"The Handmaid's Tale" - Is it coming to Fruition??

[truedelphi]

In the sci-fi work of Margaret Atwood, our nation is taken over by RW extremist forces.

As everyone in the society does electronic banking, the portion of the populace that speaks out is at risk. And then it happens: one night, a code is entered into the system, and anyone on the government's "Watch List" has their funds reduced to zero.

But not to worry - radical feminists, outspoken Social Justice types, gays and the trans-gendered - all of these people are still employable. As long as they are slaves cleaning up nuclear power plant stations etc.

A woman who is young enough and attractive enough has one other option - she can be the surrogate mother to an infertile couple. And even be given the "privilege" of sex with the male partner. <sarcasm>

Why should I post this here and now? Clearly, Obama is not a RW fanatic. In fact, while deploring his Centrist picks for high positions, many of us see his skin color as proof that a major change has occurred inside the hearts of our citizenry. Someone who would have been unelectable twenty years ago will be inaugurated on January 20th.

So why am I posting this?

Because I remember all too well the high regard this nation had for Jimmy Carter in May of 1979, something on the order of 61%. And yet, by August, his huge popularity of May had dwindled to 11%.

Obama should have been addressing this nation on the deplorable situation that we are in, and how necessary his push for real change would be. As part of that real change, he would push for the placement of thsoe individuals who understand this situation better than any others. Instead, his appointments of Rubin and Geithner mark the fact that he is either:
1) unaware of how these two were participants in creating the financial tsunami threatening to swamp the Global Economy
2) he knows it, and has either deliberately picked them because he really isn't who we think he is, o9r he has been forced to pick them

By mid-October of 2008, financial tallies revealed that an economic tragedy was in the making.

Never before in the history of our nation had this happened:

As of OCt 23rd, new borrowed reserves and bank reserves equal nearly the same monetary base.

The Federal reserve now needs a reserve for the Reserve.

10/23 Bank reserves $ 328,597 million
Monetary Base $ 1,143,873 million
Non-borrowed Reserves (-362,550) million
TOTAL BORROWED AMOUNTS 611,147 million

As awful as these numbers are, several factors have combined since Oct 23rd to make this awful situation even worse. The BailOut's first funding, $ 350 Billion dollars obtaining by "loaning" the hard earned tax monies of the American people to the Wall Street interests who are responsible for this mess - these diverted funds were again diverted.

Hank Paulson has ignored the entire Section 109 of the BailOut Bill, which was the legal wording demanding that the money Paulson received would be used to protect Main Street. Instead rather than making these funds available for lines of credit, the money has gone to chosen banks, so that they can buoy "failing banks."

To make a long story short, what this means is that over the last few months, what with our government "lending" giving and stealing our Treasury, we the American people now owe about 8.8 Trillion dollars towards the fulfillment of this handover.

So I see an eerie similarity to what occurred in "The Handmaid's Tale."

Gone are our pension funds, our retirement plans, our Social Security (that here to fore) was backed by US Treasury Bonds. Gone Gone Gone. Additionally, due to Paulson not allowing for lines of credit to small business or to individual homeowners, we are rapidly becoming homeless and jobless, more so each minute of each succeeding day. So perhaps our "jobs" sweeping out the contamination of the Nuclear Power Plants will soon be offered to us, as well.

Obama will bear the brunt of this, even though he was not President when this occurred. But our main stream, Wall Street-controlled media will conveniently forget that fact when they start to "analyze" these horrors come the dawning of January 21st, 2009.

[Jack_DeLeon]

1. I wouldnt say its coming to fruition, but Its definately possible in the future...

There will always be people who will want to gain and abuse power, and barring some sort of cataclysm that will send civillization into the dark ages, technology will continue to advance, governments and corporations will gain more leverage over individuals.

[jetphixer]

2. I cling to my guns

This is why i believe in owning firearms I am older now 70 yrs. Ill most likely not see the whole thing blow but bush has really put us in a mess. At my age and have been to war i am not afraid of defending my self.. I am a firm believer every citizen of the usa should own a firearm be trained in its use and be military trained. That way we do not need a standing army as GW said in the very beginning. IKE warned against the military industrial complex an he was the designer of it to win WW2..

[cabluedem]

20. You guns wont' do you any good. This country is not made up of self-reliant people anymore...

if you use a gun, the police, who work for the wealthy and who don't need
guns, will simply imprison you or kill you, and that's all that will happen.

Sorry but its too little, too late.

This country is done for as a free nation, period.

[Quantess]

30. Gone so soon?

Oh well, I agree with you, that bush has really put us in a mess.

[earth mom]

3. I think we're closer than most people think.

I have little faith in any elected officials.

NOT AFTER:
8 years of hideous crimes against humanity
No impeachment of * & Co by Congress
Numerous assaults on the Constitution & thus the good people of this country
A Billion/Trillion Dollar Bailout that has gone straight into the pockets of Wall St. with ZERO accountability
Cabinet picks that bring no hope or change
Promotion and acceptance of Dominionists like Rick Warren

Yep, we're almost there. :yoiks:

[cali]

4. not even close to there.

the hysteric personalities here are something to behold. The crimes committed against humanity on the part of bushco have nothing to do with the scenario painted by Atwood. Neither does the lack of impeachment, or the bailout. The Cabinet picks are hardly those that reinforce a dominionist agenda- to put it mildly. And there are no more fundy preachers of prominence than there ever have been.

dog, I hate stupid.

[Jack_DeLeon]

5. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"

It might be more unlikely now than before the election, but one should always remain vigilant.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

8. no. I made it pretty clear I was talking about your inane post in this thread.

I hope that's perfectly clear now.

[truedelphi]

11. Okay in an effort to answer you:

Bush's crimes against the people of Afghanistand And Iraq are certainly not portrayed by Atwood.
But the book suggests thta the government in that world of Atwood's is pre-occupied witht he after effects of war. Much as we are now.

Examiningg the President Elect's invitation of the male-dominated Fundie church scene will help those RW church people assume that they have an entitled right to sit at the table, empowered and entitled. How will that help those of us who have been put off to the sidelines recapture our Jesus and Our flag, if they are offered Presidential encouragement on the notion that they are still in control. And someone has helped Obama feel that he needs to reach out to them before even reaching out to those that were part of his team.

Cali - have you spent any time looking into the resumes or bios of Geithner, Rubin or Larry Summers? Why is it hyserical of me to think that Obama has missed the boat when it comes to his top economic choices? For top economic positions, he could have appointed Kucinich, or Maxine Waters, or if he needs to be bi-partisan, he could have snagged Issa - who has Kucinich's fire and understanding of the economy.

Have you reflected on what it means when Obama says of Paulson, "Hank is working hard."
(Sort of a "Good job there, Brownie," moment.) Do you understand that when a person or organization keeps doing the same thing, and expects different results, that approach happens to be the definition of insanity. These things would be bad enough in and of themselves, but given the fact that Obama's message was "Change" I don't see it as hysterics on my part to raise some objections, but rather I see it as a reasonable response and assessment.

[cali]

15. actually, the book takes place in a post-apolyptic world that

has been very nearly destroyed. That's not like where we are now. And the fundy right will have way less influence under an Obama administration than they did under bushco. Yes Warren is a big fuckup, but for pity's sake, take a look at the cabinet. It may be centrist on foreign policy and economics, but it's decidedly standard liberal on social issues.

And yes, I'm passingly familiar with the resumes of the economic team. I frankly don't know much about economics, so I have to go with folks like Krugman, Reich and Stiglitz. They do not see things as you do. And suggesting Kucinich or Waters only demonstrates YOU know even less than I do about economics. \

In any case, Obama's economic team has little to do with your hysterical stuff about how close we are to the world depicted in a Handmaid's Tale. Consider only this: Obama has appointed many strong women to his administration. And to my knowledge he hasn't appointed a single fundy. Not one.

[truedelphi]

28. Cali, twenty eight states are without money.

The Federal government might conceivably have to close up shop by next December. A printing press can only churn out so many bills and then it's curtains.

Well at least the economy is going strong. Plus lucky for us, we all have great paying jobs and grow our own food and produce our own goods, and never worry about rent or housing payments.

NOT!

There is more than one way to experience an Apocalypse. Granted even if my above worse case scenario about the Government running out of money should come true, at least the air we breathe is not toally radioactive (Though the Depleted Uraniumt aht is wafting about our planet does accoutn for the myriad cancers that seem to be increasing everywhere you turn.)

Anyway I was using "The Handmaid's Tale' as a springboard, not attempting to say that reality would follow it word for word and page by page.

[anigbrowl]

6. um...I think your premise is flawed

[ihavenobias]

9. There is plenty of reason to not be optimstic

but I don't know if I can go that far...yet.

Still, I thank you for the interesting discussion!

[truedelphi]

12. You are welcome.

It's amazing how one dash of eggnog with rum can up one's optimism.

[gordianot]

10. I am not sure it will be the, "Handmaids Tale".

We are in for some major trouble and may look back on 2008 as "The good old Days". We have no choice but to wait for January 2009.

[Doctor_J]

13. Yes. "Gender Treachery" was a big no-no in that world too

People were killed and abused for abnormal sexual practice. It's amazing how much SCI-FI comes true after all

[cali]

16. really? The gov't is killing and abusing people for their sexual practices?

where is this happening.

[Malikshah]

17. It can be argued that from 1981 to 1988, yes.... Look up Reagan and AIDs

As for abuse? Denying civil rights, is that a sign of abuse or just an inconvenience to you.

It is called perspective. Look it up.

[cali]

22. lol. you're the one with a completely skewed

perspective. And sure denying civil rights is terrible. It's still not close to the premise of the OP. Not remotely.

[Malikshah]

23. Love the texty message. Helpful for discourse. I was responding to your question.

From the brief non-response, it appears you do not have an adequate rejoinder at hand.

That is fine. I can wait. Do try harder next time, though.

[truedelphi]

33. Thank you for the wise input.

Sometimes it is better to use the "ignore" function than to worry about people whose contrariness is not worth it.

[Doctor_J]

19. The government? Maybe not directly

But even you must admit that hate crime is rampant.

[cali]

21. I don't know the statistics on hate crimes. I do know that they're

crimes and prosecuted by the gov't. That's hardly the premise of Atwood's book.

[lonestarnot]

14. They better be careful. People are sick of their shit too.

[snot]

18. K&R'd

We've given control over so much to the wrong people.

[bertman]

24. It's interesting to me that people never see what's right in front of their faces until AFTER

the shit hits the fan. Then they say, "Why didn't we see that coming? All the signs were there. We just didn't think it was going to get THAT bad."

Thanks for the reminder, Truedelphi.

[cali]

25. It's interesting to me that there's a large group of people

call them dystopics if you wish, who constantly see the end of the world as imminent. It's been going on for, well, thousands of years. And though initially rooted in religion, there are now plenty of people who are essentially in the same vein, who don't base their dystopic/apocalyptic visions of an imminent future on religious tenets.

There's a difference between looking at the state of a society and seeing what could realistically come to pass in the near future, and simply cramming whatever, as the OP did, into an endtime narrative.

[bertman]

32. i didn't interpret it to be an endtime narrative so much as a cautionary tale about where

we could be heading. Trudelhi's concern wasn't for an apocalyptic world, but rather the dystopic one you allude to. Why is that such a stretch to imagine?

The people of Iraq are living in a dystopic nation right now. Their lives are miserable because of the destruction we have wreaked upon them and the civil war we allowed to tear their country and their lives apart.

We know from history that there were Germans, although a tiny minority, who could see that their nation was going to run itself into the abyss with its dreams of fulfilling Germany's destiny as the Master Race. I imagine that the residents of Dresden and Berlin felt that they were in a dystopic world, if not apocalyptic, as the fortunes of empire turned against them and the war came home to the Fatherland. Many German citizens expressed the view that they wished they had heeded their gut feelings when they saw what was going on around them and acted against the Nazis, rather than pretending that their future would be bright if they just went along. While it was not a religious movement but a nationalistic one that took them into their dystopia, it still happened to them. No different in Italy.

Given what we know about The Family and the infiltration of our military by religious zealots who are now in high-ranking command positions, is it so difficult to conceive of an America in which the religious right could take over our nation? Where I live many of our local law enforcement officers consider themselves to be staunch Christians--mostly fundamentalists. Our state's SBI-State Bureau of Investigation-is headed by what can only be described as religious zealots. Many of he agents are of the same persuasion.

Are we being paranoid when we envision that food riots, massive forced evictions, double-digit unemployment, rampant crime, and the greatest gap between the haves and have-nots since the great depression, might be a precursor to martial law and a coup by a military group that thinks it's annointed by God? Sarah Palin doesn't think there would be anything wrong with wrong-thinking not-real-Americans being ruled by those chosen by God to lead this Christian nation. And look at the following she garnered with her fascist rhetoric.

When desperation sets in among enough of the populace and the societal order begins to break down, it's only a very small step to tyranny and dystopia.

[tama]

34. It's no brainer

System based on unlimited growth cannot continue after the limits of growth have been met. There is good reason to believe that has allready happened - but even if the limits of growth were some decades away, the logical and right thing to do would still be changing the system - now.

[truedelphi]

35. FYI - banking as we know it has ended. Not my opinion but the

Statements of banking experts. What will banks be doing in the future?

Well they will not bet lending to you or me, more than likely. They are barely lending to each other these days.

But they will use much of the BailOut monies to put their money into smart utility investing. Cities and towns are strapped for cash, and will be happy (in many instances) to hand over the utilities they own for a price.

So what does that mean? Well ask the people of Bolivia. When Bechtel bought out their water districts, they found themselves owing ungodly amounts jsut for the right of drinking water and bathing water. Took blood shed in the streets to get their water rights back.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. Is all this Treasury depletion part of Grover Norquist's plan to make govt so small he can drown it

in a bathtub?

THAT is prez shit-for-brains' legacy.

[truedelphi]

27. All Norquist wanted to do was to get the governemnt to be so samll that

He could drown it in a bathtub.

This is even worse - it is making the government so small that all it can do is end all "entitlement" programs - except those that are handing our monies over to the upper .05% and then make us pay taxes on the loans that are part of the bargain!!

[JCMach1]

29. It's already here for some women...

:(

[acmavm]

31. I saw that thread the other day and I thought it was wonderful. And very

self-defining, self-explanatory. And I also tried to avoid posting about this because it reminds me of what is happening now. Like the plan is in the works. And Obama's naming of Warren to give the invocation made me even uneasier.

I got banned from posting for a few months because I pointed out Obama is NOT a liberal, he is not the squeaky clean love, peace, joy, liberty, fraternity, let-it-all-hang-out kinda guy that people here think he is. His career is full of examples of opportunistic behavior and sneaky deals. That's because he belongs to a group who have always, and probably will always, operate that way.He's a politician. So I don't see him in the same way a lot of DUers do. But I walked for miles and miles and miles for the man. And talked to a lot of people on the telephone, some not at all nice to talk to. Because it was him or Insane McCain and his girl sidekick crazy Sarah. (I was and Edward's fan until he turned out to be such a foolish slut.)

The other think is Obama seems to gravitate towards those kinds of preachers. I'm all for fire and brimstone, don't get me wrong. But to fight against injustice and unfairness and crime and other wrongs. Not against freedom to marry, or freedom from being discriminated against because of which flavor genitals I have. Or the color of my skin. Or how much money I have. But Obama has a proclivity for finding people like this, going to their churches, giving them a pulpit. If Wright hadn't gotten so damn carried away once he got in the spotlight, there would never have been any controversy. But he kept flapping his gums and people got an idea of the kind of man he is.

What worries me about the whole Warren thing is that it seems to give legitimacy to people who think like he does. In the world of the here and now, he is a cleaned up, polished, sanitized version of Fred Phelps. And Fred, why his very goal is to bring about the exact same kind of society as in The Handmaid's Tale. (I use Fred because he's the most rabid example of that type of crazed fundie that I can think of. Although there is always Robertson, Hagee, and the rest.) And his congregation, in its own way, is just like Fred's, only they don't admit it to themselves. They're just as bad, just passively so. And now this guy and his crazy followers (note that I say his followers, not ALL BELIEVERS) will be able to point to the inaugration and use it as proof that they support the President, America, and all that it stands for. BUT THAT IS JUST THE PROBLEM! They are the antithesis of everything that our Founding Fathers wanted for their new country and its people.

Back to The Handmaid's Tale. I kinda think that we approaching the final fork in the road to where we either have a (relatively) free and democratic (sort of) society, or do we end up with Atwood's picture of life under a fundamentalist society? I wish Obama hadn't done this because I think he nudges us a little more in that direction every day. His picks for his cabinet (so many corporatists, so many conservatives), his pick of Warren to even open his mouth at the Inauguration.

P.S. I'm still stewing about the inability of the Equal Rights Amendment to pass and have been for almost 40 years. And did you know Nebraska killed off Affirmative Action? Yes sir, we had to kill it because it was discrimanating against that ever picked and put upon group of victims, white men. I live in Nebraska where fundies and fruitcakes reign. But we did get Obama a historic electoral vote. And look how we celebrate. Damn.