy]

89. I had my mom's old Jeep for a couple of years.

It was older than the kid doing my oil changes, and then she gave it to her pastor's son for a car to get to and from college. It's still running, and if I remember right, it's an 88 Jeep Cherokee. I only ever had to do oil changes to it when I had it. The engine and tranny were fine, and Mom had just gotten new tires (again).

[knitter4democracy]

70. My serious bad. I didn't even look.

I've been around here long enough that I should've known better. Sorry. :(

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

51. Yo, Myron.

I am reliably poor, by any metric known to man. This was a car that I could afford. It is also a station wagon, which allows me to pick up computers I fix, like the computer systems I pick up, fix and give to the local domestic abuse and rape crisis center so women who are re-entering the community after a period of hell in their lives can be just that little more empowered in their job searching and keeping in touch with family members and friends.

Sorry if you find that idealogically treasonous.

[Fading Captain]

54. I recently bought my first new car

A Ford Focus, made right down the highway.

For years, I have driven used Chryslers and Fords. I think it is poor form to drive foreign cars -- new or used -- while union workers are getting jettisoned back to the stone age, economically.

There's a dastardly thing happening in America. The Dems are abanoning the working class. And the Republicans are just tickled at the idea of filling the void and trying to lead it down a scary path. When Sarah Palin uses the phrase "working class" in a speech four or five times, and the Dems are running away, policy wise, from unions at every chance, I get ornery.

Because thanks to NAFTA and other terrible trade agreements and Americans who buy foriegn, the manufacturing workers are in desperate straights.

They are losing their jobs.
Losing their homes.
Their families are vulnerable.
And they are getting angry.

And guess which party LOVES to appeal to anger. And guess where they are going to direct it. At Mexicans. At gays. At blacks. At people on welfare.

Americans need to start looking out for each other. If they don't, they'll need to start looking out for each other. And not in a good way.

[JerseygirlCT]

85. Don't let them get to you.

You're doing just fine. And that's a terrific car you've got.

[knitter4democracy]

91. We're all just trying to survive, that's true.

I traded in my Subaru Outback for a Ford Freestyle, though. Far better car. I freakin' love my car. Anyway . . .

We're all just trying to survive, but please understand that Michigan's dying. I've never seen it like this, and even my parents, who remember how awful it was up here in the 70s say it's worse now. People are leaving the state at an alarming rate, jobs are flying out of here, and people are literally starving and worrying about freezing to death this winter. The primaries were really hard, considering our state party leadership mucked that up, and we got to hear all about how Michigan was greedy and grabby when all our party leadership was trying to do was get the national notice for how our state is dying. And since? Obama's visited a couple of times, dissed a female reporter for asking a good question, and not given any real answers about jobs here. It's making all of us Dems up here twitchy.

[JanMichael]

94. Here's a great website for you to enjoy-- we own a '98 too

http://home.comcast.net/~nv1z/subaruhighmileage.html

Check out the ones with over 500,000!

We are at 125,000 now--- just the usual junk, oil changes, etc.

[CreekDog]

84. a used one

new ones are assembled in Indiana.

[eridani]

25. Still trying to wrap my brain around this

Geezer/Gidget are against everything Clinton has been for her whole life, with the exception of US imperial bullying (which Obama is equally committed to). Apparently there are still a lot of people who don't expect national politics to change their lives in any meaningful way and see candidates strictly as personalities.

[JVS]

26. There is only one thing to do. Make sure that PUMAfied fool does not remain a dem councilwoman

Anyone who thinks McCain and Palin are better for the country has no place in the party.

[trof]

27. There you go again...

Being all lucid and rational and shit.
K&R
:-)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

52. Yeah, I know.

Why do I crucify myself on that cross of reason and rationality? ;-)

Sometimes I wish I could live my life in the same fugue state I see so many others living in. It must be nice and warm and fuzzie bunnies there.

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Maybe that's why Obama is conceding the positions to the Washington Insiders.

[BeFree]

30. Hmmfh!!

I must be living right!

Told an RRR - a Rich Rabid Republican that I was thankful for Obama, and all they could say was that he was our president, and wished him well. Not satisfied, I pried, "bush was never my president", got not even a rise.

Some people, eh?

[NNN0LHI]

32. If she wanted the Dem who came in second in our primary to be our candidate she is not a Dem

Because that would be a certain path to the Republicans winning in the general election.

Trust me on this one.

Don

[tblue37]

40. It reminds me of those who decided that Lieberdweeb should go back to the Senate,

even though he lost the Dem primary.

Oh, sure--I realize that it was Republican money and Republican voters that put him over the top in the Connecticut Senate race, but they couldn't have done so without help from a lot of clueless Dem voters (mainly voting on name recognition, I imagine) and the clueless Dem leaders who went to Connecticut to stump for their ol' pal Joe, who then (as any of us could have told them he would) turned around and stabbed them in the back, as he did to his constituents in Connecticut.

We should have a rule in the Dem Party that if a candidate loses the Dem primary, Dems (especially high profile Dem office-holders) don't help him run in the general election as though he is our party's "real" candidate. (I am pretty sure that the Republicans have such a rule.)

[southernyankeebelle]

33. Dim Wits - Picture President Palin

I didn't vote for Obama or Clinton in the primary. I voted for Biden. Saying that I would have voted for ANY democratic that would have won the nomination. But I don't understand why anyone who voted for Clinton could change their vote for McCain knowing that he used the woman vote by placing Moose mommy on the ticket. Shame on any democratic who shifted their vote from Clinton to McCain for that reason. Obama won far and square. Obama and Clinton share the same views on 99% of the issues. Voting for the other party because you hate Obama cause he beat Clinton shows how you don't know any of the issues. It also shows that this was just a popularity thing for you. I pity people like that. Can you picture President Palin.

[Time for change]

34. I had become somewhat upset about what I considered Hillary's negative campaigning during the

primary season. But then some information came out about how she resisted the advice of campaign aids to be a lot more negative than she was. I wrote a DU post about that, titled "Thank You Hillary":
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Time%20for%20change/346

After conceding her primary defeat, Hillary very much got with the ticket, working hard for the Obama campaign. As it turned out, the Hillary voters voted for Obama in greater numbers in the GE than other Democrats, other than those who originally supported Obama:

Who did you want to win the Democratic nomination? (Democrats only)
Hillary Clinton: Obama + 67
Other Democratic candidate (not including Obama): Obama + 28
No preference: Obama + 50

Infighting among Democrats is a luxury that we can't afford. 8 years of Republican rule has been catastrophic, and we can't afford to let this happen again.

[Hepburn]

37. Congrats on your lovely new car...good choice, IMO.

BTW: Ignore the racist, sore-loser asshole you went to see to share your good news about your new car.

Some people cannot get over certain things...like color or sexual orientation. It must have been a very bad feeling to see someone you thought good of ~~ to watch that person turn into something you never imagined right before your eyes. Sorry this was done to you.

:hug:

[lunatica]

38. I think part of that vitriol is defensive

I'm also issue oriented so it's been a real shock to see how polarized so many people became over BOTH CANDIDATES. I lost friends and stopped posting on some of my favorite blogs because people were banned for criticizing one of the Candidates. I also note that even now if there is a thread that praises Hillary it is soon attacked. And even small criticisms of Obama are also attacked. It isn't just the puma type reaction of the Hillary supporters that's extreme. There are Obama supporters who are just as vitriolic. If anyone doesn't believe that then try to imagine what DU would be like if Hillary were the President Elect right now. The extreme wing of the Obama supporters would be livid and unyielding in their rage.

I always said I would vote for the Democratic nominee because I never fell in love with the candidates. But I do have a lot of respect for both of them.

[rosesaylavee]

41. This political year has been so hard on friendships

What a nice friend you are ... perhaps she will come around to the understanding that this will work out much better than she fears.

And FWIW, our precinct captain, a woman also, supported Ron Paul. Not sure how local leaders lose their perspective, but both should not be holding their Democratic leadership positions anymore.

There have been some very noteworthy posts on DU in the past couple weeks about how WE will or can change as we usher in a new Democratic administration. How much we are willing to change to thoughtfully consider new ways of approaching problems, criticizing the idea/not the person, etc. I would add your post to recents posts of Plaid Adder and H2OMan as all reflect the fact that not all Democrats are letting go of the fear and anger generated by eight long years of emotional and physical abuse by this administration. If we could all have group therapy sessions on letting go and moving forward, that would be amazingly healthy.

Thank you for sharing your experience here. It has helped me understand a bit better those who are hanging on to their support of Senator Clinton.

[rucky]

44. She brought it up, and asked for your opinion.

As a way to get her opinion out there, and find people who feel the same.

Respectful disagreement is the best you can do in that situation.

[Marrah_G]

45. Some people were driven mad by the primaries- people on BOTH sides

There are folks who wanted Hillary and will rage forever about how evil Obama is. There are folks who wanted Obama and will rage forever about how evil Hillary is.

I feel bad for both groups. How sad for them to go through the day delusional and seething hatred.

[nashville_brook]

46. wow TS -- i really love your writing and I couldn't agree more.

i stayed away from GD-P for the same reasons. i have the same anxiety about the future given the anger that's being held close. i was a member of the "ham sandwich on rye" coalition. thank you for posting such a poignant observation. it really resonates with me.

[rhett o rick]

50. Thanks you for the great post and nice greeting. I agree with the post above about racism.

This election has revealed the underlying racism in this country. Prior to PE Obama's nomination, many people could hide it and it was kinda unspoken. But his nomination brought it to the surface. I think it will be kind of make-or-break issue for this country. Can we deal with it and end this deep-seated racism?

My 90 y/o mother in law is fairly opened minded and progressive about most things. However, her racism sneaks out here and there. When PE Obama was nominated, all of a sudden she started fining stupid excuses why Obama shouldn't be supported. All were lame excuses not to say what she really thinks.

The next four years are going to be very difficult and would be for any president, but I think especially for PE Obama because it will be so easy for the haters to blame everything on his "race". I am using the haters definition of race not my own.

I heard somewhere and agree that humans are either one race or an infinite number of races. Any other definition is arbitrary.

[yardwork]

57. I agree.

[DCKit]

96. I believe fear was a bigger factor than racism.

Fear that Obama *couldn't* be elected - because of perceived racism. My personal experience is social/business contact with about a dozen black men and women who supported Hillary stridently, then (seemingly) lost all hope when Obama won the nomination, then went into a blissful stupor when he was elected. Several were on board, even rabid Obama supporters, after the nomination, but (aside from the fact that I live in DC where 94% of the vote is (D)) they were NOT hopeful.

Too many, black and white, just didn't think we could elect an off-white President and fear was the driver. These people - and women of every color - certainly never thought they'd see it in their lifetimes, but I've never seen my personal contacts happier - all the time, every day. They're all glowing like they're pregnant with their first kid, without all the hormone drama. All of them. Even the guys.

The angry white women? They thought a white woman would be elected (and "deserved" the post)before a man of color, which leaves me suspecting racism COUPLED with sexism as well as fear of failure (not to mention all the allegorical evidence of the other posters of control, physical and mental abuse)drove this election. We got past the biggest barrier with this election, so there's no reason a qualified woman of ANY shade can't be our next President - as long as she's not some bimbo from Alaska (also, youbetcha).

I have my own issues with HRC, but this election proves that, finally and truly, any citizen can become President. Personally, I'm hoping that the kids who do well in school will stop being criticized or being told "you're acting white" when they get good grades. This SOB is a hell of a role model for all our kids and I'm already praying for two terms. If we ever needed anyone to set an example for the kids and give them a reason to learn, P.E. Obama is IT. Jeebus, his speeches are an English lesson.

My friends and associates are converts and, with the exception of Richards, I wanted everyone but BHO or HRC to win the election, but I'm on board now. Anyone who claims to be a Democrat and still opposes Obama has other issues and, in my opinion, may as well register as a Lieberman Republicrat and relinquish any seat on, or in, any Democratic organization.

You can't call yourself a Democrat if you voted for Geezer&Gidget because Hillary didn't win the nomination.

[Mike 03]

66. Tremendous Post. I share your vulnerability.

I thought I had some intelligent response to your post, but it has elicited so many emotions that I'm finding it hard to put them into succinct words.

There's no choice but to move towards the light.

There are people who don't even see the light, and it's hard to guide them. Maybe it's a waste of time. I know people like that.

But what's left? I helped to elect this man. I'm going to run myself dry trying to help him achieve what I elected him to achieve.

Namaste

Let me feel the truth
Let me speak the truth
Let me know the truth

[SidneyCarton]

67. I appriciate your well-reasoned consideration of this mess.

I have little to add but praise, so I shall leave it at that.

K&R

[Mike 03]

69. Rec, by the way. NT

[Festivito]

76. One thing, agree THAT we disagree, not TO disagree.

I'll continue to find WHERE we disagree.

I stayed out of GDP also. Was not necessary for me.

Well wishes on your attempt to be delicate and sensitive.

[LWolf]

80. It's telling that

you assumed that, if she was a female democrat who was not a fan of Obama, she must be a Clinton supporter.

I have to tell you that I'm a female democrat who is not now, and never has been, a fan of Barack Obama OR Hillary Clinton, and that doesn't make me a McCain/Palin supporter, either.

I don't know what her issues are. I do know that the constant, perpetual expectation that "we" all love Obama, and are in rapture over his election; that there is something "wrong" with dissenters, can be wearing, to say the least.

I wish that more people could see beyond the black/white, either/or, right/left, them/us framing of every group and every issue.

:shrug:

I don't think we'll all be pulling together until we have a common vision of where we are going, and the stark reality is that we don't.

I can commit to this much: when we find common ground, I will pull with you.

[JerseygirlCT]

82. That vitriol sounds uncomfortably familiar to me

and I don't understand it any better from your story, I'm afraid.

There's just no reason for it. None. It's frightening to me, because it's so completely unhinged.

It sounds as though you did well with a very difficult situation. I applaud you for that.

And congrats on your "new" car! I loved my Forester - I hope you enjoy yours as much!

[kiranon]

83. Sorry, I don't believe your tale. All the Clinton supporters I know backed Obama.

And, Hillary will be the new SOS so how can any Clinton supporter be unhappy?

[Pale Blue Dot]

87. I'm going to defend the OP, who you obviously dont know.

I've known him at DU for almost 6 years now, and I have never once none him to lie. I have never even seen him be in the least bit argumentative. His post above is the most passionate I've seen him, and if he wanted to spin a tale, he had plenty of opportunities during the primaries. I was in GDP almost every day during the primaries, and I don't even remember seeing him in there at all.

Frankly, you picked the wrong guy to call a liar. He is the least likely person I know to make up a story like this on this site, and I include my wife and I in that assessment.

[JanMichael]

93. backing up what FinnFan wrote

Seen this poster for years.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

97. Aww...Finny...

Thanks, bubba.

Your check will be in the mail on monday. :evilgrin:

[clyrc]

86. I've got a more hopeful story for you

My mom is a Dem, but she is unabashedly racists and she wasn't happy about Obama winning. She couldn't vote for McCain, but she couldn't vote for Obama either. I called her on Thanksgiving, and she shocked the hell out of me by telling me that it made her angry when her long time republican friend criticized Obama. My mom defended Obama! When I got off the phone, I was all over the house telling my husband, kids and friends that mom defended Obama! It made the day just that much better for me, and made me hopeful that if she can be won over,others can, too.

[cemaphonic]

95. Yeah, this election made for some strange realignments.

My Grandpa, an 85-year-old White Christian Male, who has voted Republican all his life voted for Obama this time around. That's a demographic tailor-made for McCain.

He is appalled at the wreck that Bush and pals have made of the economy (and having betrayed the traditional Republican commitment to small government and fiscal conservatism), and thought that Palin was dangerously unqualified.