Stores need to better plan for crowds, Police say. /Docs: fear and greed may fuel retail stampedes

[Blue Diadem]

I found both these stories interesting. It covers both sides, from the retail responsibility to the crowd mentality.

Stores need to better plan for crowds, police say

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-licops3012223900nov30,0,6144172.story

snip: As police brass dissect what happened when a stampeded of shoppers outside a Valley Stream Wal-Mart left a seasonal worker dead, they may lean on the stores themselves to better plan for events like Black Friday, a department spokesman said yesterday.

Nassau police say the stampede outside the discount chain store was foreseeable given the huge crowds that gather for post-Thanksgiving sales.

"I can't stress enough how the onus is on them," said Det. Lt. Kevin Smith, the county police's chief spokesman.
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Docs: Fear and greed may fuel retail stampedes
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-limob2912221004nov29,0,3819330.story

snip:While greed may seem an obvious motive for crowds that stampede retailers in search of bargains at this time of year, experts say fear also plays a significant role.

A fear of being unable to afford gifts - given today's economic woes - may drive many consumers to shop competitively for bargains at dawn, say local psychologists and sociologists.

Many people abandon their normal behavior when caught up in the urge to snag discounted plasma HDTVs like those on sale Friday at Wal-Mart in Valley Stream.

And individual judgement can melt away as people react to being jostled in a crowd, which in turn can shatter individual notions of personal space. Mary Kirby-Diaz, a sociology professor at Farmingdale State College, said average Americans need a space "bubble" of 27 inches.
(More at each link)

[MichiganVote]

1. Is there ever truly an excuse for uncivilized behavior on the part of people or corporations?

If there is I haven't seen it yet. Imagine being the loved ones of this poor person....shame on the shoppers and shame on Wartmart.

[Blue Diadem]

6. I don't think there is an excuse, but since the behavior exists

it's important for places to prepare properly. Especially, as in this case, they'd already had problems earlier when the crowd was but a fraction of the size at the time of opening.

I've never understood why people go to those early openings to freeze, then dash and grab and jostle and all that goes with big crowds focusing on such few items that are available.

[MichiganVote]

10. Its grotesque isn't it. I could understand it in cave people going for food. But now?

I understand human behavior, But when some people define their needs as the latest case of plastic anything... as if all our lives depended on it...well that's when I separate from that caste of "humans".

I went out once on a Black Friday probably ten years ago. Of course I didn't know the rules. I arrived mid morning, had no coupons with me and dawdled whenever I felt like it. But I didn't contribute to the death of an innocent store employee and I retained my dignity.

That's really what the retailers are selling nowadays. The chance to sell the rest of whatever's left of one's dignity. How cheaply some sell it off.

No thanks.

[CoffeeCat]

2. I think many people are desperate...

...and as the article said, "fear" is driving some of this.

Many people cannot afford Christmas presents this year. So, I'm guessing that
many people were hell bent on getting some of those rock-bottom deals on Black
Friday.

Walmart did have great deals.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the holiday sales are. Black
Friday was up 3 percent from last year. That's not surprising. In fact, it
makes sense that people are looking for major bargains.

[MichiganVote]

3. Not half as desperate as the dead guy was before he drew his last breath.

[oldnslo]

4. There is no mentality

That can excuse this behavior. It can't even be described as animalistic, as animals do not do this. This is a separate breed of biped, bereft of humanity and dignity and respect, consumed by the "me first" attitude. Sick, sick, sick. The tramplers should be subjected to "eye for an eye" retribution. It's only fair.

[hlthe2b]

9. So, you've never heard the term "stampede" !!!

Never watched a western film? Certainly animals do stampede--cattle, buffalo, elk herds, elephants... Goodness, we have lost all rationality even discussing this. It is a behavior rooted in primal instincts, usually fear, but other emotions can trigger as well.

[MichiganVote]

11. So anyone who was there is an Ox?

[hlthe2b]

13. MichiganVote, why don't you peruse up and see who I was

responding to... Your non sequitor aside, I am not saying anything of the kind...:crazy:

[HillWilliam]

5. I heard a report on NPR on the way

home this afternoon that indicated that the customers broke the door down five minutes before opening time. They were so greed-consumed they couldn't wait another five freaking minutes.

SprawlMart, the home of cheap Chinese-made crap, brought to you by dint of putting American workers out of jobs, shamelessly consumed by people who just don't give a damn whose back they break to get it.

There's a special hell for the Walton family and those who keep them in the lavish lifestyle their noblesse demands.

There's another special, deeper hell for those who couldn't wait another five fucking minutes for store opening, who were so impatient they had to break the doors down to get in to snap up the Chinese crap that put American workers out of jobs.

There's yet another, deeper, darker hell for those stomped both that SprawlMart employee flat, those who tried to come to his aid, yet kept right on going without a second thought except what they were going to get gonna get gonna get gonna get.

Pigs. I hope they're all reincarnated as pigs.

[Blue Diadem]

7. I'd heard the doors were broken down too.

One of the shoppers said that an employee had come out and told them they were opening the doors early but then said it was a joke. The shopper said that's when the crowd at the rear began to shove forward.

I think it helps to attempt to understand the dynamics of crowds/mobs and how death and injuries can be prevented in the future. After the rush and injury/injuries suffered last year, one would think they would have prepared all their stores and employees for crowd control.

[valerief]

8. Pigs are noble animals. The stampeders should come back as herpes viruses. nt

[HillWilliam]

16. If they come back as herpes viruses

there stands a chance they'll still be pains in the arse. If they come back as pigs, there's a chance they'll wind up as bacon, sizzling in a pan.

There seems a certain justice in the latter.

[KittyWampus]

12. Why those people decided to be there is irrelevant to the LEGAL process of determining culpability.

[Warpy]

14. People know those big sales are SUCKER BAIT

and that there are very few items on sale and the circular is meant to get them into the store to buy something more expensive.

Most states specify the number of sale items the store has. That number is always far below any projected demand. Rain checks also have to be offered and honored, but stores make sure delivery of replacement items doesn't happen until after the holidays. Most people will have given up or bought something else for the kiddies to open Xmas morning.

The fact that those sales are SUCKER BAIT makes the proposed suckers line up for hours to try to be the first through the door so that they can sprint to get one of the items on sale. That's the recipe for disaster, right there.

If stores would stop playing us for suckers and put only items they have IN STOCK in sufficient quantity on sale, the craziness of the store stampede would stop. You'd think stores would try to sell off inventory they have a lot of, but no, they play the sucker bait game on something glitzy.

WalMart isn't the only store that does this, but they're the one who got someone killed this year because of it.

The madness has to be stopped. Suckers will be out there no matter what they put on sale.

[BlooInBloo]

15. And water is wet.