Another Catholic pastor labels voting for Obama a sin

[babylonsister]

But getting millions killed in an illegal occupation is A-OK. :puke:


Another Catholic pastor labels voting for Obama a sin

By Sue Nowicki | Modesto Bee


Parishioners of St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Modesto have been told they should consider going to confession if they voted for Barack Obama, because of the president-elect's position condoning abortion.

"If you are one of the 54 percent of Catholics who voted for a pro-abortion candidate, you were clear on his position and you knew the gravity of the question, I urge you to go to confession before receiving communion. Don't risk losing your state of grace by receiving sacrilegiously," the Rev. Joseph Illo, pastor of St. Joseph's, wrote in a letter dated Nov. 21.

The letter was sent to more than 15,000 members of the St. Joseph's parish. It is one of 34 parishes in the Stockton Diocese, which has more than 200,000 members in Stanislaus, San Joaquin and four other counties.

Illo also delivered this message in a homily.

more...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/56697.html

[SpiralHawk]

1. Spiral Hawk labels Catholic Fascism a sin

Give me a freaking break. So-called Catholicism was lost to me in the 2nd grade when the nuns spouted their version of fascism.

And it was lost to my saintly grey-haired, 87-year old Mom (a lifelong devotee) when the Pope and Cardinals and assorted robed minions made a vast, pathetic effort to cover up their systematic and predatory sexual perversion.

Ptoooey on thier phony 'holier-than-thou' hypocrisy.

Get the Beam out of your own eyes.

[patrice]

5. Thanks for the quotation marks, SpiralHawk. Real Christians, some of them Catholics, ARE responsible

for things such as Liberation Theology.

"The Church" (whichever denomination) should be strongly held to account for its hypocrisies. This will make the Laity stronger and, hopefully, someday to fulfill its Christian Theological destiny: to make "The Church" OBSOLETE.

[SpiralHawk]

16. Excellent point, patrice

I have never lost my devotion to Christ -- just to the institutions that have bastardized His teachings...

[patrice]

17. Christ was/is EVERYwo/man and that's what we are called to be

by recognizing our commonalities AND our differences and to stop living as though Life were a zero-sum game.

[patrice]

27. So . . . why the edit?

You did not intend to convey that there are those who call themselves "Catholic" without actually being catholic http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/catholic ?

I am confused about what you meant now. Is your OP a blanket criticism of all Catholics? If it is, I retract my support for that position.

[SpiralHawk]

43. No universal criticism intended, patrice

I meant to emphasize the fasist aspect, and I can see how removing the quotes made it appear a blanket criticism, rather than a particular one.

[CBGLuthier]

2. I suppose it would just be a bonus

If these assholes would run more people out of their worn out old church. Maybe this is their plan to solve the priest shortage.

Alienate your parishioners, make a nazi the pope, and fuck little children.

Great plan.

[LiberalFighter]

3. If those 54% or more parishioners were to stop attending those churches...

How would that affect the church?

[Darth_Kitten]

4. Can this catholic bashing stop already?

n/t

[babylonsister]

7. Excuse me? This is an article from McClatchy. Maybe if the

church stopped bashing, this wouldn't be an issue.

[Darth_Kitten]

14. Don't think the Catholic Church hates Obama that much......

but what the hey.....

[babylonsister]

24. This man apparently does. But why does he think he's

got the power to disparage anyone? Too bad he's not concentrating on poverty, homelessness, etc. Seems like a lot of wasted energy to me.

[CoffeeCat]

9. We're not supposed to call out amoral hypocrisy...

...just because it has the Catholic stamp of approval on it?

That's some dangerous thinking there.

I wouldn't care if the pastor of the Church of the Three Stooges was saying these
disturbing things--that propagate the evil that we've experienced during the past
eight years.

This pastor is not above criticism, just because he's Catholic.

[Darth_Kitten]

12. Get real.......this place has more than it's share of catholic bashing.......

n/t

[CoffeeCat]

18. I'm bashing, and I won't apologize...

The behavior is being bashed, not Catholicism.

The Catholic Church as victim. What a crock.

[izquierdista]

26. I can understand the confusion

Behavior, Catholicism, what falls into the former category and what falls into the latter? As time goes on and more and more child abuse tales come out, the Catholic brand will become identified with child molestation. I wouldn't be surprised if 200 years from now, you will have to go to a dictionary to find out that "catholic" once meant something other than "an adult who should not be left unsupervised with children".

[patrice]

13. Bashing DOES happen here. But there is a difference between bashing and constructive criticism

by means of which the followers of Jesus will be separated from Jesus-hypocrites and made strong enough to stand on their own two-legs without the cleric-aristocracy of any denomination.

[patrice]

19. P.S. This will be the Real Catholic Church, no sects, no walls.

I actually heard a Methodist minister refer to it by using the word catholic (at a recent family funeral).

[CoffeeCat]

21. Yes, but not all disapproval....

...comes in the form of "constructive criticism."

I can call this Pastor an "asshat." Or I can vent
with a rage-filled post. Or I can storm his next homily
and yell out what a hypocrite he is.

Opinion takes many forms. The form doesn't necessarily invalidate the underlying argument.

[patrice]

25. Yeah, it's up to the individual(s); the form doesn't necessarily invalidate, nor validate.

So I think in terms of saying something that "Bashes" enough to get a reaction, but not so much that a majority of message-consumers will reject the message on grounds that it is more about Bashing and Anger than it is about valid empirical issues.

Strong Criticism, sometimes almost identical with plain old Bashing, can be good if related to the broad spectrum from which the "bashing" position is derived. This does not happen often in positions that can be characterized as bashing: e.g. someone was going on about "Catholic" "ritualistic canabalism" the other day, but couldn't place that perspective relative to other perspectives on The Eucharist and then add his/her empirical support for emphasizing "ritualistic canabalism" over other understandings of Transubstantiation - thus revealing her/his bigotry and establishing the fact that s/he was bashing for bashing's sake and nothing more.

The way threads develop is an important and very interesting thing.

[patrice]

37. I guess I need to add:

"So I think in terms of saying something that "Bashes" enough to get a reaction, but not so much that a majority of message-consumers will reject the message on grounds that it is more about Bashing and Anger than it is about valid empirical issues" . . . nor so much that bigots will be attracted to the position and feel supported by it.

[pipi_k]

22. Are any other religions doing the same thing?

Because if they are, I'll bash them too.


I'm an equal opportunity religion basher.

But only when they truly deserve it.


Don't stand in defense of them, for gods sake...tell them to get their shit together and stay out of peoples' personal lives...

[treestar]

6. Ignorant jerk

Someone should explain to him that McFail and Phailin were very low on any other Catholic values.

And they need to recognize that the deaths of the already born in unnecessary wars are just as bad, or their credibility goes down the drain.

[pipi_k]

23. It's insanity, I tell you....

the deaths of the already born don't even make these people blink an eye.

Mr Pip and I have a few friends who are rabidly Anti Choice...I mean, they actually foam at the mouth over it.

They'll cry "murderer!!!!" at someone who has an abortion, or provides them...

But when faced with the facts of dead and mutilated children killed in war or genocide or by parental abuse, etc...nothing.


I honest to god do NOT understand it.

[CoffeeCat]

8. So, voting for McCain and his war machine...

...is following the path of God and Jesus Christ?

Everyone knows--including this pastor--that McCain would have widened the Middle East
war and he would have bombed Iran and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents--probably
within the first year of his Presidency.

What in the hell has happened to the Catholic Church? Is it so corrupt that they will
vote for a murdering, torturing, war machine that neglects poor families and the basic
health of this country's citizens?

The question is...how many parishioners got up and left during that abomination of a
homily? How many will eventually leave due to his glaring, amoral hypocrisy?

[madokie]

10. I am an honestly happy non religous person

born and raised in a home of religion. The church my dad started in '52 is still having services today, right now.

I see religion as a big problem throughout the world.
:hi: :-)

[msongs]

11. so does the hitler youth pope agree with this view? nt

[LibDemAlways]

15. The article goes on to say that the Bishop of the

region that includes Illo's parish, Bishop Stephen Blaire, disagrees. He believes most Catholics voted on economic issues and that no one needs to share his or her vote with a priest. He also comments that he's sure Obama earned the votes of many priests and bishops.

Blaire is a good guy. I worked for him years ago when he was principal of the school where I was teaching. Illo sounds like a nutcase.

[Deja Q]

20. Has the same priest apologized for all the molestations of Catgolic boys?

If not, he should zip it. And I mean his mouth, if nothing else.

[CatholicEdHead]

28. Sounds like this priest wants an promotion from Rome

by acting like this. Yet it is sadly how you get ahead nowadays to Bishop, ArchBishop, then Cardinal. You speak the line from Rome. This priest is looking to get noticed to get promoted in coming years. No more than that.

[patrice]

29. Have any of you ever been to a Catholic Worker House? nt

[CatholicEdHead]

31. I have and they are very good places

[patrice]

40. Me too - often - they take care of those whom Many, and quite likely some in this thread, would

avoid, because they smell, or they're ugly, or sick, or not PC, or not attractive, or they're incompetent and useless, or . . . . not your nice, cleaned-up, sterilized, made-over poor one finds in Cupcake Land, the kind everyone thinks we SHOULD help. CATHOLIC WH serves the MOST "un-worthile, useless" hopeless folks out there.

[patrice]

30. These blanket condemnations of millions of people are the same thing that this priest is doing.

Meet the "new" boss, SAME as the old boss.

[patrice]

32. Re Bashing: Meet the "new" boss; Same as the old boss. It occurs to me that, like a lot of

other extremist stuff that goes on around here: __________ Hating/___________ Idolizing, Meet the "new" boss; same as the old boss

IS

the point of the bashing. It's a way of concretely and absolutely insuring, no matter what kind of screen-name/avatar it is associated with, that there is

NO CHANGE.

[babylonsister]

33. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I posted an article about a man in a church condemning his flock because of who they might have voted for.

It would be just as appalling if a teacher was doing it in a classroom.

[patrice]

34. Sorry! I'm referring to down-thread stuff.

I actually support your OP.

But, unless we just really WANT to "cut off our nose to spite the Pope's face" we should start making some distinctions between constructive criticism and BLANKET condemnation of millions of people. That's stereotypes coming from very possibly bigoted sources who very possibly intend to create division and pain and, thus, to disempower the Left by fragmenting it from one of its oldest sources of Social Justice activists. I will not watch such an effort go down without calling it out and, at least offering "the shoe" to those whom the "shoe fits". Personally, I don't think you fall into that category, but, then, it's not my call. It's yours.

[babylonsister]

39. I don't have a religious bone in my body but

have no impulse to bash anyone who does. To each their own; it doesn't matter to me, and I'm glad some people can find solace in their homes of worship.

Well, except maybe for my step-son and family. Born agains...but that's a whole 'nother story.

It's that old meshing of politics and religion that makes me uneasy when I think about it.

[patrice]

41. I'm a fallen Catholic. I take my inspiration from the Bhagavad Gita now, more than anything else.

I also respect Liberation Theology, but I see all of the old teachings in an absolutely organic context now - and they still work, no superstitions required.

[Sam Ervin jret]

35. Any Catholic can tell his priest he could not in good conscience vote for the Rethug due to his/her.

stance on the death penalty. The Catholic Church is against the death penalty.

Life is sacred after all. Even after it's been alive for a while.

So I guess Catholics either can't vote for anyone or need to make the decision based on other matters.

[mitchum]

36. Hey, Father Joseph,Target is having a sale on Gameboys!

and I know how important those are to your work

[Peregrine Took]

38. Retired pastor at my Catholic church said he was voting for Obama!

And he said so right on the altar after Mass.

[patrice]

42. One of the True Pro-Lifers, one who knows if a man can CHOOSE to kill

strangers, because a pResident wants him to, a Woman can Choose to kill a non-viable fetus. And "right" or "wrong" the individuals involved, in War and in Abortion, MUST be free to sin or save themselves and others, because, ultimately, that's the ONLY way each can work out his/her own "salvation" & that the only thing about Salvation that is automatic, signed, sealed, and delivered by the death of a man named Jesus is the POSSIBILITY of learning and changing and growing toward the Light of truth.

He's probably also the kind of REAL Pro-Lifer who KNOWS that Abortions will decline and even maybe end when all of us stop acting like a bunch of "saved" bigots and start fulfilling our responsibilities to one another instead of running all over Earth and MURDERING millions of innocent people "for their own good".