Obama's attitude toward progressives seems to be:

[leftofthedial]

[leftofthedial]

1. What evidence (outside of Beltway PR and rhetoric) is there

that Obama is a liberal?

[Radical Activist]

6. His entire career and the platform he ran on.

His ratings with environmental groups, unions, the ACLU, civil rights groups, womens rights groups the National Journal and so on.

But it makes some people feel smarter to know that they weren't "duped" into thinking Obama isn't a real TRUE liberal like them.

[lightningandsnow]

7. ...

:applause:

I do think Obama's record on GLBTQQ issues does leave something to be desired, but I am pretty pleased with his record on other social issues.

[Radical Activist]

10. It would be nice

if he supported full marriage rights. But he did co-sponsor the bill that banned discrimination based on sexual orientation in Illinois, so at least he's generally on the right side of the issue.

[leftofthedial]

17. can you give me examples?

[leftofthedial]

16. His "ratings" are part of Beltway PR--they reflect how lobbyists divvy up Congress

at feeding time. By Senate standards he is "liberal" in the sense that he's a little less conservative than most.

I mean real evidence. Show me a courageously principled liberal stand on an issue, bill introduced, accomplishment.

[cali]

18. sure. but I doubt it will make any difference to you.

I'm betting you'll say that it's not really liberal or progressive, or that for some other reason it doesn't count.

<snip>
Consider a bill into which Obama clearly put his heart and soul. The problem he wanted to address was that too many confessions, rather than being voluntary, were coerced -- by beating the daylights out of the accused.

Obama proposed requiring that interrogations and confessions be videotaped.

This seemed likely to stop the beatings, but the bill itself aroused immediate opposition. There were Republicans who were automatically tough on crime and Democrats who feared being thought soft on crime. There were death penalty abolitionists, some of whom worried that Obama's bill, by preventing the execution of innocents, would deprive them of their best argument. Vigorous opposition came from the police, too many of whom had become accustomed to using muscle to "solve" crimes. And the incoming governor, Rod Blagojevich, announced that he was against it.
<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

[leftofthedial]

19. I'll buy that.

thanks. He opposes cops beating confessions out of prisoners.

what about helping American workers?

what about the environment?

what about restoring our civil liberties?

what about a principled commitment to a return to progressive taxation?

what about any other traditionally liberal issue?

[cali]

25. From the same article:

Obama didn't stop there. He played a major role in passing many other bills, including the state's first earned-income tax credit to help the working poor and the first ethics and campaign finance law in 25 years (a law a Post story said made Illinois "one of the best in the nation on campaign finance disclosure"). Obama's commitment to ethics continued in the U.S. Senate, where he co-authored the new lobbying reform law that, among its hard-to-sell provisions, requires lawmakers to disclose the names of lobbyists who "bundle" contributions for them.

An he hasn't really had the opportunity to introduce a lot of legislation in the Senate, but his environmental record is a good one.

His FISA vote sucked. His determination to increase troops in Afghanistan and escalate things there, is another significant mistake, I think.

On social issues, on taxation, on the environment, on diplomacy and many other issues, he's moderately liberal.

His record does not support the contention that he's center right on the majority of issues.

[Radical Activist]

29. Umm...that's what my comment was about.

His ratings for all of those issues by the groups who work on those issues is liberal. But you don't care how unions rate him on labor issues? Or how environmental groups rate him on environmental issues? That's just beltway PR?

[leftofthedial]

31. Given the grotesquely limited liberal agenda in Congress the last 28 years,

an "A" graded on a liberal curve is pretty meaningless.

I want a CHAMPION of workers, not someone who is slightly better than the enemies of workers and therefore gets an impressive-looking, watered-down grade.

Since he was elected to the Senate, we've seen millions more American jobs lost. We've seen the PATRIOT Act continued. We've seen NOTHING done about global warming. We've seen a token increase in the minimum wage--period; a band-aid on a patient that is bleeding out.

[Radical Activist]

35. Here's more beef.

Not that anything will ever change your mind.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/21/164117/783/290/461422

[leftofthedial]

39. he's done some good work, but there is much fluff in your beef.

Senate Bill 2370 was sponsored by Mitch McConnell (R-KY), cosponsored by Obama and 89 others (yes, 91 Senators "sponsored" this bill; not exactly a huge principled liberal leadership position for Obama.) This bill was the anti-Hamas bill, designed to eliminate aid to Palestinian groups that have any dealings with Hamas. It was not "liberal." It was pro-Israel.

Senate Bill 2803 includes much language about safety, the details of which are purely discretionary to an appointed bureaucrat (ring any bailout bells?) and "declares that no one may bring an action against covered individuals or their regular employers for property damage or injury (or deaths) resulting from mine accident rescue operations." So the only actual change it makes, other than defining a bureaucracy to be nominally responsible for administering various reports related to discretionary mining safety, is tort reform.

Senate Bill 2167 extended the PATRIOT Act, which is by any possible measure, the exact OPPOSITE of liberal.

Senate Bills 767 and 768, which he did indeed actually sponsor) were net positives, but if you think requiring average 27.5 mpg by 2013 is some sort of landmark liberal stand in favor of the environment, you might want to buy some beachfront property in Nevada.



I never said he was a neofascist or anything. Of course he voted mostly for environmental legislation. He's way better than, say, Jesse Helms or most other repukes. If you think voting for

[Radical Activist]

37. As a state senator

Its clear that anything which we can measure, record and platform, doesn't matter to you, but for those who are less biased, here's his action in the state senate where he spent most of his career:

But Kennedy said Obama was very accessible to organized labor while in Springfield, and supported bills when asked. Obama voted for state laws that: raised the minimum wage; protected overtime pay; made it easier for public workers to unionize; made it harder for employers to use temporary workers as strikebreakers; gave unemployment benefits to workers locked out in labor disputes; and tightened enforcement of the requirement that workers be paid the prevailing wage on public construction contracts. Obama also supported public financing for major construction projects that put union members to work, including ethanol plants, downtown Chicago’s McCormick Place, and a $9 billion expansion of O’Hare International Airport.

http://www.nwlaborpress.org/2008/9-5-08Pres.html

[leftofthedial]

43. rockin!

I'm glad I voted for him.

Think he'll ever rediscover his "youthful" idealism?

[Radical Activist]

28. The AFL-CIO is just beltway PR?

And the League of Conservation Voters, ACLU, NOW and so on? Have to disagree with you there. That's the progressive movement. The ratings are based on his voting record. I don't a better way to judge someone than their stated platform and their actual voting record. But apparently you came to the conclusion that he's a centrist without looking at his record as measured by any of those groups. Why not do that now?

[leftofthedial]

30. I've looked at his record.

I don't see a champion of labor. I don't see a champion of workers. I don't see someone committed to giving workers a fighting chance against the corporations that are busting unions, shipping jobs to everywhere but America, avoiding paying taxes, cutting wages, eliminating benefits and cutting their pensioners afloat.

Do you see any of those things in his record?

The *AFL-CIO* does not give report cards to candidates. "Joe the Autoworker" couldn't tell you WHO got what grade. The report card is a publication of the AFL-CIO's lobbyists and their PR firms. Is it irrelevant? Of course not. He's far preferable to unions than, say, Lindsey Graham. But is it, after 30 years of ascendant "free market" destruction of unions, a real measure of commitment to workers? No. It is PR.

Where's the beef?

[Radical Activist]

32. LCV called him an environmental "champion" when he ran for US Senate.

Yeah, I'm sure Obama will never be liberal enough if marxism is your definition of liberal. Support of the "free market" system does not equate to being a conservative. I notice that so far you haven't presented any evidence that Obama isn't a liberal.

Obama has a 96% AFL-CIO voting record. If you ignore his voting record then my guess is that you'll ignore anything that doesn't support your view. What standard other than his voting record and pro-labor platform are we supposed to use? Maybe if he jumped up and down and theatrically raised his voice like Kucinich you would be impressed?

Obama supports the top issue labor is working on right now; expanding the right to organize. Here's the beef. It includes plenty of evidence that he's liberal that you asked for:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#labor


Obama and Biden will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama and Biden will ensure that his labor appointees support workers' rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers. Obama and Biden will also increase the minimum wage and index it to inflation to ensure it rises every year.

* Ensure Freedom to Unionize: Obama and Biden believe that workers should have the freedom to choose whether to join a union without harassment or intimidation from their employers. Obama cosponsored and is strong advocate for the Employee Free Choice Act, a bipartisan effort to assure that workers can exercise their right to organize. He will continue to fight for EFCA's passage and sign it into law.
* Fight Attacks on Workers' Right to Organize: Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor of legislation to overturn the NLRB's "Kentucky River" decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction, and professional workers as "supervisors" who are not protected by federal labor laws.
* Protect Striking Workers: Obama and Biden support the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. They will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods.
* Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.

[leftofthedial]

33. 96% of what?

There hasn't been much opportunity to vote with unions during the last decade. I don't think Obama's a fascist or anything. I just think he's not a committed progressive/liberal on most issues.

He's smart and inspiring and I hope he does well. But so far, a repuke could have made all his economic staff picks (except for Melody Barnes) and no one would have thought it the least bit odd.

I hope he doesn't continue backing away from the campaign promises he made about the economy and Iraq. I really wish him great success. If the only "change" he brings is intelligence and competence, that will be a huge improvement for all of us. I'd just like to see one truly progressive act--not just "well, he's more progressive than the other guys" rhetoric.

[Radical Activist]

34. Its pretty clear that your opinion has nothing to do with Obama's actual record or platform.

So far he hasn't broken any campaign promises. Making an appointment you don't like is not a policy change.
It looks like you want to believe Obama will disappoint you and that he can't be a liberal. I provided plenty of evidence of his progressive record and values. Enjoy stewing in your cynicism and disappointment.

[leftofthedial]

38. let tax breaks for the super rich expire rather than roll them back

appoint Surgeman Gates to run the occupation of Iraq

support the supply-side giveaway to the fatcats on Wall Street, but fail to help the last remaining bastion of union jobs with a loan

talk about change and appoint the status quo...

My problem is not cynicism. It's idealism.

[Radical Activist]

8. Or the fact that he's the first left wing movement activist elected President

who spent his entire adult life fighting for progressive causes. But hey, its more fun to make him jump through hoops, right?

[Kahuna]

2. He probably thinks it is a useless label. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

3. Open to speculation because it's too early to know anything! n/t

[TahitiNut]

4. I'll be most interested in seeing who he chooses for Secretary of Labor.

:shrug:

[lightningandsnow]

5. Um, am I sensing a false dichotomy here?

I believe one can be (moderately) capitalist and still be a progressive, so long as their version of capitalism is fair and does not cause harm to others. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I think it is possible, although the American system leaves a lot to be desired.

Added: I know a few folks who consider themselves either capitalist or supporters of free markets, and they are still extremely socially liberal, and believe in the welfare of everyone involved. I'm not saying I agree, necessarily, but there are nuances in belief systems, and you can't always fit people into little neat groups.

[Arctic Dave]

14. I believe the "label" is Socially Conscious Capitalist.

[Greyhound]

9. Too early to make any definite pronouncements, but his proposed appointments for

economic matters bode ill for our future. Things will get very much worse if this gang is in charge, if for no other reason than controlling what options he is presented with.

"One leading economist, one of the few economists who has been right all along in predicting what’s happening, Dean Baker, pointed out that selecting them is like selecting Osama Bin Laden to run the war on terror." - Noam Chomsky

[leftofthedial]

21. let's put Wall Street in charge of cleaning up Wall Street.

Let's put the Fed in control of fixing the institutionalized corruption in the markets.

I am deeply disappointed in Obama's apparent approach to the economy. All these picks, except Melody Barnes (who will have little to do with forming economic policy), could easily have been made by a repuke PE.

[Greyhound]

26. Perhaps he is not so indebted he will see that continued pandering to

the parasites will only result in more failure and half-measures will prove ineffective.

[LWolf]

11. Choice # 3. nt

[Truth2Tell]

12. Not enough data exists yet to answer this question.

Get back to me on May Day.

[qwlauren35]

13. He is not "Free Market". The rest, well, maybe.

He has always advocated some controls on the market. He has pushed the idea that our corporations owe some allegiance to America and American workers.

I think it really depends on what is meant be progressive. He clearly fights some battles. He is going to fight for a greener, cleaner America, and for more inclusion of and attention to Native Americans. He has a reasonably liberal immigration reform viewpoint.

However, I respect the need to safeguard Wall Street. It includes our municipal, state and federal bonds. It includes huge numbers or IRAs and 401Ks that many of Boomers and Gen X'ers without pensions are depending on for our old age. As well as annuities that many of our elderly are counting on. To let it fold would crush many of America's starting businesses that have just gone public - where a lot of our greatest innovation is occurring. It would destroy numerous college and university trusts. And it might jeopardize a significant amount of American philanthropy.

Many who are quite quick to point out the problems are very blind to the ways that Wall Street is an integrated part of our lives.

I am glad that Obama is seeking a middle road when it comes to our financial markets.

However, I'm a moderate. What do I know, anyway?

[leftofthedial]

15. October 30, 2008, interview with Rachel Maddow:

"I am a strong believer in the free market."

November 14, 2008, 60 Minutes interview:
"I think our basic principle that this is a free market system and that that has worked for us, that it creates innovation and risk taking, I think that’s a principle that we’ve gotta hold to as well."

[qwlauren35]

22. I hear what you're saying - I guess I see it differently.

To me, "Free Market" is unrestricted.

Obama doesn't seem to believe in an unrestricted market.

[leftofthedial]

24. Then you are an anarchist?

[gravity]

20. Obama is going to follow the policies that are best for this country

Obama is pragmatic and borrows from all ideologies to come up with the best policies for this country.

If progressives have good ideas, then Obama would use them. If conservatives come up with good ideas, Obama will use them too.

[leftofthedial]

23. for the bible tells me so...

you sound like you're repeating a liturgy, not offering a position.

[gravity]

27. He is indifferent

[anonymous171]

36. As a pragmatist, he probably sees progressives wide-eyed idealism as useless

and futile.

[Breeze54]

40. Yeah, wanting to end a war and help the poor is soooo idealistic.

and wild eyed. :eyes:

[Fumesucker]

42. You forgot the most important characteristic..

Futile.

[anonymous171]

45. That is another problem with "progressives."

What exactly are they? Helping the poor is not just a progressive ideal. Wanting to end the war is also not just a progressive notion.

[leftofthedial]

41. just like Dick Cheney!

:thumbsup:

[anonymous171]

46. No, Cheney sees Progressives as wrong. Obama just sees them as ineffective.

[leftofthedial]

48. cheney also sees them as ineffective

fucking losers

miserable damned idealistic pathetic little stains on the road to glory

[unkachuck]

44. it's true.....

....Obama isn't President yet but he has been visibly speaking like a President in public....on that which he says and does, he should be held accountable....

....so far, his 'change' appointments look more like 'same' appointments....he won the nomination and Presidency by appealing to anti-war progressives and by running against the inside Washington crowd....Hillary was straight forward, defending her votes, running on experience....

....he hasn't taken office yet and he's already back-pedaling from expectations and the wishes of his base....why did we vote for him?....to keep gates and the war-mongers empolyed?....who's going bring us all the campaign 'change' Obama talked about?....conservatives? corporatists? the wealthy and their stooges?

....no, we're not walking from Obama, Obama is walking from us.

[Leftist78]

47. Well...

I'm withholding judgement until he...actually takes office. I mean seriously give it a rest. What do his appointees say about him? Maybe a lot, but maybe not so much. I'm not stupid. I know we're not going to get the sort of broad progressive agenda that we'd get with Kucinich (of course having Kucinich there is a crazy pipe-dream), but it's on us to push that agenda as hard as we can and try to get what we can out of our president.

[dailykoff]

49. At this point, very Clintonian. They are useful for getting elected,

will settle for the occasional rhetorical table scrap, but have no where else to turn and can be ingnored when cutting deals with the rich guys.