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Will Jdimytai Damour (or his family) see justice?

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:47 PM
Original message
Poll question: Will Jdimytai Damour (or his family) see justice?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gee, this isn't at all an incredibly biased push poll.
:sarcasm:
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why, thank you.
:shrug:

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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. What About The Police Dept?
Seems they were called earlier and left with the crowd still out of control. This entire episode is so wrong!
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The police responded to a call.
Once the reason for their call was rectified, they left the store in the hands of Wal-Mart's alleged "increased security."

The only way the police can be blamed for their actions that day is they walked away without arresting the Wal-Mart manager.

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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. My name is Moriah, and Wal-Mart pays my bills.
Edited on Sun Nov-30-08 07:33 AM by moriah
Yes, it does feel like something you'd admit at a 12-step meeting.

I live in Bentonville.

I do not work directly for WM -- I work for a vendor. I do not work with security of any kind, I fix computers when they break.

<le sigh>

I feel bad for a post I made late Thursday night/early Friday morning -- I mentioned the trampling injuries that many customers have faced in past years, all because people couldn't wait in line or be courteous to their fellow human being. And yes, that is where I lay the blame for this. The root cause was disrespect and greed.

And NOT JUST greed on the part of the largest retailer in the world.

It's easy to blame Wal-Mart for this.

It's easy, because there are a lot of things wrong with Wal-Mart's business practices in various areas. They don't unionize. They don't give all of their employees the hours they might want or pay as much as they probably could. They don't have the best benefits (but I can tell you for a fact they have better benefits than Dillard's -- I know because I've considered "selling my soul to the Beast of Bentonville" and looked over their benefits, and compared it to when I worked for Dillards in their home office). To provide "everyday low prices" they buy goods from China made by sweatshop laborers of questionable quality and safety. And because people keep buying from them, they can keep on with these unfair practices.

But ...

..... how about some friggin' personal responsibility? How about courtesy and respect for your fellow man? How about NOT beating glass doors of a business until they start to cave in and shatter, just to get a $128 Blu-Ray Player???

A man lost his life because everyday people decided that material objects were more important than anything else. More important than patience. More important than common decency or courtesy or regard for life or property.

If people were not so greedy, it would not be necessary for a retailer to have to get extra security to prevent such a tragedy. And to be blunt, from what it sounded like, the only thing that would have kept this from happening would have been a line of riot shields and people with guns and nightsticks. The fact that apparently the SWAT team would have been needed to deal with this says a hell of a lot more about people than it does about Wal-Mart itself.

And that is NOT easy to accept, because it means the blame is put on us.

---------------

When it comes to criminal responsibility, the people who broke down the doors broke the law. They broke into private property, and killed someone in the process.

When it comes to Wal-Mart's responsibility... first, I'd like to figure out why, when it seemed like they were going to break down the doors, that anyone attempted to hold the doors shut. The standard Loss Prevention staff at a store do not have guns, do not have nightsticks, and do not have riot shields (which, again, they SHOULDN'T need) -- and very rarely are there more than 2 on duty at any time at a store.

As the article indicates, between six and ten employees attempted to keep the doors from breaking inward.

If employees saw what was happening and decided of their own volition to try to keep the doors from opening, and not under orders from management ... then I cannot justify any criminal culpability whatsoever on the company.

If a manager ordered or asked any of the non-Loss Prevention staff to attempt to hold the doors.... or, heck, even if they'd ordered LP to hold the doors.... then I would be with many of you who are suggesting people be arrested other than the people who broke down the store doors.

--

Next post will be regarding what needs to be done by WM in the future, OSHA regulations, etc etc. This was about criminal responsibility.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "between six and ten employees attempted to keep the doors from breaking inward."
Whose responsibility was it to control the crowd before it got to the door?

Wal-Mart is lucky to be able to hide this crime behind the weekend and their huge wallet, which will no doubt buy lots and lots of good P.R.

Here is a link to a post about crowd control (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4553618&mesg_id=4561693)

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It was the responsibility of the people in the crowd to control the crowd
There are orderly crowds and disorderly ones.

Thanks for the links BTW. Interesting stuff.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. You're welcome. n/t
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Exactly. As moriah pointed out
all for $128 blue ray player? You're going to kill someone over that? It's not like people were in line to purchase marked down groceries to feed their families.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Maybe a little information about crowd control is needed here.
Here are some links:
1. the first one is from a security company that specializes in crowd control (http://www.crowddynamics.com/Main/Crowddisasters.html). Pay special attention to the section called "Stampedes."

2. this next one is a memorial site for people who died in Hillsborough stadium in 1989 (http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/buildup1.shtm)

3. this final link is a DU link to some pictures of the Wal-Mart store in Valley Stream before and after Damour's death. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4554275&mesg_id=4554814)


Special thanks to DUer dmesg for the idea.

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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Awesome post, moriah.
:thumbsup:
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. According to a Starbucks protest sign...
...Wal~Mart gives benefits to a greater % of its workforce than Starbucks does.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That doesn't excuse Wal-Mart for their criminal negligence. n/t
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not really.
They will take a large cash payment and everything will go on as it has.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Oh I'd imagine WalMart will change its store opening policies
If I had to prognosticate, I'd say they pay an undisclosed sum to the family while admitting no wrongdoing, and make changes in store opening policy which will do something to mitigate this particular kind of stampede.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. ...
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Are you joking? Wal~Mart would never go to trial over this NT
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not everything sad is an injustice
Edited on Sun Nov-30-08 03:41 PM by dmesg
Hundreds of people are trampled to death every few years in Hajj; does Riyadh owe them?

Large crowds are dangerous. Normal barricades, doors, and procedures don't always work. That doesn't mean somebody committed a crime.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. True.
But, Wal-Mart attempted none of the standard procedures.

There was simply no crowd control whatsoever.

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You mean except for the barricades that the crowd trampled over
I'm sure you just forgot to mention them
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. What barricades?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The barricades the crowd burst through NT
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You keep using that word "barricade," but ...


... I haven't seen any pictures of any at the store prior to the opening (as evidenced by the link in my last post).

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