The Twilight Series books, movie--what message is it sending to young

[JanMichael]

women?

I have not read the books, but have younger females in the family enthusiastically reading them, and giving us plot lines. To say the least, what I am hearing is disturbing as hell.

The main character--the vampire-- sounds more like a stalker than a love nutty "teen." Over 100 years old, he is still in High School, and at various points in the books locks the girl character in a basement, takes the engine out of her vehicle, and has her kidnapped by his sister-- all to keep her from seeing friends, or other guys. This is supposed to show love?

The birth scene in the last book sounds so disgusting that my wife won't read it, and she's a former paramedic. Apparently that involves a caesarean section by fang? WTF?

I wouldn't much give a damn, but these are best sellers-- being applauded by women for their daughters to read because they encourage abstinence until marriage. However, the books seem to encourage girls to give up school for abusive stalkers who will live forever.

Good book, or a symptom of a sick society?

[yardwork]

1. It sounds sick. I haven't read them or heard much about them.

Anything promoting that kind of controlling behavior as "love" is promoting domestic abuse.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. I never read Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn, but I hear they promote slavery and child abuse.

My only conclusion (no matter how unfounded) is that this society has been sick for a lot longer than you may think; Probably longer that Edward has been a vampire.

(OK, so i really did read Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, but when he takes advantage of his friends and gets them to white wash the fence for him it sends a message that wall street can exploit Americans at will.)

[JanMichael]

27. I agree.

This society has been sick for a long time.

[yardwork]

53. Yes, Tom Sawyer is a total fascist. I precursor to today's "values voters." Mark Twain was right.

[acmavm]

116. Well it is obvious that you need to read 'em. Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn

DO NOT promote slavery and child abuse. Exactly the opposite.

Par for the course.

[John Q. Citizen]

118. It's obvious you never read my message, just the headline. Par for the...

[acmavm]

123. No, I read your message.

[liberal N proud]

2. Go see the movie with an open mind

It might relieve your fears.

I saw it last night with my 15 y/o daughter. Following the movie we talked about it. She has a pretty healthy attitude knowing it is purely fiction.

The vampire is more of a guardian than stalker IMO.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. That makes me feel better. I'm taking my 12yo this afternoon.

The one thing I can say is that the books have totally engrossed her and she is back to developing a true love for reading, not just reading for schoolwork.

[seabeyond]

6. give us a critique afterwards please. ty. n/t

[JanMichael]

13. I agree, I would like to hear a review from you also.

nt

[Midlodemocrat]

68. Back from the movie. Here's my take.

First of all, the only time it got remotely interesting was when the vampires were fighting. Other than that, :snooze:

I didn't get the impression that the vampire, at least in this first book, was all that bad of a guy. He seemed to really care about the protangonist. It seemed to me, anyway, that she was more stalkerish than he was.

I don't think there's a 'message' being sent to young girls, because let's return to reality, folks. Vampires don't exist. The author can make up and claim anything she wants to about them.

JMHO. YMMV.

[seabeyond]

76. gracias..... wink. n/t

[JanMichael]

85. Thank you for your review

There are some more perspectives on the book down thread that add something to this discussion also. Most of what I am getting is that people over forty (with one exception) are totally bored with the books and movies.

I have to tell you, if you could have heard some of the girls in our family talking about this story, it would have given you haves--

[Midlodemocrat]

95. No problem. Say hi to Steph for me!

[walldude]

41. Bingo! I can't believe I have to read a thread like this on DU.

"she is back to developing a true love for reading". Nothing in the world is better for a child than to learn to love to read. And any idiot who wants to come in here and complain about BOOKS should have the crap slapped out of them.

Maybe the OP can support the http://www.christiansagainstcartoons.com/ website as well. You know Dora, Clifford are promoting satanism and Spongebob is gay.

[JanMichael]

47. This is the OP.

NOTHING in the original thread said one damned word about censoring these books. Not one word. Get over yourself. We are concerned about the wrong message of helplessness, "love", and stalking, abusive behavior being portrayed as acceptable. This post was to read other people's opinions.

And where did your ridiculous "Christian" comments come from?

[walldude]

51. This is not the OP! Get over yourself

and if you consider that "Christian Comment" ridiculous well they are no more ridiculous than your pathetic rantings about Twilight. And they amount to the same thing. Some asshole wanting to shove his values down someone elses throat.

If you don't want to censor what is you want? Or were you just bitching for the hell of it?

You know what? Let me just give up on DU right here. This place is a waste of my time. Bye all.

[G_j]

83. holy shit!

I took the OP as looking for a discussion on a current cultural phenomenon.

:shrug:

[JanMichael]

86. Yeah. I was. This poster's reply left me unable to hit

"reply."

S/he's been around awhile, and I was just shocked at what was taken out of my OP.

Hey, good to see you!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

99. Many people on this board have this bizarre problem of confusing criticism and censorship

They really do think freedom of speech and expression means freedom from any kind of criticism.

[JanMichael]

7. We are in our forties, and have no children

I don't think we will see it; just not interested.

I was just listening to the conversations yesterday, and was pretty well shocked.

Just out of curiosity, why would you consider it even remotely healthy to have/ marry a guardian who ends up destroying her humanity? Does a perfectly healthy young woman with a good family and support group of friends need an undead guardian?

I am not trying to argue--I really think this is one bizarre storyline.

[hfojvt]

23. "destroying her humanity"

But not her identity. Many shows and books have given things from a vampire point of view. Christopher Pike's "The Last Vampire" series of books for example and "Moonlight" and "Buffy the Vampire slayer/ (okay I cannot remember the name, but the dude now plays the lead male on 'Bones') the TV shows. Clearly it is a cool thing to be a vampire - they can leap over small buildings, they have super speed, super strength, super hearing and super smell, and they 'live' forever unless they are killed, and they are clearly very hard to kill. Granted, there is a bit of blood-lust and killing, but again a) it's a cool thing to be able to kill your enemies (the good vampires tend to only kill 'bad' humans just like many super-heroes they take the law into their own hands) and b) they satisfy most of their blood requirements by drinking donated blood.

[Thickasabrick]

37. The show was "Angel". I loved it and the guys name is David Boreanaz

I like Bones too but not much as Buffy and the Angle series.

[AnnieBW]

80. Also, HBO's "True Blood"

Based on the Sookie Stackhouse mystery series. It's the grown-up version of "Twilight".

[davsand]

121. We JUST saw that a couple nights ago.

We don't have HBO here st home and caught that show when we were traveling for Thanksgiving. It is a kinda cajun vampire thing, and we thought it was just goofy as hell.

Our 11 year old loves vampires and horror fiction, but that particular show is WAY too adult for a kid, I think.

Are the books worth reading?


Laura

[hendo]

4. Im surprised

that the feminists arent up in arms about it yet. Feminist groups sure did tear into Harry Potter, and from everything that I have seen and heard, Twilight is much worse.

[JanMichael]

10. my wife is flipping out-- and she likes the Potter books

Hermione is portrayed as a girl who not only believes she can be smarter than boys-- she proves it. There were some pretty tough Quidditch female players too.

[XemaSab]

Not to mention Bellatrix

;)

[hendo]

30. Yup

I always thought it was odd when feminist groups spoke ill of Potter. As you say Hermione is a great role model for young girls.

[Realityhack]

117. I agree.

Great character. And there were other strong female characters in the series.

[hendo]

131. Tonks was my favorite character

It pissed me off with Rowling killed her.

[lightningandsnow]

44. Feminist groups tore into Harry Potter?

I'm a feminist, and I think I missed this...

[hendo]

55. I seem to remember quite a few

I'll google a couple examples:

http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2000/01/13/potter/index.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=LiWrXUHgnL8C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=feminism+harry+potter&source=web&ots=Yz7OovvYcu&sig=WDJyy3zAAWSAxoUn349x36tTcxM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

[AnnieBW]

82. Umm... Hermione? Ginny? Tonks?

Nope. No strong female role models in the Harry Potter series... None at all...

:sarcasm:

[keroro gunsou]

108. and don't forget

harry's mother and mrs. weasley. that is one lady i wouldn't want to fuck with....

i'd say luna lovegood is a decent role model, she stands up for what she believes in, no matter how silly it may seem at first.

[AnnieBW]

127. I loved that smackdown that Mrs. W put on Bellatrix

at the end of Book 7. I was waiting for Neville to take out Bellatrix as payback for his Mum and Dad. But Mrs. Weasley kicked ass and took names there at the end!

[keroro gunsou]

133. wasn't what i envisioned...

i had envisioned neville using a summoning charm on bella...

"accio HEART... *insert loud, nauseating splorching sound here* ," and that's all she wrote. literally.

[hendo]

110. thats why I never understood it

nt

[semillama]

106. Feminists groups teared into Harry Potter?

I must have missed that one. What was the beef and which groups were pissed?

[MadMaddie]

5. I am reading the first book

And both teens could be considered love sick stalkers. The boy isn't stalking her, he is protecting her because death is knocking on her door.
The books are well written.

The most important thing to realize is that this is fiction and the kids are actually picking up the books and reading them.

You should read the books.

I am glad the kids are actually reading.

[seabeyond]

11. i let my kids have so much freedom in reading choices. much much more than tv watching, or movies

really restrictive there. but reading.... go for it.

i am a big fan of reading, a book a day, about, lol and i havent picked up this book for some reason. maybe i will give it a read. thanks for your opinion.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. Kind of how I feel, too.

Here at the elementary school, they have this program called Accelerated Reading. The kids test out at a reading level choose and read books at that level and are then tested on the book.

They need a certain number of 'points' each quarter.

My son, who is a terrible student even though I love him dearly, tested out an 11th grade reading level in 5th grade. Problem was, the only books that the school purchased at that level for the program were presidential biographies.

What 10yo boy wants to read those?

I ended up purchasing the tests for the Lord of the Ring series so that he would have something to read and get his points on.

And, of course, now he despises reading because all the joy went out of it when it became an assignment.

It disgusts me what we've done to education in this country.

[LibDemAlways]

17. My daughter's middle school had the AR program too.

Nothing like forcing kids to choose from a proscribed list of books and setting a timetable for them to read one and be tested on it. That certainly fosters a love of reading - not.

[seabeyond]

24. i loved the program for my boys. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

70. I HATED that program. Absolutely hated it.

Fortunately, my kids are starting to read for pleasure again now that they are out of elementary school. But, during that program. Jeez. And these are kids who were taken to Barnes and Noble every damned week when they were little to pick out a book.

[LibDemAlways]

98. Reading ought to be painless and pleasurable for

school age kids. They should be able to pick out most anything they want (with parental oversight) and have the freedom to read at their leisure with no test looming over their heads. Coercive reading never turned anybody into a lover of books.

[seabeyond]

21. What 10yo boy wants to read those? .... mine, lol. my oldest in

2nd, 3rd grade refused to read fiction. fourth i started doing all kinds of things to encourage fiction. both boys did accelerated reading, both way high scores and were able to go to public library (connected with schools) for lists of more interesting books.

i loved this program cause i had exactly the opposite opinion of the program and since both kids excelled, how they enjoyed the challenge of how many books and the more advanced books, helping in confidence with both boys

forever i have told inlaws buy books for boys as presents. in laws hate and refuse it. my oldest kid loves getting books. youngest, not as much, but still an enthused reader. got him hooked in a series now. (i always look for a good series for kids).

my boys arent usual either. we hardly ever have tv on. computers, yes. books, yes. not tv.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. This is John Q. Citezen's 12 year old daughter, and I completely agree!

Thanx for reading the book, before posting your opinion.

[seabeyond]

31. good for you

jumping on the board, giving your opinion.

i have son do it too with topics he is interested in.

thumbs up

[JanMichael]

74. Then maybe your father should explain the

difference between a Lit Review, and a post on an internet message board about conversations with family members.

If you and your Dad will read the original post, then you will notice that we are asking for opinions from people who are familiar with the story line-- and only stating what we heard during a conversation.

[John Q. Citizen]

97. You are looking for people who are familiar in a second hand way like yourself or

are you looking for people who have read the book?

My daughter read all four books. she likes them, and has had conversation with me about the books. She says your characterization is off, no matter where you got your info.

I heard a segment on NPR (probably "All Thing Considered") about the series and how widely popular it is. They spoke to a librarian who had read the books and she said their appeal is in chivalrous vampire. A vampire who puts his baser nature in check for love.

Sounds quite romantic, doesn't it?

I suggest you click on over to the NPR site and have a listen. There's a few related pieces on it and you will have a richer and broader view of the subject matter. I think they also do an interview with the author.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90321831

http://twilightseriestheories.com/tag/npr/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97533912&ft=1&f=1008&sc=YahooNews

John Q Citizen.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

87. "The books are well-written."

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[theboss]

8. It sounds aimed at fat girls who REALLY would marry a vampire if they could

Which - from my vantage point - now appears to be 32 percent of high school girls in this country.

[AnnieBW]

84. Fat girls are juicier!

Vamps don't like skinny girls. They don't produce enough blood! :D

[LibDemAlways]

9. My 15 year old daughter and her friends love those books

and have devoured all four. My daughter doesn't much like to read for pleasure, so I was actually happy to see her reading. As for the message, the girls are mostly interested in the character of Edward because he's "hot." That's their hormones talking. My daughter saw the movie version the day it opened, and every time the Edward character appeared on the screen, the girls went crazy. I don't think it's a symptom of anything. It's just the latest fad.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. I think you should read the books before you jump to conclusions.

According to my daughter (who loves the books) The main character is protecting bella from James, who is trying to kill her, and her friends and family.

I suggest you read them first then write about them.

[MineralMan]

15. Teaching that reading is fun?

Seems like a good idea to me. I read lots of junky crap when I was a kid. I also read a lot of good stuff. But I read...and read...and read. All of that has served me well all my life.

Kids know what's fiction. They recognize fantasy. They know that vampires aren't real. If they read, I'm a happy guy.

[ShortnFiery]

38. "I read lots of junky crap ..." Me too! I experience the foregoing sentiment each morning

immediately after perusing the Editorial Section of The Washington Post. :P :hi:

[MineralMan]

49. Yes, indeed...

It takes a lot of crap to fertilize an entire field.

[Thickasabrick]

16. I heard it was preaching abstinence....no?

[JanMichael]

18. It is. But, at what price?

I don't know--I am telling you-- listening to young women describe stalker behavior and giggling was a bit weird. The birth scene-- well-- disgusting.

[Thickasabrick]

29. A birth scene? I didn't want to see the movie because it was a

teen flick and I think it's still stupid to preach abstinence only to teenagers - preach safe sex at least with it!!

Now that you told me about a yucky birth scene - I gotta admit, I'm curiouser and curiouser.

[JanMichael]

32. I think you'll have to wait for that-- my understanding is

that comes in the third book.

[LisaL]

60. Hello. The author is not obligated to preach something

when writing a book.

[JanMichael]

66. No. The author isn't. However, we, as consumers, and readers ARE

in fact obligated to question the messages that are imparted, just as we are now--because of our truly nasty, ugly assed society and free capitalistic shitty society OBLIGATED to question the ingredients in our food, our medications, indeed, even in the unhealthy assed dog food that is shipped over from China.

So, I asked a fucking question pertaining to conversations held at Thanksgiving. An excellent poster towards the end of this thread posted a thoughtful, refreshing view of what he gleaned from the book, and I am looking forward to reading another couple of reviews.

This society is unhealthy as hell. If you haven't gathered that from reading DU, or just walking down the fucking street looking at this consumeristic horseshit that has eaten up the soul of this country, well---whatever. I asked a question: "Is this book promoting unhealthy ideas of love to young people?" I made it DAMNED clear that by unhealthy I meant "abusive."

You think that isn't worth asking? You think that isn't worth knowing?

I don't give a flying rat's goddamned ass if the female character is having an obsessive relationship with a talking german shepherd. However, if the male dog is locking her in basements, or having her kidnapped so that she conforms to HIS standards of what is acceptable, then I give a big shit.

Does that answer your questions? At all?

Is it OK to ask for other's opinions of literature without posting a fucking lit review first?

[LisaL]

69. You could at the very least have read it first.

[JanMichael]

72. Excuse me. I made it VERY clear in the OP that this thread was

about conversations with younger family members yesterday that were disturbing based upon this book and movie.

I COULD NOT have made it clearer.

If you need a lit review, then I suggest that you either start a thread, or read it and create one.

[madmom]

19. Just like we said to the fundies about their Harry Potter obsession, as long as the kids know

these books are works of fiction what's the harm.Kids are smarter than we give them credit for.If it's getting them interested in reading, what's the harm?

[JanMichael]

25. We aren't concerned with the science fiction/non human element at all.

Our concern is about the potentially abusive behavior of the young male character towards the girl-- and how it is portrayed as "love" to lock a girl in a basement, destroy her car, etc. Stalking, and abusive behavior is NOT science fiction.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. You are concerned about something you haven't read? Has it occured to 7you that you may not know

what you are writing about?

[madmom]

58. That's why we talk to our kids and let them know about stuff like this!

[AlCzervik]

20. many them seem to get it, my 14 year daughter refers to to main guy a "emo stalker boy"

she's read all the books and was looking forward to the movie until all the super giddy fan girls at school talked about nonstop for 2 months, now she doesn't want to see the movie.

She also forced herself to finish the 4th book, she thinks it was poorly written, i haven't read any of them so i have no idea.

[JanMichael]

26. Interesting.

I wish she would post a review from a teenage girl's perspective that apparently goes against the norm.

[AlCzervik]

33. she actually got into kind of an argument with one particular fan girl at school, the day

Twilight opened about 15 of them wore Shirts that had a picture of the main guy on it and one of them was talking about him at lunch like he was real so my daughter said "You get he's fictional right, he can't come into your life and take you away...right?" and she just wasn't having any of it, she was convinced the guy---not the actor was out there somewhere. My niece is almost 15 and she has no desire to see it either because of the fanatics, she told it's been ruined for her.

I totally get that btw, after reading Anne Rice's books and then hearing about the movie i was like----nooooo!

[gater]

34. No literary discussion should ever include the phrase, "I haven't read it, but..."

Ever!!!

[ShortnFiery]

36. That has to be one of the wisest things noted here on DU.

Nope, perusing the Cliff Notes Version will not suffice. :P

One must read at least one book in the series in order to provide a half-assed educated opinion. :evilgrin: :hi:

[AlCzervik]

39. agreed, i hear complaints about the show "24" but since i have never seen it i cannot comment.

just like "Lost" and a myriad of other programs, haven't seen them.

[ShortnFiery]

42. You haven't missed anything.

My better half forced me to sit through an episode of "Lost" when it first came out. :puke: Would have had more fun watching Telemundo even though I've only had two years of college Spanish.

Too bad that full hour of my life was ... er um ... LOST! ;)

[AlCzervik]

45. sometimes we watch sabato gigante, i think it's on univision and it's hilarious

plus my daughter has been taking Spainish forever so it helps her out.

[Posteritatis]

94. And yet they always do. Depressing, isn't it? (nt)

[JanMichael]

96. I made it as clear as possible in the OP

that this thread was about conversations with family members over Thanksgiving.

IF you need a lit review, please find other sources.

This thread is about asking opinions from DUers who have read the books or seen the movie.

Sorry that you, just like the 12 year old child, are unable to discern the difference.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

100. I dunno about that. I've never read a single volume in the "Left Behind" series

And I can fairly confidently say they are a pile of shit, judging from the fans of those books.

Ditto Ayn Rand. I got through six paragraphs of Atlas Shrugged before throwing it across the room. I know pretty much all I need to know about her oeuvre by observing her acolytes.

[fishwax]

101. people shouldn't ask questions about books they haven't read?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

40. I saw the movie w/ my 13 yr old niece.

It's a harmless teenage romance about the usual fish-out-of-water mopey teens falling in love.

It's just that this one has mopey teen vampires. It's all very dark and dour and serious...and I couldn't stop laughing.

[seabeyond]

43. It's all very dark and dour and serious.... oh that is funny having teens myself. lol

further, i see you thought it was funny too. lol

[Lucian]

46. It's telling them that crappy books are good...

when they aren't.

[kestrel91316]

48. Maybe I'm weird. I don't take my cues on how to behave toward people

from FANTASY characters in FANTASY fiction.

I look at SCI FI and FANTASY fiction as entertainment, and I view the characters with a critical eye.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

102. I wish someone would clue Libertarians into that.

Sadly, many of them do think that fantasy and science fiction plots are templates for economic and political systems.

[phaseolus]

50. From what I've seen online...

...for every drooling fangirl who loves the series, there's another who thinks the books are silly and poorly written.

My fifteen year old daughter came to that conclusion halfway through the second book, and now makes fun of the series every chance she gets. She went to the movie with a couple friends, and laughed through the whole thing. She thinks it's campy and hilarious.

So, independent thought isn't dead.

[Bucky]

52. Moral panic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

I have a hard time imagining some teenage girl reading this book and deciding "Hey, I'd like to get preggers so I can have a fang-assisted C-section, too."

The books sound silly, but then most of the stuff teenaged girls think about is silly. As long as they're reading, they're building skills and expanding their horizons.

[NoPasaran]

54. A hundred years old and still in high school?

What an underachiever!

[Swede]

61. Jethro Bodine syndrome?

Highest in his class? Yeah,by about 3 feet.

[dysfunctional press]

67. a 100-year old guy who likes jailbait...?

what's so strange about that?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

115. "Fifteen'll Get You Twenty . . .

. . . that's alright.
'Cuz they're a-bitin' an' a-suckin'
On a Transylvania Saturday Night!"



Get On The H.O.R.N.!
www.headonradionetwork.com
America's Liberal Voice

[LWolf]

56. I don't know yet.

I have a family of students, and their friends, who were going to see the movie with their Mom over the break. They've been recommending the books to me since we came back to school in September. I haven't gotten to them yet; vampires, and other types of "creepy/horror" fiction just don't interest me, and I keep putting it off.

I will say that my 6th-8th grade students, the girls, anyway, are certainly enthusiastic about them. Which means I should have read them already.

I'll put in a request at the library, and get back to you. ;)

[JanMichael]

57. sounds good

I am looking forward to reading what Midlodem thinks too--I think she's seeing the movie with her daughter this afternoon.

[LisaL]

59. It's a book.

First of all, as others pointed out, you should really read it first before commenting. And second of all, who said the book is always supposed to show or teach you something?

[earth mom]

62. What bugs me is that kids are reading only because the book has a buzz about it

just like what happened with the Harry Potter Series.

I've loved books since I was a kid and able to ride my bike to the library to check out books. Back then I was the nerdy bookworm who got laughed at when I said I wanted to be a librarian when I grew up.

I didn't become a librarian, but I still love books and think it's horrible that most people in this country don't read books except when a book becomes the hot topic on t.v. or the net. :eyes:

[Christian30]

63. I think JanMichael has heard some...

weird things about these books. I'm a 30-something gay guy and I devoured these books. I'm also a huge vampire fan. The books do not "preach" abstinence and some of the things the OP cited Edward doing were wildly taken out of context to sound so awful.

I am seeing the film this afternoon, but I've read all the books and Bella is an interesting character. She's quite ordinary in her way, which is a refreshing change from other heroines, but she has a ton of heart and puts the safety of her family and loved ones, including her child, ahead of her own. That, to me, makes her a feminist icon.

Edward is tortured by his love for her and his fear that being with him will make her a target, which it does. Another plus to his character is that he insists that they wait until marriage for sex. Normally, I would be against this trope, but Bella is 16 when the series begins so I think it's a nice change of pace for the boy to want to wait.

The "birth" is pretty gross, but it is also utterly fantasy, and can't (again) be taken out of its context in order to be criticized.

There are also significant tropes about diverse communities coming together, in this case werewolves and vampires, but there you go.

Anyway, the books are probably appropriate for tweens and up, and I agree with the poster who cautions against criticizing books one has not read.

[JanMichael]

64. Interesting perspective. And you are the ONLY poster

that has read the books, provided perspective, and made me want to read it to get a better idea.

Thank you.

As far as the people who criticized me not reading it for myself first-- this thread was based upon a description of conversations with family members. From there, I asked for opinions. And from there--- well, you read the rest.

I am looking forward to Midlodemocrats review of the film, too--

Thanks for your post.

[TimeChaser]

65. Well gee,

When I was in middle school/high school, I read some pretty fucked up stuff. I recognized it was fantasy. Even when the author's political views or morality was visible, I could sit back and disagree with them while still enjoying their story. Give kids some credit.

[SunnyBaudelaire]

71. These books are quite harmless, I think.

My daughter read the entire series, after which I read them. I believe that some of what you heard was taken out of context. In the story Bella, the lead character, is eventually hunted and pursued by another clan of vampires. Edward, the lead vampire male, and his family decide to protect her from this. Edward does have his sister kindly pick up Bella from her house and take her to their family's house, in order to keep a more watchful eye on her. I think at one point in the series Edward does take a part out of her truck because he doesn't want her out without protection. He does not kidnap her or prevent her from seeing her friends. Excluding the werewolves, which he believes are dangerous. I didn't think the books were written that well and I thought the 100-year-old high school student part was odd, but in no way did I find it offensive.

[JanMichael]

73. Thank you for that review

Honestly, there have been two thoughtful reviews on this thread that are making me wonder if my younger female relatives were being ummmmm melodramatic. ;) However, we were pretty concerned, as you can well imagine after eight years of Conservative Thought assault courtesy of the Bush Administration.

[Midlodemocrat]

129. I took my daughters to see the movie yesterday and I agree with what you say.

I think they're pretty harmless. The 100 year old part is a bit, I agree, but I think he explained it well, in that the younger they start out someplace, the longer they get to stay.

I liked the vegan aspect as well and I liked the idea of controlling one's impulses.

I haven't read the books, my 12yo currently is, but I don't see a problem with them at all.

[WI_DEM]

75. I think it's sending the message that vampires aren't the real spooks rather it is mortal man.

Isn't that deep?

[pitohui]

77. well vampires are not nice people, how would you expect a vampire to act?

i haven't read this series, i'm sick as hell of the whole vampire genre, but "stalking" is pretty much what vampires do -- i wouldn't expect a vampire story to involve a lot of holding hands, it's supposed to be violent and gorey and (in some of the woman penned series) "sexy"

have you read laurell k. hamilton -- what message does that send? hell it doesn't send any message, it's just pornography with a more respectable package than "penthouse variation letters"

girls and women read these for whack off material basically -- it doesn't go any deeper

[buzzycrumbhunger]

78. I've read them. . .

and I have to say they're crap, but a fast read (despite the fact we're talking over 700 pages by the last one). That a publisher could let a book--let alone four--go out with that many problems (typos, messed-up perspective, etc.) is odd, but I think it's becoming par for the course in publishing these days. If an author wants a great product, they apparently have to pay their own editor to do it right.

This is not to say the author is any great shakes. She's not. How she got out of BYU without a better grasp of her craft is beyond me.

Which brings me to what may be the biggest problem with the story--it's vampires, yes, but from a Mormon slant. No sex until marriage, just lots of titillation and brooding stares. WTF kind of vampire story isn't all about sex? Oh--and it's got werewolves, too. :eyes: The worst part of all, IMHO, is that the girl is such a weak example for the readers slobbering over the story. She spends the whole thing allowing herself to flounder around instead of using her head. She's a square peg and thinks her destiny is to give up everything to get a boy (a 108-year-old "boy"--who is still in HS, BTW, because they have to keep moving around and starting over to cover the fact they don't appear to age. He's also been to college repeatedly, FWIW.) The family dynamics are just not what I expected out of the people who gave us the Osmonds, and the biggest mystery is that these are exactly the people falling all over themselves because of it, encouraging their teenage daughters to go apeshit over it. WTF?

I think it boils down to the same kind of frenzy the fundamentalist christians went through with the Left Behind shit--abysmal writing, story strung out to twice the originally intended length, and simply packaged in a way that makes them enthusiastic about supporting crap simply because it's marketed at their religious beliefs.

I predict that this, too, will be a fad that burns out before they even have a chance to get to the last movie (OMG--they've already started planning for #2) because only the core believers will have patience to hang around that long. I only read it because my son's GF insisted he read it and he'd passed the first book on to me for my opinion (and I'm a compulsive reader who almost never has sense to abandon a story once committed. . .) By the time the ending finally rolled around, I was pretty disgusted at the anticlimactic way they wrapped it up. Well. . . it's not exactly wrapped up neatly--there is obviously room to keep the story going. I just got the feeling that even the author was burnt out at that point and probably won't bother. Unless greed calls.

[fed_up_mother]

88. "WTF kind of vampire story isn't all about sex? "

Ummmm...the kind written for tweens?

:)

[buzzycrumbhunger]

90. Ugh. I guess so. . .

but I think it's a crime against the genre. Take the eroticism out of vampires and it's just. . . Disney.

I guess I'm a bad mommy. My kids would have never gotten all worked up over something like this. I've found it much more effective to be permissive so there's been nothing to rebel against. :P

[fed_up_mother]

92. Well, I'm very "conservative" about what my tweens read

In my opinion, there's a big difference between a twelve year old and a sixteen year old.

Or - at least - there should be. :(

[AnnieBW]

79. 100 years old and still in high school?

I think the message is that their school is REALLY TOUGH. Either that, or the vamp likes to pick up teenaged fang-bangers.

Frankly, I'm watching the grown-up version on HBO. It's called "True Blood".

[Iggo]

113. The explanation (in the movie) was...

...the vamps are teenagers so wherever they go they have to enroll in school to maintain their cover. Of course it never crossed my mind that maybe they should stop creating teenage vampires, but I wasn't thinking that hard about it.

[MindPilot]

125. Wanna do some "V"?

OMFG I love that show! The term fangbanger cracks me up every time I hear it and the church marque in the opener that says "God hates Fangs" is too good. And that theme song makes my neighbors appreiciate the power of my home theater system.

This is a show that can deliver lines like "mommy he looks white just like us."

"Honey, he's not white; we're white. He's dead."

[Avalon Sparks]

81. I've read all 4 books....

Loved them all! I'm a 44yr woman without kids and I loved the books. They are an easy read, but what a great love story. Bella is an awkward, accident prone teenager - she is also sarcastic and very funny. She and the other characters are well developed in the series.

Edward is always there to protect her and she is crazy in love with him. I'd go as far to say that she's obsessed with him - and at time's it is heartbreaking. The birth scene was in the 4th book and it was somewhat disgusting. A lot of fans did not like that part of the book.

I've been reading since I was 4, and the Twilight series is a definite favorite. The author is an adequate writer, but it's really the story that I loved. I could not put the books done once I started reading. I cried like a baby when I finished the last one.

[rainbow4321]

91. They got my 17 yr old reading

And I can't think of the last time she picked up a book except for a school assignment. She was holed up in her room last night and only came out long enough to talk to my 21 yr old (who was pretty much born with a book in her hand) about something that had happened in the book that made her start to cry.
She and her sis went to see the movie for the second time last night.

[JanMichael]

93. Do you think she'll read more after this?

?

[rainbow4321]

103. Would like to think so, but I have my doubts

I imagine she will get thru the series and be done reading, unfortunately. Unlike her big sis, she is not a reader. Big sis would even bring a book to the MOVIES to read during the pre-movie ads and previews....would bring a book to the table to read while eating. You would think some of this would rub off on little sis but it didn't.:shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

119. But it has, now, and it may. She will want to love another book after this one.

She may never read to the same level of exclusion of other things like your oldest, but my bet is she now knows the power of books. Once learned we never forget.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

89. Terrible book.

And series of books. Terribly written (I have never encountered so much purple prose in my life) and with a terrible storyline, too. Yay, girls--give up EVERYTHING ELSE in your life to be with a pervy Victorian vampire who stalks you as you sleep.

Pathetic.

[Nevernose]

104. I was just about to post something similar

The biggest crime is that they're poorly written. They make J.K. Rowling look like Melville.

[Christian30]

105. I agree that they are not Joan Didion

but I don't have any issue with the plot just the execution. I also see no evidence that the author's Mormonism plays a key role in the mythology or the lack of sex. In fact, I don't see Bella giving up anything besides being "ordinary" to be with Edward; a fantasy people of all ages and genders share.

[Ms. Toad]

107. Lighten up -

go check out the books from the library, go to the movie - stop relying on what you overhear others saying about the books - either younger members of your family or folks on DU. Once you've read it or seen the movie, if what you've heard matches what you've heard, go talk to the younger females in the family about who women are portrayed.

As far as I'm concerned, anything that gets kids reading is a good thing. If they're talking about what they read, even better.

[greenbriar]

109. you have a sadly mis informed notion of this story.

and it gets kids reading

[ACTION BASTARD]

111. Latest Harry Potter-like fad. It too shall pass.

[Cleita]

112. Teens seem to love vamp stories.

Back in the nineties I was working supervising a bunch of teenagers and they were all into Ann Rice's vampire stories. They even got me to read some of them. I don't think they are any more dangerous than a lot of Sci-Fi stuff that teen fans also love that are dripping with violence, and inter-species sex. I'm hoping they only look upon them as escapism and not to be taken seriously. It's true, the gore like the caesarean section would best be left to the imagination and not gone into detail IMHO.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

114. My angst-ridden teen has read it

No ill effects thusfar beyond the usual moping, mooning (no, not THAT kind!) and staring wistfully into space.

I'm more disturbed by the fact that the author is a Mor(m)on and have asked my daughter to tell me if she runs across any passages about vampires or their victims being saved by magic underwear, or folks flying in from Planet Kolob. She's also under orders to let me know if the vampire takes multiple victims or finds a sacred golden vampire book in upstate New York that he can only read by looking into a hat. Then we'll have to talk.

The Mor(m)on Church has been curiously silent regarding the questionable relationship between one woman and one vampire.


Get On The H.O.R.N.!
www.headonradionetwork.com
America's Liberal Voice

[bevoette]

120. i don't care...at least they're READING!

tv, video games, texting, computer games...

kids are rapidly losing the skill and art of the written word

they can read cereal boxes and romance novels for all i care...just READ!!

[davsand]

124. It doesn't have to be high art as long as they READ!

I am of the mindset that if my 11 year old is reading it doesn't need to be Chekhov, Plato, or Steinbeck as long as she is having fun with the sheer act of picking up a book.

Let's be real frank, here, I read a lot of crap too. Sometimes I pick up something that qualifies as literature, but more often than not, I am reading pop fiction. Being able to recognize the difference is the gift that eduction bestows.



Laura

[Common Sense Party]

122. I have no problem with books that promote abstinence.

Seeing as how 99% of popular culture encourages promiscuousness.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

126. It's the reich-wing's promotion

of abstinence-ONLY that has made all the mess.

"Abstinence-only Education: Brought to you by Fundies . . . denying reality for 2,000 years!"

[Puregonzo1188]

128. I'm probably a tad bit younger than most the other people who posted (I'm in college),

but when I was in Middle School I read lots of books about vampires (and a werewolf). I think this must have been before Twilight, otherwise I'm sure I would have read it, but it sounds like exactly the same plot (100 year old Vampire in high school, love story, it seems to be a formula). I don't feel like they had any adverse effect on me. I also think you're over reacting. Perhaps you should try reading the book before becoming concerned.

[sweetpotato]

130. Could it be a *safe* way to explore rape fantasies?

Surely there's nothing wrong with fantasies, right?

And fiction is often a way to explore those fantasies without actually intending to act on them.

[Forkboy]

132. You lost me at, "I have not read the books".

:shrug:

[Generic Other]

134. I call him the abstinence only vampire

he's dangerous, moons after the girl, but doesn't bite her or go all the way.

Caesarian by fang? Yuck. Land of the virgin vampire placenta eaters!