Laura Bush did a great job on MTP. I am glad she is speaking out for the women of Afghanistan.

[Apollo11]

I saw Laura Bush on Meet The Press today. Maybe I am being naive or maybe I am too much of a hippy. But I think the First Lady did a great job speaking about the situation in Afghanistan. She is making excellent use of her position to inform the US public about what is at stake in Afghanistan and why the US and other NATO countries should follow thru on their commitments to the people of that country, and especially the defense of women's rights including access to education and employment.

I logged on to DU to find out if anyone else had seen it, and I was kind of disappointed to see at least two threads disrespecting the First Lady.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4557615
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4561231


Folks - the Bush era is almost over. Obama won the election. Thank God (not that I believe in Him). It's time to let the bitterness go. I will never forgive Dubya or Cheney or Rumsfeld or Rove. But how does it help anyone to ignore the positive contribution that Laura Bush is making to public understanding of America's responsibilities towards the civilian population of Afghanistan - who for the most part are some of the poorest people in the world?

Thank you Laura for using your position to speak out for human rights and for the rights of women in Afghanistan!

[ananda]

1. Hmm.. Does Laura Bush ever..

.. speak out for human rights and the rights
of women here in America?

[TomInTib]

5. She's far too busy solving the Gang situation.

I cannot even respond to the OP, it is so whacked.

[Political_Junkie]

10. I think it's a sorta Lady MacBeth thing...

she's feeling guilty about the blood on her hands, because of her husbands policies.
Or maybe, she was naive enough to think he really meant to help the Afghan people.

[Apollo11]

15. Obama AGREES with overthrowing the Taliban

So do the governments of many NATO countries including Great Britain and The Netherlands and Germany.

Only an extreme pacifist would suggest that the US should have left Al Quada to continue running their training camps after the experience of 9.11.2001

[Mari333]

21. Obama is wrong. Very wrong.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/07/23/obama/

and laura bush spouted this same crap years ago. its her shtick.
when in the world did DU become warmonger central?

[Apollo11]

23. Thanks for being honest

My guess is that a majority here on DU have more confidence in the wisdom and common sense of our President Elect.

[Mari333]

26. not everyone on here follow leaders blindly.

some of us think for ourselves.

[vixengrl]

70. Very useful article to consider.

The solution in Afghanistan or with Pakistan is not (entirely) a military one--these are people who know war in a way we do not, and appreciate a different standard of political complexity. While it is tempting to buy into a claim, such as that of General Petreaus, that he would do the same things in Afghanistan that he's done in Iraq in re: a surge, the problem is that there is a gap in the "cosmopolitin-quotient" of these two worlds. The Iraqis, regardless of creed, are more cosmopolitan. The Afghanistan/Pakistan border is a place unto itself, and the type of work needed is delicate in dealing with tribal and partisan realities. The tendency to view the fallen as "martyrs" not "losers" is a compelling argument against certain methods of warfare.

On a more pragmatic note, however, I despair of coming to a practical agreement with the Wahabbis who seem to tap into a hard-line antipathy to any "western influence" (whether it be for good or ill--just little stuff like girls getting an education sets them off--there were over 200 attacks against Afghan schoolgirls in 2007, not too dissimilar except in scope to the recent acid-attack that disfigured some 15 children--they like things anti-intellectual and belligerent, apparently.) Whilst my bleeding liberal heart doesn't *want* to drop bombs on people, I am a bit in favor of seeing imams who preach antagonism and ignorance and the being of one book, barely understood, with slavery and injustice for all, quite undone. But I am inclined to think this is more profitably done by reinforcing a huminitarian presence. Creating places for widows and orphans. Creating hospitals and schools, and backstopping a civil police-force. Treating the extremists as criminals, and causing their message to seem, not at all a message of political independence, so much as a message of incoherence and futility against a realistic hope of progres.

The issue at hand is: can this be done with the present level of violence?

I am of the opinion that two things should be done at one and the same time--that we can back-stop the Afghan gov't and continue aggressively marginalizing the Taliban--and their associates in Pakistan if need be. A "surge" of sorts would be needed--but not of an entirely military kind. There would need to be a partnership with the Afghan gov't that seeks to reinforce good, productive practices that tend towards greater stability, in addition to work at severing the ties with any terrorist group.

But Laura Bush is way disconnected from an understanding of the effect of the war on the safety of women--that much I agree with. It has not been a triumph of liberty, there. The war in Afghanistan has been like some red-headed stepchild no one associated with this administration has been open to really acknowledging in terms of regional consequences.

I suspect though, that if Obama is wrong, now, he at least will have the flexibility and attention towards this important area to set things closer to right. I can't see him doing worse than Bush, here.

[Captain Hilts]

24. Logic has landed - on DU!

Congratulations Apollo 11!

[Political_Junkie]

31. I am in no way a pacifist!

I know when the time is right to fight. You are missing the fact that until the Bush administration terrorist attacks have always been handled as a crime. It's not an act of war. The people of Afghanistan did not bomb the Twin Towers. They don't deserve to die for it.

[Apollo11]

57. The terrorists who attacked New York, Madrid, London -- all trained in Afghanistan.

Maybe we should have tried diplomacy to persuade the Taliban that it would be in their best interests to close down Al Quaida's terrorist training camps?

[Political_Junkie]

71. I agree, why not try diplomacy.

What I don't support is bombing a whole country in retribution for the crimes committed by radical groups.

[Apollo11]

12. Sure she does

She supports her daughters and encourages them to get a good education and to build their own careers.
Jenna Bush teaches in public schools and volunteered for UNICEF.
Chelsea Clinton works in the head office of a hedge fund.

But Laura married into a GOP family so that makes her evil?

[Mari333]

32. good point n/t

[Greybnk48]

79. Sorry, she makes me sick. She's done nothing in 8 years to better

this country much less the plight of women ANYWHERE. Laura...go f*ck yourself. I won't forgive or forget, ever. Too many people are sick, hurt or dead because of her and her cult-like cronies.

[DS1]

2. Fuck you, Laura

[BlooInBloo]

3. What DS1 said.

[seemslikeadream]

4. my thoughts EXACTLY

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE

GO BACK TO YOUR MUDEROUS HUSBAND

[Mari333]

17. amen,she spouted that line years ago!

and it only gets worse over there. she never followed thru with anything. shes living in some sort of bubble. why in the world is she rehashing this stuff now?
shes nuts.

[seemslikeadream]

20. She is a worthless piece of crap standing by, enabling that psycho

[TomInTib]

9. That was going to be my reply.

But the OP was just to wacko for my limited vocabulary.

So I will second yours, DS1.

Tom

[CatWoman]

45. can I get on this pile on?

:)

[Midlodemocrat]

67. What he said.

[Pastiche423]

80. And another, fuck you, Laura!

She's had almost eight years to do something helpful and constructive in her role as the 1st Lady.

She's done jack.

[hlthe2b]

6. I'm sure Laura would be glad to have you as a fan..

My thread was one you refer to-- supposedly "disrespecting" Laura Bush*.

While I laud her "good intentions," what, pray tell, has she accomplished? She has given cover to her husband and this administration's disastrous policies, that have not only NOT aided women in Afghanistan, but arguably put them at even further risk. I might add that her concern for abuse of women and violence towards women does not extend to those countries with which her entire family has had long term business interests-- the Saudis.

[hlthe2b]

43. I notice the OP won't bother to address this post... Surprise...

surprise...:eyes:

[Apollo11]

47. How can speaking out for women's rights be not good?

I agree that all countries should be expected to respects women's rights.

Afghanistan was invaded because the Taliban had allowed Al Quaida to set up terrorist training camps.

The situation in Saudi Arabia is different. I don't think many DUers would agree with the USA or NATO invading Saudi Arabia.

[hlthe2b]

52. Many dollars short and 8 years late...Hypocritical too...

and your straw men arguments don't play here... No one suggested invading S. Arabia. She turns a hypocritical blind eye (and closed mouth) because it is inconvenient to do otherwise.

See my post down below.

[sandnsea]

7. Honor Killings in Basra Cost $100

They use women's rights as an excuse to continue their disastrous war strategy. Why do they never feel the need to educate Americans about the tragedies if it gets in the way of their political propaganda.

[DS1]

8. Fuck you, Laura

not a dupe


Fuck you, Laura is the only rational response to this thread. Fuck you, Laura.

[AlinPA]

11. I watched for less than a minute-could not stand to listen to that stupid, vacant

woman. Plus her voice drives me nuts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. If someone wrote FU Michelle on Freerepublic your heads would explode.

Grow up.

David

[hlthe2b]

18. Interesting pattern of concern you continue to display there, Dave

Maybe you should check over there and let us know....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Yep continuing to encourage people to be as classy as our next President.

[Apollo11]

34. Good for you!

:applause:

[Apollo11]

19. I think some of us could benefit from following Obama's lead

Do you see Barack Obama disrespecting the First Lady or anyone else?

Is verbal/virtual abuse going to heal America or help anyone at all?

[Mari333]

22. Bush was never the president and she was never the First Lady n/t

[Apollo11]

27. The Supreme Court says different!

While I strongly disagree with the SCOTUS decision to stop the Florida recount back in December 2000 ...

The fact is that Laura Bush and her husband have been living in the White House for the past 8 years, whether we like it or not.

[Mari333]

30. hail to the thief. n/t

[Mari333]

29. the enabling wife of a man who murdered hundreds of thousands of people?

disrespect is a kindness at this point.

[Apollo11]

36. So the Iraq thing was Laura's fault?

I guess Cheney and Rummy can call you as witness for the defense when we put their asses on trial.

[Mari333]

39. did she speak out against it? no.

and anyone who didnt speak out against it that was in a position of power is an enabler of the neocon policy. therefore deserving no respect from me.

[Apollo11]

50. See my post #38 below

But I respect your right to disagree.

[Thothmes]

72. Do you feel that way about

Lady Bird Johnson?

[Mz Pip]

14. I just finished reading

"A Thousand Spendid Suns" and although it was fiction it gave a pretty realistic portrayal of what women in Afghanistan have had to endure.

I didn't watch MTP, but if Laura Bush spoke out about women's rights in Afghanistan, good for her. Maybe it will open the eyes of some of the know nothing conservatives who only want to bomb the shit out of places like that.

[babylonsister]

16. I am sorry to say I don't have much faith in anything being

accomplished in Afghanistan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x406064

[BeatleBoot]

25. We'll be living with "the Bush era", as you say, for a while.

We will be mopping up their shit for many years to come.

[notadmblnd]

33. i've heard her speak about this maybe 3 X's in eight years

yeah, she deserves kudos:sarcasm:

Sorry, if i hurt your little feelings, but a person in her position should have done much much more.

[hlthe2b]

37. She was too busy solving the gang problem and she DID!!!

(Just ask those traumatized kids who witnessed the gang killings in ToysRUs Friday)

[riverwalker]

35. 8 years of silence

then a few comments of concern. Oh yeah, that redeems her.
Guess the million of Iraqi orphans she created don't bother her. (Silence=complicity=responsibility)
I remember when the anti-war poets were banned from her poetry reception at the WH.

[Apollo11]

38. Since when does the First Lady hold the President to account?

Last time I checked - that's the responsibility of both houses of Congress. Not the President's spouse.

[roody]

40. Has she actually ever done anything to improve the lives of Afghanis?

I didn't see her on tv.

[Apollo11]

44. She did a great job telling the American public about what is at stake

MR. BROKAW: Women became involved in politics, they're members of the parliament. They've taken a much more active role in that country. But as we all know, the Taliban have come back into Afghanistan in larger numbers, and now there were 15 schoolgirls that were attacked...

MS. BUSH: That's right.

MR. BROKAW: ...with acid in Kandahar just recently. Some arrests have been made...

MS. BUSH: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: ...but that's pretty discouraging, isn't it?

MS. BUSH: It is discouraging. But on the other hand, there has been lots of progress. Are there steps back? Yes. And they're terrible, brutal happenings like the girls who were just walking to school and were targeted just because they were going to school, and disfigured with acid. The really good news is these--the people who did it have been arrested. There is an Afghan police force now and an Afghan army that are building up to be able to protect the people of Afghanistan internally like the--like we want them to. We all want them to. And there are many, many signs of progress. When I was in Bamiyan this year I met with a governor, female governor, I met with female police officers. Are there--are women afraid to step out and have some of these roles? Sure, to some extent they are. But these sort of happenings are more isolated than they sound when we read about them in the newspaper, because they are so horrific when we read about it.

MR. BROKAW: And it's much worse in the south and in the rural areas...

MS. BUSH: That's right.

MR. BROKAW: ...than it is in the north.

MS. BUSH: That's--and Kabul is in much better shape, I think, than it has been. Violence is down there in the city. But in certain parts of Afghanistan, because there are still so many very conservative people, women themselves are afraid. I met with a group of women, parliamentarians, members of parliament, who were in the United States recently, and they said, "This is our chance, and if we don't take this chance, if we don't succeed now then when will we ever be able to?" And I think the main thing that that says to me is that we need to stay with them, we have to continue to support them.

Recently when there was a terrorist bombing in Afghanistan, a group of people--1,000 protesters actually came out to protest. Most people in Afghanistan want to be able to build their country, live a decent life, not be afraid of a terrorist attack, and the fact is we just need to keep working with them so they can do it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27983385/

[hlthe2b]

46. Yes... at the end of her husband's term and after they made things

exponentially worse for them.... Gee, I'm sure those girls whose lives are worth no more than the $100 bounty for "honor killing" contracts or who do not dare go to school for fear they too will be blinded and disfigured by acid poured in their face, or who have been allowed to burn alive in those same schools.... I'm betting that, had they seen Laura's little spiel on MTP, they, too would be impressed. I mean that is all that matters--well timed words, not action during 8 years of that administration.

:eyes:

[Apollo11]

51. So according to you, girls in Afghanistan want the Taliban running their country.

They want everything to be put back exactly how it was before NATO invaded their country 7 years ago? The good old days? :eyes:

[hlthe2b]

58. Your arguments are on the level of someone's precocious

five year old. Nonetheless, I will try once more. The Bush administration did not defang the Taliban-- given their pathetic and pathological need to pull out nearly all troops to fight a illegal grudge war in Iraq. They blunted the Taliban just long enough to push a propaganda campaign that all was safe and rosy for girls to return to school, drop their burqhas and initiate a new society... What a cruel cruel hoax, as these girls and women believed them, only to find that Bush* never intended to back it up, needing as he did to divert all resources to Iraq and allow the Taliban to come back in force. They are now paying the ultimate price. Bush 43* sold them out, just as Bush41 sold out the Kurds.

[Apollo11]

62. Which is why I agree with Obama's plan to increase the US military presence in Afghanistan

And I hope that other NATO countries will also step-up their commitments. I heard that the German forces will only patrol safe areas during regular office hours!

[snappyturtle]

76. Actually you have hit upon a point. Circumstances did become

better for a while. But, as our attentions were then shifted to Iraq the matters began to reverse themselves. Laura can brag about progress but it's not widespread. Until the burkas are removed and education is unpunishable nothing will change. My hope is that if PE Obama puts more troops in Afghanistan women's rights will get better.

[roody]

49. Talk is fine. I doubt that she has DONE anything to help Afghanis.

[Apollo11]

54. Meeting with people and pushing things forward

Believe it or not that does actually count as doing something.

Laura never claimed that she built a school single-handed.

[Ichingcarpenter]

41. 'Laura Bush did a great job'

All righty then! Her job is done because she has convinced you.

George Bush
"I'm the master of low expectations." —aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

[Mari333]

53. I never in a million years thought I would see a DUer praise Laura Bush

it sure has changed here since 2003.

[Apollo11]

55. What has changed is that Obama won the election

So I see no point in bashing Laura Bush for what her husband has done. It's not like she can help her husband get a third term or anything.

[Mari333]

63. just because obama won the election

does not mean people have to change the opinions they have had of laura and her husband for the last 8 years, why would they.

[hlthe2b]

64. She is being sent out to polish over his attrocities... to give him

some kind of legacy that he does not deserve... She is allowing herself to be so manipulated. Most of us see through it and, mindful of the countless hundreds of thousands who have suffered or died because of the Bush* administation, refuse to let it happen unchecked. Be her cheerleader if you wish. She is not deserving.

[Apollo11]

68. I don't think she mentioned her husband the whole interview

I believe that the First Lady has spent a lot of time learning about the situation and talking to people with direct and personal knowledge of what is going on. Plus she can actually construct sentences. Maybe that's why the White House tried to keep her out of the media these past 8 years? Because she makes her husband look so inarticulate in comparison?

[Ichingcarpenter]

74. I see no point in heaping praise at her either

not when she's been in a position of power of public opinion for the last 8 years.

Laura Bush Dismissed Bush's Katrina critics and did nothing for their plight.


'I also want to encourage anybody who was affected by Hurricane Corina to make sure their children are in school.'

[hlthe2b]

60. Perhaps that should give you pause...

think about it...

[Mari333]

65. ? be specific.

[Apollo11]

66. 63 replies in 60 minutes speaks for itself

It shows that my idea to start a pro-Laura thread here on DU was a smart move! ;-)

[Mari333]

42. Look, Apollo, I know you mean well. I really do. hugs.

I didnt mean to react so strongly. Its just that for 8 yrs she has been saying this stuff and done nothing about it. I stand by what I think of her, but I realize you have a different take on it. I dont mean to be mean, and I am certainly not trying to be mean to you or disrespect your opinion.
so, huge hugs and peace to you. seriously.
:hug:

[Algorem]

48. psycho babble

good public relations.,though,right?

sort of hit-and-run p.r.

maybe she could run for something now

get her out of the house

[undeterred]

56. Laura's not dumb. She just has really bad taste in men.

I heard she was a Democrat before she met the chimp. Imagine the life she might have had without him.

[Apollo11]

59. I am not saying she is some kind of a Saint.

I'm just saying that I thought she did a good job on today's Meet The Press.

[undeterred]

61. I didn't see it, but I can believe that.

:hi:

[Apollo11]

69. Thanks for the recommend - whoever you are!

Mr. President Elect -- is that you? :hi:

[DainBramaged]

73. Did she speak out on the deaths of over 4500 of our children in Iraq and Afghanistan?

No? Then she can burn in Hell next to her drunken husband.

[devilgrrl]

75. Yeah, she's so awesome - I can't get enough of her...

[shireen]

77. i was impressed too ...

i hope she stays active in the issue. I've always liked her, even when she's said dumb things to support the idiot she's married to. She's been coming into her own, in these recent years, and sees herself making a real difference, independent of her husband. I'm rooting for her.

[Evoman]

78. Dimebag Laura? She just wants to sell what the Afghani people are growing.

[earth mom]

81. Laura Bush has blood on her hands. She has done NOTHING to stop the evil her husband has wrought.

Now she wants to make herself look good by supporting women in another country instead of the people in her own country?! :wtf:

And we are supposed to cheer her on?! Give me a break! :puke:

[Skittles]

83. correct

she's an enbabler; she can fuck herself

[Canuckistanian]

82. She has some good ideas, but NOBODY to talk to about them

She must feel sooooo....... frustrated.